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@Earth
We have two players actually claiming ROLE COP and ROLE BLOCKER. Both these roles are typically scum.
Let's recall that Supa promised that he would be inactive this game but has been more active than anybody- changing his vote regularly on the flimsiest of causes while never discussing theme or strategy just desperately looking to start a train.
Let's also recall that if we lynch supa today, I get a bonus WATCHER tonight.
I guess the whole game really hinges on whether the guy who thinks I'm TOWN enough to give me that power and also thinks Supa is SCUM enough to merit a lynch will now actually vote to lynch or waste his ROLE entirely.
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oromagi Dick Durbin[D] COP (ODD NIGHTS)
X>lunatic Cory Booker[D] 1XGLADIATOR
X>whiteflame John Cornyn [R] 1XJUDGE
TOWN
speedrace Gary Peters [D] TRACKER
chris Rand Paul[R] PACIFIST
earth Ben Cardin[D] 1XBUSINESSMAN (?)
waterphoenix Patrick Leahy [D] 1XDOUBLEVOTER
greyparrot Susan Collins[R] 2xROLE BLOCKER
supadudz Josh Hawley{R} 1XROLE COP
SCUM
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@Vader
People can quarantine on their own when they have COVID.
The President of the United States failed to comply with his quarantine in spite of the promise of every possible comfort. It's a low bar but we have to assume that because Trump lacked the self-control necessary to quarantine a significant portion of the rest of the population would likely prove similarly disabled. Let's recall that Easter wave in New York from which most US infections originated was started by Americans under self-quarantine. At that point, US quarantine basically meant you got a call after 14 days asking if you got sick. Almost all of the 30million known US infections and more than half-million American deaths result from Trump's quarantine policies which proved too permissive.
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@TheUnderdog
@oromagiLet's be sure to note that Joe Biden's administration ended all arms sales to Saudi Arabia in late January and withdrew US support for Saudi Arabia in Yemen in February. Saudi Arabia and the Houthis entered into peace negotiations in Oman a week later.Got a source for that?
In the past two years, Biden has said Saudi Arabia’s government has “very little social redeeming value”, that Riyadh had murdered “children … and innocent people” in Yemen, and it was a “pariah” state. “Under a Biden-Harris administration, we will reassess our relationship with the Kingdom [of Saudi Arabia], end US support for Saudi Arabia’s war in Yemen, and make sure America does not check its values at the door to sell arms or buy oil,” Biden said in October.
https://apnews.com/article/biden-end-support-saudi-offenseive-yemen-b68f58493dbfc530b9fcfdb80a13098f
The Houthis have “provisionally” accepted a Saudi initiative to end the war in Yemen, a Yemeni news agency reported.
Updated 29 March 2021
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oromagi Dick Durbin[D] COP (ODD NIGHTS)
X>lunatic Cory Booker[D] 1XGLADIATOR
X>whiteflame John Cornyn [R] 1XJUDGE
TOWN
speedrace Gary Peters [D] TRACKER
chris [R] PACIFIST
earth Ben Cardin[D] BUSINESSMAN (?)
waterphoenix [R] 1X?
greyparrot Susan Collins[R] PROTECC (?)
supadudz Josh Hawley{R} 1XDETECTIVE (ROLE COP)
SCUM
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- WP and GP have not ROLE claimed
- WP and MrC have not character claimed
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@MisterChris
oromagi [D]
X>lunatic Cory Booker[D] 1XGLADIATOR
X>whiteflame John Cornyn [R] 1XJUDGE
TOWN
speedrace Gary Peters [D] TRACKER
chris [R] PACIFIST
earth Ben Cardin[D] BUSINESSMAN (?)
waterphoenix [R] 1X
greyparrot Susan Collins[R] PROTECC
supadudz Josh Hawley{R} 1XDETECTIVE
SCUM
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@Earth
I am responsible for the 1x watcher thing. I am a businessman. Basically I can pick a player and a target. And if the target was lynched, the player gets a 1x of something of my choice.
Are you claiming a role called BUSINESSMAN? Because if you are I can't find a template for that role on the usual sources.
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--> @oromagiI am Sen Dick Durbin, Democrat from IllinoisYou proposed a DvR split and now you're claiming Democrat?
That's right. At the time we had two dead democrats who flipped town and two sus living republicans. Since I was also Democrat, the split seemed at least worth putting on the table. Later results have disproved the theory.
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@Earth
I am responsible for the 1x watcher thing. I am a businessman. Basically I can pick a player and a target. And if the target was lynched, the player gets a 1x of something of my choice.
That makes a whole lot more sense. Pie never mentioned that this represented a fellow player's action but it makes so much more sense that it is such. So....that's not a mod confirmation. Supa is still my top lynch to a lesser degree stripped of the deus ex machina.
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@Vader
Bro what? Oromagi is so lying. Why would a mod actively say this?
I don't know why PIe said this but why would I make it up?
If I was SCUM, I'd feel like I was ahead of the game with two no-lynches and two PRs NK'd. I certainly would not feel the need to make up some improbable tale. Because such a claim would be idiotic as SCUM and at best buy me a lynch on the guy we were most likely to lynch anyway. I understand it does not seem like normal rules and is pretty unfair to you as SCUM but I can 't control that beyond just reporting the facts.
Let's also note that with 3 unclaimed roles, I am claiming COP with a WATCHER bonus. What are the odds that there would be a COP or a WATCHER to CC me if I weren't?
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@Earth
@WaterPhoenix
claim now or say why not
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crossed vs. coal :MEDICINE: Would you like to try some turmeric?
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Ragnar vs. semperfortis:HISTORY:THBT OJ was FRAMED
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RationalMadman vs. MisterChris: POLITICS: This HOUSE would KiLL the FiLiBUSTER
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TheUnderdog vs. Trent0405:GEOPOLITICS DEBATE: RESOLVED:The USFG should invade Canada at once
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wylted vs. imabench: FROZEN DEBATE: THBT Elsa and Anna should be burned at the stake
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oh shit I guess we'd better get on with that then
I am hoping for a HISTORY topic.
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@WaterPhoenix
-> @oromagilast dp you asked everyone if they were a dem or repub but not me, why
You've been so inactive I forgot you existed.
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Oddly and unexpectedly, the MOD sent me a note in the night that says that if Supa gets lynched during the DP, I get a 1 X WATCHER bonus.
- This feels to me like totally out-of-whack MOD confirmation of Supa's guilt.
- Even tho pie never says Supa=SCUM, why would any MOD reward TOWN for lynching TOWN?
- Since this reads as a rather outrageously OP thing for me to be claiming, I am going to full claim now and just lay it on the table for TOWN's perusal.
- I am Sen Dick Durbin, Democrat from Illinois
- I claimed this in my first post of the game
- https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5850/post-links/254865
- DRUID Nick B anagrams to Dick Durbin
- Because I am Chair of the Senate Judiciary, I am...
- I am ODD night COP
- I claimed this in my first post of the game
- https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5850/post-links/254865
- qWAhGwAACAAJ is the uid for a book on on google books called "Strange Police"
- https://books.google.com/books?id=qWAhGwAACAAJ&newbks=0&hl=en
- Strange Police= ODD COP
- On DP1 on Cop'd speed because I'm always most worried that speed is scum.
- Speed cop'd inno
- That is the one unspoken reason I think speed is TOWN
So I am committed to lynching Supa today, seeing as how the MOD is actually dangling bait over his head.
- If we lynch Supa tonight I will be COP + WATCHER tonight (I guess. I don't actually know if I can use both at once) That makes me most likely target tonight. I will be very interested to see if GP can or will protect me
VTL Supadudz
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oromagi [D]
X>lunatic Cory Booker[D] 1XGLADIATOR
X>whiteflame John Cornyn [R] 1XJUDGE
TOWN
speedrace Gary Peters [D] TRACKER
chris PACIFIST
earth Ben Cardin[D]
waterphoenix [R] 1X
greyparrot Susan Collins[R] PROTECC
supadudz Josh Hawley{R} 1XDETECTIVE
SCUM
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@WaterPhoenix
--> @oromagiwhy didn't you ask if i was a democrat or republican by the way
- why are you waiting to be asked individually?
- why is that my job?
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oromagi [D]
X>lunatic Cory Booker[D] 1XGLADIATOR
TOWN
speedrace Gary Peters [D] TRACKER
greyparrot Susan Collins[R] PROTECC
chris PACIFIST
earth Ben Cardin[D]
waterphoenix [D] 1X
whiteflame [R]
supadudz Josh Hawley{R} 1XDETECTIVE
SCUM
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@Earth
@whiteflame
@MisterChris
Can we get Democrat or Republican claims from each of you?
Earth, Whiteflame-
Sup claims to have investigated a 1X. Can you confirm or deny 1X in your role?
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oromagi [D]
X>lunatic Cory Booker[D] 1XGLADIATOR
TOWN
speedrace Gary Peters [D] TRACKER
greyparrot Susan Collins[R] PROTECC
chris PACIFIST
earth Ben Cardin[D]
waterphoenix 1X
whiteflame
supadudz Josh Hawley{R} 1XDETECTIVE
SCUM
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@WaterPhoenix
-> @oromagi
1XROLE COP seems underpowered for a role madness game
wait is this a role madness game if so i'm definitely voting supa
DP1 POST#1
Per the Senate Rules the order of today’s business is a role madness mafia game.
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@Speedrace
Was at a BP tourney, sorry for delay
beer pong?
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I note Republican vs. Democrat is one possible theme split.
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oromagi [D]
X>lunatic Cory Booker[D] 1XGLADIATOR
TOWN
speedrace Gary Peters [D}
greyparrot Susan Collins[R] PROTECC
chris PACIFIST
earth Ben Cardin[D]
waterphoenix 1X
whiteflame
supadudz Josh Hawley{R} 1XDETECTIVE
SCUM
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@Vader
--> @whiteflameI find it extremely ironic how everyone said to pressure Speed and I but are focusing on me for some reason with oromagi leading that charge. Oro is going from passive to now a somewhat aggressive tone?
- that's is not what ironic means
- I have already explained that I have at least one good, unspoken reason to believe speed is town. I have zero reasons to believe you are TOWN but also several reason to believe you are scum which I have explained.
- I am more suspicious of whiteflame for not pressuring you.
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@Earth
Sorry for not being active. I have been sick lately.
You can make up for it by convincing us you are town.
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I am also getting vax'd today but it involves a couple of hours of driving.
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@Vader
--> @oromagi
You said you have a scum read on me, but never put a vote and only put votes if you are confident. Why did you not put a vote when the DP started when you were "confident." It's not a contradiction
As we can see, most of my sus comes from your role/character claim. I did not say I was "confident" last night, that is your invention. My actual words were "would probably agree to vtl supa."
Refused isn't the right word
Your word, not mine:
So are you saying I shouldn't defend myself from being lynched?
No, I'm saying you defend yourself more vigorously. I suppose you correctly assess that you have less to lose when you are town.
I emote just as much as town
are you admitting you are not town?
Will not out any result until said person claims there role. Revealing their role is anti town
Not if you are getting lynched today. If you are TOWN, you will want us to have your information whether you survive or not.
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I understand Blow's objective and urgency but I don't think it is so obvious that such a plan will achieve that objective. Relocation from Chicago to Mississippi requires some major socioeconomic sacrifice that might do more harm than good to black leverage overall. New Orleans, Atlanta and Baltimore are the only cities in Blow's subset I'd really consider moving to and of these only Atlanta has enough tech industry to be a realistic move. That's not a lot of choices to appeal to the black bourgeoisie.
Besides, the fact that 30% of Americans control 70% of the Senate seems pretty unsustainable. That 30% is a major suck on the US economy. We are already seeing major increases in rural ideologies that have no relationship to the agenda of the majority of Americans and I'm not sure we can afford 20 years of increasing discord. I think a far more achievable and immediate plan would be to redraw the states. Just as a working model, I'd consider keeping the number of states at 50 but I'd create 4 new states and consolidate 4 old states.
New States:
- DC
- Caribbean Islands (PR and VI)
- Pacific Territories (Alaska, Hawaii, Samoa, Guam, etc)
- All Native American reservations
Old States
- Alaska would become part of Pacific State
- Hawaii would become part of Pacific State
- North Dakota and South Dakota would become one state, The Dakotas
- Rhode Island and Connecticut would become one state called Connecticut and Rhode Island
- New Hampshire and Vermont would become one state called New England
We may well be approaching a crisis in sustainability in rural America anyway. It used to be that we needed many people living in rural farms to grow food but that's not really true anymore. Less than 2/10th's of 1% of all Americans grow our food these days and we could do the job with far fewer. Rural homes and small towns soak up far outsized expenses in terms of delivering power, water, internet and particularly rebuilding after increasing floods, fires, hurricanes, tornados, etc I think all Americans can and should enjoy the great American outdoors but that doesn't mean we have to prop up residents in increasingly unsustainable and expensive geographies. If rural Americans were simply made to bear the expense of rural living (insurance, infrastructure, rebuilding), city living would instantly (more honestly) prove to be cheaper than country living.
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By Charles M. Blow | The New York Times
| Feb. 1, 2021, 7:00 a.m.
It is easy to believe that Black power and influence is growing in America, and that the logical conclusion is that a set of policies favoring the Black community in America — a so-called Black agenda — is growing more likely as the years pass and the percentage of nonwhite Americans rises.
This election alone, the vice president is a first in several ways — not only the first Black person in that role, but also the first woman and the first person of South Asian descent.
Black people played an indispensable role in key states to deliver the White House to Joe Biden and control of the Senate to Democrats, including in Georgia, where Black voters were the majority of the coalition that turned the state blue.
Furthermore, an analysis by the Pew Research Center pointed out Thursday:
“About a quarter of voting members (23 percent) of the U.S. House of Representatives and Senate are racial or ethnic minorities, making the 117th Congress the most racially and ethnically diverse in history. There has been a long-running trend toward higher numbers of nonwhite lawmakers on Capitol Hill: This is the sixth Congress to break the record set by the one before it.”
Pew reported that “13 percent of House members are Black, about equal to the share of Black Americans.”
But some of what we see may be illusory and in some ways the passing of a Black agenda may become harder, not easier. The window that could allow the passage of such a slate of policies may be closing as we speak.
As Norman Ornstein tweeted in 2018:
“I want to repeat a statistic I use in every talk: By 2040 or so, 70 percent of Americans will live in 15 states. Meaning 30 percent will choose 70 senators. And the 30 percent will be older, whiter, more rural, more male than the 70 percent. Unsettling to say the least.”
The Washington Post checked this claim and found that “In broad strokes, Ornstein is correct.”
The Post continued:
“The Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service of the University of Virginia analyzed Census Bureau population projections to estimate each state’s likely population in 2040, including the expected breakdown of the population by age and gender. Although that data was released in 2016, before the bureau revised its estimates for the coming decades, we see that, in fact, the population will be heavily centered in a few states.”
If you think it has been hard to get this Senate to embrace policies like reparations or voting rights that stand to benefit Black people, imagine how much harder that task will be before a Senate that continues to tilt toward smaller states.
This is why I think Mitch McConnell was playing sly when he demanded that Democrats maintain the Senate filibuster as part of a power-sharing agreement.
He tweeted Tuesday:
“Today, I made clear that if Democrats ever attack the key Senate rules, it would drain the consent and comity out of the institution. A scorched-earth Senate would hardly be able to function. It wouldn’t be a progressive’s dream. It would be a nightmare. I guarantee it.”
He then dropped that objection without getting any concession in return. I believe he is playing a Brer Rabbit-style trick with the ultimate goal of creating a nightmare scenario for progressives. While abandoning the filibuster would indeed be advantageous to liberals in the short term, in the long term — when it may become harder and harder for Democrats to maintain control of the chamber — it could be a disaster, allowing the minority in America to say what becomes law and which judges get confirmed.
Republicans will look back on these days and say that we begged the Democrats to keep the filibuster, but they wouldn’t listen. Now that Democrats have gotten rid of it, we Republicans will play the game by the rules they established: “Scorched-earth.”
Furthermore, a Pew demographic analysis has found that by 2065, Hispanics in America will nearly double the population of Black people, and Asians will overtake Black people as the nation’s second-largest minority.
Each of these groups have their own specific legislative agendas. How high on the list of priorities will be the agenda of the third-largest minority group at that point?
Furthermore, if Hispanics and Asians vote then the way they vote now — a third of each group voted for Trump — their combined votes for Republicans will eclipse the Black vote for Democrats.
In a book I published Tuesday, “The Devil You Know: A Black Power Manifesto,” I argue that it is urgent that Black people consolidate political power now. In my view, the acquisition of Black power has reached a level of urgency rivaling that of the climate crisis: Immediate action is required, but it may very well already be too late.
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@TheUnderdog
If America is going to give weapons to Saudi Arabia for their genocide in Yemen, we shouldn't be telling other places on how to have human rights.
Let's be sure to note that Joe Biden's administration ended all arms sales to Saudi Arabia in late January and withdrew US support for Saudi Arabia in Yemen in February. Saudi Arabia and the Houthis entered into peace negotiations in Oman a week later.
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I never really considered law although more than one lawyer has told me I should have been a lawyer and in hindsight I might have enjoyed the profession so long as I avoided most courtrooms and judges.
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- I meant to add that I don't like Supa's "1X" claim.
- 1XROLE COP seems underpowered for a role madness game
- seems to be trying to match lunatic's 1XGLADIATOR but that role would be crazy unbalanced if unlimited
- I'd more expect and EVEN/ODD kind of dynamic for this game
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Oromagi is a slight FoS. He seems to be extremely passive with his actions and despite saying I’m the better option, refused to put the vote on me.I’m thinking that he has some OP role? Idk. I don’t think I’ve heard oromagi want to VTNL so early either which draws sus.
Let's note that these two arguments apply contradictory standards.
- DP1=Oro is sus for voting decisively too early
- DP2=Oro is sus for not voting decisively early
Supa complains that I "refused to put a vote on" him last night. Perhaps we can overcome his concerns regarding my passivity.
I like a Supa lynch because
- last, reluctant vote on lunatic. I agree with MC's analysis that at least one scum was likely in the four lunatic lynchers.
- GP hasn't really claimed any role but we might be able to confirm "PROTECC"
- MC volunteered an anti-town role early and tested successfully
- I have one unspoken non-definitive reason to expect that speed is town
- Sup claims Josh Hawley who was a mostly below the radar as a Senator until he took a leadership role in the failed fascist coup of Jan 6. As former friend and Obi-Wan John Danforth now describes Hawley, "the worst mistake I ever made in my life." After Cruz, the likeliest scum character claim in the Senate.
- Sup claims DETECTIVE, which on the drafter lists is just ROLE COP.
- mafiascumwiki advises: "Role Cops are actually a somewhat popular Mafia role, but have also been seen aligned with the Town."
- Which suggest ROLE COPs are more often scum.
- At least, the role is not exculpatory
- Sup's play is more consistent with his scum play generally and with his role as GODFATHER last game
- Promises inactivity but is more active than most and
- invests heavily in his own defense
- Sup tends to emote more as scum, "What a fucking stupid lynch train" etc.
I would like to know Supa's rolecop results but for the time being, Sup is my pick for lynch.
VTL Supadudz
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oromagi
X>lunatic Cory Booker 1XGLADIATOR
TOWN
speedrace
greyparrot Susan Collins PROTECC
chris PACIFIST
earth
waterphoenix
whiteflame
supadudz Josh Hawley 1XDETECTIVE
SCUM
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@Vader
I’d be on Chris if he didn’t get town confirmed*
I would not consider Chris town confirmed. I think we've confirmed that he can't hammer himself and this corroborates but does not prove his PACIFICST claim.
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oromagi
X>lunatic Cory Booker 1XGLADIATOR
TOWN
speedrace
greyparrot Susan Collins PROTECC
chris PACIFIST
earth
waterphoenix
whiteflame
supadudz Josh Hawley DETECTIVE
SCUM
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Speed and Supa are the prime suspects.
Of these, I think supa is more likely scum. I agree that the likelihood is high that at least one scum was on lunatic's near lynch. I have at least one reason to put GP, MC, and speed on the town side of ledger but not supa. I would probably agree to vtl supa.
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@MisterChris
--> @Greyparrotwhat happened in the mime game?
nothing that Supa might have cause to regret. He took it to the final round and lunatic basically tossed a coin. Nothing to be pissed about.
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oromagi
X>lunatic Cory Booker 1XGLADIATOR
TOWN
speedrace
greyparrot Susan Collins PROTECC
chris PACIFIST
earth
waterphoenix
whiteflame
supadudz
SCUM
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@Vader
are we going to play 3 games at once?
/in
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@whiteflame
You're normally more thorough than this
You obviously don't know me that well. I make mistakes like that all the time .
The more sus thing here is how you are injecting feeling and motivation without warrant.
"dismissive" is your narrative
"false" is your story
OK, I missed one player's name on the second page of the game.
What is your warrant for twisting that into "dismissive" "odd" and "false"?
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@Earth
@whiteflame
posted your VTNL before Earth had posted anything. Everyone hadn't checked in yet.
This is accurate. I was mistaken in thinking everybody had checked in.
this seems dismissive of his input and is just straight up a wrong characterization
As everyone knows, I note players that haven't checked in as "AWoL" in my reads list. You took the time to edit my reads list but failed to note my oversight. Doesn't your oversight of my oversight likewise implicate you as "dismissive of Earth's input"?
Earth: no slight was intended by my failing to note your absence.
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