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@HistoryBuff
From Hamas' perspective, which I am not saying is the correct one, they are using the only resources available to them to try to get their people freedom from Israeli slavery
Not to be disrespectful but I stopped reading here because that is bullshit. That is not the goal of Hamas and it is very disrespectful to actual slaves to make that comparison.
Not only is it not the only resource.
Leaders of Hamas have stated that they would be okay with the eradication of all of their people if it meant an end to Israel and the success and the spread of Islam.
They do not want peace and are willing to kill as many civilians as they can to get their way, according to themselves.
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@HistoryBuff
if you treat people like animals for long enough, they are going to fight back. Some of them are going to use horrible, inhuman tactics. I'm not excusing terrorism. I'm explaining how Israel helps cause it.
You just take whatever Aljazeera feeds you without critical thought. Palestinian people are not treated like animals. They are actually more successful in Israel than non palestinians and over represented in medicine, and law among other professions. They have equal voting rights and there are elected politicians who are palestinian.
In the Gaza region billions have been spent on aid only for Hamas to steal it. If they are being treated like animals it is by the terrorist organization using them as human shields.
Let's imagine your scenario is correct and the Israeli government did treat them like animals. What then would excuse Hamas targeting the very civilians most likely to fight against that injustice, meaning liberals and leftists at a music festival? 80% of the dead israeli bodies even children have been found to have been tortured prior to death?
And why are you pissing on Palestinians by equating them and conflating them with Hamas?
lol, hamas isn't bombing them. Israel is. You can't say I support those people by supporting their murder.
Yeah I guess Israel is supposed to take no action against a military who will target them and kill their civilians over and over. When people are using human shields it doesn't mean that the ideal of justice or national security goes out the window. It just means that some of your effort to spare civilians will be in vain and that idiots will blame you instead of the people using them as human shields.
no, the expectation is to actually negotiate and resolve the conflict. Instead they make it worse year after year.
peace deal after peacedeal has been proposed. Once there was even a peace deal offering palestinians most of Israel, but it was rejected by the extremists that run their area because they want an extermination of Jews. This is their own words.
whataboutism is when someone distracts with something unrelated or tangentially related. Like when a republican does something corrupt and you point to a democrat doing something corrupt to change the subject. Explaining that Israel's long history of mistreating the palestinians has been a main cause of the current conflict isn't whataboutism. It is very much on topic.
"supporting terrorists by pointing out the civilians they targeted live in a country that sometimes created bad policies isn't whataboutism, I am just saying whatabout what Israel did that is a type of terrorism also?"
You said you wanted to use nuclear weapons on any country who tried to stop Israel from mass deporting all the palestinians
SO what? It's a bit of hyperbole. No matter what you do, it will be an imperfect solution? If a country has the military might to impose a solution that is the least bad solution on another country, so what. it's not a big deal, and we were discussing how we could get a more safer world with the threat of your nuclear capabilities, by putting palestinians and Israeli's in a better position, and this was only talked about in the context of one of a million solutions and of course many of the solutions can be partial and mixed.
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What are you talking about comrade? Have you found a husband yet?
still working on it
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Roosevelt votes for leftists who openly promote grooming and meanwhile criticizes somebody for not knowing some students they interacted with were sexually assaulted.
What we can take from this is that leftists are liars. They will criticize some republican politician for being gay and in the next breath act outraged that somebody voted against gay marraige
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
! Albeit, Miss Tradesecret, Sidewalker and Critical-Tim can't move a mountain even a couple of inches! LOL!
Sad, they need Jesus
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@Stephen
And Arafat had no intention of keeping the Oslo Accord signed in 1993
The Oslo accord looks to have been a shit show tbh and I might take some time to learn more about it soon.
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The war between civilized people and Barbarians at the Gates
As I write this here now, I have just discovered new photos of Hamas recruiting child soldiers and using them. Israel is warning civilians to leave targeted areas, but Hamas has blocked the exit for these people and sent messages telling them to ignore the warnings, because they want these people as meat shields and see their deaths as valuable propaganda, even more valuable than their individual lives.
The people here saying #freepalestine or claiming to support Palestinians are actually supporting Hamas and criticizing attempts of Israel at self defense. A necessary self defense because their existence is at stake.
Anyone who wants to read the Hamas charter and it's goal to oppose all peace deals and settle for nothing less than the eradication of every Jew on the planet. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9984-the-hamas-charter
The Jewish People and Israel
This planet is worse off without the industriousness, and intelligence of the Jewish people. They make up the majority of nobel prizes, were the biggest force behind the Covid19 vaccines that saved us from years of isolation and saved countless lives. The Germans in fact would have probably won WW2 if they were nicer to the Jews, as they also saved the Western world with their creation of the Atomic bomb. Israel is so rich and prosperous because of how great the Jewish people are. They have created a tech hub even greater than Silicon valley and have had financial success despite being in a desert essentially.
Israel is surrounded by enemies and attacked constantly, and yet despite the constant outside threats that would turn most nations into a police state, they have a Democracy and a great deal of freedom. They are not perfect, far from it. A lot of people use their imperfections on this site to justify the slaughter of civilians by Hamas. For example the civilians at the music festival. I will add that these festivals are not a big thing for conservative people. So they targeted the most likely civilians in Israel to support more rights and freedoms for the people in the Gaza strip and the west bank.
As much as it pains me to say this. Jews are the salt of this Earth, and I am deeply regretful of all the fun I had in the past pushing antisemitic conspiracy theories that recently have been adopted by ideologues on the left. I guess horse shoe theory is correct.
Hamas is willing for every Palestinian to die if it means Israel loses
If Hamas cared about the Palestinians they wouldn't have attacked Israel or they at least would have waited. Hamas immediately after targeting Israel with terrorist attacks proceeded to ask for a peace deal. Their strategy prior to this attack as proven by Israeli spies was to feign like they wanted peace and was merely concerned with improving the economy of Gaza. You see, Hamas just uses peace to prepare for the next attack, it isn't their main goal. We can just perform a mental exercise to see which side wants peace. We all know that tomorrow if every nation hostile to Israel threw every weapon it had in the trash, they would still be safe from an attack from Israel. However if Israel were to lay down it's weapons, every single Jew and loyal Palestinian in Israel would be dead the next day.
Think about this. Hamas attacked an enemy that had control of their water supply, that has control of their electric grid and who ensures they have food and who has vastly superior fire power. That doesn't sound like an attack by Hamas would be good for residents of Gaza. It's because they actually don't give a shit about their people. This is pretty common with radical Islam. The leader of Iran once said that if the destruction of Iran lead to the annihilation of Jews and the success of an Islamic state than it would have been worth it. Thank God that Stuxnet destroyed their nuclear capabilities.
Its terrible that the Stalingrad approach to attacking Hamas is the most humane. It's a terrible option, but it leaves less civilians dead than by eradicating Hamas in any other way. They are dug in and are using their own people as hostages, hopefully a safe zone can be created soon and ways to funnel civilians out of dangerous territories can be improved, but currently hamas is asking residents to stay and closing down exit routes. This isn't an organization that cares about the well being of Gaza residents.
The #FreePalestine people
The free Palestine movement is more successful now than it should be. The reason is simple. There is a massive propaganda campaign on the west that is very successful. If any of you are on tiktok, X or youtube a lot. Al jazeera now AJ+ has been there targeting leftists to support Palestine. They are creating stories criticizing the west for being anti immigration for example but also they are pretending to be woke on topics like homosexuality, transgenderism etc. Meanwhile they are the propaganda arm of radical Islam who would stone a homosexual to death for being in love with a person of the same sex. Billions are funneled from state actors to AJ+ to propagandize Americans because they know we do have influence over what our elected leaders do.
Why Leftists are Vulnerable to this type of Propaganda
There is a simple reason leftists are vulnerable to this type of propaganda. There has been this mindset in the left that is often exposed once you can see contradictions within it that shouldn't exist unless the mindset was the main engine behind their beliefs.
The left mostly thinks that anything big and powerful is an oppressor by default. Anybody weak is oppressed by default. Just examine the following things
Black people have a weaker position in society and are therefore oppressed, which makes white people their oppressors. Even when a black person is committing huge crimes they are only doing so because they are oppressed and a product of their environment. Meanwhile the police, a powerful institution is always the bad guy in any interaction where any incident where a black person gets shot. Yes police shoot more white people, even unarmed white people than black people, but this is never brought up because it is oppressor on oppressor violence so justified.
The mostly peaceful BLM riots. Looting was excused because the people looting were oppressed. This is how complicated their underlying thought process is. If a group is weaker they are oppressed, and if they are oppressed it justifies any action they want to take. Loot a store, no big deal you are oppressed. Kill 250 people at a music festival, that is okay because you are oppressed.
This is what first shocked me about the antisemitism of the left. I realize now they moved from being pro Israel to anti Israel because their view of Israel changed from seeing them as weak to seeing them as strong, thus they automatically become an oppressor. Ignore the fact that Palestinians are actually over represented in fields like medicine in Israel.
What Trump Republicans Get wrong about Israel
There is honestly less antisemitism on the right than the less now, despite the further right you get the more you see. Trump isn't so much a right winger as he is a populist though. Here is something a lot of liberals get wrong about Trump voters though. They don't agree with Trump on a lot of things. Trump is pro mask and very pro vaccine though he pushed against federal mandates around these issues, meanwhile his voters are antagonistic towards masks and vaccines. Trump is also very pro Israel and likely would support American military intervention in Israel, meanwhile his voters would prefer isolationism in this instance. Even Ukraine there is a split where his voters want to stop supporting the Ukraine, this is why Trump's messaging is meant to appeal to them. Trump when he mentions negotiating with Russia and Ukraine to end that war, he really means threatening Putin but being willing to make some concessions to get a favorable negotiation outcome. So keep that in mind while I criticize the average Trump voter who wants the U.S. out of foreign entanglements.
This is not like the Ukraine where the benefits to the U.S. are harder to see because of a complicated foreign policy and bad advertisement of how important the lands in Ukraine are to the global order due to trade routes, oil etc. Israel is being targeted because it is the most Jewish country on the planet. The United States has the second biggest Jewish population on the planet. If Israel is ever defeated, there will be more 9-11 type events and they will occur with regular frequency. The success of Israel is of utmost importance to the United States.
If Israel ever falls than the United States is next. Israel will also use the Samson option if they are destroyed. That is their right and it means nukes will overwhelm Moscow and likely set off a chain reaction where Russia fires nukes in every direction because they won't just assume it came from Israel. A nuke heading towards the United States is very much a national security concern.
George Bush was not wrong that a war in Iraq would create a lightning rod for radical Islam and keep attacks from happening elsewhere. Israel is also that lightning rod. If we can keep the terrorists occupied by Israel, by ensuring the security of Israel, than the United States can continue to have a lightning rod for Jihadis not situated in it's vulnerable areas.
What is this about
I quit. This site is a cesspool of filth and idiots. It's just not a good use of my time to be here. I can debate people who are more intelligent elsewhere. People who can actually challenge my beliefs well enough to change them. I can go elsewhere and see less support for terrorist organizations. It's where I draw the line. Make an argument for whatever controversial position you want, but it goes beyond that here. You guys are literally apologists for Hamas. If you guys want to straighten out and be blessed by my presence again, maybe elect me to the HOF or presidency and I will try again for like 3 months to see where we are. Other than that I am most likely done with the site. I do see space for a new debate site which can maybe give an IQ test to people before they are allowed to join or something like that, but I am most likely done with DART permanently. You can all go fuck yourselves TBH.
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@HistoryBuff
you hadn't also accused me of anti-semitism for pointing out that Israel has also done horrible, horrible things.
We have all done horrible things, stop making excuses for terrorism.
And any support for innocent people being bombed by Israel is anti-semitism.
I support those people as well, which is why I place the blame for that on Hamas, where it belongs. I guess the expectation is for israelr to surrender and be genocide rather than do the ugly things need to make them and the people of Gaza safe from terrorists.
It might also be more convincing if you hadn't said this.
Sorry that nations that supported genocide of Jews will need to face some harsh circumstances in th name of justice if they aren't willing to make amends.
All of your whataboutism aside, it is evil to support this shit.
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@oromagi
Can I ban you first for alting like a serial killer?
I might be gone soon anyway. This is very concerning the whole thing.
I never thought that the sort of anti semitism I am seeing, the support for terrorism would happen here. It's useful to take controversial positions but more than half of this site supports hamas under the guise of supporting the Palestinians whose lives they have destroyed and lives they will destroy.
I am a deeply empathetic person to my own detriment and the horror that these Israelis and Palestinians are facing at the hands of Hamas has me choking back tears.
I am a bitch, whatever.
I really want to do something for these suffering people but thinking of them and my inability to do shit has me feeling completely worthless.
Worse yet the type of attitude that allowed this tragedy to happen to start with has been magnified lately or at least has become more visible.
I think a lot of my world view has been shattered as a result of this whole thing as well.
The Jews have no control over this narrative emerging, and I kind of wish my prejudices were correct because they really should be controlling this narrative. Unless of course the jews controlling this narrative are too naive to realize how suicidal that action is.
Everyday I am seeing new videos of what has and is happening. It's deeply heart breaking stuff, and you have people blaming the victim. It's not the fault of Israelis that these terrorists who only care about genocide started destroying, murdering and torturing so many civilians, children, the elderly, women. I know any life lost is a tragedy but there is just something about when it is women and children that make it so much worse.
You guys can have this site. It is a shithole. There is room for controversial opinions. There is room even for debate on this whole Israel thing. We can debate whether biden's money towards Iran was a significant cause of this or whether an Israel version of the 2nd amendment could have saved lives here. We even have room to debate the ethics of Israeli settlers in the Westbank or treatment of Palestinians in general.
Yet we don't have those debates. We have debates of people trying to use circular logic to defend Hamas. We have idiots looking to conflate hamas with Palestinians so they can feel better about supporting terrorists.
I think more than half this site legitimately supports Hamas right now. It's fucking sick, and I certainly didn't expect to see it from the people I have seen it come from, which makes it even more disappointing.
I saw a lot of propaganda from al Jazeera and the middle east eye, the weeks preceeding his attack directed at me, but I thought there was no way it was having an effect, but here we are. Apparently all of the propaganda from radical Islam towards leftists has worked. The same people that would burn and torture homosexuals alive is currently being openly supported by gay rights organizations with Palestinian flags on their websites to thinly veil the actual support of hamas.
Whatever becomes of the West because of the open support of terrorism and general degenerate behavior, is well deserved. I wish I could ethically kill myself so I don't have to see how bad things are going to get, but I have an obligation to my family. Death will be much kinder than to experience what is coming for all of u.
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Actual babies being held hostage while parents are dead in the next room.
https://youtu.be/dzsZvP7ahsM?si=jJ7hyxPpEjsjoKz5
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@FLRW
Who do you think is more powerful, Yahweh or Allah ?
Well since they are both Abraham's religions, this would be a tie
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@FLRW
Remember that Trump said that Hezbollah was very smart
What does his analysis of their leadership's IQ thus? have anything to do with this?
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It sucks that children are dying due to the fact hamas is holding every resident of Gaza hostage. Hopefully hamas will do an unconditional surrender to spare lives
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@FLRW
See this thread for more context https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9981-videos-and-photos-of-the-original-hamas-attack-that-preceded-israels-self-defense
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@oromagi
Can you ban this idiot for openly supporting terrorism?
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"The vanquishing of the enemy in Gaza does not mean that this stage has ended. We still have Jerusalem and the pure West Bank. We will not rest until we liberate all our land, all our Palestine. We do not distinguish between what was occupied in the 1940s and what was occupied in the 1960s. Our Jihad continues, and we still have a long way to go. We will continue until the very last usurper is driven out of our land."
Mushir al-Masri, Hamas spokesman, at a rally in Gaza, Al-Jazeera TV on September 16, 2005, MEMRI
"We stand here on our liberated land, near the armistice borders. We remember when Sharon said that Netzarim is like Tel Aviv. Hamas has said, via the lion of Palestine [Rantisi], that Gaza is like Tel Aviv. The promise that has been fulfilled and will be fulfilled in the future, oh Sharon, is the promise of Allah, and the promise of Hamas. Behold, Palestine is being liberated, Allah willing..."
"We have come here in multitudes to proclaim that Hirbiya and Ashkelon will be taken by the mujahideen. We have come here to say that the weapons of the resistance that you see here will remain, Allah willing, so that we can liberate Palestine – all of Palestine – from the Sea to the River, whether they like it or not."
Hamas leader Dr. Abdel Aziz Rantisi (killed in April 2004) at a rally in Gaza, March 28, 2004, AP
"We knew that Bush is the enemy of God, the enemy of Islam and Muslims. America declared war against God. Sharon declared war against God, and God declared war against America, Bush and Sharon."
Hamas statement issued after the assassination of Sheik Ahmed Yassin, Chicago Tribune, March 25, 2004
"The Zionists didn't carry out their operation without getting the consent of the terrorist American Administration, and it must take responsibility for this crime. All the Muslims of the world will be honored to join in on the retaliation for this crime."
Musa Abu Marzuq, Hamas leader, interview with Reuters, March 25, 2004
"We have never targeted an American target or American interests despite its hostility. Until now we did not. I am talking about now. In the future, God knows."
Hamas leader, Mahmoud Zahar, at funeral of Reem Raiyshi, who murdered 4 people, January 15, 2004, AP
"She [first Hamas woman suicide bomber] is not going to be the last because the march of resistance will continue until the Islamic flag is raised, not only over the minarets of Jerusalem, but over the whole universe."
Abdel Aziz Rantisi, Hamas leader, June 10, 2003, interview with Al-Jazeera, Jerusalem Post
"By God, we will not leave one Jew in Palestine. We will fight them with all the strength we have. This is our land, not the Jews..."
"You will have no security except outside the homeland Palestine.... We have Allah on our side, and we have the sons of the Arab and Islamic nation on our side."
Sheik Ahmed Yassin (killed in March 2004), January 30, 2003, Teheran Times
"America is implementing Zionist Israeli policy to serve the Zionist project in Palestine. The battle America is undertaking is designed to allow Israel to remain in the Palestinian homeland...."
"Zionist Israeli and Jewish policy is to strike every power emerging in the Arab and Muslim world… Any country that develops power threatening to this entity (Israel), they want to smash it."
Sheik Ahmed Yassin, interview with the Muslim website Alskifa, January 10, 2003, translated by Israel Defense Forces
"Suicide attacks and jihad reinforce national unity in the ranks....Our voice is one of struggle, of jihad and of suicide....Iraq could win if it equipped its citizens with explosive belts and turned them into human bombs."
Sheik Ahmed Yassin, interview with Australian Muslim youth magazine, Nida'ul Islam, June/ July 2002
"We reject this US domination and this frantic war. From our side, we concentrate on striking blows to it here in Palestine, with the aim of ironing out the Jewish entity in Palestine, which is the cause of trouble in the world..."
"America... always works in favor of the existence of the Israeli entity... This is mainly due to the Zionist-Christian conviction and the 70 million Americans who follow the Protestant creed, which is in favor of Jews against the Muslims. The same applies to most of Britain's population..."
"Because the Israeli and American enemies are ravaging the earth; they do not believe in anything besides power. The Ummah must adopt the principle of Jihad and fighting the enemies."
Sheik Ahmed Yassin, interview, Palestine-info, March 2001, Early Hamas communiqués (distributed by Islamic Association for Palestine)
"The Movement within two months [after the intifada broke] was able to launch qualitative operations that shook the world… there are qualitative Jihad operations such as those in Natanya and Khadera. We are proud of such operations and the next days will witness better and bigger ones...."
"I say that the final battle will result in our victory and that this land will reject this enemy similar to its predecessors..."
"It is not a must that it would be in 2027 for it could be five years earlier or ten years later. The important thing is that the equation revolves round 2027 and the Hebrew state would end Insha'allah [God willing]."
Hamas communiqué, March 9, 1989, translated and distributed in the U.S. by the Islamic Association for Palestine
"Come to jihad, come to jihad, come to martyrdom..."
"Those thirsty for Jihad all over the world. For the sake of Allah. For liberating the land of Palestine and Jerusalem...."
"We declared and continue to declare now, that a Jew is a Jew... [do not trust them when they say they want peace because they act only] to serve their religion and their people."
Hamas communiqué, October 5, 1988, translated and distributed in the U.S. by the Islamic Association for Palestine
"The Jews: killed the prophets…slaughtered the innocent…imprisoned our pious... NO PEACE WITH THE MURDERERS."
Hamas communiqué, September 8, 1988, translated and distributed in the U.S. by the Islamic Association for Palestine
"The Nazi Jews tried different methods..."
"Let everyone know that Hamas... is only against Jews and those twisted in their manner... it realizes the Jews' methods in trying to cause hostility and friction between people..."
"We should lend punches to the Jews wherever possible [to commemorate Muhammad's defeat of one of the Jewish tribes of Arabia]."
Anti-Defamation League
https://www.adl.org/resources/news/hamas-their-own-words
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Words of hamas directly
"Whoever is killed by a Jew receives the reward of two martyrs, because the very thing that the Jews did to the prophets was done to him.
"The Jews are the most despicable and contemptible nation to crawl upon the face of the Earth, because they have displayed hostility to Allah.
"Allah will kill the Jews in the hell of the world to come, just like they killed the believers in the hell of this world.
"The Jews kill anyone who believes in Allah. They do not want to see any peace whatsoever on Earth."
Statement from Hamas Ministry of Refugee Affairs on U.N. Relief and Works Agency plan to include Holocaust education in the curriculum taught Palestinian refugees, February 28, 2011
“We cannot agree to a programme that is intended to poison the minds of our children…Holocaust studies in refugee camps is a contemptible plot and serves the Zionist entity with a goal of creating a reality and telling stories in order to justify acts of slaughter against the Palestinian people."
Hamas official Halil Al-Hayya, Al-Hayat newspaper, November 11, 2010
"The lie of the Zionist Holocaust crumbles with countless holocausts committed by the Zionists in Beit Hanoun, al-Fakhoura school and other places in Palestine."
"Palestine is Islamic, and not an Islamic emirate, from the river to the sea, that unites the Palestinians. Jews have no right in it, with the exception of those who lived on the land of Palestine before World War I."
Hamas leader Mahmoud Al-Zahhar, Future News TV, June 15, 2010, Source: MEMRI.org
"We have liberated Gaza, but have we recognized Israel? Have we given up our lands occupied in 1948? We demand the liberation of the West Bank, and the establishment of a state in the West Bank and Gaza, with Jerusalem as its capital – but without recognizing [Israel]. This is the key – without recognizing the Israeli enemy on a single inch of land...
"Our plan for this stage is to liberate any inch of Palestinian land, and to establish a state on it. Our ultimate plan is [to have] Palestine in its entirety. I say this loud and clear so that nobody will accuse me of employing political tactics. We will not recognize the Israeli enemy. "
Hamas leader Mahmoud a-Zahar, Al-Aqsa TV, January 4, 2009
Hamas "must lay the foundation for a tomorrow without Zionists."
Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, December 28, 2008
"We are stronger, and more determined, and have more will, and we will hold onto our rights even more than before."
Hamas leader-in-exile Khaled Mashaal, Damascus, Syria, December 27, 2008
"This is the time for the third uprising... Resistance will continue through suicide missions."
Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum, calling for a resumption of suicide attacks on Gaza radio, December 27, 2008
"Hamas will continue the resistance until the last drop of blood."
Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum, December 25, 2008
"Israel will pay a heavy price for its crimes against the Palestinians. Israel's actions enhance our determination to pursue the path of resistance through all means available. … [Israel is] committing a holocaust as the whole world watches and doesn't lift a finger to stop it."
Leaflet issued by Izzadin Kassam, the armed wing of Hamas, December 25, 2008
"We won't succumb to the logic of threats made by the Zionist war criminals. Today we are prepared more than ever to foil any aggression against our people."
Hamas leader Ayman Taha, December 22, 2008
"It is our right as an occupied people to defend ourselves from the occupation by all means possible including suicide attacks."
Hamas Spokesman Fawzi Barhum, October 7, 2008; as reported by AFP and other news agencies
[The economic crisis is the result of] "bad administrative and financial management and a bad banking system put into place and controlled by the Jewish lobby."
[The Jewish lobby] "controls the U.S. elections and defines the foreign policy of any new administration in a manner that allows it to retain control of the American government and economy."
Dr. Yussuf Al-Sharafi, Hamas representative, April 12, 2007; as reported by Palestinian Media Watch, April 23, 2007
"...the Jewish faith does not wish for peace nor stability, since it is a faith that is based on murder: 'I kill, therefore I am'... Israel is based only on blood and murder in order to exist, and it will disappear, with Allah's will, through blood and Shahids [martyrs]."
Sheikh Dr. Ahmad Bahar, acting Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council, April 20, 2007; as reported by Palestinian Media Watch, April 23, 2007
"This is Islam, that was ahead of its time with regards to human rights in the treatment of prisoners, but our nation was tested by the cancerous lump, that is the Jews, in the heart of the Arab nation... Be certain that America is on its way to utter destruction, America is wallowing [in blood] today in Iraq and Afghanistan, America is defeated and Israel is defeated, and was defeated in Lebanon and Palestine... Make us victorious over the community of infidels... Allah, take the Jews and their allies, Allah, take the Americans and their allies... Allah, annihilate them completely and do not leave anyone of them."
Hamas statement in response to criticism by Al-Qaeda's Ayman al-Zawahri, March 12, 2007
"We will not betray promises we made to God to continue the path of Jihad and resistance until the liberation of Palestine, all of Palestine. . . So be assured doctor Ayman, and all those who love Palestine like yourself, that Hamas is still the group you knew when it was founded and it will never abandon its path."
Sami Abu Zuhri, Hamas spokesman, April 17, 2006
"[The Tel Aviv suicide bombing] is an an act of self defense... [it is] a natural result of the continued Israeli crimes against our people."
Khaled Mashaal, Hamas leader, February 3, 2006, Al-Hayyat al-Jedida
"[Hamas will] never recognize the legitimacy of the Zionist state that was founded on our land."
Mahmoud Zahar, Hamas leader, after casting his vote in the Gaza Strip, January 25, 2006, Ha'aretz
"[Hamas] will not change a single word in its covenant [which is calling for the destruction of Israel]."
Ismail Haniyah, Hamas leader, at an election rally in Gaza, January 20, 2006, Reuters
"They have tried to pressure Hamas to abandon resistance and to abandon arms. They tried to pressure Hamas to abandon its strategic choice in Palestine, all of Palestine. They tried to pressure Hamas to recognize the legitimacy of the occupation. But they failed... We say Hamas will not change its constant principles."
Ismail Haniyah, Hamas leader, at an election rally in Gaza, January 20, 2006, Gulf Daily News, Bahrain
"The constants and the strategy of Hamas do not change according to circumstances. Hamas will stay faithful to jihad, to resistance, to guns, to Palestine and to Jerusalem."
Ismail Hanieh, Hamas leader, January 18, 2006, AP
"Hamas is not hostile to Jews because they are Jews. We are hostile to them because they occupied our land and expelled our people.... We did not say we want to throw the Jews in the sea or feed them to sharks. We just said that there is a land called occupied Palestine. It was burglarized and it needs to be returned to the Palestinian people."
Mahmoud Zahar, Hamas leader and candidate to the Palestinian legislative council, Palestinian TV, January 17, 2006, Newsday
"We do not recognize the Israeli enemy, nor his right to be our neighbor, nor to stay (on the land), nor his ownership of any inch of land.... We are interested in restoring our full rights to return all the people of Palestine to the land of Palestine. Our principles are clear: Palestine is a land of Waqf (Islamic trust), which can not be given up."
Hamas spokesman, Sami Abu-Zuhri, explains to Al-Sharq al-Awsat that there is no contradiction between Hamas' platform for the election and its charter, which calls for the destruction of Israel, January 13, 2006, BBC Monitoring
"The program [of Hamas-backed list to legislative council] sets out the details and means for its implementation over the next four years, while the [Hamas] charter talks about vision and strategy…The movement is adhering to the constants and strategies outlined in the [Hamas] charter."
Dr. Mahmoud Zahar, interview in Arabic with elaph.com, October 11, 2005, MEMRI
"The Taliban are 1,000 times more honorable than the American occupation and its collaborators… We are not a copy of the Taliban... Judge us according to what we are. Everyone must stop blaming the Taliban for things that in fact characterize the people of the West, who seek to turn the international community into a swamp of corruption and destruction, and to spread abomination and disease in the name of absolute freedom...."
"We are part of Allah's promise that Islam will enter Palestine and every home in the world, with a revelation of the power of Allah the Omnipotent, and a revelation of the inferiority of the infidels. Hamas is leading this plan in Gaza, the West Bank, and the 1948 territories, and the Muslim Brotherhood is leading it everywhere else. This is part of Allah's predestination."
Sheik Nizar Rayan, Hamas "political" leader, at a rally in Gaza, Al-Jazeera TV on September 16, 2005, MEMRI
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Here is the hamas charter from when it was formed but I will summarize a few points for the people who think hamas is fighting for Palestinians.
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
Here is where they explain why negotiations will never be accepted.
Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the (Palestinian) question. Some accept, others reject the idea, for this or other reason, with one stipulation or more for consent to convening the conference and participating in it. Knowing the parties constituting the conference, their past and present attitudes towards Moslem problems, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not consider these conferences capable of realising the demands, restoring the rights or doing justice to the oppressed. These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitraters. When did the infidels do justice to the believers?
Articles 21 and after is where most of the antisemitism is contained and outlines a generic plan for eradicating Israel or what thy call restoring palestine and murdering all Jews . It also details a conspiracy theory where jews are working with freemasonry and even rotary clubs against Islam.
Just read it for yourself. Ithas nothing to do with helping Palestinians. It's only about setting up an extreme Islamic state and eradicating every infidel in the area, including jews Christians and even fellow Muslims who just happen to disagree with the.
Below is the statement justifying attacks on women and children by falsely claiming Israelites have done the same.
In their Nazi treatment, the Jews made no exception for women or children. Their policy of striking fear in the heart is meant for all. They attack people where their breadwinning is concerned, extorting their money and threatening their honour. They deal with people as if they were the worst war criminals. Deportation from the homeland is a kind of murder.
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@HistoryBuff
oh fair enough. I have no idea what that guy's going on about. I wouldn't say I support either side. They both do terrible things.
This is moral cowardice. It's no different than a person defending a rapist by pointing out the victim was wearing a short skirt and was in a bad part of town.
Technically yes both sides did something wrong but everyone knows which side needs to take responsibility for the crime.
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@HistoryBuff
But if the solution you are looking for is mass murder, the easiest solution would be destroying Israel
No, they get options. Nuke to the face or accept our will.
They treat their enemies just as cruelly as Egypt or the Saudis.
Categorically false. There is a reason why zorastrians are nearly extinct while jews, christians and Muslims coexist peacefully in Jerusalem.
you'll find the whole world against you very fast if you go full nazi and try to kill or expel all the Palestinians.
Nobody is suggesting that nonsense. In fact many Palestinian Israelis are fighting side by side with Jews against Hamas. I find it odd though that you are defending the side who wishes to kill 6 million plus jews currently in Israel in a new holocaust as the victims of the Nazi Jews.
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@FLRW
If you want to attract a lady like me, here is your too list
1. Be old. Very old. At least 80, but if you are in poor health, exceptions can be made.
2. Have a net worth of 10 million dollars.
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@HistoryBuff
that's not going to happen. No country wants millions of refugees. Egypt would rather fight Israel than let Israel deport the Palestinians. The saudi's would also have some harsh words about it.
Then they can take a nuke to the face TBH. The world can become civilized and peaceful voluntarily or by the people who stand in the way getting nuked in the face.
I dont k ow that expulsion is needed, but if it is, it's none of the business of the country the get expelled to, if they dont like it, they can get a nuke to the face, fuckem.
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A video of a family held hostage and a young boy crying because the hostage taker killed his sister.
https://youtu.be/6IRhO6p6vV8?si=6Apk6mxjEoBq94di
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@Best.Korea
No one cares.
That's sad
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Videos of children and grandmother's being taken hostage. Something hamas denies but once again also posted the videos referenced in the video below
https://youtu.be/SDCGFQweU2A?si=iqDoP3yJpK2rkvEQ
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Hamas rejecting allegations of the actions posted in these videos while also being the same people who originally posted the above videos. https://youtu.be/RovEtt36Kqs?si=4AwmH3yfHeutyxdY
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Civilian hostages paraded through the streets of Gaza as many normal everyday Palestinian people beat them while they are paraded, yell at them and spit on them. https://youtu.be/J0ZnWqg6-NE?si=wVDzmTwP9L-7NK0L
Israel is trying to avoid civilian casualties but most of these people aren't innocent by any stretch of the imagination either.
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Shani Louk's dead body being paraded around as Hamas spits on the young party goer and some more footage of people running for their life
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A series of videos at this festival of peace. Hamas paragliding in, crowds running for their life. In 18 year old girl kidnapped and begging not to be killed.
https://youtu.be/cZ83Q7tM4A0?si=-vrVPg96qSVPNFJd
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Civilian taken hostage probably with the blood of her relatives maybe a child and a husband all over her.
https://youtu.be/6FVUxvp6Ah0?si=QXK954nf-pPEtY6n
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Civilian hostages being walked to Gaza
https://youtu.be/5CEodzQDAIA?si=j_4GgnkuhLyHha1Q
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This thread is for random videos of the Crimea of hamas.
Here is a video of hamas at a music festival, and let's be honest it is mostly leftists at here types of events, so the people most concerned about the treatment of Palestinians. In the video Hamas is shooting g through port o potties at random people hiding, or just taking a shit. https://youtu.be/brdOlR-GfTg?si=wJlCDd3OtQXa3a-S
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@HistoryBuff
they are told they where they are allowed to live.
They actually could go back and forth to Israel for work until Hamas put a stop to it
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@HistoryBuff
Even if you fix the underlying causes you still have to remove the terrorist organization. The 9/11 commission report laid out exactly what to do after destroying the terrorist organization though.
Israeli occupation. Israelis occupy it and change the school system. The school system was teaching hateful things and now you make the school more western like. There was television programs which supported terrorism. A kids show with a clone of mickey mouse not too long ago for example.
So you have to do a lot of work to westernize these people so you can then step back and empower them to build a great nation or even invite then to be a part of your nation and build a great nation together.
I think an acceptable strategy is also push these people back to arab states like Egypt or Saudi Arabia. The right to self determination is a stupid philosophy and we also have the fact it doesn't apply here because there is nothing uniquely different about Palestinian people than other Arabs, which has been genetically proven. The reason the term Palestinian was used to name the Arabs who were told to settle there is because calling them a people is a tool for propaganda purposes.
So they can combine a couple of these situations. I don't think the Jews should try to make Palestinians refugees for western nations though, just Arab ones so they can live among their people in peace and prosperity
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@HistoryBuff
I'm playing devil's advocate
My apologies then.
Israeli's, to be clear. But only israel has the ability to actually resolve the situation since they hold all the ground, they keep palestinians in a giant open air prison.
I would say it was a prison of thir own making for the most part. I think Israel will solve this situation soon, and it is a shame that because of hamas (mostly not entirely), it will be an ugly solution but unavoidable to ultimately improving the lives of both the Palestinian people who are held hostage by radical Islamics and improving the safety and security of Israel.
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@Greyparrot
What do you think of my post
Let's see
No, because the world operates on might makes right, and wars have consequences.
Correct
That's why nations have standing armies and borders change after a war to end the war.
Okay no particular feeling on this statement
The ONLY reason why Hamas is allowed to artificially exist is because Israel refuses to exercise might to end that evil on the Earth. In my opinion, a nation that refuses to eliminate genocidal enemies deserves to have their children beheaded. Go woke, get smoked.
I agree with what uncle Ted was saying about why these particular problems exist. It's from collective over socialization. It's something Hamas is making use of. They literally targeted civilians for raping, murdering, torturing and holding hostage and then Israel responds and thy say
"We are victims here look at what Israel did"
It is similar to a kid poking a bees nest and then blaming the bees for why he is stung and playing a victim.
Over socialization has caused western nations to act like bitches. War at one point could be quick but very ugly. This despite being very bad for propaganda purposes was what was best for both the invading army and the invaded people.
Since it is so ugly and western nations have preferred to slow down war, move slow and it does make it harder to show the evils of war, but it spreads out and increases suffering for both the host and the invader. It's honestly why nations re typically better off with right wing leadership.
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@FLRW
It makes sense, look, there are no women on this site.
I am a woman.
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@cristo71
I’m not buying your earlier claim that you believe Hamas and the Israeli government are equally “evil,” by the way. Clearly, you wish to indicate that Israel is guilty of greater wrongdoing, and that the burden is on Israel to peacefully resolve this rather than Hamas.
They are putting greater burden on Israel for the same racist reasons liberals always play this game
They subconsciously feel that Palestinians are inherently barbaric and that the Israelis are a civilized people and so think the civilized people should have a greater responsibility. It's the reason you can see Hamas torture both Israelis and Palestinians and people like history buff will claim it is okay because they were persecuted. (Any action becomes okay if a group is weak, which is why thy were okay with BLM riots and looting) . Meanwhile if Israel makes some ugly decisions because they need to preserve as much life as possible against a group who is suicidal, who uses human shields and commits many more war crimes than the Israelis are in the wrong.
Notice there is no solutions proposed so I guess we are to believe that Israel is supposed to just let Hamas and other groups like ISIS just start murdering and raping their civilians indiscriminately.
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@HistoryBuff
Let's put it this way, let's say your country were invaded by an evil 3rd party. They enslave your people, steal your land, leave your children on the brink of starvation
The fact you have this view and yet your name is history buff is crazy. Request the site owner change your name because this shows a complete lack of understanding the situation.
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@Best.Korea
And it tooks you 80 years and you still dont win
Israel is humane and trying to preserve life. I think Hamas may have changed their mind though.
Hamas I guess was helping Palestinians by inciting Israel to start bombing the weapons they have stored in civilian areas.
Things Israel has done in response to Hamas. Please tell me if these actions help or hurt Palestinians so we can evaluate whether Hamas provocation was a good move for Palestinians. Which will help determine if Hamas cares about helping Palestinians or hurting people.
Israel has shut off electricity to the Gaza strip
Israel has shut off water to the Gaza strip
Israel has stopped all food from going into Gaza.
Israel is bombing civilian locations that are being used as weapons caches and hold things like rockets and using Palestinians as human shields.
Those things I don't think help Palestinians. What about more directly. Let's see if what Hamas directly does to Palestinians helps then.
1. They have taken concrete donated to them meant to build schools and hospitals and used it to build underground tunnels for guerilla warfare.
W. They have taken their own water pipes put there by Israelis to make sure they have drinking water, and literally turned them into parts for rocket.
Nearly all the aid sent to the region to help the poor people there, is taken by hamas and used to prepare for war instead of helping its people live better lives.
If you want to help Palestinians the best way to do is to support Israel removing the people harming them. Which is Hamas. If you are against the Palestinians being oppressed, you should support the defeat of their biggest oppressor. Hamas
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@Best.Korea
Only a coward doesnt fight against the oppressor.
Palestinians are oppressed by hamas. You see what hamas did and now the Israelites will use the Stalingrad option to preserve lives because despite being ugly it saves more lives than a ground invasion would.
Did you know Ghandi fought against oppressors in a peaceful way?
Did you know MLK was a huge factor in desegregation and fought oppressors in a peaceful way?
I am not going to say violence is uncalled for, but millions of Israelite Jews thought of Palestinians as oppressed also and were fighting to help them.
The musical festival of civilians Hamas targeted was full of mostly left wing Jews. The exact type of people who would be fighting for Palestinians.
Hamas attacked the people most likely to help them because peace or help is not what they want. It is in the original Harter of Hamas. They want Israel exterminated.
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@Savant
Surah 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …"
Surah 2:191: "And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims).
It has Jewish specific texts referancing genocide as well.
They are Launching a holy war they are happy to die for and this is. Ot about land.
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@Stephen
Look here buddy. Islam is a religion of peace and if you disagree then you risk Muslims getting violent with you. It's not worth it
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@Barney
I don't ever read the full paper. It is up to my opponent to find out why my source is bullshit, not me.
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@Stephen
The whole division between Palestinian and jew is what assholes want us to focus on. This is 100% on Hamas, and you can argue that Hamas interprets the Koran correctly and peaceful Muslims are the ones who misinterpret the Bible, but I think we shouldn't obfuscate where the blame for these atrocities lay. We do not blame Germans for th holocaust. It was nazis. We shouldn't blame Palestinians for this latest massacre, it was Hamas.
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@Lemming
The theory is that th nukes sent to Moscow would set off a chain reaction because Moscow would not assume the nukes were from Israel so it would haphazardly target all nato countries
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@Lemming
I'm not sure America would be 'too effected if Israel was destroyed
Incorrect. The Samson option, ensures America would be in big trouble with Israel defeated
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@Greyparrot
I considered that possibility and if it ends up being the case, they need a new government. I would say that both the Israel government and hamas needs defeated if that occurs
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@Vegasgiants
So what? Get back on track
That's both of our faults, so will do.
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Hamas is trying to genocide herself and there is a sick element of the left and right but I am referring to that sick element of the left here, who can finally relieve their boner of wanting to kill Hitler.
You can't go back in time, but what you can do is take a stand against the literal next Hitlers looking to genocide an entire race of people.
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