oromagi

So if the purpose of vaccine mandates is only to reduce the risk and harm of disease, and vaccines lose efficacy over time and with each new variant, should boosters and new vaccines to deal with variants also be mandatory?

So is the purpose of vaccine mandates to eradicate SARS-CoV-2 from the human population?

Obviously, the goal of vaccine mandates is to get everyone vaccinated.

My question is, for what purpose?

What is the end goal?

I am speaking in the context of a national level. Let's say we get 100% vaccination rate in the U.S. How does that get us "back to normal" again?

Also, why is every 'I' lowercase?

->@oromagi

I can tell you, right hand to God, that one of my friends whose fiancé is a history teacher told me that she tries to “radicalize her kids” with the message that “blacks good, whites bad.” That was the moment I decided to either homeschool or Catholic school.

I simply don’t know what goes on in schools—I haven’t set foot in a public school since I graduated high school. But the little information that does trickle down to me doesn’t leave me with a good impression. Can I believe there are lots of teachers trying to turn their students “woke” absolutely yes 

-->@oromagi

I said I'd agree that some racism gets taught in public schools even before knowing the facts.  That's different from your statement that many schools are engaging in racism.   Let's be sure to note that you are remarkably unwilling to produce the facts in spite of numerous requests from Double.

There's no reason to take that tone with me when I've been polite with you,

a) Is it plausible that teachers, among the most liberal occupations in the country, have changed their teaching methods and subject matter in a way that I and the majority of people would find to be negative, concurrent with the "great awokening" and the current racial obsession in our country? I think that's certainly plausible. 

b) When you see parents revolting nationwide, including in very liberal states and among communities that place a very high value on education, is it plausible to assume that they are reacting to something other than Fox News broadcasts? I think yes.

Fox News'  mislabeling of anti-white racism as CRT is not only deliberately misinforming the public, it is being used as the basis for censorship in 9 states.  As a Liberal, I generally oppose wholesale censorship of any topic in school but wholesale censorship of the WRONG topic seems like intolerably fucked big government mismanagement and wholesale censorship of the wrong topic based exclusively on the lies of one TV personality represents some terrifying anti-American, anti-Democracy obedience to authority.  When Republicans talk about CRT as if it describes anti-white racist propaganda they reveal the carrier code associated with their misinformation.  Before Sept 2020, CRT was an almost unheard-of 50 year conversation within the rarified ranks of Black legal scholarship.  Once Tucker Carlson started calling any race-based teaching he didn't like CRT, the entire Republican party followed like lemmings- Trump was tweeting about CRT 4 days later, State legislatures were passing laws within weeks of Tucker's lie.  

Hold on a second--you say that banning Critical Race Theory from being taught in middle and high schools is unamerican, dangerous censorship, but you also say: "Before Sept 2020, CRT was an almost unheard-of 50 year conversation within the rarified ranks of Black legal scholarship." So if it's not being and never has been taught, why is it so outrageous to demand that it isn't taught?

Here is the definition of Critical Race Theory according to encyclopedia brittanica: 

"critical race theory (CRT), intellectual and social movement and loosely organized framework of legal analysis based on the premise that race is not a natural, biologically grounded feature of physically distinct subgroups of human beings but a socially constructed (culturally invented) category that is used to oppress and exploit people of colour. Critical race theorists hold that racism is inherent in the law and legal institutions of the United States insofar as they function to create and maintain social, economic, and political inequalities between whites and nonwhites, especially African Americans. Critical race theorists are generally dedicated to applying their understanding of the institutional or structural nature of racism to the concrete (if distant) goal of eliminating all race-based and other unjust hierarchies."  https://www.britannica.com/topic/critical-race-theory 

I don't think this is an appropriate thing to be teaching at public high schools, so if teachers were trying to teach this I can see why parents would be angry. I would completely disagree with almost everything there and I know that I could make strong arguments against these concepts. Schools should generally avoid teaching things that aren't settled facts without presenting both sides. It's incredibly easy to see how this could drive conflict and negative feelings among teenagers. Just toxic stuff

As far as Republicans being lemmings...you can think that, I guess. But isn't it a little weird that this issue popped up at all? I mean, it's pretty random for a nationwide grassroots movement to appear in opposition to what was "Before Sept 2020, [ ] an almost unheard-of 50 year conversation within the rarified ranks of Black legal scholarship."

Atwater: Y'all don't quote me on this. You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger". By 1968 you can't say "nigger"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this", is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger". So, any way you look at it, race is coming on the back-burner.

Do the fat cats leading the Republican party just pick a random scary sounding term out of a hat and tell Fox News rally the troops?

If they had that kind of power you'd think they would use it more often instead of being so impotent all the time.

-->@oromagi

If you and Fruit are trying to argue that some anti-White racism gets taught in public schools then I'd likely agree even before knowing the facts (which you are inexplicably shy in presenting).  But, as you've just conceded, that is not CRT and the statement "CRT is not taught in US K-12 schools" stands unrefuted.

This is such a weird takeaway, though.  If you think that many schools are engaging in racism you should be more angry about that than the fact that the opponents of that racism are using a term you don’t think is correct.

But I simply don’t see that condemnation at all from you or anyone else. I don’t care about the term, it’s like getting outraged at someone calling aluminum foil tin foil  

It's just a weird obfuscation. "Critical race theory" is a term being used as a catch all for a number of pretty sinister and anti-white/racial essentialist concepts increasingly being taught, which are deeply unpopular among parents of all races.

Maybe "critical race theory" is the wrong term,

but I sure haven't seen a lot of democrats stepping up to defend some of the things being taught in schools. 

-->@oromagi

Praxis just means "practice" as in "practice what you preach." Jesus Christ was praxising Critical Pedagogy at the Sermon on the Mount.

How was Critical Pedagogy - coined in the 60's by Freire - being praxised by a Jew in the 1st century?

I am not saying CRT and Critical Pedagogy are the same thing.

My position would be that the praxis component of CRT (as opposed to the intellectual theory component) has taken the form of Critical Pedagogy in K-12 schools.

• Has the most medals of any debater.
  
• Most medals wins
  
• holder of the rank of top debater
  
• most prolific debater
  
• Is responsible for maybe one out of every six debates
  
• most well-rounded debateartist- debates, forums, games, religion forum, intersite politics and intrigue
  
• most prolific non-mod voter
• Therefore, best able to represent the multiple facets of interests on this site
  
• Pls. vote RationalMadman to be our first DebateArt President

 I would actually argue that engaging students in Critical Pedagogy should be considered "teaching CRT" because praxis is a necessary component of CRT.  

Also, fundamental principles and definitions of CRT are being taught. Do you disagree that praxis is a necessary component of CRT?

-->@oromagi

I think you need some self examination because you openly show your absolute contempt for entire demographics of people for simply not voting for the President of your choice. You are the poster child for racism and bigotry from my view point by what you have said about other people you have never met and don't even know. I am talking grouping millions of people as unworthy in your view point.

 skin color doesn't matter, content of character does. 

In “The Crucible,” once you were accused of being a witch, there was only one way out alive:  contritely admit to being a witch. Such as it is now with the accusation of racism…

• witchcraft was real and
  
• witchcraft was the oldest social problem in American History and
• Reverend Hale was arguing that we are all potential witches and 
  
• the penalty for witchcraft was self-examination rather than burning at the stake,
  

The above is the sort of reasoning reminiscent of the classic novel “The Crucible.”

->@sadolite

Racial sensitivity training has limited effectiveness on adults:

-->@oromagi

Am I to understand you are using hobbits, mythical characters, to explain CRT. 

And then you turn it in to a right left political argument and then some how fit Trump into it?

Got it.  But the question still stands. Can the student tell the teacher its the biggest load of race  baiting BS ever conceived of after passing the test?

Soo if public schools mandate that CRT must be taught in order to graduate,

It's a made up theory

and is pure opinion

and not based in fact,

It is an attempt to indoctrinate me to think what you think.

You wasted your time and my time as I will never think like you and never be a race baiting asshole like you.  

-->@oromagi

Oh damn. What happened? 

 physically deaf.

Do you consider youself a violent person.?

Did you use to light fires.?

I can't remember the other question. 

But umm yeah 

Are you violent? 

Anyway, that’s an insight into a learning disability for ya.

24 Hours, No MI School Shooting Topic?

The Enlightenment was a high point in Western civilization;

it has been on a downhill slide from there in recent times.

What is postmodernism? It posits the subjectivity of truth.

From there, one arrives at moral relativism, cultural relativism, and neo Marxism.

• If the conservative anxieties about cultural Marxism reflected reality, we would expect to see academic publications on Marx, Gramsci and critical theorists crowding out libertarian, liberal and conservative voices.  To test this, [Philosophy professor Matthew Sharpe] conducted quantitative research on the academic database JStor, tracking the frequency of names and key ideas in all academic article and chapter titles published globally between 1980 and 2019 and concluded:
  
• By 1987, more academic articles were being published about Nietzsche than Marx.
  
• The last four decades have seen a relative decline of Marxist thought in academia. Its influence has been superseded by “post-structuralist” (or “postmodernist”) thinkers like Jacques Derrida, Michel Foucault, Judith Butler and Deleuze.
  

• Where Marxism is built on hopes for reason, revolution and social progress, post-structuralist thinkers roundly reject such optimistic “grand narratives”.
  
• Quantitative research bears out the idea that “cultural Marxism” is indeed a “post-factual dog whistle” and an intellectual confusion masquerading as higher insight.
  

Classical liberalism has adhered to the objectivity of truth, whereas leftism seems to embrace postmodernism.

If you ever hear someone declaring that society needs to “reimagine” something, that is likely postmodernist thinking.

— Jane Thier, Fortune, 10 Nov. 2021

.— Nicholas Phillips, National Review, 19 Oct. 2021

Vulture, 5 Nov. 2021

.— Cheryl Dorsey, Fortune, 28 Oct. 2021

.— Dr. Tj Jiang, Forbes, 18 Oct. 2021

.— Los Angeles Times, 15 Oct. 2021

— oregonlive, 6 Oct. 2021

— Babu Sivadasan, Forbes, 27 Sep. 2021

Just some of the telltale results are:  moral confusion, gender confusion, identity politics, anti-capitalism, collectivism, anti-Westernism, anti-patriotism, and even skepticism over the inherent objectivity of mathematics.

Postmodernism abhors criticism of all cultures except for Western, European cultures.

at least Christianity places a high value on objectivity and fundamental truths.

Postmodernism is actually reducing society’s trust in institutions (such as science in this case) even further because it is detracting from the rigor and trustworthiness that adhering to objectivity provides.

People of faith will not be convinced to trust science more anytime soon if they feel it has been tainted by the ideological agenda of Postmodernism.

In short, left unchecked, Postmodernism leads to confusion, chaos, and the decline of Western societies. Worst of all, that may actually be a feature rather than a bug…

• Kevin Smith should sue- being forced to become a walrus is the plot of his 2014 film "Tusk"
  
• Why does young Johnny have the opportunity/motivation to express his make believe to the "Internet People"?
  
• How do the Internet People "force" Johnny?  
  
• Sounds like Johnny's parents are to blame

-->@oromagi

Where's your source so I can reject it like you are rejecting mine.

the car ramming was to escape antifa terrorists chasing the man,

not defending what he did, but

antifa played a huge role in the incident

the police chief resigned due to media pressure.

All police favor leftist activists

-->@oromagi

You fail to understand

• the gov of Florida has the authority  and think force is being used. It is not force, it is arrogant school boards overstepping their authority and stripping citizens of their rights.
  

• Procedures for investigating disease, timeframes for reporting disease, definitions, procedures for managing specific diseases, requirements for follow-up reports of known or suspected exposure to disease, and procedures for providing access to confidential information necessary for disease investigations; and for purposes of the immunization registry, procedures for a health care practitioner to obtain authorization to use the immunization registry, methods for a parent or guardian to elect not to participate in the immunization registry, and procedures for a health care practitioner described above to access and share electronic immunization records with other entities allowed by law to have access to the records.
  

• The bill requires each district school board and the governing authority of each private school to establish and enforce a policy requiring that, prior to admittance to or attendance in a public or private school, grades kindergarten through 12, or any other initial entrance into a Florida public or private school, each child is required to have on file with the DOH immunization registry a certification of immunization for the prevention of those communicable diseases for which immunization is required by the DOH. The bill deletes the current-law allowance for such a child to “present to” or have such certification on file with his or her school.
  

The Gov is simply protecting my rights

under his authority. I will refer you to state of emergency powers and the Governors authority.

School boards have no authority.

Florida has the lowest per capita infection rate and doesn't resort to unscientific tyrannical and draconian methods.

Florida has the lowest covid cases in the entire US 

[EV] pollute the environment  just like regular cars.

Are electric vehicles greener?

The short answer is yes — but their full green potential is still many years away.

Experts broadly agree that electric vehicles create a lower carbon footprint over the course of their lifetime than do cars and trucks that use traditional, internal combustion engines.

Last year, researchers from the universities of Cambridge, Exeter and Nijmegen in The Netherlands found that in 95% of the world, driving an electric car is better for the environment than driving a gasoline-powered car.

Electricity grids in most of the world are still powered by fossil fuels such as coal or oil, and EVs depend on that energy to get charged. Separately, EV battery production remains an energy-intensive process.

A study from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Energy Initiative found that the battery and fuel production for an EV generates higher emissions than the manufacturing of an automobile. But those higher environmental costs are offset by EVs’ superior energy efficiency over time.

In short, the total emissions per mile for battery-powered cars are lower than comparable cars with internal combustion engines.

“If we are going to take a look at the current situation, in some countries, electric vehicles are better even with the current grid,” Sergey Paltsev, a senior research scientist at the MIT Energy Initiative and one of the study’s authors, told CNBC.

Paltsev explained that the full benefits of EVs will be realized only after the electricity sources become renewable, and it might take several decades for that to happen.

“Currently, the electric vehicle in the U.S., on average, would emit about 200 grams of CO2 per mile,” he said. “We are projecting that with cleaning up the grid, we can reduce emissions from electric vehicles by 75%, from about 200 (grams) today to about 50 grams of CO2 per mile in 2050.”

Similarly, Paltsev said MIT research showed non-plug-in hybrid cars with internal combustion engines currently emit about 275 grams of CO2 per mile. In 2050, their projected emissions are expected to be between 160 to 205 grams of CO2 per mile — the range is wider than EVs, because fuel standards vary from place to place.

Only difference is it is released into a concentrated area and then spreads out.

Its time to end the free ride and make electric cars sell on their own merits and stop fucking the taxpayer by making them pay for them to even remotely make them a viable option in the free market.

If they are so great, people will buy them on their own merits without subsidies.

Also all new charging stations should be funded with taxes added to the cost of the electricity that is used to charge the car just like gas.

-->@oromagi

Govt always says its decisions about climate change and covid are based on science.

So show me the science that demonstrates how a virus is prevented by spreading when people are both wearing and nor wearing masks.

Science, politics and activism are virtually all the same thing now. It is impossible to tell the difference. 

-->@oromagi

the 1 death and 48 injuries is because of the car ramming,

he was being chased by antifa members

the police were in favor of antifa, of course they wouldn't arrest them

antifa were the main trouble makers there, everyone knows that

Some critics argued that members of the media were excusing the violence from activists associated with antifa, a loosely affiliated group of far-left protesters.  Jonah Goldberg wrote that the presence of the alt-right did not excuse Antifa from its policies that "oppose free speech, celebrate violence, despise dissent and have little use for anything else in the American political tradition".  Journalists Paul Waldman and Peter Beinart criticized this argument as an ineffective tactic to defend Trump and it also stated that none of the violence from the counter-protesters justified any moral equivalency between the two sides at the rally. Beinart wrote that unlike the alt-right, antifa are not practitioners of an ideology that advocates the ethnic cleansing of other racial and religious groups nor do they "celebrate regimes that committed genocide and enforced slavery", and antifa promotes egalitarianism unlike the alt-right.  Ray Arsenault of the Tampa Bay Times wrote that although there were some violent members among their ranks, the counter-protesters were mostly made up of "peaceful activists committed to nonviolence", including several clergymen and Black Lives Matter activists.  Linda Qiu of The New York Times mentioned that although both sides were violent that day, only one side—the alt-right—was responsible for a deadly act of domestic terrorism.  Jonathan Tobin of The Times of Israel mentioned that the explicit presence of Nazi and Ku Klux Klan imagery from the white supremacists and Fields' attack "render irrelevant" antifa presence at the rally.  Beinart and Qiu also both wrote that right-wing terrorism was far more common than left-wing terrorism.

-->@oromagi

Lets stop making veterans

by not sending people to these horrible, horrible wars anymore because war is genocide (not pro life), it is not small government (not libetarian), and gives 20% of the vets involved PTSD (not anti pain).

Trump said he would get us out of the wars, and I supported him in this endeavor. 

Obama said he would end the wars, and he continued a bunch. 

Joe Biden said we would end the wars and we are currently bombing 7 different countries (Which countries is the US currently bombing? — Quartz (qz.com)).

We need a politician that will actually end the wars and the bombings, and I don't care if they call themselves a republican or a democrat. 

There are reasons for both parties to be anti war.