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@Lunatic
Excuse me for not bothering to read this post because it contained so much repeated bull shit that you've said over and over again to confirm your biases.
I’ll read this post eventually. Starting off by telling me that I’m full of shit is just the greatest choice If your goal is to convince me.
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@Barney
You should only be dropped down to MILO. So get one of them tomorrow, no matter the extensive lame excesses.
As the person who has been on this line a great deal of the DP, you don’t have to worry about me.
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Fine, fuck it. I’ve got dinner to make and I’m not going to keep checking into the DP to answer more questions and engage with all this more. I’m fine with bringing all this shit into DP3 if it means we can finally move on and get some answers. Still hate doing it, but at least it’s a lynch and, with roughly 5 minutes left, I can’t wait for Earth any longer. If I’m wrong about him and he flips scum, I’ll recalibrate next DP.
VTL Barney
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@Lunatic
When have you asked me any questions about my claim?WTF
So this game has been a big confirmation to something I already knew about you. You will board whatever train that satisfies your ego the hardest.
I stopped reading here. I’m tired of you just calling me out repeatedly for my ego, and I’m not going to engage with this shit. You want to believe it’s all about ego? Fine, whatever. If I’m wrong, you can call me out all you want in the Endgame.
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@Earth
@Barney
@Moozer325
I’d prefer that. He hasn’t responded to any of my questions regarding his claim and I honestly have no idea how he’s coming to so many conclusions about Pie. If we can’t get others on board for the lynch, though, it’s going to end up being Barney, so I’ve tagged everyone who doesn’t have a vote up. Better decide soon, we don’t have long.
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@Barney
@ILikePie5
@Moozer325
I’m caught up and this nonsense is giving me a headache.
Barney keeps talking about some claim that JoeBob had been confirmed guilty… I think by Pie, though I do not recall any such claim.
I do think it’s odd (and have expressed as much) that Pie has strong reason to believe Luna is town, but has also said that he has some means of proving himself next DP, but given the role setup this game, I can at least fathom some strange pairing of roles that cannot be used together or that would have been difficult to use together that could explain why Pie is doing this. It’s not a lot to go on, and I’d prefer that he just clarify his reason for townreading Luna and leave the full claim until next DP, but he seems adamant that he has to delay and if I don’t see a really good reason for that by DP, then he’s on the chopping block.
So… Moozer, I just can’t go with you on this lynch. He’s one of the few people who has claimed an absolute capacity to prove some very key elements of his role. I’ve got more reasons to pursue a lynch against Luna and Vader, neither of whom can confirm themselves and, depending on how each of them flips, could inform an easy decision next DP. Sincerely, Barney would be a better choice in my book for PoE at least.
We don’t have much longer in the DP. If we don’t make any progress toward a different lynch, I’m going to be hammering Barney at this stage.
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I’m headed into a movie soon, so I won’t be available for a little while.
For now, suffice it to say that I believe the argument that Barney would necessarily have obtained some information from Austin about why his role (whatever it is) failed, I just don’t know if I buy that Austin volunteered even more information, i.e. the kind of breakdown that would have included specifics on what other roles would fail that were largely distinct from his. If he had received that information, I don’t think he would have then failed to claim Motion Detector knowing that I would have townread that claim, nor would he have any reason to claim the attached RB. I still just don’t see it as the most plausible set of circumstances that could lead to this conclusion, and frankly, I don’t buy that he somehow intuited a lack of movement on my part. He would have had to receive that information from Austin.
So if he is scum, either Austin gave him just enough information to know that the RB failed, which makes me question why he would take the logical leap to saying that I hadn’t moved and then bank wholly on that leap for his claim, or Austin gave him way too much information and Barney, for reasons I cannot fathom, chose to only use a bit of it and give a claim that would inherently set off alarm bells to boot, given that it’s hard to see a town RB and think anything else.
I’ll vote later regardless and if he’s the only one we can execute a lynch on, then he’ll be my vote. He is still not my top choice, but we’re getting a lynch today, even if it is him.
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@Lunatic
I was seeking your claim at the time, as I explicitly stated. I was not, at that time, scumreading you. So, no, it was not the mere existence of an unconfirmable role that led me to sus you, believe it or not.
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@ILikePie5
The message you got from Austin wouldn’t have come if someone other than Earth visited you. If Barney is scum, which is likely, either he or his partner visited you
I wouldn’t call that confirmation, just odds on, but alright.
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@ILikePie5
The only thing that is confirmed is that Barney visited Whiteflame.
I mean… no? Did anyone confirm that? Earth visited me, Barney claims he did.
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@ILikePie5
What is stopping you both from voting Barney at this juncture?
Just… could you wait? I’ve been on here all morning and I’m still trying to process a good deal of information. If it gets near to the end of the DP and the votes are as they currently stand, unless I come to a very different conclusion than I am now, I’ll hammer.
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@Lunatic
Dude, I’m sincerely so tired of you mischaracterizing my argument that, at this point, I just want to drop it. None of what you’re saying here has been my position. I called out the issue with having so many confirmable roles earlier, and how that means not all of them can be town. I haven’t discounted behavior, either, but I do (and should) take results and actions into account. Just because you disagree with what I’m prioritizing in my reads doesn’t mean I’m dismissing large swaths of information, or expecting the game to solve itself, and sincerely, I resent that you think that’s my mindset.
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@Lunatic
I’m not going to get into the differences between how you posed it and how Pie did. It doesn’t make any difference at this point, so save it for the Endgame. I will, however, point out that I never said Barney was town confirmed. That was always your characterization of my position. The most I said is that I’m not voting him this DP because I townread him.
Also, this:
I’d like to remind you that neither me you or Barney are cinfirmable
is wrong. I’ve stated that I am confirmable, and not based on the Cop investigation. Just because I haven’t confirmed myself yet (neither has Pie), doesn’t mean I’m not confirmable.
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@Moozer325
I’ll vote for Vader, Luna, or pie if I know I have the enough votes behind me. I wouldn’t go for Barney, probably just because I think he has a pretty good claim, but change my mind by a means.
Alright. Right now, it's looking like the momentum is behind lynching Vader, so your wagon might be joined soon enough, though I'm considering it more deeply before pursuing it myself.
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@ILikePie5
I've been convinced for a little while that the scum team is either you and Luna, who claim to have largely confirmed each other, or Barney and Vader. PoE comes down to you four at the moment, with Moozer as a less likely outlier. So the flip should be informative regardless, particularly if Moozer uses his role.
I'll have a decision on this by the end of the day. I don't plan on letting the DP go by without a lynch, regardless.
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@ILikePie5
For now, I'm going to Unvote. I'd be willing to consider Vader as a lynch right now, so that's less of an issue. If I'm misunderstanding something about Barney, then Vader's flip and your claim would at least give me some basis for reducing my PoE. I don't think Barney is confirmed by any means, but I'd need that kind of information to give me more reason to push on him.
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@ILikePie5
I agree that that's at least a logical breakdown of how this could have gone down, so I appreciate your going through this carefully and analyzing the posts. I'm going to re-read this a little later and see if it makes sense to me then.
All that being said, I'm getting kind of frustrated by this side discussion about how you can confirm Luna without stating how you confirm him. You've stated this:
For now, I will state that based on everyone that’s claimed so far, Lunatic has to be town because of my role.
If that's the case, then I sincerely don't understand why you're holding back on claiming to establish that Luna is town. Maybe there's some other facet to your role that would allow you to confirm yourself as well and that hasn't been used yet, but it shouldn't prevent you from explaining how you are this certain that Luna it town based on the other aspect of your role. Luna keeps saying that he knows he was RB'd and that he can virtually confirm that the person who did it was town, strongly hinting it was you. Can you just confirm that?
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Also, at this point, I agree there are far too many informational roles for all of them to be real. We have:
JoeBob's Flipped Tracker
Earth's "chess engine" (i.e. 1X Cop)
Lunatic's catalogue of role tampering
Barney's Motion Detector
Vader's Even Night Voyeur
We know JoeBob's and Earth's are real. We don't know about the other three, but I have better reason to buy Barney's Motion Detector (he stated it outright earlier) than I do either Lunatic's unconfirmable role or Vader's largely unconfirmable role. Even if you don't agree with my view on Barney, at this point, scum is at least one of those three, if not two.
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@ILikePie5
I hate this claim. For one it overlaps with a claimed town. “Black pieces” include Pawn which Savant already claimed. Second the role itself is an even night Voyeur. This is really different from everything that’s been revealed. Every role has a weird mechanic attached to it. JoeBob was a flipped Tracker. Savant had 2 roles. Earth has a unique role. I have a unique role. Lunatic has a unique role. His is just even night voyeur. Third, he said he could confirm himself. How would a Voyeur be able to confirm themself if they mistarget or are conveniently interfered with. Furthermore, role confirmation is not equivalent to affiliation confirmation. My only concern is the fact that he soft claimed this in DP1 with the reason for voting JoeBob—if someone can point me to that, I may reconsider.
Yeah, Vader's claim set me off a little, too. It's not so much that other roles contain those pieces, though that's part of it. The fact that it's the only claimed role that has a use case of "Even Night" or "Odd Night" stands out. I already mentioned that his claim that he could confirm himself with this role doesn't make much sense - his result wouldn't be at all likely to confirm him. It's also not a dual role. Every other role that has been claimed or flipped so far (minus Luna's, though he might have a second role he just hasn't outed yet) has some other role attached to it.
I went back through DP1 and I didn't notice any softclaims from Vader that suggested Voyeur in DP1. Maybe I just missed it, though even that could just mean that he came up with a fake claim early.
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@Moozer325
Not really what I was hoping to see, since that's just creating a different wagon. Both Vader and Pie have claimed that they can confirm themselves next DP, and admittedly, it's going to be difficult for Vader to confirm himself with that claim (his reporting the Voyeur's results won't outright confirm his role or affiliation). What are your thoughts on this back-and-forth regarding Barney and Luna?
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@Moozer325
I can virtually guarantee that Pie isn’t going to be the lynch this DP, so having your vote on him is a waste. You should at least be reading through the last two pages and reconsidering where to place your vote.
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@Earth
You should really be weighing in here at some point, especially since you’re the most town-confirmed person in this game. You appeared to put PoE down to Luna and Vader a while ago. For me, it’s between Pie and Vader, but I’m scum reading Luna at this point.
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@Lunatic
No no no. My issue isn’t that the nod is doing something wrong, my issue is that your reading way too much in to nod psyche in order to create a perfect world for Barney being town to the point where your actively ignoring all the points against him in the hope that the mod gave you a free answer. That’s lazy, and not how I like to scum hunt first of all, and like I said, you are just looking way too hard into something the mod said anyway to crate a perfect world where Barney has to be town. I dont under your motive for doing this if town.
...So you're calling me out for reading into mod psych, but one of your two "variables" you provide ascribes not just a mod psych to Austin, but a specific decision on his part... I'm sorry, how am I supposed to read this? You would have to assume not just that Austin is ready and willing to respond to players, but that he'd provide information specific to PMs sent to other players on request.
Also, I'm really not sure why you're still on this. I haven't talked about mod psych in a while. In fact, in my last major post on this issue, I threw out mod pscyh entirely. At this point, the only elements I'm considering are those that involve a: what I knew, b: what I claimed I knew, and c: how Barney's role and action somehow include key details that I left out. It's awfully strange that you're calling me "lazy" when I detailed specifically how this played out. Meanwhile, your response is "well, he must have gotten it from Austin." How is that absolute shot in the dark not lazy? Hell, how is saying that Barney just somehow guessed the information I left out not lazy? Sincerely, this is some of the weakest logic I've seen from you in any game.
See this cherry picking of what you are willing to believe is kind of baffling for someone who doesn’t believe in luck or coincidences when they don’t match his confirmation biases.Your argument must be then that me and pie are scum buddies and came up with this elaborate plan way before knowing that Barney would claim roleblocker. Remember all this interaction was bread crumbed before Barney ever claimed. That’s some incredible luck right? Oh wait, you don’t believe in luck do you?
Cherry-picking... huh. Alright, I'm realizing I didn't get to your claim yesterday. So, let's talk about that.
So, if I recall, this post contains the entirety of your reason for believing that there's an RB in the game, one who is not Barney. If there's something else, please, let me know.
You've got a role of Mathematician. Setting aside that it's the first role we've had that designates a person as the role and just assuming that it's accurate, there are a bunch of things that don't make sense to me. You state that this is a passive role. You state that you receive a number of actions that are interfered with during the night in some way, shape or form. Fine.
You then say that you were "consensually roleblocked last night"... so you actively courted an RB last DP? Where? When? How would you know you were roleblocked when you've claimed a passive role? You say that "I am considered an active role," but I sincerely don't understand that. What part of your role is active? What part can be roleblocked? Did the roleblock result in your not receiving results during the last NP, or is there some other facet to your role that can be roleblocked, and if so, what is it? You then say that there are some unknown "circumstances regarding the roleblock" that suggest it was one specific person who used it. What circumstances? How does that confirm anyone? If there's good reason to believe that Pie is town, which you seem to be suggesting, then the fact that you've taken this long to explain it is just baffling. You seem to be asserting that you and Pie and confirm one another. So do it. Confirm yourselves. Stop beating around the bush with a weird claim and just out what happened and why you believe that confirms Pie. Telling me that you "bread crumbed" this interaction doesn't tell me jack shit because I still don't know what the interaction was. You could have just as easily planned to bread crumb as scum or as town, and claiming an RB role existed in the game before Barney isn't luck, it's just timing. Good or bad.
And yes, I am starting to read you and Pie as scum buddies at this point. Thanks for pointing that out.
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@Lunatic
I just find it funny that you ignore any variable that could mean barney is scum
I'm literally asking you to explain what variables you see that could explain these results, and your response is to rub in my face that I didn't think of them. Why?
So your answers come down to:
Like maybe him asking the mod how a role like yours would work and whether it would count as a visit. He could have gotten the same answer as you from the mod before claiming his result.
The mod could have offered up essential details of how a role he specifically defined works such that he effectively received the same information the person who used it got... then he sat on that information for much of the DP, only choosing to reveal it under great pressure later. I guess if we're assuming bastard modding to the extreme where everyone who asks receives a detailed set of information about how a role works...? You were so dismissive of the mod actively giving information that could solve the game, but now you're talking as though Austin's giving that information out to everyone who asks.
He could have been lucky in guessing that it didn't count as a visit.
That's an incredibly lucky guess considering he had no basis for making that call and none of what I said during the DP before that hinted that my using it didn't count as a visit. Almost any other choice would have been a far safer bet, but you want me to believe he just lucked into the perfect guess with the greatest degree of risk?
Your are dis-regarding him way too easily.
I'm not disregarding anything, that's why I'm making a big fucking deal out of this and asking you, specifically, what could explain it. So far, despite your claim that there are "a million ways barney could be scum," I'm not seeing a lot of explanations for this series of events.
What do you think about the two town roleblocker thing?
I'm still not clear that there are two RBs. Both you and Vader have mentioned this. The only explanation I've seen for why there must be someone other than Barney who has an RB is the somewhat confusing breakdown of the Mathematician role you mentioned before, and I'm not sure how much I buy of that to begin with.
Anyway, this is my last post for the night. I'll come back to this in the morning, but I still lack a good explanation for this series of events.
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@Lunatic
@Vader
@ILikePie5
I'll tag each of you to read the above. Someone, give me a better explanation for how this all went down than "Barney role-copped Earth," which is the best I can come up with.
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I recognize that people have other valid reasons to consider him, even if I feel most of them are either mod psych or just sussing a weird role (we've been down this road before). And I recognize that some of my thinking on this was initially focused on reading into responses from Austin a little too deeply.
But we can and should consider his claim, his choice of target, and his results. If someone can explain how all those things make as much sense with him being scum as they do with him being town, and I can make sense of your argument, then I'll hammer.
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Alright, so at this point, I think it's worth spelling out the series of events that lead me to townread Barney, since the explanation is kind of scattered at this point and I want to see some direct responses.
At the beginning of the DP, I stated that I had received a "chess engine" and had used it to find that Earth was innocent.
Shortly thereafter, I was informed by Austin that the role I was given had some extra elements to how it works. I provided some of those elements: that it doesn't count as an "active action," and that the role wouldn't be affected by RBs or redirects. I specifically excluded an important element: that Motion Detector and similar roles would not work, either, which suggested that I my use of the "chess engine" would not result in my movement to my target.
Later in the DP, Barney claims a role that somehow monitored my movement and, if I had moved, would have allowed him to use a paired RB. It doesn't matter if the role is the Motion Detector, it matters that it functions in a similar manner: by informing the user that I had (or in this case, hadn't) moved. He stated that I had not moved.
That seems pretty straightforward to me. I'm not assuming any bastard modding, I'm not assuming the use of a given role based on what was sent to me by Austin, I'm only stating what happened and what was claimed. It seems pretty straightforward if Barney's town.
Now, let's assume Barney's scum. That would mean that he saw my claim at the beginning of the DP and made the decision to select a role that would tell him if I had moved. Based on the information I had provided up to that point, that would have been a supremely ballsy move. He knew I had used a role like Cop on Earth. He knew that that would likely result in movement on my part. He nonetheless chose to claim a role that would monitor movement and a target for that role that had actively claimed they had targeted another player successfully. He would have to somehow know in advance that my using the "chess engine" would not act as a movement. Can anyone explain to me how he would have intuited that from any of the posts I made before he clarified his role? Because I can't. Maybe this is just the craziest scum tactic I've ever seen and Barney just targeted me with something else during the NP, failed, and just went for it for unknown reasons. If so, more power to him, that's quite the gambit.
I'm being genuine here, guys: can someone explain how it is more (or even equally) likely that a scum Barney would choose to claim this role (the weak information role that tracked my movement), this use of his role (targeting me, the player who had already claimed to get results from Earth), and this result (no movement) with the amount of information I had given him? Because, sincerely, I don't see it.
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Anyway, I’m at a party for the next couple of hours. I’ll check in when I get back and give thoughts on Luna and Vader’s claims.
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@Lunatic
You keep calling his role a motion detector, which completely ignores the second half of it. Not even Barney called his role a motion detector when he outed it. Mechanically it works similar, but you are grasping for it to confirm him because it was mentioned. Again we’d have to buy complete bastard mod behavior from Austin to straight up confirm another player to another player. The fact that you don’t see any way he could be mafia from those statements is frightening if you are actually town. Also why not consider the possibility that he isn’t lying about his role and mechanics and could still be mafia? Why are you so dead set he is town?
He targeted me. He didn’t see that I moved. That’s either a Tracker, a Motion Detector, or some derivation thereof. I sincerely do not give a fuck if his role actually says “Motion Detector” - it does not change much since, like I said, it still means that Barney got an accurate result when I used my role, which I would argue is not what someone else would expect upon seeing the information I was given.
As for his behavior being bastard mod, I sincerely have no idea how you want me to interpret the information I was given by Austin, but I was given that information. Notably, though, I’m not confirming anyone based chiefly on the fact that I was that I was told this info after the start of the DP. The confirmation is the result of my withholding information from the PM I received from Austin, seeing Barney’s role function in a way that matches the result, and using that as a basis for viewing his night actions as plausibly matching what he said he did. Sincerely, if you have a way to see him as scum with the information I’ve divulged that doesn’t require him to make several very fundamental assumptions that were entirely left out of my posts up to that point in this DP, I’m all ears.
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@Lunatic
I don’t understand how you are lost or confused. You revealed all this on the first page of day phase 2, where you claimed having information that you knew you weren’t roleblocked, and now are acting like Barney revealing he is a town roleblocker confirms him. How are you jumping to that conclusion or the conclusion he is town at all? How does it fit town Barney more than scum Barney?
So, a: it's not the first page of DP2. You're thinking of this post, where I detailed my results from the previous NP.
b: you're thinking of this post from page 2 where I said this:
Also, I was told this after the fact: the action I took was not considered an "active action." I asked for clarification, and what that means is it doesn't behave like a normal night action. It wouldn't have been affected by a roleblocker or redirector (yes, he did say that specifically). So, while a Godfather might fool it, I think we can confidently say that the result is the one I got on Earth, not the result of some change of target.
What I said, very clearly, was that I couldn't have been RB'd. Not that I wasn't RB'd at all.
Also, note two things: the absence of a Motion Detector among the claims that wouldn't work against it (it's in my PM, I left that information out), and the absence of any statement that I didn't actually move when I used it.
c: Let's put all this together. So, according to you, Barney somehow intuited that I didn't move. He specifically chose the Motion Detector, the one role listed in my PM from Austin that I didn't state would be ineffective when used on me, so he just lucked out picking that single role to use on me that Austin had confirmed wouldn't produce a result if used on me. That's the only way Barney's scum based on your logic: he somehow figured all this out based on a pair of posts that gave none of this information away. It has nothing to do with him claiming town RB. It never has.
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Anyway, I have thoughts about Luna’s role that I’m going to type up later when I get more time.
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@Lunatic
Why would it be considered movement? You are not actively visiting another player, your are being visited by them. It doesn't take genius logic to come by the conclusion that you didn't move anywhere. I think you are passing barney off way too easily over that. You are basically insinuating that austin bastard modded and mod confirmed him to you only over very faulty logic.
…I’m sincerely so lost on this portion of your post. I said that my use of the chess engine wasn’t considered to be movement. That is information I did not reveal back when I stated what happened at the start of the DP. Barney targeted me with what he claims was a Motion Detector that didn’t register movement.
So, what you’re assuming is that, somehow, Barney discerned from the limited information I gave within the DP that I used the chess engine, but in my use of it, I didn’t move? He somehow figured that out? Also, to be very clear about this, we’re talking about bastard modding either way. Austin delivered this info to me after the start of the DP, basically confirming that a role was used on me that fit that description. Either the person who used it was scum or they were town, but the confirmation was there regardless. The series of events fits far better for a town Barney than it does for a scum Barney.
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@Lunatic
It's more the avoidance of acknowledging the whole role blocking aspect that I have a problem titling him that. It's like a title that purposefully paints him in a town light.
I acknowledged the RB. Just because I focused the attention of that post on the Motion Detector element doesn’t mean I ignored the RB in my responses.
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@Lunatic
At most this should be null. Barney is claiming information that's been made publicly known in the day phase since the first page. It's funny you would jump to the conclusion he was town and mod-confirmed to you here only. That would be rather convenient, but yeah doesn't seem like Austin would do that.
…except that’s not true. I never said that my use of the chess engine would not be registered as movement. I also never said that Motion Detector was on the list of roles that would not be triggered/effective against it.
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@Lunatic
Yeah… that’s not what he claimed at all….
As I saw it, he claimed a “weak investigator” role (likely Motion Detector, given that he said I didn’t move) and that his RB was contingent on it seeing movement from me. What did I get wrong?
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@ILikePie5
So your role is also confirmable?
Yes, and given the nature of how it confirms me, it also strongly supports my alignment.
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@ILikePie5
As my character very clearly gives away my role and I can confirm myself (character, role and, most importantly, alignment), I would prefer not to.
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@Lunatic
@Vader
Alright.
Right now, I’m not liking that the number of supposedly confirmable roles exceeds the number of people who could be town, particularly given Earth is basically confirmed town and Barney a pretty solid town lean based on his claim. Moozer claimed a confirmable role, and both you and Pie claim you’re confirmable. It’s doubly strange that so many of you claim to be confirmable, but only by DP3.
So that leaves Luna as the only person who hasn’t claimed a confirmable role. Guess he’s next.
Unvote
VTL Luna
Unless anyone can think of a better way to go, I’m going to need that role claim at this point.
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@Moozer325
Earth: Kinda wanted to put in maybe, but they haven't done anything to trigger suspicion yet, but still hasn't claimed, so they're on thin ice up there unless they claim soon.
I appreciate the reads. Just a note: Earth has effectively fully claimed. He gave his character, and I confirmed what he did, so we know his role even if he hasn’t stated it specifically. He’s also been copped innocent by me.
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@Moozer325
No offense pie, but I’m calling bullshit on that. You may be right about having a complicated role, but it just seems to ridiculous, and you make no sense. Anyone who wants t vote with me can, but this is mostly just me voting with my conscience, even though I wont get anywhere.
Look, I'm not going to call you out on sussing Pie at this stage - I think you have some decent reason to do it - but this whole "voting with [your] conscience" bit isn't particularly helpful. If you honestly believe Pie is worth pursuing for a claim at this stage (he has stated that he will fully confirm himself next DP, so he's guaranteed to be under scrutiny at that point), then you should argue why other people should be on him, too.
Personally, I think you should be recognizing at this point that there are two scum left in the game. If you believe Pie is one of them or at least want to eliminate him as a pick, I respect that. Who do you think his partner is, and if you don't know, then who else do you want information from?
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@ILikePie5
I think it’s more that Austin fucked up and then created this whole Active Action bs to keep the game running. But the that’s just speculation
Understood. It was clearly an omission that is consequential for figuring out whether Barney is lying about his role, but so far, the evidence suggests that he's more likely town than scum.
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@ILikePie5
If I was scum and my role blocker on you didn’t work, I’d be furious. Either way, I want to hear from Lunatic and Earth on this matter
As would I. There is some possibility that Barney tried to RB me, got pissed that it didn't work, talked with Austin and got him to send me these details to explain it. Possible, but unlikely. I don't think scum would then push for Austin to send me a message like that. I certainly don't see Barney then outing himself as having the RB. Maybe he's pulling an incredible gambit, but I don't buy it based on the information we have.
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@Vader
So, my target changes. I'd like to give Pie the opportunity to prove himself next DP, which limits my choices to Luna and Vader. Luna at least has a character claim. Vader doesn't. I'd like at least a character claim from him.
VTL Vader
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@ILikePie5
So, I'll be blunt: I'm not voting Barney unless something dramatic changes. When Austin sent me that PM detailing how my investigation worked (after the fact), I assumed it was because someone targeted me. It's possible that the person who did that targeted me with an RB, that's literally on the list of actions he said would not affect mine. What was also on the list, and what I left off just in case it came up, was Motion Detector, the role that Barney just claimed.
Also, I'll note that the way Austin framed it to me was peculiar. He initially said that it doesn't "count as an active action." Note that he didn't say that the action cannot be prevented (as the Protector role was described) or that it cannot be redirected. Those came afterward. He specifically said that it's not "an active action" first. That suggests a focus on movement rather than one on the use of a specific role to intercede in or otherwise affect mine.
If Austin gets back to me with distinct information, I might change my mind, and I'm still considering other ways to interpret this. This, however:
Either way, it’s not affiliation indicative for Barney. We all know a town roleblocker is SOP. And a cop, with a motion detector, with a tracker.
is not currently one of them. I don't really agree that a town RB is obviously SOP, especially when the role is paired with an investigative role that he would also have to out. I also don't think that scum would actively claim an RB role when there are plenty of other options on the table. I also don't agree that that's overdoing it on the investigative front. We all agreed the Flipped Tracker is low utility. The 1X Cop role granted to someone else via Earth, despite the benefits of it being impossible to RB or redirect, could have just as easily gone to scum and been used against town, so it's got a substantial caveat. Having a Motion Detector in town, which I agree with Barney is a weak informational role, is not at all unbalanced given that information, especially when we know that everyone who has claimed so far and both flips yield dual roles. More informational roles are kind of a given.
What I find harder to believe is that Austin would actively facilitate scum like this by sending me that information after the night actions played out. It's not the best that it came out after the beginning of DP2 to begin with, but it lines up with Barney's telling of events. Maybe Austin would do this, actively affording scum an alibi for their actions that just so happens to include a fake claim that Barney actively used. Right now, I don't buy it.
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@Barney
Austin messaged you about it already, (presumably) to prevent a mess wherein I accused you of not moving, when that item didn't count as an active move.
That would explain the message I received from him. Never mind about detailing the specific target you chose or how your movements would (or wouldn't) register.
This is also why I said quite awhile ago that I'm 95% certain you're town. If I died, you not carrying out the NK could be found.
To be fair, as I said initially, my use of the chess engine meant that I could take no other action, so the NK would be off the table regardless
I'll wait for Austin's response to my PM before I give fuller thoughts on this claim.
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@Barney
You really can't? I have a dozen or so notifications notifications from Pie with his BS bullying tactic. When someone else (Lunatic) without being a bastard simply asked, I gave information.
Alright, I get that, though he wasn't the only one asking.
Adding to it, Pie gaslighting claiming he's already done a partial claim... But also not saying when and where... I mean either of us could have missed it, and he could have missed the list not including it... But all three seems unlikely if he's actually provided information.
Yes, I flagged that as well. He's claimed that he can verify his own character and role, but he has not claimed either at the moment. All I saw was a softclaim.
Anyways I'm a weak investigator roleblocker hybrid.Each night I select two players, the first of which I get a notification if they target another player (I don't know which player). The second gets roleblocked if the first moved.NP1 watched whiteflame, who did not move, so my roleblock did not trigger.
That at least makes sense with the role. I haven't actually asked whether my use of the chess engine counts as a move. I'm going to inquire about that. Who else did you select? And would that register as you visiting both players, even if the RB fails?
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@Moozer325
The way I see it, no one has really jumped out at me as being incredibly suspicious, so I’m working my way through, trying to get a feel for each person one at a time.
While it is worth making the rounds and trying to get more information, I think it's pretty obvious that you have at least limited the pool of suspects to some degree, otherwise you wouldn't have referred to Barney and Pie as "candidates." You've been reading through the DPs, so you should have some information to base that view off of.
To be clear, your goal in these games isn't necessarily to find someone who stands out as blatantly sus. That happens, but especially this early and with this little investigative information, it's not particularly likely to happen. You should nonetheless still be able to glean something from these DPs, even if it's only a pool of people who you think are likely town vs. everyone else. Part of doing that is just to organize your own thoughts, and part of it is showing us your thought process so that we can use it as a basis for our reads on you, so there's value in providing what insights you believe you can, even if they're not the most solid reads.
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@Moozer325
I don't really have any opinion on either of them, It's just that they're both candidates right now, and I'm trying to narrow it down.
By now, you really should have an opinion on them. What makes them "candidates" and how does that differentiate them from others? That seems like an opinion to me. You'll notice that several of us have spelled out our reads to explain why we see certain people as sus or, at the very least, the explain who we limit the potential scum to based on process of elimination (PoE). It's worth providing some insight into how you're seeing other players at this point, which would also increase your active participation in the DP.
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