Total posts: 8,696
how about better strategies to improve our children's education and less exploitation of children for entirely political ends?
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Even the Canadian people understand unjustified emergency acts are not legal and Trudeau needs to be held accountable.
False. 66% of Canadian believe emergency justified. 54% believe that Trudeau should have done more sooner and let the fascists get out of control.
Imagine the trauma felt by the trucker's children seeing their parents treated this way.
Exactly. Why are fascists always such shits at parenting? Let's be sure to note that the parents were the only ones who had a choice about whether to expose their children to the most violent protests in Ottawa since 1849. I assume parents willing to bully soup kitchens and paramedics in front of their own children aren't surprising those children with their capacity for abuse.
this is why people need guns to protect themselves
Well, that was the moment right there. If you really believed that your freedom had been taken away and that it is right and proper to use your guns against governments to preserve those freedoms then last Friday was the day to die for your cause. I think all fascists are pussies ultimately only expressing their disappointment in their station in life and their violent demands to be elevated beyond their talents or intestinal fortitude. The most corrupt coalescing into increasingly larger bands of bullies like Congolese children's armies until they achieve sufficient firepower to reverse the tide of democracy. That's what the guns are really needed for- to demand a bigger slice of the American pie than is warranted by their value to the economy.
Many other countries condemning Prime Minister Black face over this
Russia, China, North Korea, Trump. Yes we already knew that all the evil dictators were rooting for the fascists and even paying them to protest.
Trudeau: Peaceful trucker protest: Invokes Emergency Act....
FACT CHECK: Most violent protests in Ottawa since 1849
Also Trudeau: Violent BLM riots: Takes a knee with them.
FACT CHECK: The were no BLM riots in Canada. There were only peaceful George Floyd protests. Greyparrot assumes that because some of the protestors were black people there must have been violent riots without ever bothering to educate himself about the history of those protests. BLM was not particularly prominent in the organizing of George Floyd protests in Canada but GP uses the term here as an adjective to suggest blackness even when most of Canada's George Floyd protests were majority white demographically. This is the level of pre-judgement we see on display even as he claims to be a worthy and responsible gun owner. If the difference between a protester and rioter in a gunowner's mind is not based on the degree of violence demonstrated but on the skin color of the participants, then would you trust that gunowner to know the difference between a protest and riot? between an authentic threat and authentic freedom of speech?
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that vid was removed as fake
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Got it.
when fascists attack women's shelters =/= misogyny
when fascists attack women who are actually serving them food for wearing a mask at a soup kitchen =/= misogyny
when fascists pelt women EMTs with rocks =/= misogyny
when fascists breaking laws and attacking cops fake injury and cry = misogyny
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@RationalMadman
Women are risky because they may have a soul and reveal that it is a hoax. Male sociopaths tend to make more long-term reliable liars.
...seemingly unaware that of 596 astronauts, 72 have been women. That's a whole lot of scientists lying for no good reason that I can think of.
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-->@ILikePie5Canadian Police shot a woman in the leg with a R1 40 mm gun. Legalized misogyny.A cop hit her three times with a club and then shot a tear gas canister at her leg from point-blank range.Trudeau has instructed his police to attack journalists.
- Of course, you can't claim to be a journalist while recording yourself in a scrum actively trying to rip weapons out of the hands of police (1:39)
- Journalists are required to be objective in their reporting
- Obviously, committing crimes on behalf of the protestors wipes out any claim to objectivity or journalistic immunity- you are just another youtubing lawbreaker at that point
- Let's note that none of Lavoie's claims are actually backed up by video. There were hundreds of cameras recording the event and yet none of them seem to capture the attack as described by Lavoie. Again, this refutes "journalist" as a journalist would have got that shot.
- In spite of Ted Cruz's false claims of protesters "trampled to death," I find no report that a single protestor was hospitalized.
- Let's note that the co-founder of Rebel News and most of its original reporters, the Conservative Party of Canada, the UPC, and the Canadian Assoc. of Journalists all denounce Rebel News as a pro-Fascist propaganda outlet.
- Proud Boys founder Gavin McInnes has served two terms as a regular contributor
- Let's also note that crying abuse is a commonplace tactic for Rebel News. They always promise to file a complaint and sue but never do.
- https://www.rebelnews.com/raw_rebel_reporter_attacked_by_trudeaus_bodyguards
- A journalist would know better than to approach the PM's party with a device in hand
- https://www.rebelnews.com/rebel_news_reporters_attacked_while_police_stand_by_ezra_levant_says_enough
- https://www.rebelnews.com/take_back_toronto_rebel_news_reporter_attacked_in_public_park_encampment_mayor_ignores_city_s_decline
- https://www.rebelnews.com/full_video_reporter_avi_yemini_attacked_by_antifa
- https://www.rebelnews.com/global_news_keean_camera_alleged_attack
- https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/alleged-assault-on-rebel-tv-reporter-at-womens-march-in-edmonton-draws-police-investigation
- https://globalnews.ca/news/3198597/rebel-staff-member-alleges-she-was-assaulted-at-womens-march-in-edmonton/
- https://www.rebelnews.com/were_suing_the_montreal_police_for_assaulting_another_rebel_news_reporter
- If members of your tiny fascist website are more or less constantly complaining about getting attacked by police, bodyguards, homeless people, fellow conservative politicians, real journalists, women's marchers, dogs etc., etc., etc. then
- Let's assume that it is all just " boys crying wolf" until they actually capture something real on camera and actually file one of those thousands of lawsuits they are constantly threatening
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@3RU7AL
-->@oromagiwait, are you serious ?
not always, no. Why do you ask?
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@3RU7AL
-->@oromagiyou caught mei'm a russian agent
fuckin' Russians.
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Dear Mr. Zuckerberg:
I am concerned by reports that stolen and fake accounts on Facebook are behind largescale organizing and fundraising efforts related to a blockade in Canada that has impacted vital
U.S.-Canada border crossings and cross-border trade. These reports are particularly alarming
given Facebook’s history of amplifying toxic content, extremism, and disinformation, including
from Russia and other foreign actors. Although organizations representing American truckers
have condemned the blockade, similar convoys are reportedly being promoted by fake Facebook
accounts to occur in the United States.
According to recent reporting, a Missouri woman’s Facebook account was hacked and
stolen as far back as October 2021, and hackers then used the account to create of some of the
largest Facebook groups organizing the blockade in Ottawa, Canada. Between January 26 and
January 28, 2022, the account launched several Facebook groups that grew to include more than 340,000 combined members and has attracted online support from far-right groups. These
Facebook groups were used to raise millions of dollars in funds.
While it is not clear who is behind the reported hack of the Missouri woman’s account,
Facebook has confirmed that fake accounts run out of overseas content mills in countries such as
Bangladesh, Vietnam, and Romania have been behind content promoting the “Freedom
Convoy.” One Bangladeshi firm was responsible for attracting more than 170,000 members to
some of the largest “Freedom Convoy” organizing groups on Facebook.
Utilizing fake, stolen, or inauthentic accounts has become a common technique by those
promoting disinformation campaigns and social engineering efforts, particularly foreign entities.
Russia operated Facebook accounts and pages to interfere with the 2016 U.S. presidential
election, including using stolen identities of Americans. These Russian-operated accounts and
pages had their content shared hundreds of millions of times leading up to the election. Since
2016, Facebook has claimed to use a strategy called “remove, reduce, and inform” to manage
content that violates its community standards or raises other issues.
In response to recent concerns, Meta, Facebook’s parent company, has stated that it has
removed dozens of Facebook groups and pages related to the “Freedom Convoy” that were run
by spammers “who used abusive tactics to mislead people about the origin and popularity of
their content to drive them to off-platform websites.” However, it is unclear whether whether other inauthentic behavior is continuing despite Meta’s broader efforts.
To assist the Committee in its review of this matter, please respond to the following
questions by February 28, 2022:
- 1. How many inauthentic accounts have been identified by Facebook related to the
“Freedom Convoy” or connected efforts?
- a. When and how were these accounts identified as inauthentic?
- b. Were any of these accounts part of coordinated networks or campaigns? If
so, please describe.
-
c. From which countries has Facebook identified “Freedom Convoy” content
originating or amplifying?
- d. What is the reach or influence of these accounts, including how many
impressions the content originating from these accounts received
- Please
provide any interim or final analyses of the reach or impact of these
accounts.
- e. Where did these accounts drive traffic to?
- f. What links were posted from these accounts?
- g. How many advertisements were shown alongside content from these
accounts, and how much revenue did Facebook earn from these
advertisements?
- h. Were advertisements purchased for “Freedom Convoy” or related terms?
If so, has Facebook identified any of these purchases that originated from
outside North America?
- 2. How many reports of compromised or hacked accounts did Facebook receive in
Q4 2021? How many reports have been received in Q1 2022?
- a. How many of these reports were escalated above an automated response?
- b. What was the average time of response to users?
- c. What is the average time of resolution for each reported case?
- d. In the case of the Missouri woman’s hacked account, when did Facebook
become aware of her account being compromised, and what action was
taken in response?
The Committee on Oversight and Reform is the principal oversight committee of the
House of Representatives and has broad authority to investigate “any matter” at “any time” under
House Rule X.
An attachment to this letter provides additional instructions for responding to this request.
If you have any questions, please contact Committee staff at (202) 225-5051.
Sincerely,
Carolyn B. Maloney
Chairwoman
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FROM: The HACKED ACCOUNT and SUSPICIOUS DONATIONS BEHIND the CANADIAN TRUCKER PROTESTS
The jumble of misinformation, online fundraising groups and amplification from right-wing political figures suggests there’s more to these protests than meets the eye.
The jumble of misinformation, online fundraising groups and amplification from right-wing political figures suggests there’s more to these protests than meets the eye.
....But a close look at several “Freedom Convoy” groups and crowdfunding efforts online shows the involvement of anonymous actors, deep-pocketed non-Canadian donors and prominent U.S. right-wing political figures.
Some of the largest Facebook groups responsible for galvanizing support, both ideological and financial, appeared to have been administered through a stolen account, Grid has found.
The protests are not organized by Canadian trucking unions, the largest of which has come out against the protests. They also do not appear to reflect the values of most Canadians or most Canadian truckers: More than 80 percent of the Canadian public is vaccinated, including almost 90 percent of truckers, according to Canada’s minister of transport.
The speed at which the movement has raised millions of dollars raises red flags. A now-shuttered GoFundMe page raised nearly $8 million USD; a replacement crowdfunding campaign, on a self-described Christian platform called GiveSendGo, had raised more than $6 million by Tuesday morning, after just three days, with many donations of four and five figures.
The movement smacks of U.S. influence, said Gordon Pennycook, a behavioral scientist at the University of Regina who studies disinformation. “For sure, 100 percent, a large part of this is driven by cultural narratives that have emerged from the United States,” he said.
That doesn’t mean that many of the protesters on the ground aren’t true believers — whether about vaccine mandates, broader right-wing causes or even more extreme ideologies, including white nationalism.
“They’re driven by a very deep connection to a cause that they feel to be just,” Pennycook said. “They’re acting in accordance with their attitudes and values, and it just so happens to be the case that a lot of the beliefs that they hold probably aren’t rooted in good evidence. There’s a lot of conspiratorial thinking and distrust of good sources and reliable sources.”
A hacked Facebook account is behind some of the organizing
The entity behind some of the largest Facebook groups supporting the protests is an unknown person or persons who used the Facebook account of a Missouri woman. She says her account on the platform was hacked and stolen.
The account launched a handful of Facebook groups for the protest, all between Jan. 26 and 28, before the trucker convoy reached Ottawa. With a combined following of more than 340,000 members and more than 7,500 posts, the group names were variations on a theme: “Convoy to Ottawa 2022,” “Convoy for Freedom 2022,” “Freedom Convoy/Ottawa 2022 for Canada,” “Freedom Convoy 2022” and “2022 Official Freedom Convoy to Ottawa.”
Facebook groups are organized by administrators. Grid found that the only administrator account for these groups belonged to the Missouri woman. Reached briefly by phone on Monday, she said her account was hacked and she was not involved with the groups.
“Someone stole my identity on Facebook,” she said. “I don’t know how they [did] it.”
The woman, whom Grid is not naming because she is the victim of apparent identity theft, said her daughter set up a new account for her. A new Facebook account with the woman’s name appeared in October 2021 with the post: “New account. Last one got hacked.”
The groups were disabled Monday afternoon as Grid was reporting this story. Facebook did not immediately respond to questions about the hacked account. “We continue to see scammers latch onto any hot-button issue that draws people’s attention, including the ongoing protests,” Margarita Franklin, a spokeswoman for Facebook’s parent company, Meta, said in a statement to media outlets on Monday.
Even as Facebook groups have been taken down, the conversation is alive on Telegram, a United Arab Emirates-based social media platform that claims 500 million users worldwide. Channels cheering on the protests display thousands of subscribed followers, although it is possible to artificially inflate Telegram subscriber numbers. Inside these channels, users share photos and videos and trade misinformation about covid-19 and about the strength of their movement, such as the debunked claim that Canadian armed forces have pledged “allegiance to the people.”
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As U.S. 'TRUCKER CONVOY' PICKS up MOMENTUM, FOREIGN MEDDLING ADDS to FRAY
Facebook said Friday it removed trucker and convoy groups run by overseas actors. Many anti-vaccine and conspiracy-driven groups have moved to embrace convoy organizing.
NBC News- Ben Collins
Researchers at Harvard University’s Shorenstein Center on Media, Politics and Public Policy first noted that large pro-Trump groups had been changing their names to go with convoy-related themes earlier this week. Grid News reported on Friday that one major trucker convoy Facebook group was being run by a Bangladesh content farm.
Many of the groups have changed names multiple times, going from those that tap hot-button political issues such as support for former President Donald Trump or opposition to vaccine mandates, to names with keywords like “trucker,” “freedom” and “convoy.” Facebook allows groups on its platforms to change names but tracks the changes in each page’s “about” section.
The motivations of the people behind the content mills are not clear, but Joan Donovan, director of the Shorenstein Center, said the pattern fits existing efforts to make money off U.S. political divisions.
“In some ways, it’s normal political activity,” Donovan said. “In other ways, we have to look at how some of the engagement online is fake but can be a way to mobilize more people.”
“When we see really effective disinformation campaigns, it’s when the financial and political motives align,” she added.
The groups frequently directed users away from Facebook toward websites that sold pro-Trump and anti-vaccine merchandise, a spokesperson for Meta, the parent company of Facebook, said. The spokesperson noted that the majority of the content posted in these groups came from real accounts and that the company has removed the groups tied to foreign content mills.
“Voicing opposition to government mandates is not against Meta’s policies,” the spokesperson said in a statement. “However, we have removed multiple groups and Pages for repeatedly violating our policies prohibiting QAnon content and those run by spammers in different countries around the world. We continue to monitor the situation and take action.”
The details of foreign interference come as anti-vaccine protesters, pro-Trump groups and QAnon supporters have shifted their full attention to making trucker convoys a reality on American roads. Anti-vaccine protesters, some of whom are truckers, have clogged roads in Ottawa for more than a week, demanding the Canadian government remove mask and vaccine mandates.
Major websites and social media accounts behind the anti-vaccine mandate protest that marched on Washington last month are rebranding as “trucker convoys,” part of a widespread effort to bring versions of Ottawa’s anti-vaccine road closures to American cities.
The official website for the “Defeat the Mandates” event has changed its homepage and is now advertising a trucker convoy in Southern California in March.
“There’s a misconception that every participant in these chats is a trucker, but that’s not true at all. It’s really anybody who’s been a part of these movements who’ve been waiting for an excuse to do something — QAnon, anti-vaccine, sovereign citizens,” said extremism researcher Sara Aniano, who recently published a report on QAnon’s growth after Jan. 6 for the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation, a London-based nonprofit group. ”This feels like the culmination of everything that’s happened since Jan. 6th.”
Social media-based foreign interference in domestic politics first came into public view in the aftermath of the 2016 election after researchers found that Russia’s Internet Research Agency was conducting an elaborate influence campaign across American social media sites in an effort to support candidate Donald Trump. Since then, foreign social media interference has been tempered by efforts by major social media platforms to crack down, though various influence operations are still frequently identified.
Donovan, of Harvard University’s Shorenstein Center, said Vietnamese spammers specifically sell what they call “Nick” accounts at scale, which are credible-seeming Facebook accounts that moderate high-profile groups.
Once purchased, the accounts and the groups they run can be used for any purpose, from selling T-shirts to executing a foreign influence campaign.
Some content mills even offer to help if Facebook takes action against a certain page or group.
“The fake account trade is alive and well,” Donovan said. “Really, they act as something like customer service. Whether it’s a person or an organization, if you bought an account from a person, and they do get taken away, you can contact him and he will reimburse you with more accounts. It has some dark marketing aspects to it.”
The point of renaming larger groups is not only to retain and spam the already-existing community but to also appear higher in Facebook’s search and recommendations bar, which helps lend credibility to those curious about the movement.
Facebook said it would “continue to monitor the situation” for more inauthentic activity.
“We continue to see scammers latch onto any hot-button issue that draws people’s attention, including the ongoing protests,” the Meta spokesperson said. “Over the past week, we’ve removed groups and Pages run by spammers from different countries around the world who used abusive tactics to mislead people about the origin and popularity of their content to drive them to off-platform websites to monetize ad clicks.”
Aniano, who said she recently spent several days listening in on audio chats in convoy-related Telegram groups, said the communities largely consist of a mishmash of anti-vaccine groups and QAnon supporters.
Aniano said the groups, which have tens of thousands of subscribers, flow between logistical discussions about essentials to bring on a long-haul car trip and getting followers up to date on QAnon-based conspiracy theories.
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@zedvictor4
-->@oromagiYep.Who's paying these fascist truckers to sit around honking all day.
Seemingly, gone are the days when truckers needed to truck for a living.
As I've said characterizing the protestors as truckers would be highly inaccurate. I mean, I'm sure there were some actual truckers in the group but the facts strongly suggest that they were at most a minor element.
- No professional truckers in leadership
- At peak, 400 trucks were estimated as participating in a crowd of 4,000 protestors.
- So if every truck represented one trucker- 10% representation
- Ottawa police report they were issuing many, many tickets to people driving trucks without a class A license.
- Let's agree that if you don't have a Class A license, you are not a trucker
- There are multiple reports of truck theft or employees taking a company's truck without authorization.
- Strong evidence that not even all the people driving trucks were professional truckers
- February was a busy month for actual professional truckers who were obligated to drive long extra distances and wait in long lines because of bridges and on-ramps and off-ramps closed down by protestors.
- It may be fairly said the Canadian Truckers as a profession despise and denounce the fascists pretending to represent them
And what are they fighting for?
$9 million in bitcoin.
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@RationalMadman
Everybody voting aye basically never debates and everybody voting no is an active debater with Oromagi being the only exception so far.
It's a valid point but have you considered that never debaters might become more active if the debate queue got more interesting?
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Advantages of Hydrogen
- You can refuel quickly- like a gas tank
Advantages of Electric
- Much cheaper- a full tank of hydrogen costs 8 times a fully charged electric vehicle
- Electric is production ready now. America could switch to all electric in tens years with the right leadership. Hydrogen is nowhere close to ready
- Current hydrogen production is heavily dependent on fossil fuels. That's also true of electric but electric has green alternative sources that hydrogen lacks.
- green sources have the potential of reducing waste heat
The big question is battery tech. Right now, battery tech has hit certain weight/storage/disposal limits that seem difficult to overcome. For example, a hydrogen fueled plane or train that's big and fast is far more likely in the near future than an electric plane.
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@Mharman
-->@oromagiUnacceptable views is what he said.They mean the same thing here.\
A belief is an assertion of truth whereas a view is simply any opinion. Given that the Freedom Convoy's primary assertion (that they represent Canadian Truckers) is so easily and soundly disproved that Trudeau can't call the Convoy disinformation campaign "belief" without giving their propaganda more than its worth.
Did I say majority? No. I said people. That can mean any number of them, but it's clear that despite being in the minority opinion, they make up a sizeable chunk still. 20-30% isn't to be looked over.
You said that Trudeau made a policy that people didn't like. But you concede that Trudeau's policy represents the strongly expressed majority will of Canadians. Your problem is not with Trudeau, your problem is with democracy. Only 12 people were willing to get arrested for the cause at the Ambassador Bridge. Less than a hundred total in Ottawa. Its easy to get people to say they're sick of COVID restrictions but when the rubber hits the road we are talking about a very small group of outsiders who demonstrate no interest in the common weal.
None of your surveys mention how many Canadian truckers disapprove of these protests,
The ALCU and co. can cry foul all they want. Music to my ears. A barricade is not a physical attack; it's just dumb to equate it to violence.
The Russians used to same argument when they barricaded Western Berlin in '48. Taking out one fourth of all Canadian-US trade is causing devastating economic harm to Canadians and Americans rights now- those people harmed far outnumbering the handful of loonies barricading the bridges.
Also, I can specify that at the very least the claims of arson are exaggerated. Two men (of unknown affiliation up to this point, I might add) were shown attempting arson in one building, and somehow according to you they have "set fire to large residential buildings".
The details you omit are telling:
- The mostly minority residents of this 100 unit building confronted the Trucker's Convoy in front of their building at 4AM, complaining about the constant honking of car horns in the middle of the night
- Less than an hour later, your two persons of "unknown affiliation" strewed boxes of fire accelerants throughout the lobby, lit them up and sealed the exits
- That's fucking malicious terrorism right there. That's not just "claims of arson" that's attempted mass murder.
- The fact that the arsonists were incompetent is irrelevant to intent.
I'm not sure where you are getting "property damage" from, which is also why I still say these protests are peaceful despite some idiots not being peaceful.
Ottawa Police: By last Saturday, there are over 140 criminal investigations so far related to the demonstration- primarily for mischief, thefts, hate crimes and property damage.
Multiple stolen vehicles have been recovered from protestors
at least two ambulances were damaged by protestors throwing rocks at one black EMT while calling out racial slurs
at least one police cruiser was smashed by a protestor attempting to evade a police blockade
"hollering to get attention" and the whole "mentally ill people" part doesn't help any thought provoking discussion either.
Disagree. I think mental illness and the cynical is objectively at the very heart and soul of most anti-VAX activism.
Abortion takes a human life...
So does COVID. Just because you suppose that your odds of death are low doesn't give you the right to profoundly increase the risk of death to others. It is not about your private life. You can stay at home with your fears and FOX News forever and never run afoul of a government mandate. It is about your public life and the risks you introduce into he lives of strangers that governments are duty bound to regulate.
The government may do as they please when it is the military, which they own. Not to mention most soldiers (and people in general) are going to have smallpox and measles vaccines because those diseases are significantly more dangerous than the coronavirus.
Smallpox and measles are less dangerous now than Coronavirus because democracies and science worked hand in hand to vaccinate the world against those diseases. COVID is more dangerous at present because it is being given an opportunity to mutate into more transmissible forms. The Delta variant was deadlier than the omicron variant but omicron killed far more people because it was more transmissible. Combine super-transmissibility with some very deadly variant (like SARS1 or MERS were) and we could be quickly facing at a mass extinction event.
LMAO at the the idea of my opinions on COVID being "PuTIN'S mISiNfORMaTioN MeaNT tO deSTRoY tHe US!" instead of a legitimate argument that should be discussed without being overconfidently written off. This is just a deflection.
Well, that's just ignorant of the facts. Long before COVID, Russian bots and trolls were a primary source of anti-vax disinformation in America.
In earlier posts, we identified leadership as coming from a variety of different fringe groups
- 5G conspiracy movement
- Wexit
- Russian intelligence was also the primary mover and money behind recent "Texit" and "Calexit" movements.
- QAnon
- Let's recall that Pizzagate was started by Gen. Flynn's son just months before Flynn accepted the top intelligence job in the US and then admitted to being a secret Russian agent
- The main QAnon server 8kun is hosted by DDos-Guard in St. Petersburg on the same racks that host .ru, the Russian Defense Ministry, the Russian Central Bank, Stormfront, Parler, etc.
- Soldiers of Odin
There are no Canadian truckers leading the "Freedom" Convoy and the only thing the leaders of that movement seem to have in common with one another is that their movements all receive significant funding from the Russian Govt. I note that 34 cryptocurrency accounts owned by the Convoy's leadership have been frozen- I wonder if we'll learn the extent of foreign influence there.
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Make Love
this war isn’t war — it’s a chance not to kill anyone
this love isn’t love unto death — it’s as long as it lasts
to protect one another is all this occasion demands
and to look at the world through a steady rifle sight
and to look within ourselves through every microscope
and to look at you at every hour every minute at all times
to protect one another — and in keeping calm and carrying on
to burn down to the ground and to rise up as smoke
this war isn’t war — but a certain and fiery passion
this love is forever — just as moments pass forever
we hit bottom to get stuck in some new heaven
there is a string that binds us all together
that string between us is a safety fuse
YURII IZDRYK
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people carry explosives around the city
in plastic shopping bags and little suitcases
they trample the cobblestone we learn their secrets
only the day after and even then it’s just checking the facts
how many windows shattered how many collapsed balconies
did anyone die or is everyone alive and kicking
only frightened that there is no more peaceful life perhaps
war happens and the laws of war are a cruel thing
or perhaps there are no more laws and explosions are now the norm
we don’t get up from the table just shiver and shed some hope
an enemy chooses weapons as a thief finds the pick for a door
when in fact the door is already open
MARIANNA KIYANOVSKA
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Buried in a human neck, a bullet looks like an eye, sewn in,
an eye looking back at one’s fate.
Who shot him there? Who gave the order, which man?
Who will bury him, and what’s the rate?
When it comes to humanity, war is the beginning and end.
Whoever attacks you, don’t turn your back.
Says the Lord: For my people are foolish, they have not known me,
they are silly children and they have no understanding.
But the children feel as strong as their machinery,
mass-produced, with plenty of seamstresses for repairing:
some ladies patch holes, others fix neck bones,
still more sew on buttons that were torn away from hands.
And the Lord says: They are wise in doing evil — but,
says the Lord — they do not know how to do good.
But the children, if they survive, say it was luck,
and if they die, they think that was yesterday,
today is another day,
and the seamstresses stand with a shroud, telling them, “Put this on.”
How long must we put up with the flags, the trumpets calling us into the fray?
What beast has awakened? Where did our special forces land?
Who shot that man in the back? Who gave the command?
Who will bury him, and what’s the rate?
LYUDMYLA KHERSONSKA
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A country in the shape of a puddle, on the map.
Any country is an easy target in March,
in June, July, August, September, October,
as long as it rains
and maps litter the street.
Stop, who goes there, General Oaken Knees.
The Red Square of his naked chest shines the way.
And behind him, a half-shadow, half-man,
half-orphan, half-exile, whose mouth is as coarse
as his land —
double-land where every cave is at war.
Do you say there won’t be a war? I say nothing.
A small gray person cancels
this twenty-first century,
adjusts his country’s clocks
for the winter war.
LYUDMYLA KHERSONSKA
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@Mharman
Trudeau says these people have unacceptable beliefs.
Unacceptable views is what he said.
This is why he shut down the protests.
False. He shut down the protest because their crime and violence is costing Canadian truckers ten of millions of dollars each day in lost revenu.
He made a policy people didn’t like, and they took to protesting it, as is their right.
That's false. An strong majority has supported Trudeau's vaccine mandates for truckers since October. Canadian truckers hate these fascists pretending to be offended on their behalf.
A look at four Canadian polls
Angus Reid Institute poll: More than two-thirds strongly oppose the protesters’ approach and behavior
In the Angus Reid Institute survey, conducted from February 11 to 13, 69% of respondents said they opposed the protesters themselves – their approach and behavior – versus just 27% who said they were supportive of the protesters.
Sixty-four percent of respondents said they opposed the protesters’ demand to end all pandemic restrictions, versus 33% who said they were supportive.
In addition, 72% said the protesters have made their point and should “go home now,” while 22% said the protesters should “stay in Ottawa and other protest sites until their demands are met.” And while 24% of respondents said the protests have made them less supportive vaccine requirements for international travel and crossing the US border – the protests were sparked in part by a new vaccine requirement for truckers who cross from the US – 44% said the protests had actually made them more supportive of these vaccination requirements, while 32% the protests had no real effect.
The survey was conducted online “among a representative randomized sample of 1,622 Canadian adults who are members of Angus Reid Forum.”
Leger poll: Nearly two-thirds think the protesters are a selfish minority
In a Leger survey conducted from February 4 to 6 in collaboration with The Canadian Press news agency, 62% of respondents said they opposed the protests’ message of no vaccine mandates and fewer public health measures versus 32% who supported that message.
Sixty-five percent of respondents agreed with the following statement: “The convoy is a small minority of Canadians who are selfishly thinking only about themselves and not the thousands of Canadians who are suffering through delayed surgeries and postponed treatments because of the ongoing pandemic.”
The online survey of 1,546 Canadian adults used a representative sample “selected from LEO’s (Leger Opinion) representative panel.”
Ipsos poll: Strong majority disagrees with the goals of the protests
In a survey conducted by Ipsos from February 8 to 9 on behalf of Global News, 59% of respondents agreed with this statement: “The truck protest is mostly a group of anti-vaxxers and bigots intent on causing mayhem and they should not be allowed to protest.” Forty-one percent disagreed.
When respondents were asked if they agreed that “while I might not say it publicly, I agree with a lot of what the truck protestors are fighting for,” 63% disagreed and 37% agreed.
The poll did find that 46% of respondents agreed that while they may not agree with everything the protesters in the capital of Ottawa have said, “their frustration is legitimate and worthy of our sympathy.” Still, even on this question, 54% said that what these protesters have said and done “is wrong and does not deserve any of our sympathy.”
The online survey was conducted among a sample of 1,000 Canadian adults. The poll used quotas and weighting to ensure that the sample reflected the Canadian population.
Maru Public Opinion poll: Nearly two-thirds favor military support role in ending the protests
In the survey conducted by Maru Public Opinion from February 9 to 10, 56% of respondents said they don’t agree with the protesting truckers in “any way, shape or form” and that everything possible should be done to end the protests. Just 20% of respondents said they “fully” support the protesting truckers, while another 24% said they support the reasons for the protest but “not the way they are going about it.”
Sixty-four percent agreed with the statement that “Canada’s democracy is being threatened by a group of protesters and they must be stopped immediately.” Sixty-four percent also supported using the Canadian military in a support role to tow protesters’ trucks. And as Ungar-Sargon acknowledged in a subsequent tweet on Monday, in which she conceded at least that there isn’t “blanket support” for the protests, 58% said drivers who refuse to follow law enforcement directives to move should “face fines and potential jail terms of up to two years.”
The online survey was conducted among a random selection of 1,523 Canadian adults who are “Maru Voice Canada panelists” and weighted by education, age, gender, and region to match the Canadian population.
Aside from one-off incidents, these protests have been peaceful.
Baloney. As even Amnesty International and the American Civil Liberties Union state plainly, holding the economy hostage with barricades is an act of violence, not free speech. These fascists have attacked Christian charities, set fire to large residential buildings, threatened and intimidated Muslims, Asians, first peoples, etc. I consider the blaring of truck horns fair game but violence and intimidation, even threats of violence are off the board and that represents the majority of what these NAZIs are spouting. Very little of what Freedom Convoy has perpetrated is fairly called free speech or peaceful.
Unlike the BLM protests (which Trudeau endorsed), businesses aren’t being boarded up here either.
Unlike Freedom Convoy, BLM's George Floyd protests in Canada were entirely peaceful. Every act of violence done during Canadian George Floyd protests was perpetrated by right wing. Wikipedia reports of George Floyd protests, "Some businesses and banks downtown {Ottowa} boarded up windows in advance of the march, although there were no reports of damage" Here is a picture of businesses boarding up in Ottawa after the truckers rolled in:
By contrast with the Floyd protests, Ottawa residents have already filed suit against the Freedom Convoy documenting $4.8m in property damage.
The fact that people are being arrested over a peaceful demonstration,
Least peaceful demonstrations in Ottawa since Stony Monday.
combined with the infamous quote from Trudeau where he will not even consider their beliefs, tells me that he is a tyrant attempting to control his people.
Beliefs seems like a lofty word for Christian 5G conspiracy theories, QAnon, and the Nordic Resistance movement. Trudeau called them fringe views, which seems fair considering that what they really are lies that mentally ill people holler to get attention.
No government should mandate an individual’s ability to impact their own health.
so abortion, drugs, suicide, smallpox, polio- totally unregulated by the govt. Let
Period. I don’t care what it is,
So let's say every other army in the world immunizes its forces against measles, smallpox, polio, COVID, etc while the US Army follows your extremism and does not enforce or regulate immunization. Countless battles tell us that as soon as our forces start encountering a large immunized force, our army is going to be swept by a disarming disabling wave of illness. I understand why Putin wants this and so he pumps tens of millions into COVID disinformation. I don't know why we would want this outcome.
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The same guy calling these protesters "Nazis" is the first to invoke martial law and strip people of their civil rights.
Sorry but when you spray-paint swastikas over the maple-leaf you are self-identifying as a neo-NAZI. Freedom Convoy has been flying NAZI and Confederate flags since mid January and I don't see any membership complaining about that public identification. Therefore, Freedom Convoy identifies as a neo-NAZI (affiliated, at least) group and outsiders are just believing their self-identification.
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take that debate I lost against Fruit_Inpector- I thought I had another day to write my argument but instead I had 20 minutes. All I could do was cut & paste arguments from the prior round and start trying to edit them into something that looked like a response to Fruit. The result was unconvincing and repetitive but still I'd argue way better effort than just letting it got to forfeit, even if the content was not much better than a forfeit. At least my opponent knew I was engaged and I gave him a chance to continue his arguments, call me repetitive, whatever. If you forfeit than the other guy is left uncertain whether to keep pushing or coast. I think introducing that uncertainty into the debate is poor conduct by itself.
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@RationalMadman
-->@oromagiAnd how many debates did you contribute activity-wise in the last year?
25 by my count. No actual debates, of course, but that activity still easily puts me in top 10% activity wise I would guess. I'd point out I was advocating this feature even back when I was doing 2-3 debates/week
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@ILikePie5
-->@oromagiOnly problem I see is if there’s some sort of mutual agreement to waive rounds or something
Well you should always post "waived per agreement" or something to that effect anyway, right?
We might consider a WAIVE ROUND button, tho.
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@RationalMadman
BTW- the speed with which you engaged on this issue with strong opinions of your own demonstrates exactly why I supported your candidacy for President.
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@RationalMadman
-->@oromagilol- says the man with more forfeits than any other debater by a very long shot.that only supports the stance I take. I win even if I forfeit more often than any other debater, that's actually the stat you should mention.
quantity =/= quality
but that makes me think we should have a # of forfeits column on the leaderboards
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-->@oromagi
- An auto-loss feature would actually encourage debaters who are merely crunched for time to add a brief note of explanation to the debate, which seems only courteous and would prevent the auto-loss feature from kicking in.
Lol. So, instead of going 'fuck I may be able to finish this last minute let me try later and forfeit if need be' we go 'ahhhhh I lose if I don't actively waive this Round!'
In that circumstance, why wouldn't you, in the final minute, just post what you've got with an apology for incompleteness? Literally, even a "No, you're wrong" will prevent a forfeit and it lets readers, voters, the other debater know that you are still engaged. Why would you choose forfeit as preferable to even a very short incomplete argument- since that makes a huge difference in terms of debate outcomes?
Idc if you personally never feel the stress, you are you and Intel and I speak on behalf of the currently active debaters.
I definitely feel the stress. Often. I'm debating whiteflame right now and kept postponing until Sunday and then didn't really get to sit down until Sunday night. I was trying to edit my arguments on deadline while I kept dropping off, desperate for sleep.
Remind me to tell you about the time I had to write a final argument against bsh1 on an iPhone from a McDonald's parking lot in 105 degree weather because that was the only internet I could find.
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I know it would be a big pain codewise but I'd really like to see an option that breaks debates down by arguments rather than rounds. 3-5 arguments with two or three rounds of back and forth.
This would really help make written arguments more coherent for voters, without a lot of checking back to the last round to remember what was argued. We might even consider using this division as way of voting- Args 1 and 4 to PRO but 2, 3, and 5 to CON- con wins sort of thing.
I think in such a format I'd still like to see a space for opening and closing remarks
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@Intelligence_06
We are here to have good arguments, not to be punctual. There are actual people with little time and penalizing others for having a life despite us not knowing how good their argument will be would be pretty harsh, I suppose.
- I agree that it is a high standard but debaters have the option of allowing 2 weeks to make arguments which seems sufficiently generous to allow debaters to have a life.
- An auto-loss feature would actually encourage debaters who are merely crunched for time to add a brief note of explanation to the debate, which seems only courteous and would prevent the auto-loss feature from kicking in.
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@3RU7AL
-->@oromagiI vote aye
Keep in mind this is just a proposal. I think expressing your vote is fine as a way of gauging support just so long as new folks understand that I am not a mod and voting here doesn't count towards anything. I'm just trying to start a conversation which DebateArt seems interested in expanding.
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@Athias
-->@oromagiToo voter-centric. And I agree that voting sucks, but I would submit that forfeiture is at the bottom of the list of reasons (especially considering that voting on forfeits require incredibly short RFD's.)
Right so why are we making humans do work that software could take care of? Especially when its hard to recruit labor to do that work?
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@RationalMadman
Both voters and debaters lose out due to this, I vote no.
Just think of all the debates you wouldn't have to ask for voters on. I can see how a debater who tends to forfeit might consider this a losing proposition but how do voters lose when they don't have to process a lot of low effort debates?
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what if each forfeit subtracted one point from the total benefit a debater stands accrue by winning? So if you would go up by 6 points in rating with a win, a point is deducted for each forfeit? Might be a difficult feature to implement, codewise.
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@RationalMadman
Lol, forfeits are fine, they are a pleasant way to secure wins against willing participants that are casual.
lol- says the man with more forfeits than any other debater by a very long shot.
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@thett3
You can make fun of him if you want, but Black Lives Matter actually did bail out someone who attempted to assassinate a mayoral candidate
That guy is way too crazy and violent to be out on bail. Did somebody blame Trump or is that just Greyparrot lying?
What does Trump have to do with this?
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- Let's agree that voting sucks and debate outcomes mostly determined by a small, overburdened group of voters.
- Forfeit=auto-loss would compel greater alertness in DARTists of good will.
- Quickly processing the less than serious efforts allows active voters to focus on those debates deemed worthy of completion by both participants.
- High drama unintentional forfeitures would likely make the debate rankings more competitive.
- Far fewer depressing forfeitures overall would also make for a decidedly more active queue.
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Obviously the Russians paid you to excuse Trump here.
I'm not the one posting Russian State propaganda as if it was the news.
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terrorist tries to assassinate
Craig Greenberg says it was a mental health thing. I guess the Russians are feeding GP some hysterical rumor-mongering again.
So- terrorist is false
assassinate is false
Blames Trump
Also seems totally false. Nothing in the article cited. When I google "greenberg blames trump" I get nothing. Just pure invention?
Trump is at it again, tearing the country apart.
Probably the first entirely true sentence GP's written this year but well out of context
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@jaishawnemmette
oro-magi, ".. man on man sex .. about bonding and recreation and re-arming the equality of us men .." is it something you´ve experienced and can confirm? .. because I´ve tried it already and it seemed ugly!
Yep. Here' a poem I wrote about it last week
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- Hmm... whatever happened to that dude?
To Chuck? Chuck got married. Twice I think.
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- Then why are you extrapolating on the rest of the population!?
Speaking of extrapolating on populations, did you read that poem I wrote last weekend and posted in ARTISTIC EXPRESSIONS?
- No?
- oh.
It's kind of valentine's day themed. I'm happy to reprint it for you here.
LOVING up CHUCK
the one time he kissed me
i threw up immediately
which goes to show
how much that meant to me
but it's hard on the
kisser's conception
of my reception
to his kiss
which was bliss
blessed
in a doorway
of a church
he kissed me sixty seconds
then i lurched
in my cranium
we were swimming
on a loop up old uranium
canals in summer soup
up salt lake flats
in birthday suits
sputtering our reasons
smoking proofs
in the sleet storm
warm bundled in our slickers
all hands in pockets
under firs over graves
furrowed on knees needled
spit and pine sap-stickied then
even then I knew nothing
would ever be this hard again
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Don't always assume the other party doesn't know the subject. Some of us do know..
On the subject of gay rights? I was that 2% you talk of. Yes, I am assuming that I know more about the subject than you. Why, what do you know about being gay?
The punishment for rape in Pakistan is death penalty, unlike in your countries
and yet somehow you don't make that connection, right? Do you really think most wives would testify to see their husbands executed, even if they'd been raped by him every night for 20 years? This measure by itself has to power to suppress most incidents of rape in Pakistan, yet you don't see it.
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@Yassine
- LOL! No. Don't lie please.
I'm so impressed with the depth of your argument.
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@n8nrgmi
Do u think the USA has a right to pick a fight with Russia as the USA is currently doing?
Europe has a right to pick a fight with Russia considering Europe lost half of Europe to Russia for half of the 20th century. US strategic interests are contractually bound to Europe. We have made promises to Europe as Europe has made promises to us. Europe kept its promise and stood with the US in Afghanistan for twenty years, even though Europe was sick of it from the start. Now Europe asks for our help and we're going to walk away from the alliance that won WW1, WW2, and the Cold War? Why? To whose advantage except Putin and Trump and in the long run China? Why would we break our alliance with Western Democracies for the sake of those two snakes?
n8nrgmi <=> n8nrgim
what's this about?
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@n8nrgim
-->@oromagiwhat do you think of ukraine telling biden to stop escalating the situation?
Again- where's the downside? Zelensky gets to put some distance between himself and Biden- show that he's no puppet. America is not particularly popular in Ukraine so no worries and he gets to set a non-belligerent tone to counter Putin's belligerence. If I were Biden, I would have advises Zelensky to push back.
what do you think when people say biden is sticking his nose into business that isn't his?
I think about how that opinion started in Moscow and then appeared in Republican media outlets. The synergy between these two anti-democratic forces is undeniable.
Certainly, no Republicans criticized Trump when he got caught trying to trade Congress' $400 million worth of arms in exchange for telling some lies about Hunter Biden. Both of those schemes were sticking Trump's nose pretty deep into Ukraine's business and yet Trumpers back then made not a single peep. Republicans refused to even investigate because they were afraid of what they might uncover. Its pretty clear that there's no ideological consistency or rational thread behind the Russian/Republican argument- it is just thinking some way without thinking too hard because it benefits Putin or Trump.
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@Yassine
How do we recognize the most sexually depraved human society in History?
Good question. Let's agree that the most evil kind of sex is rape- where a participant is unable to say no to the sexual act. It stands to reason that any country where women have no control over who they marry and are not allowed to say no to sex once married and indeed can often punished only for being the victim of rape must, by definition, be more depraved than countries that have strong laws protecting men and women from rape. Based on population size, quality of law enforcement, and legal structure protecting rapists, I would submit modern Pakistan as the most sexually depraved society in history.
A couple of decades ago, 2% was the share of the LGBTQ population in the US.
- That number reflected the percent of Americans who identified as gay or lesbian at a time when identifying as gay or lesbian could get you fired or thrown in jail. By 2014 that number was over 8% and is probably higher now. There's no evidence to suggest that the actual prevalence of homosex has increased, just that people are a lot more honest about it as the consequences for honesty have diminished. We've understood since the 50's that gay identity has little to do with gay sex which the majority of all humans seems to enjoy to some degree. For example, only 3% of daily viewers on PornHub come in through the gay video portal but an astonishing 40% of all content viewed on Pornhub is male only. That's a whole lot of straight men jerking off to a whole lot of porn with zero women. Any psychologist or priest will tell you that the percentage of straight men who feel burdened by a single same-sex indulgence or recurring gay fantasy is closer to 80-90% range. Studies of actual sexual arousal patterns confirm that virtually all women are aroused by sex acts between only females and the majority of all men are aroused by sex acts between only males.
Fast forward today, apparently 40% among GenZ identify as LGBT.
- That's a lot more honest than a few decades ago.
This number will keep increasing
- On what science do you base this ridiculous presumption?
in the future until, most likely, by next generation virtually the whole population may be involved in these practices -
- In my studies of history and literature, it seems likely that the great majority of every culture was at least secretly, quite bisexual and that the numbers of humans willing to admit to bisexual feelings is directly proportional to the amount of freedom in society. You see peaks of homosexuality in Greece, the Roman Republic, Western democracies, etc. Gay marriage was briefly legalized in the early days of the French and Russian revolutions. Its not so much an increase in same-sex experimentation so much as an increase in (men's) willingness to talk about their secret feelings.
just as Pederasty (gay pedophilia) was normalized in Ancient Greece.
- Naturally, you haven't even researched the subject enough to understand that PEDERASTY and PEDOPHILIA are mutually exclusive terms. Pederasty is sex with pubescent adolescents while pedophilia is getting turned on by prepubescent children. Greeks and Roman men had a lot of sex with teenage boys but those boys generally weren't any younger than the legal age of marriage for women. Pedophilia was still a crime in both of those cultures.
Now, every other year a new letter is added to the LGBTQABCD+ sexual identity spectrum in your countries. The American Psychology Association (I think?) lists some 200 paraphilias. Which do you think is next in line on this identity alphabet?
- I don't have much a problem with same sex incest. So long as inbreeding is not a risk, I can't see what would motivate public interest.
- Again no problem as long as women are afforded full equal rights and young males are kicked out of the family.
- Pedophilia, Bestiality, the absence of women's suffrage in conservative Islamic societies- these are cases of rape- the sex is involuntary, the victim is not in a position to say no.
I have long argued that the LGBTQ+ initialism is stupid. Queer is a one syllable word and the semantic intent is recognizable just about anywhere English is spoken. Just as queer is seldom used as a synonymous with odd anymore exactly because the widely understood alternative meaning. Queer is inclusive, already including a the initials commonly employed but also initials to rare to include. Somebody should contact the monolithic gay culture community hotline and tell them that stringing on more initials is tiresome and erosive to queer reputation. We're not going to just keep adding syllables to acronyms until nobody can stand to use the term. Queer is fine, direct, super-inclusive, well-understood and comes with the advantage of a certain amount of history.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
The real question though... have you tried the pizza and how good is it?
I have. Its fine but nothing special. Think sort of Papa John's style.
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