oromagi

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@<<<oromagi>>>

Thank you for that statistic. 

However,

https://www.macrotrends.net/states/louisiana/murder-homicide-rate-statistics

Louisiana, even before becoming a red state, had a surprisingly high murder rate. It decreased under republicans. So we could say that republicans helped Louisiana, where democrats have failed to.

• Needless to say, you are profoundly ignorant regarding US poltical history.
  
• Red state/Blue State starts with CNN in 2000.
  
• As a slave-owning succession state, Louisiana has always an abnormally high gun ownership/murder rate, even while Democrats were the Right-WIng of American politics until 1948, just as the Republican Party was the Left-WIng of American Politics until FDR.  
  
• It would be accurate to say that the Right Wing has always controlled Louisiana politics, with some brief populist forays- Hewey Long, Carter, Clinton, etc.

Louisiana                15.8

Missouri                   11.8

Arkansas                  10.6

Mississippi              10.6

South Carolina     10.5

Alabama                    9.6

Tennessee                 9.6

Maryland                   9.1

Georgia                       8.8

North Carolina         8.0

Indiana                        7.5

Kentucky                     7.2

Ohio                              7.0

Arizona                        6.9

Alaska                          6.7

Texas                            6.6

West Virginia             6.6

Virginia                        6.1

Florida                         5.9

Wisconsin                  5.3 

Montana                     5.0 

South Dakota           4.5

North Dakota           4.2 

Nebraska                  3.6 

Iowa                            3.5 

Kansas                       3.4 

Utah                           3.1 

Wyoming                  3.1

Idaho                         2.2 

New Hampshire    0.9 

So there are three channels to this debate at this point.  3.) The original issue, whether there is a discernible ideology & social movement which has been labeled LGBT ideology.

Taken as a whole it seems these comments indicate a belief in a set of genes that make some people superior to others.

Do you think natural selection has operated on the ability to create more sexualized art than others?

“No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord." (Deuteronomy 23:1)

Then you wasted your time. I don't fucking care!  I am not religious where as YOU a Catholic 

• I am, in fact, an Athiest.  If you don't care about religion you probably refrain from judging the religiousness of others, right?
  

You have ignored the point of the thread completely

• That's right.  My only point that was you were being hypocritical while calling out a stranger on hypocrisy, being unchristian towards a stranger while judging their Christianity.

No my point is very clear.

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@<<<oromagi>>>

And you are ignoring the fact that the Catholic Church teaches that Jesus is God.  

Of course you don't when it suites you not too.

Your Pastor posing as a man is a fkn "abomination to god". But then so are most Catholic  boy bumming priests. What is it with the church and men of god and sexual deviancy and perversion?

• The only point here is that you spend your life throwing the first stone anonymously and missing the point of Christianity entirely.
  

Is Marjorie Taylor Green an ordained member of the church who's commission is to go out into the world and "preach the good news" of Jesus' teachings?

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@<<<oromagi>>>

Well my point is- that went clean over your head- is that the likening to Jesus  of a child murdering transsexual came from a ordained  man/woman of the church.

• Galatians 3:
  

Where it is written in the scripture that s/he preaches to others clearly states;  "A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this". Deuteronomy 22:5

is Marjorie Taylor Green a transsexual Pastor? Is Trump a child murdering Transsexual?

@<<<oromagi>>>

sold in 11 states and it was the number one beer in 10

The beer tastes like shit. I don't know how it would make it to number one. 

I am a yuengling guy, 

• for commercial brands, Guinness is my go to. But Denver is the microbrew capital of the world. There are hundreds of stripped down bars that pour just a few beers brewed on site and a few guest brews from other microbreweries.  I go to one for a weekly game of Dungeon crawl classics and I’ve never had the same beer twice there,  they rotate out so quickly. Some are terrible but most are good and a few are truly great, one time experiences. 

So you admit you don't understand how it would contribute to survival, you just assume it does because you believe natural selection would eliminate anything detrimental.

Yes we do, otherwise we could have hard predictions on sexual orientation based on genetic testing.

You are mixing two different contexts. It is not homosexuality that is being selected in that thought experiment, it would be bravery. Since men can be brave if the normal system to focus on human women is disrupted the lesser systems, such as an abstract attraction to bravery may dominate, thus allowing the attraction to another man.

• Yes.  Some small familial and twins studies have found some genetic correlation to pedophilia
  

... which genes?

Which genes were correlated to homosexuality? Surely this wouldn't be impossible to compare ourselves, there are public APIs for the human genome project.

However, without knowing if this claim is true, it in no way disproves the possibility of similar genetic correlations with homosexuality.

have no way to know that.

Asexuals would fill the niche you purport better than suicidal homosexuals.

I said pornography. Not pornography in the legal sense

If you believe the majority of Floridians would see those images, be told they were for the assigned consumption of minors, and not find that offensive you are gravely mistaken. I doubt even a majority of New Yorkers or San Fransicans would say that.

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@<<<oromagi>>>

Detrimental mutations tend to rapidly disappear, not promulgate consistently in every socially adept species.

Not mutations, effects. Detrimental effects can be cancelled out by helpful effects from the same mutation.

it could still be selected for because selecting a good fertile pairing is worth far more than the small amounts of energy lost.

• Exactly.  The gay genes allow for increased adult to children ratios, selecting for quality generations over quantity.
  

The genes may be correlated, but they are certainly not sufficient. Nurture remains.

...and what if it is discovered that the exact same genes are correlated with pedophilia?

• No such correlation has ever been found.
  

But did anyone look?

The FBI instructs investigators that the correlation between homosexuality and pedophila is less than random.

That is a mathematically incoherent assertion. Randomness is the least correlation possible. It is zero correlation. You would need anti-correlation, and that certainly doesn't fit with the popular impression of pedophilia as there appear to be nearly as many stories of boys being targeted as girls.  ... that's a dishonest game there. Boys are male. The only consistent classification of a man who is aroused by both boys and women is bisexual.

If there is no social movement to expose children to pornography then the book bans in Florida schools were not bans of pornography.  Just crazy republicans spreading libel.

It does seem odd that the holiest day of the year for the Christian, Good Friday, which remembers Jesus, dying on a cross, is called good.

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@<<<oromagi>>>

Likewise, the ideology your suggest as LGBTQist  was first articulated in the Declaration of Independence and is called the American Civil Rights Movement, founded in the 14th Ammendment to the US Consistitution.

Exposing children to pornography was not articulated in the declaration of independence. Sterilizing mutilation was not articulated in the declaration of independence. Jailing people for not addressing others as they demand to be addressed was not articulated in the declaration of independence.

social movement is quite real.

• Natural selection ceded to human ethics ten thousand years ago. We decide the shape of our future.
  

Small propensity for non-reproductive sex is harmless. Just as with the fecundity, this is easily explained by correlated selection.

it could still be selected for because selecting a good fertile pairing is worth far more than the small amounts of energy lost.

Just so, if we could have fertile women and men who are asexual but take care of near relations that would serve just as much (if not more) function than being strongly homosexual.

...and what if it is discovered that the exact same genes are correlated with pedophilia?

• the mainstream view among researchers and professionals who work in the area of child sexual abuse is that homosexual and bisexual men do not pose any special threat to children. For example, in one review of the scientific literature, noted authority Dr. A. Nicholas Groth wrote:
  
• Are homosexual adults in general sexually attracted to children and are preadolescent children at greater risk of molestation from homosexual adults than from heterosexual adults? There is no reason to believe so. The research to date all points to there being no significant relationship between a homosexual lifestyle and child molestation. There appears to be practically no reportage of sexual molestation of girls by lesbian adults, and the adult male who sexually molests young boys is not likely to be homosexual (Groth & Gary, 1982, p. 147).
  
• In a later literature review, Dr. Nathaniel McConaghy (1998) similarly cautioned against confusing homosexuality with pedophilia. He noted, "The man who offends against prepubertal or immediately postpubertal boys is typically not sexually interested in older men or in women" (p. 259).  This well known lack of a linkage between homosexuality and child molestation accounts for why relatively little research has directly addressed the issue. For example, a 1998 comprehensive review of published empirical research on the sexual abuse of boys reported only one study (the 1994 study by Jenny and colleagues, cited above) that included data about the self-reported sexual orientation of perpetrators (Holmes & Slap, 1998).
  
• Proving something that is already widely known simply isn't a priority for scientists. Indeed, a commentary that accompanied publication of the study by Jenny et al. in Pediatrics noted that debates about gay people as molesters "have little to do with everyday child abuse" and lamented that they distract lawmakers and the public from dealing with the real problem of children's sexual mistreatment (Krugman, 1994).
  

That is not to say you can't have a good life without your preferred sex 

"I should tell prepubescent children I like to fuck men" is not a feeling.

While I admit I have been direct, forward and sometimes harsh…BUT it was only in RESPONSE to those who attacked me. It is common for those emotively driven vs those possessing actual emotional and intellectual intelligence.  I will not name names of the latter, but the names of the former are patently obvious.

 when people say "LGBT ideology" they.... mean "A specific widespread ideology which claims to be focused on protecting the rights, privileges, and respect of LGBT people."

I am a LGBT person (by your definition, I am a sexual outsider in more than one respect), however there is a articulable set of issues which some people claim are for the benefit of LGBT people which I find morally questionable and/or irrational besides.

However, that does not mean eradication is impossible. As you say "a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental factors".... It is every measurable element of both nature and nurture.

It does bring a truth about biology to the fore front though, everything has a reason, and unlike say traveling the speed of light or moving a planet out of orbit the energies are small. All we need is knowledge, to define the problem is to see how it could be solved.  Whatever that combination that produces sexual deviants, those factors are controllable. Thus the moment of identification is the moment eradication becomes possible without violating any living person's rights.

If you could have been normal from the start, would you choose to be?

Sexual orientation is "This is what I feel"

Ideology is "This is what I should feel"

Why are you qualified to question his existence on a site where free expression ought to be encouraged, or anyone at all?

• That is the white supremacist's signature move- when you can't compete, de-legitimize.

You’re not using the correct definition of ideology, yet again.

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@<<<oromagi>>>

Why are you here at DART? Seriously. Why!

It’s clear you’re neither interested in legit debates/discussions, nor are you equipped to do so. 

Asking for a friend. 

What specific experience are you talking about? Having unusual sexual desires? That's not even part of the definition of "trans" (although definitions and that movement have a complicated relationship).

 I put forth easily verifiable fact based assertions

Just because an emoji is used =/= an argument from/to emotion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion. My showing annoyance for your lack of integrity, reading comprehension skills, and otherwise sophomoric replies does’t fall into that category because I am not using it to deflect from the facts or the core argument, but rather to show my lack of patience with you personally, specifically.

• You argument is that you weren't appealing to  emotion, just annoyance and lack of patience?  Good luck with that.

No, it's you who missed the point. Dogs don't have ideology.

If the claim is that a behavior must arise from ideology and it arises in animals that is false.

It is not proof however that it does not arise from ideology.

Non-humans kill, that doesn't mean human killing can't arise from ideology.

> 

@<<<TWS1405_2>>> I never argue from emotion. Never. Ever. Ever. 

• You literally started your argument with "I despise"  Your own words from 20 minutes ago disprove you.
  

There’s that awesome display of lack of reading comprehension skills 🙄 

The context in which I gave the term despise clearly meant as it is defined here: to regard as negligible, worthless, or distasteful. No emotion.

Choose the Right Synonym for despise

DESPISE, CONTEMN, SCORN, DISDAIN mean to regard as unworthy of one's notice or consideration.
DESPISE may suggest an emotional response ranging from strong dislike to loathing.

despises cowards

CONTEMN implies a vehement condemnation of a person or thing as low, vile, feeble, or ignominious.

contemns the image of women promoted by advertisers

SCORN implies a ready or indignant contempt.

scorns the very thought of retirement

DISDAIN implies an arrogant or supercilious aversion to what is regarded as unworthy.

disdained popular music

It is patently a false equivalency fallacy.

Comparing Capitalism to the ideology of the LGBTQ+&-😛 is a gross false equivalency fallacy.

There is no comparison given the fact that you’re using the wrong definition where this discussion is concerned. 

we recognize the emotion amongst our species. Doesn’t mean we go up to other people and squirt our eyes at them 

• You mean crying?  I've definitely seen humans cry before.
  

Squint, the iPad autocorrected to squirt. Animals, like cats, squint as a form of showing affection or approval (like smiling).

Again, another example of your lack of reading comprehension skills.

• Mainstream science strongly disagrees.
  

Cherry picked, emotively drive, and subjectively inferred opinions you mean. Of course these type would disagree. 

Homosexuality is no more common place than transgenderism is. LGBs have consistently been less than 4% of the population in this country pre-covid. Trans, less than 0.5%.

There is no “gay”, no more than there is a “trans” gene.

It’s all genetic defects/abnormalities in the brain compounded by social contagions that push impressionable people over the edge into that madness. 

I mean really, we all have the capability for sadistic violence, but we choose not to act on it for all the right reasons. 

There has never been a human society/culture where only one gender evolved let alone survived without reproduction (which requires the other gender) to present day.

Only bigot here is you, clown.  I never argue from emotion. Never. Ever. Ever. 

Typical intellectual coward retort. I never argue from emotion. Never. Ever. Ever. 

Other species are irrelevant. They don’t possess sentience like human beings. They operate on innate pleasure principles, they don’t think about it, they just do. 

• You missed the point.  Ideology is exclusively human.  If humans share a trait with most animals, that trait is not an ideology.
  

The ideology is rooted in mental emotions rooted in physical pleasure (what Freud called the Id). The ideology is the theory derived from the emotive thought process, the physical pleasure is purely instinctual (i.e., innate).

we recognize the emotion amongst our species. Doesn’t mean we go up to other people and squirt our eyes at them

before we smell their butts. 

Human beings think about it then make a choice. Animals don’t choose. They just do. 

• By definiton, a trait found in most animals is evolutionarily adaptive- it helps that species to survive.  The more social a species become, the more homosexual behaviour is in evidence.  Clearly, homosexuality is a social adaptation for socially intelligent species.  Humans should always chose to conserve those traits that help preserve us a species.  Put another way: what gifts God gave us, let no man scorn
  

By definition, homosexual behavior as the anthesis of survival.

It’s unnatural and patently de-evolutionary.  It’s not adaptive.

It’s a perversion of nature.

 It demonstrates the decline of a species when they cave entirely to their pleasure principles over heterosexuality and rational logic, as nature intended. 

I really despise this retort so often used. 

Other species are irrelevant. They don’t possess sentience like human beings. They operate on innate pleasure principles, they don’t think about it, they just do. 

• You missed the point.  Ideology is exclusively human.  If humans share a trait with most animals, that trait is not an ideology.
  

Human beings think about it then make a choice. Animals don’t choose. They just do. 

• By definiton, a trait found in most animals is evolutionarily adaptive- it helps that species to survive.  The more social a species becomes, the more homosexual behaviour is in evidence.  Evidently, homosexuality is a social adaptation for our socially intelligent species.  Humans should always chose to conserve those traits that help preserve us a species.  Put another way: what gifts God gave us, let no man scorn.
  

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@<<<oromagi>>>

Oh, you mean like Akenatun, King David, Socrates, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Hadrian, Richard the Lionheart...

Those were very bad societies, but we dont have statistics on them.

Try USA, where we have statistics of what happened after accepting homosexuality.

What  manner of self-hating idiot would believe in a God that threatened his worshippers with eternal suffering?

Actually, suffering happens to those who dont follow the Bible. So the logical thing to do is to follow the Bible.

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

If God made Hell then he is not good.  If God is good, then he would never make hell.

No. Punishing evil is the definition of good.

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@<<<oromagi>>>

There are statistics that show every society that accepted homosexuality became worse after.

Homosexuals go to hell and burn.

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@<<<oromagi>>>

Sounds like you feel comfortable calling people fakes despite their own self-identification.

• I'll call anybody by any pronoun they wish.   I believe the police, reporters, friends, and family when they say that Aldrich is trolling you.
  

You seem incapable of accurately summarizing the statements of others.

Sounds a lot like "no true Scotsman" to me. The rules the left-tribe has laid out don't let randos question self-professed identity. A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman they say. A non-binary is anyone who identifies as non-binary.

• Another mentally ill, depection based Right-Wing hate group living to troll. 
  

Are you saying they aren't homosexuals? 

• No and also don't give a single  fuck. 
  

Then what is the "depection"?  (Also note this typo would be used as proof of 73 IQ if it came from Trump)

• Grifter Gays: How conspiracy theorists and right-wing operatives created Gays Against Groomers
  Founder Jaimee Michell has a long history of slinging baseless accusations of pedophilia and abuse against political opponents
• Spokesperson Milo Yiannopoulos has been accused of advocating paedophilia. The allegation arose from several video clips in which he said that sexual relationships between 13-year-old boys and adult men and women can be "perfectly consensual" and positive experiences for the boys.  Following the release of the video clips, Yiannopoulos resigned from his position at Breitbart, his invitation to speak before the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) was revoked, and a contract to publish his autobiography with Simon & Schuster was cancelled.
  
• Spokesperson Roger Stone was fired as Youth Coodinator for Bob Dole's campaign after it came to light that he was adverstising for sex with well-built athletes or military men.

• Another mentally ill, depection based Right-Wing hate group living to troll. 
  

Are you saying they aren't homosexuals? 

• No and also don't give a single  fuck.  The twitter account was started by Trump's campaign to troll Republican's  irrational fear of homosexuality. 
  

Sounds like you feel comfortable calling people fakes despite their own self-identification.

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@<<<oromagi>>>

LGBT is obviously not an ideology

No. It is an ideology. The moment you think "its okay for me to do horrible things with another man and teach others of that too", it is both ideology and a very corrupt morality. Thats why it needs to be eradicated before it can spread.

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@<<<oromagi>>>

• You told a great big stupid fucking lie:  42% of Transgender identifying people commit suicide.
  

Ok, attempted suicide, not committed. My mistake. 

Still helps to prove my point that they are mentally ill. 

You can still be a mean person and hate the pride flag even if you are non-binary.

Ever heard of Gays against Groomers?

That is definitely not my best piece of evidence. Basic biology is my best evidence. 

So prayer and meditation. Are you saying they are the same

or are you endorsing both these two things?

What about repenting? Do you also endorse repenting?

Your bio says you are Catholic. You are a Catholic who is “not religious”?

Is prayer a substantive response  by a member of the U.S. Congress to repeated mass shootings?

• yes.  Contemplaton of trauma in a context of community and non-violence is always a good idea.  The Sermon on the Mount is an excellent  framework in which to contemplate a community's response to violence.
  
• Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, "Thou hast faith, and I have works": shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
  

I believe that the LGBT community and ideology is not healthy for society, and must be eradicated (the ideology, not the people). 

An ideology that goes against science, is not going to help us to advance, and will do the opposite. 

That's my basic belief. 

None of that refutes my point. 

• there's a strong correlation between hormone therapies and suicide.
  

Also doesn't refute my point. 

But we do have evidence for him identifying as non-binary.

Anyone seeing the correlation?