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@Earth
...Yeah, you want to look at the last game when my Magistrate was redirected? I recognized that I was the likely lynch and said it was pretty unlikely that I could argue my way out of it. At the beginning of this DP, I said that any claims anyone could make would probably do little to dissuade a lynch because scum have basically been given a list that is basically a grab bag of fake claims with only a small degree of uncertainty, and that they can always claim vanilla because most of town is likely vanilla. Given that, what, precisely, do you think I should do in the face of being sussed? Claiming won't help me, and I can't argue my way out of being behaviorally sussed.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I'm not really sure what you're expecting from me, tbh. My post also included points about how pushing for a claim wouldn't be very effective in this DP without more activity. I don't see a reason why I should change who I'm VTLing, given his complete lack of participation up until now, and the last 24 hours have largely involved me preparing for Valentine's Day and having a heavy work day today. That being said, if you think it's scummy of me to post as I did, then there's little I can do to dissuade you at this stage. We're all speculating based on minimal behavioral information at this point, and like Pie said early in the DP, I think it's going to come down to a relatively random choice regardless. If I'm that choice, then so be it.
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Alright, been busy today, but going to give my thoughts in general on the setup.
Well, given that we know all the possible roles that anyone could have, I think that pressuring for a claim isn't all that likely to land us anywhere positive, especially given that 70% of town doesn't have PR, which means, if we're assuming the 7-2 town-mafia split, there are likely only two or three PRs among town and likely only one on scum. That leaves scum with numerous potential fake claims that make them far less likely to be CC'd even if they claimed one, and that's assuming that they don't just claim vanilla.
In other words, pressuring people isn't going to accomplish much aside from yielding some (at this point at least) weak behavioral tells. Still a good idea to push on those that aren't posting (VTL Mikal), but that can only accomplish so much at this stage.
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Lol, OK. Problems rescinded.
How is everyone? Just got home from work.
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Alright, I'm busy this afternoon, so I'm just going to say hi and give basic thoughts.
Mafia: 3x Roleblocker, 2x Redirector, Janitor, Ninja, Strongman, LookoutTown: 1x Bulletproof, Tracker, 2x Doctor, Watcher, 3x Roleblocker, Bodyguard, Popular (gone in MYLO/LYLO), 1x Gunsmith, 1x Commuter, 1x Weak Cop
I don't want to engage in mod psych here, but the fact that he went through the trouble of posting this set of roles only to apparently leave off two (he didn't include any indication that there was a vanilla role, which GP claimed, and there's a missing role for Oro as well) is a little odd. Clearly, not all of these roles are in the game, though that was expected. It's weird, then, that he would provide a list that goes beyond the bounds of what's actually in the game, but excludes some anyway.
When I get a chance, I'll come back with more thoughts, just chewing over this now.
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@Incel-chud
Probably is. I'm still checking in about it, if only to be sure that it's a design feature and not a bug.
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@RationalMadman
Not sure it is, but thanks for confirming that it isn't an isolated experience. If this is by design, then I'll hear is much.
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@RationalMadman
So... the fact that it would happen again if I issued the challenge somehow makes this by design? Have you seen this happen before? And, if so, have you encountered the same issues with the comments section and publication date?
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@RationalMadman
I thought it would be obvious... It's not 'some problem' it would be a problem if it was visible.
...I'm not sure I understand this. It's odd that the challenge apparently cannot be viewed, at least not by anyone besides the challenger and the person to whom the challenge was issued. It's a problem that, apparently, Athias is unable to post comments in the comments section and information like the publication date is missing. I don't know what you think is obvious here because I'm unfamiliar with instances of this happening before.
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@Lunatic
@Athias
Hmm... not sure. My guess is that there's some issue with sharing it before it is accepted. I'd like to see what happens after ComputerNerd accepts it, but I'll see what I can do in the meantime.
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@ILikePie5
You did well defending yourself, but you didn’t convince me. Still would’ve pushed for your lynch over his, but by that point, I’d said all I could about it.
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@Lunatic
GG in general to scum. Would've had a hard time reading Mikal in the end.
Only other critique I have is maybe whiteflame should have forfeited his role after he used it to confirm himself. Mafia realized really quickly the value of being able to redirect that. I guess he couldn't have known there was a redirector, but yeah still kind of sucked. It would have sucked anyway though since he targetted pie and pie was scum as well, so I guess it wouldn't have mattered though since sui would have been lynched DP3.
I wrestled with whether to use my role, though I did it for two reasons. One, I had a slight scum read on Pie after how DP2 ended. Two, I didn't think I could rally the vote against him despite that. So, my goal was just to lock off what I thought was a likely scum vote, give us time to get the lynch off on Sui, and then circle back to Pie in the next DP.
Clearly, that didn't work, but I really wasn't expecting a redirect on me. Probably should have been more careful of that.
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@Lunatic
I unvoted in a previous post, but I'll reiterate that here.
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I still feel pretty solidly that we should be lynching Pie. My reasoning may be WIFOM, but the responses that Pie has been giving me about what he'd do as the optimal plays do nothing to alleviate my concerns. I've often found Pie hard to nail down when he's scum, and one of the reasons is that I usually can't predict his behavior based simply on what I'd expect him to do as scum. Yet, he's telling me what I should expect from him as scum. I just don't buy it.
In general, I can't make sense of Supa's behavior from a scum perspective. The behavioral tells that he points to can all be explained largely by the general lack of interaction that Supa has had in this game, and much as Supa has made some strange and even sloppy moves in the past as scum, I have too much trouble buying that he's doing this as scum.
That being said, if the consensus is that Supa is scum, then I'll vote with it. I've been wrong before and I might be now. I'll fully admit that my perspective comes partially from a gut feeling, and partially as a result of knowing that I targeted Pie during the NP. If you don't buy that I'm town, then my perspective doesn't mean a whole lot because you don't trust that I used my Magistrate on Pie.
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@ILikePie5
I can see you doing all of this, even if you're going to WIFOM on each point.
Whether or not you'd be willing to bus at that particular point is impossible for me to know, but if your general response is that this doesn't fit your meta, I'll buy it. Doesn't mean I'm writing you off.
I just straight up don't agree that effectively forcing a NL by redirecting me onto a townie and then having scum refuse to vote for one of their own is the best choice for scum to have made. You can push me on that all you want, but I see value in the strat that scum went with. You can claim all you want that this wouldn't have come up as an option if you were scum, but many of us are straight up disregarding the Cop result and you yourself said that we should be doing that at this stage regardless. Not saying this was the best choice scum could have made, but I'm not putting it past you or anyone else to have made it. I'm also not convinced that the Cop result wasn't monkeyed with in some way, so the argument that you wouldn't leave a Cop to investigate doesn't work for me in general.
In general, you keep talking about what the optimal strategy for you would have been, and I'm telling you now, that shit isn't convincing me. Whoever is scum, they're not playing optimally. That doesn't mean that you're not scum. I can't and shouldn't assume that, if you were scum, you will always behave in the most optimal way. Beyond that, you keep saying that you, personally, would never do something as scum. Even if I bought that, there is a scum team here and whoever is on that scum team is going to occasionally come to different decisions. I don't buy the argument that I should solely focus on what you, personally, are likely to do as scum in order to determine whether scum, as a whole would have done this with you on the team. Suffice it to say, I wouldn't be surprised if you were on the scum team and pushed back against the decision to redirect my Magistrate, though I'm also not convinced that you don't have a different role that took the decision away from you. The Trancer role will automatically redirect any visits that would go to you to a different target of your choice. The Deflector takes all actions that would target one player and directs them to another. You could be a Nexus, automatically redirecting anything that targets you to another player. I'm not arguing that any of these are inherently more likely, though I'll point out that any of them would explain why you personally wouldn't have taken this specific action and yet you could still be scum.
"It is objectively true that Supa had zero interactions with Supa if you reread the DPs" ...huh? Did you mean with Sui?
I'm not arguing that Supa isn't sloppy. I'm arguing that you're asking me to buy that he's being far more sloppy in this particular DP than makes sense to me. You're asking me to view what he did here as scummy, but despite his errors in the past, I've never seen him do anything like this as scum. If you have examples, I'd consider them.
For now, because we have the time to do this, I'll unvote. Pie's asking me to look at this holistically, so I'll go back and analyze things in more detail. It's either Pie or it's Supa, it can't be both. Pie has a point when it comes to behavioral reads on Supa and his interactions with Sui, though I don't buy the OMGUS as a problem (like I said, at this point, one of the two of you is scum). I don't buy that his sloppiness points to him being scum, but that may be because the examples of previous sloppiness are too dissimilar.
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Alright, long post to get my reads and reasoning out there since I might have limited time over the next several hours. I've had some time to read through all this and I'm really starting to think that our scum team is GP, Pie and Sui.
Sui's obvious, so I won't spend time on him.
Pie is a tough call because, at this point, we're clearly between him and Supa. I don't read anything into Pie's being defensive since he kinda has to be at this point, regardless of whether he's scum or town. That being said, all of the things he's saying about how his behavior doesn't fit what he'd do if given the opportunity just isn't convincing to me.
He says he tends to play conservatively, and to some degree that's true, though even nixing bussing as a regular strategy for him (and as something he'd hesitate to do), I know he's ready and willing to do it. It's strange because he simultaneously says that he's a conservative player, but that if he was bussing, he would have bussed hard. Those two statements don't jive for me.
He says quite a bit about how he's got the game solved numerically to the point that he wouldn't have redirected my Magistrate to a fellow scum if he was scum, but I'm not so sure. Getting a NL on this NP wouldn't end the game (hence his argument about lynching Mikal, if he actually is the Hunter, also wouldn't end the game - we could stand to lose two town so long as one scum goes with them, just as we could stand to lose one town during the NP with a NL) and would give town some POE in the process. Not saying that it wouldn't help scum as well, but Pie acts as though it's obvious that the choice for scum would have been to redirect my Magistrate to another town member. I don't see it that way, and the additional benefit of sowing confusion in town by forcing them to analyze other members beyond the obvious scum has its own benefits. So, no Pie, I'm not implying that you didn't see a numerical benefit if you were scum. I'm saying that you would have seen a different benefit to this course of action, one that wasn't necessarily outweighed by the numerical one.
Beyond all that, I'd say that Pie is doing a lot of WIFOM analysis, as Supa already mentioned. Why would I have done this instead of this as scum? Wouldn't this have been the better choice? He decries what he sees as WIFOM analysis from me and then responds in kind. And it doesn't really work for me because what he's asking me to do is to look at his behavior, see that he didn't take the most opportune route if he was scum, and finger Supa instead. The trouble with that is that I think Supa took an even less opportune route. I've already explained that, so I won't revisit it here. I don't care that Supa came up Inno, that's not factoring into my decision at all, but I don't understand how the CC and rapid reneg makes sense from Supa's perspective if he's scum, especially since, as Pie points out, both came "after Computer had already said he visited Supa." I still haven't gotten a reason why Supa would take this specific set of actions, but if this is him as scum, this is incredibly sloppy. Pie, you can't ask me to simultaneously view a non-optimal choice you potentially made as obvious reason not to suspect you, and then look at this and see it as obvious scum play. Maybe Supa is just playing this sloppily, but at least for the moment, I buy that less than I buy you having made the decisions required to get to this point as scum. Really, the only thing that's making me solidly question Supa is that he's putting his behavior down to Luna being late in sending him a PM to tell him he was visited by Computer. It's possible, but it's entirely unverifiable and outright frustrating if true.
As for GP, he's the result of POE. The more I keep reading through this and the previous DPs, the less I buy that Mikal is scum. I've still got solid townreads on Mharman and ComputerNerd. That just leaves GP. I've seen him do a similar long con like this in a previous game, though I can't remember which it was. It's a weird claim for him to have made since it would eventually lead to his lynch, but it's worked to keep us from suspecting him as scum. I can't say that I'm solid on this one yet, but I'd have a harder time seeing Mikal as scum than GP at this stage.
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Anyway, I'm heading to bed. I'm going to keep my vote in place for now, as my mind hasn't been changed enough to warrant changing it to someone else or removing it entirely, but I'll check back in tomorrow morning and consider again.
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@Mharman
Still, I am combing through the archives to verify Supa's claims of Lunatic role swapping. Earlier I backed Supa up saying Lunatic did it in Overwatch Mafia, but a voter stealer/vote buyer/politician (which he gave to a town Soldier 76) isn't technically town or mafia, I just assumed it was normally mafia there.On a side note, this is Lunatic using Whiteflame's current role as a town role, so I think Whiteflame truly is not lying about his role.Which leads me to a very crazy-sounding claim: Unless there is major WIFOM coordination by Pie and Mikal, Greyparrot is lying and has made the ballsiest fake claim in history (only Tvellalot's town bus driver claim can challenge it, but the difference is that Tvellalot was under pressure when he made his claim).Why yes, I do research near-ancient mafia games if I feel like it.
Yeah... I've started to consider GP as well. It's hard not to write him off as the TP he claims to be, but it's also an unverifiable role and could (and in this case, did) lead to a later lynch as town puts it off in favor of other lynches. Could be an extremely ballsy claim, as you say, but it wouldn't be a first for GP to claim something ballsy and have it work out for him as scum.
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@ILikePie5
If I wanted to bus, I would’ve bussed hard like I did with Lunatic at the beginning. I’m capable of bussing. We all are. But you’re actively ignoring that I’m a fairly calculative player.
Not convinced that you would have run things that way, given the circumstances, though everything I have to say on that is WIFOM, so I'll abstain. I do think that your doing it was calculated, so yes, I feel that that falls in line with what I know of your scum play.
I still think Supa is scum. ComputerNerd could’ve been redirected if we’re considering the redirection angle.
Frankly, I can't make sense of how this would work. Supa had an opportunity to push hard on ComputerNerd and refused to take it. No, actually, it's stranger than that: he did push on ComputerNerd with the CC, and then renegged on it. So what would have had to happen, if there was a redirect, is that Supa either redirected him or gave someone on his team the go-ahead to redirect, then responded to ComputerNerd's claim that he was copped by flatly denying it, and then changed his tune shortly thereafter. The only sense I can make of that is that he forgot about the redirect, believed that he'd been copped guilty (despite ComputerNerd saying he was innocent), denied the copping ever happened to escape it, and then realized his mistake and made an about-face. I'm not saying that that's impossible, but that involves a lot more effort and lapses on his part than make sense to me.
You’d also have to consider that I’d be brain dead from your POV to redirect WF to my own scum partner rather to another known townie or even WF himself. After my last game, you really think I’d do that?
...I don't understand this response. We all knew that Sui was guilty after last DP. Redirecting me was smart: it prevented an easy lynch on the most scumread person in the game, forcing town to make tough decisions among the remainder of the players. That's not a brain dead response - it makes a lot more sense than redirecting me to a known townie just to reduce the number of votes we have by one, since that would leave the number of votes we'd need to lynch at the same number and still require all of town and the claimed TP to agree. As for directing it back to me, I know that's not possible because my PM says that I can't self-target, though again, I don't really know why that would be a better move. Maybe you'd disagree that it makes sense, but I see perfect sense in it, and I'll say that that's true regardless of who else is scum.
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@Mharman
True on both fronts. He is right that we’ll have to get GP on board with any choice we make, so he’ll have to chime in eventually.
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@Mharman
I do. I will say that Pie still has a point about how a lynch on Mikal could work either way, though like I’ve said, I have reservations about that strategy.
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@Mharman
Supa has no reason to lie. If he were scum he could CC this and some heightened suspicion on ComputerNerd could result in him pushing ComputerNerd to get the game ending mislynch but he WITHDREW HIS CC. And if Supa is telling the truth here, I conclude he is most likely telling the truth about being Gramps and Supa is very likely town based on behavior along with this new information. And ComputerNerd would be telling the truth too since he would have a motive to say Supa is guilty. And I don’t see them being in a scum team together either; Supa CC’d ComputerNerd and he would have no reason to bus his teammate if he were mafia unless he intended to pull it back and fake a mistake from Lunatic, but I don’t think that’s the case.So I think both are town. But that would leave Pie and Mikal on a scum team together with Sui, which I don’t think is possible either. Pie just said we could lynch Mikal and have Mikal shoot someone. Pie has no reason to bus Mikal. I know I’m town and I think ComputerNerd being town + my claim of Russ and theme analysis should confirm me. Plus, I’d have no reason to try make ComputerNerd be more active if I were scum; upon getting the Emissary knowledge I would’ve told my scum teammates to kill him in the night if I were scum. For me to be scum, I would have to have been planning everything, including the Emissary claim and pressuring of ComputerNerd for activity that would back up the Emissary claim before he claimed cop. Do you really think the guy who forgot how a ninja worked would be capable of that? You could say I was planning to forget how ninja worked, but I am not capable of that. I even said before the game started in sign-ups that I was not good at the game.But that only leaves two mafia, Sui and Mikal or Pie. So who’s fake claiming? Whiteflame? Greyparrot? Neither are a great answer, so if I’m wrong on a town read let me know and why.
This looks pretty similar to the logic I posted for POE. I can't say that I see either CN or Supa as scum here. Their play doesn't fit the profile.
The only disagreement I have is with the notion that Pie and Mikal are definitely not a scum team. If they were, I think this is exactly what they'd do, especially given the narrowing pool of suspects. I've seen Pie hard bus his partners early in the DP before, and this wasn't really early at all. It reads to me of him waiting until he felt there was little other choice. Note that he said this before Supa CC'd ComputerNerd. The only other potentially viable option would've been for him to push a lynch on Supa, which probably would have made more sense for him at that moment, but given that Supa would confirm ComputerNerd's visit, I could see why he might have been hesitant to push that lynch.
There's clearly some WIFOM analysis in here, but I could certainly see scenarios where Pie and Mikal could be scum partners. I don't think that the reality that Pie would be bussing him pretty hard at this stage does a lot to reduce the plausibility of it.
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@ILikePie5
Yes, though I have reservations about it since, if he is town, it would cost us a town member during the DP and one during the NP, putting us at 2-2-1 instead of 3-2-1. Since he's on my list of potential scum, though... yes, I'd consider lynching Mikal.
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There's an awful lot going on here that I don't get.
Supa CC's ComputerNerd about his visit. The only reason this makes sense is if we assume error on the part of Luna, which is a frustrating variable. It does make it difficult to believe that ComputerNerd and Supa are scum together (you'd think that, at minimum, Supa wouldn't actively sus ComputerNerd if they were together).
Then, we have ComputerNerd's action. I do believe that he visited Supa. Given that they are almost certainly not scum together, the question here is whether ComputerNerd visited him as a Cop or in some other capacity, though given that Supa had no claimed PR and scum had no reason to try to RB him, and given that Supa's role allows him to track who visits him, I have a hard time understanding why ComputerNerd would visit him as scum.
I can't make sense of this interplay with one of them being scum. If Supa was scum, he would have capitalized on our concerns over ComputerNerd and the potential falsification of his results. I was already starting to sus ComputerNerd and I wasn't alone in that. Renegging on the lack of validation of his visit just doesn't make sense if he's scum, and the whole "Gramps is scum-aligned" argument just doesn't work for me, especially as I've been given the role in live mafia as town and Luna is more than willing to shake things up. I also can't make sense of why ComputerNerd, as scum, would visit Supa.
So I'm refocusing. We have three scum left in the pool, and my POE places Mharman, Pie, Mikal and Sui in there. Sui's clearly scum. I think Pie is the most likely out of the remainder. Mikal's next. So, at least until I'm given good reason to think otherwise,
VTL Pie
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@ComputerNerd
Mind explaining why you chose to target Supa this time? You tried Badger before and got role blocked. Badger was still an option during this NP. Why didn’t you try him again?
Suffice it to say, I don’t trust this result.
Part of the problem here is that he was previously RB’d. Scum knew he was the Cop, yet he wasn’t RB’d again. Could mean that he was redirected like I was, could mean that scum somehow knew he was going to target Supa (entirely plausible that he’s The Godfather, as has been surmised), it could be that we’re all getting punked by fake results, or this could be the result of some other manipulation. Bottom line: the fact that he’s claiming a successful investigation is sus.
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I’ve thought it through and read the whole DP.
Aside from Sui, I think the most obvious scum is Supa. His response to my being sussed was rushed and ham-fisted. He basically just jumped on the lynch because a wagon was building, ignoring anything else being discussed in the DP, and has since vanished.
Pie is my other scum read. I had a suspicion after the end of the last DP when he rushed that lynch on Max, though he certainly wasn’t alone in that. His pushing the lynch on me, especially as hard as he did, with us at a likely 4-3-1 situation, doesn’t seem very townie to me. In fact, it seems as though his initial vote on Sui was tailor made to make it obvious that Sui had been Magistrated. My read on him is a little more WIFOM, but his behavior reads rather similar to his bussing from a recent live mafia game where he hard bussed his partner.
Mikal might be pulling something, but the amount of slow and careful playing I’m seeing from him really doesn’t fit how I’ve seen him play mafia. Haven’t seen Mharman play before, but I’ve hard townread his behavior from the start and that’s only gotten more solid with time. ComputerNerd just screams newbie, and while I’ve been fooled by that before, I think this is genuine. And, of course, I buy GP’s claim.
Still waiting on ComputerNerd’s action. I’ll check in when I get back to see if he has posted.
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Also, unvote because my vote on Sui isn’t doing anything.
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@ILikePie5
I haven’t had time to really read back through this DP as I needed to address the elephant in the room first. The only read I can give for certain is that Sui is obviously scum.
I’ll read through this ASAP and gather my thoughts. I am headed to dinner, so it might be an hour or so before I can give something more.
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Clearly, one of two things happened in the NP:
I was redirected onto Sui
or
Pie has some role that automatically redirects PRs that target him
Doubt many people are going to believe me on this, though at least it looks like Mikal and Mharman are willing to hear me out about it. I also don't know why I'd go out of my way to vote for Sui to prove my point if I knew that it wouldn't work.
I'd personally like to get some results from other people who haven't spoken up yet, though I doubt those will change many minds.
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Well, fuck me. Someone clearly redirected my target to Sui, and now everyone's going to vote for me. No one's going to question why I'm so adamant that I didn't target Sui, you're just going to assume I'm lying.
Alright, GG scum. Way to go.
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@Mikal
I haven't seen Luna update the vote totals since his voting totals since Post #6, and it's entirely possible that he simply didn't see your vote when he did that update.
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The only possible way that I targeted Sui is if I was redirected to him. If that's the case, I know I'm boned because this town is trigger happy enough to lynch Max simply for claiming another protective role in a game where one of those protective roles was a BP. Everyone suddenly seemed so sure that Max was scum, I didn't even have time to get on and say something about it.
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@ILikePie5
Dude, I'm not lying, but if you want confirmation, feel free to wait for Luna to update the vote count. It'll prove me right.
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@ILikePie5
I didn't target Sui. I targeted you. By the by, I am absolutely willing to lynch Sui.
VTL Sui
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@ILikePie5
Yes. The choice was between restricting the number of likely town votes at a stage where I felt that that wouldn’t matter, and shutting off a potential target entirely from a lynch vote. I went with the former.
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@ILikePie5
1. What’s your justification?
From what I can tell, there was a vote on opening a casino for the Byrdes, which he helps get passed by ensuring that one of the voters who would be against them doesn’t end up voting.
2. Your role can function 2 ways. Prevent a townie from being lynched or preventing mafia from having a vote. Which reason was why you chose Badger and why?
It was a tough call, though I did it by PoE. I didn’t want to pick someone who may not demonstrate that they couldn’t vote, so that left ComputerNerd out. Didn’t want to pick anyone who was a target for claims/lynches in the last DP since my goal was not to obstruct efforts to get them to claim, so Max and Sui were out. GP will eventually be a necessary lynch, so he’s out. From there, I just removed everyone in my uncertain pile in case their claims became reasons to FoS them, which left Mharman, DD and Badger. That choice was random. Glad I didn’t choose DD.
3. Are you a full time magistrate, or an X-shot (I’ll explain why I ask later)
Full-time. I can do this every NP.
4. Can you please vote anyone to confirm that you haven’t stolen Badger’s voter
Sure. I think it’s also worth confirming that Badger can’t be voted for, so I’ll do that if someone else doesn’t.
VTL Max
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@Vader
I honestly don’t know what to respond with. The utility of my role doesn’t say anything about my alignment, and removing one possible vote for the DP seems a small price to pay (let’s face it, we can easily get a lynch off without a town vote, assuming that he is town) for confirming my role. Tell me honestly: how would you have responded to my claiming my role without having used it? Probably similar to how I would have responded: why didn’t you confirm it when you had the chance? I would have scum read that decision, but I honestly don’t understand why you’re scum reading me for confirming.
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@Vader
Don’t like whiteflames claim
Any particular reason?
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Alright, just saw this come up. I’ll full claim:
I’m Charles Wilkes and I’m the Magistrate. I picked someone who I knew would vote and was not either Sui or GP (given that they were targets at the end of the last GP) and ended up picking Badger. In this DP, he cannot vote and no one can vote for him.
Mainly doing this for POE reasons. Unless someone thinks I’d do this as a scum Magistrate, it stands as confirmation of my role and a pretty good indication that I am town. Given that we just mislynched an important PR and lost a protective role (who was hopefully protecting someone else), we need to start figuring this out.
I’d like to see full claims from Max and Sui.
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@Mikal
I do. The fact that he didn't claim immediately after recognizing that the wagon was on him already stands out to me.
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@Mikal
If he doesn't respond or refuses to claim his JOAT roles, I'll shift back.
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@Earth
I am at L-1
Pie included himself in the L-2 count. And the fact that this is your first response to being pressured doesn't bode well for you.
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@Mharman
Looks like you have the same info I do on these characters, and it appears that you’ve thought more about the potential theme split than I have.
Needless to say, since my vote is still on him, I’m willing to push Earth for a full claim. I’m also fine with doing that for Max. At this stage, I think we’re all reading ComputerNerd as town and, unfortunately, as a PR that will likely be the target of scum, so I won’t seek his full claim. In general, I think we should stop after Earth and Max to avoid giving away too much info to scum, though for theme analysis, we do need more now.
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@sadolite
Because scientists are flawed and some of them try to make a name for themselves in ways that are unethical. I’m acknowledging that and saying that the vast majority of scientists would never take this step.
As for anyone reading the study, that’s usually what reviewers are for, but there is also a wide community of scientists that read and re-read scientific papers. We can and do find problems with them, including establishing whether it’s a study of merit or not.
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