Total posts: 8,696
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Oromagi
TOWN
Whiteflame
Bron
SupaDudz
Lunatic Wylted
Evilgenius
AWoL
5. Polygot
SCUM
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Oromagi
TOWN
Whiteflame
Bron
SupaDudz
Lunatic
AWoL
5. Polygot
8. Wylted
9. Evilgenius
SCUM
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@whiteflame
How’s it going, dude?
The dude abides
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(First things first)
VTL Supadudz
Enjoy Branson's Plain Pioneer's syrup plus Vitamin D
My ROLE is quite disconnected from character description.
YwwtT
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@Wylted
have you ever argued with a solispsist?
How would I know if I had?
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@thett3
I’m trying to understand the leftist position as much as I can. Identity politics/racial justice/ whatever you want to call it is a very hot subject for the left in America right now but on both sides I mostly see partisan saber rattling instead of discussions on policy. So I am asking in good faith: what do you actually want to do? Reparations? Economic redistribution? Hate speech laws? Etc. And at what point would you consider the issue to be resolved?
I identify as a Liberal and consider race a mostly social construction. As such, I think the resolution is societal and mostly depends on the creation of a more compelling social distinction. Nothing was more effective at erasing modern racial distinctions than dividing the world into two superpowers. I think the human brain has some instinctive need to divide fellow humans into us and them and such primitive impulses are not easily resolved or overcome but perhaps if we create a well distinguished population on another planet or discover an alien intelligence, that might resolve race as an important social divider.
I think the big answer to the question what should be done about race in America is that we're doing it- working to create a nation where all people enjoy access to the American franchise. If we look at the steady march of improved enfranchisement over the course of US history, we should recognize considerable decreases in racial disparities over the past 200 years, 100 years, 50 years, even 20 years. That tells me that we are on the right path and whatever the present controversy, our ultimate goal needs to be to remain on that path. My hope is that my generation is more racially harmonious than the previous and that each subsequent generation is more harmonious still. Always getting better is the goal.
I don't think much more can be accomplished at the level of Federal legislation. Reparations are impractical. Economic redistribution is provocative. Hate speech laws are ineffective and illiberal. I think the current priorities of the Democratic majority in Congress- voting rights and infrastructure- are proper instruments for improving societal divisions. Let's make sure that every citizens has easy and equal access to the vote without government override by state legislatures. Let's invest in projects that improve American efficiency while also employing the working class. Let's make the US more competitive by making good education and good healthcare relatively inexpensive and widely available.
I disagree that racial politics is as hot on the American Left as it is on the American Right. As far as I can tell, right-wingers spend way more time worrying about race than does the left-wing. Take a look at this site, for example. How often do right-wingers raise topics specific to race or post to topics with racially specific concerns compared to left-wingers? I think right-wing institutions like Trumpism and FOX News are essentially built on white fears of losing power and as such spend a lot more time worrying about race than does the left-wing, who seek improvement on a much wider range of issues.
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@TheUnderdog
about 330 million people live in the US.Roughly 10% of the US's population is highschool or college aged.
13.9% of US pop is 15-24 yrs old
Therefore, there are about 33 million people in the US that are highschool or college aged.
39.1 million
Lets say that 50% of people in this age group have a minimum wage job.
Why would we say that when it is so far from accurate? In 2017, 542,000 workers earned the Federal min wage of $7.25/hr., about half of these, or 271,000 are under 25 yrs old. These numbers have declined during the pandemic but official numbers aren't out yet.
17.2 million 15-25 year olds have a job and only 271,000, or 1.5% make minimum wage. You overestimated the percentage of young workers on minimum wage by about 33 times.
That would mean that about 17 million highschoolers and college aged people have a minimum wage job in the US.
Ouch, way off. You overestimated the number of under 25 minimum wage workers by about 100 times, or two orders of magnitude.
But the BLS confirms that this number is only about 1 million.
Nope. BLS estimates that number at less than 270,000.
How can these numbers be so drastically different?
Because you overestimated by about hundred times.
My idea is that the BLS is keeping track of Non simulated people, whereas what we think is true is for ALL people (which includes non simulated and simulated people). If this is the case, then for every 1 non simulated person in the US, there are about 16 simulated people.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics does not keep track of simulations.
If most people are simulated,
They aren't.
how do we know who is real and who is fake?
Look at them with your eyes.
I could be a fake human for all you know and so are 90% of the people you, "know".
That's a lot of fantasy wafting off of your bad math.
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@TheUnderdog
-->@oromagiAt the federal level, I would implement a proportional system. If 40% of your country votes democrat, then your party gets 40% of the seats in congress. This works with Israel. It also would break up the 2 party system without anyone worrying about throwing their vote away. There would be all sorts of parties coming to fruition (and these parties would be bipartisan too) since nobody has to worry about throwing their vote away.
OK, so you'd eliminate the Senate. How do you represent such wide disparities?
Say you gave one seat in congress for every 100.000 people. The most populous county, Los Angeles County would send 100 reps to congress. But the 92 least populous counties, mostly scattered across the Western Plains would need to band together to send a single representative. You certainly couldn't afford to offer proportional representation to counties under 100,000 of which there are 1,233.
Also, counties were created according to the needs of state legislatures at the time of districting. Delaware only has 3 counties while Texas has 254. If every county gets at least one representative, then what's to stop state legislatures from manufacturing more counties to increase representation?
If you try to create a system where every county sends at least one Rep, than you are overwhelmingly skewing towards rural populations, mostly the population that lacked the education or initiative to move to the city. To my mind, this portion of the population is already over-represented at the state level to the harm of proportional representation. County representation would profoundly increase that harm.
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@TheUnderdog
More than half of all residents live in just 143 big counties (in terms of the number of residents), according to an analysis of U.S. Census Bureau county estimates. That means less than half of the population is spread out across the remaining 2,999 small counties.
How would you represent this disparity at the Federal level?
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Statement by Former President George W. Bush regarding the death of George Floyd (FOX News falsely claims that Bush 'never once spoke out' regarding the death and the violence that followed)
Laura and I are anguished by the brutal suffocation of George Floyd and disturbed by the injustice and fear that suffocate our country. Yet we have resisted the urge to speak out, because this is not the time for us to lecture. It is time for us to listen. It is time for America to examine our tragic failures – and as we do, we will also see some of our redeeming strengths.
It remains a shocking failure that many African Americans, especially young African American men, are harassed and threatened in their own country. It is a strength when protesters, protected by responsible law enforcement, march for a better future. This tragedy — in a long series of similar tragedies — raises a long overdue question: How do we end systemic racism in our society? The only way to see ourselves in a true light is to listen to the voices of so many who are hurting and grieving. Those who set out to silence those voices do not understand the meaning of America — or how it becomes a better place.
America’s greatest challenge has long been to unite people of very different backgrounds into a single nation of justice and opportunity. The doctrine and habits of racial superiority, which once nearly split our country, still threaten our Union. The answers to American problems are found by living up to American ideals — to the fundamental truth that all human beings are created equal and endowed by God with certain rights. We have often underestimated how radical that quest really is, and how our cherished principles challenge systems of intended or assumed injustice. The heroes of America — from Frederick Douglass, to Harriet Tubman, to Abraham Lincoln, to Martin Luther King, Jr. — are heroes of unity. Their calling has never been for the fainthearted. They often revealed the nation’s disturbing bigotry and exploitation — stains on our character sometimes difficult for the American majority to examine. We can only see the reality of America's need by seeing it through the eyes of the threatened, oppressed, and disenfranchised.
That is exactly where we now stand. Many doubt the justice of our country, and with good reason. Black people see the repeated violation of their rights without an urgent and adequate response from American institutions. We know that lasting justice will only come by peaceful means. Looting is not liberation, and destruction is not progress. But we also know that lasting peace in our communities requires truly equal justice. The rule of law ultimately depends on the fairness and legitimacy of the legal system. And achieving justice for all is the duty of all.
This will require a consistent, courageous, and creative effort. We serve our neighbors best when we try to understand their experience. We love our neighbors as ourselves when we treat them as equals, in both protection and compassion. There is a better way — the way of empathy, and shared commitment, and bold action, and a peace rooted in justice. I am confident that together, Americans will choose the better way.
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Here are President Biden's from the Shanksville Firehouse on Sept. 11 (FOX News falsely claims that Biden made no speeches on 9/11)
On this 9/11, like every 9/11, I’m thinking about my friend Davis, who I grew up with in Delaware. On this day 20 years ago, he and his family had just passed the first year without their youngest of three sons, Teddy, who died in a boating accident at age 15. And his eldest son, Davis Jr., was just six days into the new job, on the 104th floor of the South Tower, the World Trade Center. Davis went straight to ground zero to search for his son. They searched deep into the last inning of hope, as he put it. A few days later, I spoke with Davis, and talked as fathers who know. I was on my way to speak to the students at the University of Delaware about what to make of the new world we were in. He told me to tell people, quote, “Don’t be afraid.” He said, tell them, “Don’t be afraid.”
The absolute courage it took after two unimaginable losses is extraordinary, yet the most ordinary of American things. To know life can be unfair and uncertain, a cruel twist of accident or deliberate act of evil. But, even in darkness to still be the light. To the families of the 2,977 people from more than 90 nations killed on September 11th, 2001 in New York city, Arlington, Virginia, and Shanksville, Pennsylvania, and the thousand more who were injured, America and the world commemorate you and your loved ones, the pieces of your soul. We honor all those who risked and gave their lives in the minutes, hours, months, and years afterwards. The firefighters, police officers, EMTs and construction workers and doctors and nurses, faith leaders, service members, veterans, and all of the everyday people who gave their all to rescue, recover and rebuild.
But, it’s so hard whether it’s the first year or the 20th. Some of them have grown up without parents, and parents have suffered without children. Husbands and wives have had to find ways forward without their partners in their life with them. Brothers and sisters, uncles and aunts, loved ones and friends that have had to celebrate birthdays and milestones with a hole in their heart. No matter how much time has passed, and these commemorations bring everything painfully back, as if you just got the news, a few seconds ago. And so on this day, Jill and I hold you close in our hearts and send you our love.
For people around the world that you’ll never know who are suffering through their own losses who see you, your courage, your courage gives them courage that they, too, can get up and keep going. We hope that 20 years later, the memory of your beloved brings a smile to your lips, even while still bringing a tear to your eye. The days that’s followed September 11th, 2001, we saw heroism everywhere, in places expected and unexpected. We also saw something all too rare, a true sense of national unity. Unity and resilience, the capacity to recover and repair in the face of trauma. Unity and service, the 9/11 generation is stepping up to serve and protect the face of terror, to get those terrorists who were responsible, to show everyone seeking to do harm to America, that we will hunt you down, and we will make you pay.
That will never stop, today, tomorrow, ever, from protecting America. Yet, we also witnessed the darker forces of human nature: fear and anger, resentment and violence against Muslim Americans, true and faithful followers of a peaceful religion. We saw a national unity bend. We learned that unity is the one thing that must never break. Unity is what makes us who we are, America at its best. To me, that’s the central lesson of September 11th. It’s that at our most vulnerable in the push and pull of all that makes us human and the battle for the soul of America, unity is our greatest strength.
Unity doesn’t mean we have to believe the same thing. We must have a fundamental respect and faith in each other and in this nation. We are unique in the history of the world because we’re the only nation based on an idea, an idea that everyone is created equal and should be treated equally throughout their lives. That is the task before us, to once again, lead not just by the example of our power, but by the power of our example, and I know we can. For I know hope is not simply an expectation. Hope is a conviction. Hope allows us to act with courage, to act and honor those we lost 20 years ago and those who have given their whole souls to the cause of this nation every day since. To act and build a future, not a reactionary one or one based on fear, but a future of promise, strength, and grace worthy of their dreams and sacrifice. And to act and keep the faith that while life is fragile, it is truly something wonderful.
We find strength in its broken places, as Hemingway wrote. We find light in the darkness. We find purpose to repair, renew, and rebuild. And as my friend told me that September 20 years ago, we must not be afraid. May God bless you all. May God bless the lives lost on September 11th, 2001 and their loved ones that were left behind. May God protect our troops.
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INGRAHAM: AMERICA 'won't be fooled again' as BUSH 'speaks for Biden' in POLITICAL REMARKS
George W. Bush's condemnation of 'extremists' sounded like it came from a Democrat, host says
George W. Bush's condemnation of 'extremists' sounded like it came from a Democrat, host says
Laura Ingraham slams George W Bush’s ugly 9/11 remarks on 'The Ingraham Angle'
In her "Ingraham Angle" on Monday, host Laura Ingraham noted that President Joe Biden failed to offer public remarks on Saturday, 20 years after Al Qaeda terrorists attacked America on September 11, 2001.
(NOTE: This is a lie. Transcript of Biden's speech on 9/11 follows in next post)
She also noted how pundits and public observers had varied predictions as to why Biden was silent – whether he would be booed on stage at such a solemn event, or whether he would go off script or get lost.
But, the host said the most plausible reason is that former President George W. Bush essentially spoke as a proxy for him during remarks in Shanksville, Pennsylvania.
"Why would Biden need to speak at all when George W. Bush would do it for him?" she said, pointing to what she said was a political commentary in the midst of his remarks.
"We have seen growing evidence that the dangers to our country can do not only across borders, but from violence that gathers within. There is little cultural overlap between violent extremists abroad and violent extremists at home. But there is disdainful pluralism in their disregard for human life, in their determination to defile national symbols. They are children of the same foul spirit and it is our continuing duty to confront them," Bush said Saturday.
Ingraham said the 43rd president wasn't speaking about actual extremists like Antifa or Black Lives Matter, "whose rampages and riots caused death and destruction coast to coast." She added that Bush never once spoke out during the mass violence and rank criminal activity in places like Portland, Philadelphia, Washington and New York last year.
(NOTE: This is lie. Bush's remarks regarding George Floyd's death and the rioting that followed included in subsequent posts)
"Do you remember seeing him speak out about any of that? When they screamed that America is "inherently racist" did he raise an objection? When they tried to burn down Saint John’s Church across from the White House did President Bush decry the defiling of "national symbols"? No and No."
Those remarks, she said, would have fit just as well coming out of Biden's mouth – as the president rarely misses a chance to slam his predecessor or his predecessor's supporters on one account or another.
"Of course, the elites who despised Bush for the 8 years he was in office lapped it up," Ingraham added, pointing to plaudits from CNN's Dana Bash and John Berman, and MSNBC's Kasie Hunt.
"Bush and Obama have coordinated before in hitting Trump. One day in October 2017, both men in separate speeches hit Trump without mentioning him by name of course," Ingraham added.
"When Benghazi went down and four Americans died, Bush didn’t speak out. When Obamacare was rammed through without a single Republican vote, Bush didn’t speak out. When Biden created a humanitarian, national security, and economic nightmare at the border, Bush didn’t speak out."
(NOTE: In fact, American tradition from Washington to Obama discouraged political critique from former President as a gesture of National loyalty.)
"But when Donald Trump began to slowly but surely call out and dismantle Bush’s globalist legacy, he couldn’t stop himself. It was personal."
She played another clip from Bush's speech, in which he claimed "bigotry seems emboldened. Our politics seem more vulnerable to conspiracy theories and outright fabrication… We’ve seen nationalism distorted into nativism…" noting again that any "prominent Democrat" could be imagined saying the same about Donald Trump.
(NOTE: The fact that Ingraham perceives criticism of Trump in Bush's criticism of anti-American conspiracies and lies tells us more about Ingraham's perception of Trump than her perception of Bush.)
In turn, she added, Democrats and their media allies have ideologically separated the Bushes and Cheneys from the GOP and have espoused that "it should essentially be labeled a terrorist organization. This idea is being openly discussed among the left."
"Let’s not kid ourselves, the Bushes helped raise 150 million dollars for Jeb’s 2016 run, and in the end, Jeb dropped out before getting to his own home state primary. And they still don’t get it. They’re not mad at the people who called him a war criminal or Hitler or who ridiculed him every week on Saturday Night Live. They’re mad at the Republicans who rejected their policies."
"They all claimed that Trump was the devil incarnate for demanding loyalty of the people who worked for him, but the truth is, the Bushes were the ones who demanded personal loyalty regardless of how their policies affected the country."
"This is all hard for me to say tonight, because I always liked the Bushes personally."
Ingraham said she herself has seen the Bushes' in action in that way, when she publicly questioned President Bush's 2005 choice of White House Deputy Chief of Staff Harriet Miers to replace Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. Bush ultimately settled on now-Justice Sam Alito Jr.
"When I questioned and ultimately helped torpedo his nomination of the supremely unqualified Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court, the Bush White House made it clear they wouldn’t ever deal with me again," she said. "You can never go against the Family."
"So the Old Bush Guard has declared an unwinnable war again, and this time it’s against the 74-million-plus Republicans who voted for Trump in 2020, and who didn’t vote for Jeb in 2016."
(NOTE: Bush condemned violent extremism in American politics, it is Ingraham who is equating all 74 million Trump voters to violent extremists.)
She noted that while Bush was trying to endear himself to the media that called him all sorts of names and demonized him for eight years, Trump was in the very same city meeting with firefighters and NYPD officers to mark the solemn occasion.
(NOTE: FOX News cut away from Trump's speech and issued an instant correction when Trump falsely claimed that he won the 2020 Presidential election. Although the occasion of the speech was 9/11, the subject was primarily Trump's personal post-presidential grievances.)
"The fact is, most conservatives long ago shook off the allure of the Bushes. We found new leaders – including exciting young governors -- who will fight for us instead of against us, and we won’t be fooled again," the host said.
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Thank you very much. Laura and I are honored to be with you. Madam Vice President, Vice President Cheney. Governor Wolf, Secretary Haaland, and distinguished guests:
Twenty years ago, we all found -- in different ways, in different places, but all at the same moment -- that our lives would be changed forever. The world was loud with carnage and sirens, and then quiet with missing voices that would never be heard again. These lives remain precious to our country, and infinitely precious to many of you. Today we remember your loss, we share your sorrow, and we honor the men and women you have loved so long and so well.
For those too young to recall that clear September day, it is hard to describe the mix of feelings we experienced. There was horror at the scale -- there was horror at the scale of destruction, and awe at the bravery and kindness that rose to meet it. There was shock at the audacity -- audacity of evil -- and gratitude for the heroism and decency that opposed it. In the sacrifice of the first responders, in the mutual aid of strangers, in the solidarity of grief and grace, the actions of an enemy revealed the spirit of a people. And we were proud of our wounded nation.
In these memories, the passengers and crew of Flight 93 must always have an honored place. Here the intended targets became the instruments of rescue. And many who are now alive owe a vast, unconscious debt to the defiance displayed in the skies above this field.
It would be a mistake to idealize the experience of those terrible events. All that many people could initially see was the brute randomness of death. All that many could feel was unearned suffering. All that many could hear was God's terrible silence. There are many who still struggle with a lonely pain that cuts deep within.
In those fateful hours, we learned other lessons as well. We saw that Americans were vulnerable, but not fragile -- that they possess a core of strength that survives the worst that life can bring. We learned that bravery is more common than we imagined, emerging with sudden splendor in the face of death. We vividly felt how every hour with our loved ones was a temporary and holy gift. And we found that even the longest days end.
Many of us have tried to make spiritual sense of these events. There is no simple explanation for the mix of providence and human will that sets the direction of our lives. But comfort can come from a different sort of knowledge. After wandering long and lost in the dark, many have found they were actually walking, step by step, toward grace.
As a nation, our adjustments have been profound. Many Americans struggled to understand why an enemy would hate us with such zeal. The security measures incorporated into our lives are both sources of comfort and reminders of our vulnerability. And we have seen growing evidence that the dangers to our country can come not only across borders, but from violence that gathers within. There is little cultural overlap between violent extremists abroad and violent extremists at home. But in their disdain for pluralism, in their disregard for human life, in their determination to defile national symbols, they are children of the same foul spirit. And it is our continuing duty to confront them.
After 9/11, millions of brave Americans stepped forward and volunteered to serve in the Armed Forces. The military measures taken over the last 20 years to pursue dangers at their source have led to debate. But one thing is certain: We owe an assurance to all who have fought our nation's most recent battles. Let me speak directly to veterans and people in uniform: The cause you pursued at the call of duty is the noblest America has to offer. You have shielded your fellow citizens from danger. You have defended the beliefs of your country and advanced the rights of the downtrodden. You have been the face of hope and mercy in dark places. You have been a force for good in the world. Nothing that has followed -- nothing -- can tarnish your honor or diminish your accomplishments. To you, and to the honored dead, our country is forever grateful.
In the weeks and months following the 9/11 attacks, I was proud to lead an amazing, resilient, united people. When it comes to the unity of America, those days seem distant from our own. A malign force seems at work in our common life that turns every disagreement into an argument, and every argument into a clash of cultures. So much of our politics has become a naked appeal to anger, fear, and resentment. That leaves us worried about our nation and our future together.
I come without explanations or solutions. I can only tell you what I have seen.
On America's day of trial and grief, I saw millions of people instinctively grab for a neighbor's hand and rally to the cause of one another. That is the America I know.
At a time when religious bigotry might have flowed freely, I saw Americans reject prejudice and embrace people of Muslim faith. That is the nation I know.
At a time when nativism could have stirred hatred and violence against people perceived as outsiders, I saw Americans reaffirm their welcome to immigrants and refugees. That is the nation I know.
At a time when some viewed the rising generation as individualistic and decadent, I saw young people embrace an ethic of service and rise to selfless action. That is the nation I know.
This is not mere nostalgia; it is the truest version of ourselves. It is what we have been -- and what we can be again.
Twenty years ago, terrorists chose a random group of Americans, on a routine flight, to be collateral damage in a spectacular act of terror. The 33 passengers and 7 crew of Flight 93 could have been any group of citizens selected by fate. In a sense, they stood in for us all.
The terrorists soon discovered that a random group of Americans is an exceptional group of people. Facing an impossible circumstance, they comforted their loved ones by phone, braced each other for action, and defeated the designs of evil.
These Americans were brave, strong, and united in ways that shocked the terrorists -- but should not surprise any of us. This is the nation we know. And whenever we need hope and inspiration, we can look to the skies and remember.
God bless.
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I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shatter'd visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamp'd on these lifeless things,
The hand that mock'd them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
-Percy Bysshe Shelley
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South Tower, 96th Floor, Corner Office
"Come where you can breathe,” she says.
There is no breathing here;
air is poison, searing, near solid.
To live I must lean and breathe.
Soon the flames will touch me,
push me to lean farther.
Past leaning is flying.
Flying is freedom;
freedom is choice.
The hatred behind me
soon will force choosing.
I hope I have the courage
to choose to fly.
-F John Sharp
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Created:
The Convergence of the Twain
I
Here is an architecture of air.
Where dust has cleared,
nothing stands but free sky, unlimited and sheer.
II
Smoke's dark bruise
has paled, soothed
by wind, dabbed at and eased by rain, exposing the wound.
III
Over the spoil of junk,
rescuers prod and pick,
shout into tangled holes. What answers back is aftershock.
IV
All land lines are down.
Reports of mobile phones
are false. One half-excoriated Apple Mac still quotes the Dow Jones.
V
Shop windows are papered
with faces of the disappeared.
As if they might walk from the ruins - chosen, spared.
VI
With hindsight now we track
the vapour-trail of each flight-path
arcing through blue morning, like a curved thought.
VII
And in retrospect plot
the weird prospect
of a passenger plane beading an office-block.
VIII
But long before that dawn,
with those towers drawing
in worth and name to their full height, an opposite was forming,
IX
a force
still years and miles off,
yet moving headlong forwards, locked on a collision course.
X
Then time and space
contracted, so whatever distance
held those worlds apart thinned to an instant.
XI
During which, cameras framed
moments of grace
before the furious contact wherein earth and heaven fused.
-Simon Armitage
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Created:
Jesus Poem
If I'd been trapped in one of those towers,
and I had a cell phone,
I'd have called my sister and brother
and told them I'd loved my life,
loved them, always would, and to
thank everyone for being so good to me and
to take no avenging actions,
nor support the avenging actions of others,
but to let me die with the dignity of my faith.
Then I'd step out into the air,
something opening beneath me,
the last fall of my life.
It's hard to say what I'd be feeling,
surprise, mystification, terror, glory,
but I'm sure I wouldn't be angry.
In the last moments
there's nothing to fix,
no protest against the speed of the fall.
I imagine I 'd be filled with
something beyond terror,
a feeling which is
(from where we stand)
intolerably bright.
-Susan Birkeland
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The Entry of Osama Bin Laden into Paradise
Imagine that it exists, and that he travels there-
The bright warrior star-the meteor
Climbing forever up a rainbow reputation.
At his hands, at his feet are angels one-five at angels one-five.
Their singing unravels death's mysteries and its stillness,
Causes the dead to wake, to swarm like bees
Outnumbering all the living.
Their waking voices gasp and echo in Heaven's pyramid hives.
Some spill into its cavernous, rumouring streets,
Death's if-onlys and its might-have-beens.
Some, the more restless dead, sit astride Heaven's
Terra cotta rooftops, its Chinese warrior horses.
They stare upwards at Heaven's runway,
Unrolling like a famous tongue to meet him
From Sirius to Polaris, their hands sway like anemones
On coral reefs. They lift their children so he can see them:
So many dead.
So many dead.
-Max Speed
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History of the Airplane
And the Wright brothers said they thought they had invented
something that could make peace on earth when their wonderful
flying machine took off at Kitty Hawk into the kingdom of birds
but the parliament of birds was freaked out by this man-made bird
and fled to heavenAnd then the famous Spirit of Saint Louis took off eastward and
flew across the Big Pond with Lindy at the controls in his leather
helmet and goggles hoping to sight the doves of peace but he did not
even though he circled VersaillesAnd then the famous Flying Clipper took off in the opposite
direction and flew across the terrific Pacific but the pacific doves
were frighted by this strange amphibious bird and hid in the orient skyAnd then the famous Flying Fortress took off bristling with guns
and testosterone to make the world safe for peace and capitalism
but the birds of peace were nowhere to be found before or after HiroshimaAnd so then clever men built bigger and faster flying machines and
these great man-made birds with jet plumage flew higher than any
real birds and seemed about to fly into the sun and melt their wings
and like Icarus crash to earthAnd the Wright brothers were long forgotten in the high-flying
bombers that now began to visit their blessings on various Third
Worlds all the while claiming they were searching for doves of
peaceAnd they kept flying and flying until they flew right into the 21st
century and then one fine day a Third World struck back and
stormed the great planes and flew them straight into the beating
heart of Skyscraper America where there were no aviaries and no
parliaments of doves and in a blinding flash America became a part
of the scorched earth of the world
And a wind of ashes blows across the land
And for one long moment in eternity
There is chaos and despairAnd buried loves and voices
Cries and whispers
Fill the air
Everywhere
-Lawrence Ferlinghetti
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Old man lying by the side of the road
With the lorries rolling by
Blue moon sinking from the weight of the load
And the buildings scrape the sky
Cold wind ripping down the alley at dawn
And the morning paper flies
Dead man lying by the side of the road
With the daylight in his eyes
Don't let it bring you down
It's only castles burning
Find someone who's turning
And you will come around
Blind man running through the light of the night
With an answer in his hand
Come on down to the river of sight
And you can really understand
Red lights flashing through the window in the rain
Can you hear the sirens moan?
White cane lying in a gutter in the lane
If you're walking home alone
Don't let it bring you down
It's only castles burning
Find someone who's turning
And you will come around
Don't let it bring you down
It's only castles burning
Just find someone who's turning
And you will come around
-Neil Young
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September 1, 1939
I sit in one of the dives
On Fifty-second Street
Uncertain and afraid
As the clever hopes expire
Of a low dishonest decade:
Waves of anger and fear
Circulate over the bright
And darkened lands of the earth,
Obsessing our private lives;
The unmentionable odour of death
Offends the September night.
Accurate scholarship can
Unearth the whole offence
From Luther until now
That has driven a culture mad,
Find what occurred at Linz,
What huge imago made
A psychopathic god:
I and the public know
What all schoolchildren learn,
Those to whom evil is done
Do evil in return.
Exiled Thucydides knew
All that a speech can say
About Democracy,
And what dictators do,
The elderly rubbish they talk
To an apathetic grave;
Analysed all in his book,
The enlightenment driven away,
The habit-forming pain,
Mismanagement and grief:
We must suffer them all again.
Into this neutral air
Where blind skyscrapers use
Their full height to proclaim
The strength of Collective Man,
Each language pours its vain
Competitive excuse:
But who can live for long
In an euphoric dream;
Out of the mirror they stare,
Imperialism's face
And the international wrong.
Faces along the bar
Cling to their average day:
The lights must never go out,
The music must always play,
All the conventions conspire
To make this fort assume
The furniture of home;
Lest we should see where we are,
Lost in a haunted wood,
Children afraid of the night
Who have never been happy or good.
The windiest militant trash
Important Persons shout
Is not so crude as our wish:
What mad Nijinsky wrote
About Diaghilev
Is true of the normal heart;
For the error bred in the bone
Of each woman and each man
Craves what it cannot have,
Not universal love
But to be loved alone.
From the conservative dark
Into the ethical life
The dense commuters come,
Repeating their morning vow;
"I will be true to the wife,
I'll concentrate more on my work,"
And helpless governors wake
To resume their compulsory game:
Who can release them now,
Who can reach the deaf,
Who can speak for the dumb?
All I have is a voice
To undo the folded lie,
The romantic lie in the brain
Of the sensual man-in-the-street
And the lie of Authority
Whose buildings grope the sky:
There is no such thing as the State
And no one exists alone;
Hunger allows no choice
To the citizen or the police;
We must love one another or die.
Defenceless under the night
Our world in stupor lies;
Yet, dotted everywhere,
Ironic points of light
Flash out wherever the Just
Exchange their messages:
May I, composed like them
Of Eros and of dust,
Beleaguered by the same
Negation and despair,
Show an affirming flame.
-WH Auden
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@Dr.Franklin
->@oromagithose are opinion polls nationwide, these are legislatures who were elected who made laws in their own state
Well, you were the one talking about the Supreme Court and the US Constitution so the context should be Federal. So far, you have not mentioned any laws written by state legislature although I'm sure plenty of them have violated state constitutions, too.
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@Dr.Franklin
-->@oromagi
please answer the thread, The constitution is set up in a way so that judges can go directly against the will of the people.Why is it like this,?
- So let's just lock you in on this- 60% of Americans believe abortion should be legal in most circumstances, 80% in some circumstances. You are saying that the SCOTUS decision last week not to overturn the Texas ban on most abortions was wrong because that SCOTUS decision goes directly against the will of the people.
- You must therefore oppose the 2016 election of Donald Trump and the 2000 election of George W. Bush since those too, went against the will of the people.
- Likewise, you will oppose the new state laws like in Georgia and Texas that allow Republican-held election boards to overturn Democratic majorities at polls.
##################
- The Constitution is like this by design. The will of the majority is fickle and reactionary but it is the engine of our Republic. The founding fathers chose to temper the mob's instability with representation by state and by district and judges bound by precedent and executives bound by tradition. We want the majority opinion to prevail but just one election seldom represent the majority well.
- Let's use your 1994 anti-immigration law as a good example of what I am talking about.
in 1994 the people of California VOTED to stop the massive immigration and demographic change that was present there BUT a judge pulled some bullshit reason and declared it "unconstitutional", meaning it was voided, thats right in the United States of America a judge can declare something VIA THE CONSTITUTION to shut down something that WAS DEMOCRATICALLY DECIDED ON. This means that in effect-the Constitution actively worked against the will of the American people.California pop in 1994 was 31 million
- In 1994 the people of California number 31 million
- of these, 19 million were eligible voters
- of these, 14.3 were registered voters
- of these, 5 million voted for PROP 187
- only 3.5 million voted against
- You say that PROP 187 represented the will of the people but the truth is that 16%, less than one in 6 Californians voted for it.
- Since passage of PROP 187 is widely seen as marking the end of Republican party power in California, we can infer that a more engaged electorate would have rejected this proposals. Republicans were energized by a popular moderate Republican Gubernatorial candidate, Pete Wilson
- Although non-Hispanic whites comprised 57% of California's population at the time, they comprised 81% of voters in the 1994 general election. Latinos totaled 8% of voters, although they comprised 26% of the state's population.
- reaction to PROP 187 went a long way towards correcting this imbalance.
- "will of the people" is not supported by the evidence
- A Federal Judge ruled that most of the law was political posturing- illegally claiming state control over federal foreign policy, federal national security, and federal social security. An appeal process was begun but by that point it was apparent that PROP 187 opposition had energized Black and Hispanic voters in the state at Republican expense and the state had moved solidly left. Although the law stayed on the books until 2014, even future Republican Governors would not touch it with 10-foot pole, the people hated it so much.
- Yes, the Constitution gives the Federal Govt oversight of foreign policy and national security so the Republicans created a law they knew would get struck down in Federal courts but got to fundraise off the anti-immigrant and anti-Mexican contingents for many, many years.
- Any legislature that was actually serious about stopping illegal immigration would pass a law that gave a little time in prison for employers. The employees are desperate and risks to save their lives- that kind of motivation is hard to adjust. But put a few of the rich men who profit by underpaying illegal immigrant in jail. The Trump Organization, for example, has been caught using illegal immigrants as recently as 2019. I bet if we put Don, Jr. in jail for 18 months for his role in employing illegal immigrants the demand for illegal immigrants would crash and supply would follow.
- Therefore, no legislature has ever seriously tried to halt immigration.
- Certainly the pandemic has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that native born citizens will not take the jobs that illegal immigrants normally do for us and that illegal trade fulfills a vital role in our economy.
how can we prevent this?
- Fascist coup like Trump tried Sixth of January is probably your best option. Then Trump can claim 90% support in every election and Fox will define the people's will for them. No judges will ever dare contradict the will of the people when it is controlled by a sufficiently ruthless executive.
and yes im a conservative
Sorry, but that's just a label you are tagging yourself with. No genuine American Conservative would ever argue that "The Constitution is Utterly Worthless."
You are just demonstrating that you don't understand the fundamentals of Conservativism.
and i know they worship the constitution but they dont realize that the Constitution means absolutely nothing
Anti-Conservative as well as anti-Liberal. You are arguing that the most stable and prosperous instrument of government devised by humankind means "absolutely nothing." Do you have an alternative form of government that you'd like to suggest?
because what is "constitutional" in the first place is decided by regular people like me and you who have opinions
Shall we agree that the majority of all Americans holds and by rights ought to hold the ultimate reigns of power- of the people, by the people, for the people?
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@RationalMadman
to prove that Mesmer is MgtowDemon? Nah, I should learn my lesson from prior examples and trust your good judgement in such matters. I didn't believe Singularity was Wylted for a long time although you spotted it early on.
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@RationalMadman
So you're saying that Mesmer should be banned because you think he's an alt of MgtowDemon? That would surprise me since MgtowDemon seemed capable of discussing more than one subject and Mesmer demonstrates no such capacity. In any case, doesn't Wylted's precedent suggest that some select trolls are being allowed to return? Is there something about Wylted that deserves greater forgiveness for alting than Mesmer? Let's agree that anybody who only wants to talk about how much he's not a racist is probably a racist. Haven't we decided to tolerate a certain degree of open racism as well as many other ignorances and bigotries?
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@Dr.Franklin
wiki + common knowledge
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@Wylted
-->@oromagi
allowed to broadcast without contradiction
Which to your concrete way of thinking can only be accomplished by ban. I see. What if, instead, Republicans simply acknowledged the truth as it manifests, rather than misinforming for power and grift?
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@Dr.Franklin
....but then, when you ask, he calls himself a Conservative.
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@Wylted
->@oromagidid you just say you want to ban profiteers from contradicting whatever narrative is being pushed by the establishment
no
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@n8nrgmi
-->@oromagiwhen a law is passed, it has to have a basis for existing in the constitution. i dont know of any provision that would give him the authority. for example, the commerce clause of the constitution gives congress lots of leeway in creating regulations that touch on interstate commerce. again, i dont know what basis the executive branch has to create laws out of nowhere, that have no basis in the constitution. it's possible a law or provisions exists that i dont know about. though.
No new law was made last night. The health and safety of employees in the workplace has long been subject to Federal protections.
SOTUS ruled in the 1905 Jacobson v. Massachusetts case:
- "There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good,” read the majority opinion. “On any other basis, organized society could not exist with safety to its members. Society based on the rule that each one is a law unto himself would soon be confronted with disorder and anarchy.”
- "Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others.”
- "...for nearly a century, most of the members of the medical profession have regarded vaccination, repeated after intervals, as a preventive of smallpox; that, while they have recognized the possibility of injury to an individual from carelessness in the performance of it, or even, in a conceivable case, without carelessness, they generally have considered the risk of such an injury too small to be seriously weighed as against the benefits coming from the discreet and proper use of the preventive."
The Federal Govt. has been mandating vaccines since the earliest days of the Republic. No new law is being asserted here and the Supreme Court precedent deeply supports the Federal mission to save citizens from disease outbreaks.
so- no new law, existing law well established.
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@Wylted
->@oromagithere's a free and highly effective solution and is allowed to broadcast that fact without contradiction from the mere profiteers.Why does the left always want to stifle free speech like Hitler did?
nobody argued that any speech need be constrained here.
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@n8nrgmi
Can I ask- what is your argument for unconstitutional?
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@Wylted
->@oromagiDo you know which medicine saves your life 24 out 30 chances and costs hundreds or thousands of dollars? Ivermectin.So, let people spend their money how they want
Sure, let the people spend so long as it's not FOX pretending it's news, so long as the government has effectively communicated that there's a free and highly effective solution and is allowed to broadcast that fact without contradiction from the mere profiteers.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
He's pretty famous: actor, gameshow host, pothead
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@Wylted
The scientific community as usual is just showing an abundance of caution.
he says like that's a bad thing
However if dosed properly it is harmless,
...and entirely ineffective. You have to mega-dose on ivermectin to kill COVID, like screw up your liver mega-dose.
so zero down sides.
unless you call fucking up your liver a downside
Worst case scenario, it doesn't work.Best case it saves your life.
Do you know which medicine saves your life 24 out 30 chances and costs hundreds or thousands of dollars? Ivermectin.
Do you know which medicine saves your life 30 out 30 times for free? Pfizer-B.
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I see your anecdote and call you:
YESTERDAY: NEW MEXICO SUSPECTS FIRST IVERMECTIN DEATH
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I propose one theory regarding the right's hype of hydroxychloroquine
$$ hydroxychloroquine only: 9 out 30 died
$$$ hydroxychloroquine + ivermectin: 6 out of 30 died
$ Free now pay tax later Pfizer–BioNTech vaccine: 0 out of 30 died
Nobody's making any money off the most effective medicines. Therefore, the only place for money to be made is in less effective medicines that can only be sold to more gullible groups. It's not like somebody wasn't going to try to make that money- that gullible money is always out there.
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@Wylted
People just need to know how to dose properly. If you dose properly, it's relatively harmless. I'll take an iverctim tomorrow. I don't care. Not paying for it though, I'm broke you'll need to find a way to mail it to me.
times are turbulent, man. hang in there.
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@Wylted
-->@Dr.Franklindid you see covid only put Joe on his ass for 24 hours because of that? Shit it must be doing something, according to the media, covid is almost a death sentence, but Rogan basically has a 24 hour bug after taking the horse pills
I nominate Wylted for MASTER of DISINFORMATION.
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@Dr.Franklin
no conservative is taking ivermectin, its just joe rogan
I don't think that's true, doc-
In response to widespread misuse, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, U.S. Centers for Disease Control, World Health Organization, American Medical Association, American Pharmacists Association, and American Society of Health-System Pharmacists issued statements in 2021 warning that ivermectin is not approved or authorized for the treatment or prevention of COVID-19 and advised against its use for that purpose outside of clinical trials. Ivermectin has been pushed by right-wing politicians and activists promoting it as a supposed COVID treatment. Misinformation about ivermectin's efficacy spread widely on social media, fueled by publications that have since been retracted, misleading "meta-analysis" websites with substandard methods, and conspiracy theories about efforts by governments and scientists to "suppress the evidence."
On September 1, 2021, health experts from the United States expressed concerns from reports of sharp increases in outpatient prescribing and dispensing of ivermectin with respect to levels before the pandemic. These experts explain that the CDC has not authorized or approved ivermectin for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19.
another case where we agree Rogan is anecdotal
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@Discipulus_Didicit
You don't know Joe Rogan? Do you listen to podcasts?
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@dustryder
On the one hand, we have peer-reviewed studies showing the efficacy of vaccines against covid-19. On the otherhand, we have a talkshow host's anecdotal evidence. I mean...
agree. Rogan is anecdotal
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@TheUnderdog
-->@Discipulus_DidicitJoe Rogan said he used ivermectum to try and treat covid.
SUBMITTED for EVIDENCE: One perpetually stoned podcaster did not die from ivermectin overdose. Shall we base our decision on the weight of such knowledge?
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