zedvictor4

For sure Doc.

Opposition is the nature of the beast.

Life would be to simple if we all agreed.

But you are just empathising with the label that you are conditioned to  agree with.

Which doesn't negate the success of those who wear the other label.

Top of the morning to ya Doc.

By participating, you have clearly shown the worth of the Forum Poly.

And recent academic thinking, suggests that Stonehenge was probably built as both a reverential and tourist attraction.

Like walking hundreds of miles to visit Santiago de Compostela.

Someone's always taking money from the gullible along the way.

And the gullible are always prepared to walk hundreds of miles and cough up.

And everyone is happy.

One's rationale is subject to one's own dogma.

Which would include ones own interpretation of existence.

Hence why we continue these inconclusive discussions.

For sure Doc.

The measure of success can be what ever you want it to be.

But by measures of social importance, influence and wealth, they are successful.

There's no getting away from the fact.

And there's no getting away from the obvious fact, that you harbour resentment.

Better to be content with what you've got Doc.

True True True.

But as an argument against determinism, it was easily found to be lacking.

And if such wasn't the case, I wouldn't have argued for the sake of it.

Such was his foolish challenge.

Nonetheless, he was shot to death by  an immature teenager with an assault  rifle.

And you think that's cool?

Such are human beings I suppose.

Semantics the lot of you.

If something can be known to be correct, then belief is unnecessary.

Belief is the acceptance of something that is uncertain or unknown.

And definition is an accepted lexicographical explanation of the meaning of words.

One does not need to believe a definition, that is accepted thus.

Me too.

Curiosity indeed.

And of course those that gather at Stonehenge are similarly homo-sapiens/blobs of organic goo.

Labels such Pagan, Druid, Witch and Christian are the latterly applied stuff of imagination.

And in the interests of equality......Atheists are also known to visit Stonehenge.

The most  amazing thing is (in my opinion)...... Some of the stones were dragged all the way from Pembrokeshire.

Now there's determination for you.

Love the argument.

But the obvious response is:

That, left/right dominance and unequal legs determine that without reference points one would tend to walk in circles.

Which came first, the physiological anomalies or the stroll?

So if one is aware of ones natural tendencies, one therefore might use freewill and compensate.

But then one might overcompensate and walk in opposite circles.

Nonetheless one might therefore suggest that awareness provoked a determinism to compensate/overcompensate.

And notwithstanding that the initial stroll, circular or otherwise, would have been a determined event.

Dogma is easy.

One is one's own authority.

Athias says so Athias must be correct.

Zed says so Zed must be correct.

Ignorance and made up explanations.

And star gazing is good for sure.

As is convening with nature.

And I do both.

But without the need to make up GODs.

We all have needs I suppose.

And Stonehenge is interesting archaic architecture.

I'll take that as a compliment.

In my opinion.

Utilising the word "belief" in a manner that befits it's definition.

Can unavoidably throw up contradictions.

As it makes no distinction between the certainty or uncertainty of data.

Belief can be both:

A certain uncertainty.

Or an uncertain certainty.

Successful people.

A typical resentment.

And then there are all the people who don't fit into your aforementioned categories.

Who don't agree with your political paranoia.

Or who might possess contrary political paranoia.

Of course, some might typically share your resentment of other peoples success.

But that's to be expected.

Mathematics can be contrived.

So if Godel desired to represent Anselm's argument mathematically.

Then he undoubtedly could.

But the exercise is worthless overthink.

If the  premise is blarney.

Is a blatant metaphysical misrepresentation.

The only logic in presenting a blatant misrepresentation in place of a fact, is to deceive.

P1. Physical GODS are not perceived.

P2. A metaphysical image or thought of a GOD could be perceived.

P3. But a GOD is not actually known to exist.

There's never any "must exist" about it.

Otherwise, anything and everything must exist.

P1. I have just quickly perceived....(As in a metaphysical thought).

P2. A trillion intergalactic octopi.

P3. Therefore a Trillion intergalactic octopi must exist.

Simple.

Bunkum is therefore real.

Therefore.........

Words is easy Athias.

Now, what is that supposed to mean?

P1. Everything that can be perceived must exist.

P2. GODS are imagined but never perceived.

P3. Therefore GODS are not actually perceived and are currently not known to exist.

One could compile similar sets of statements all day long.

Result...Temporary satisfaction.

End result....Nope.

Keep going Mr A.

And?

Anselm's argument.

Blarney.

Therefore.

Godel's argument.

Unnecessary overthink.

Godel was very good at that.

Put the two together.

And you end up with

Zero.

As ever.

Most of your comments are cryptic.

But that one was more cryptic than most.

I never wrote the question.

And you get 0 points for peeing in the woods.

Only points for peeing in the backyard.

Or peeing outdoors most of the time.

You're too quick to judge Poly.

I agree.

But this is a discussion website.

And your comment had obvious implications.

So even if you weren't implying that they should.....Why did you suggest that someone perhaps didn't "challenge yourself at all".

My question was only relative to the necessity of challenge.....Which was a statement undeniably made as a considered proposal on your part..

Strange N comment.

But anyone brandishing an AR15 over here would be charged.

We're more integrated and less paranoid over here.

And we don't make ridiculous pleas to an outdated constitution every time it's suggest that we give up our toys.

An AR15 is nothing more than a phallic extension.

You suggested that Sadolite might not challenge himself.

And I questioned why should he need to.

Or why should anyone challenge themself, if they are content.

Have you actually responded to that enquiry.

Nice jibe Poly.

But I'm pretty certain that Mr E doesn't feel bullied.

He's as thick skinned as me.

Are you OK Mr E?

You just went BOOM.

Maybe so.

But Icelanders dressing up as Vikings and pretending to worship mythical Norse Gods is very much LARP.

And for sure, clergy dressing for effect is all part of the show.

Love that.

Did you get it from the  Karma Sutra?

Only joking.

I would assume that low birth-rates are relative to culture, rather than to a lack of potential.

A reasonable concept.

Though, does a modified action become a new action.

Is every action frozen in time?

And is every new action relative to a separate moment in time.

Random thoughts.

Why should Sadolite challenge himself, if he is content with what he has?

And I'm not sure that your driving analogy is at all equivalent.

Could you please elaborate?

The "they" Doc.

Who actually are "they".

Conspiracy theorists always blame the "they".

So if I locked you in an enclosed room with a group of covid infected "they".

Would it not be normal for you to be fearful?

Similarly, if I didn't lock you in a room with a group of infected "they".

And left you on your backwoods veranda with your moonshine, your banjo and your pot of lucky shamrock.

Would it not be normal for you not to be fearful?

Normal is whatever it might be at the time Doc.

I bet that fear soon became the New Normal for Caleb Wallace and H Scott Apley......To name but two.

An unlikely statistic.

Do you have any impartial survey data to back up that claim?

It's what we refer to as historical re-enactment Poly.

Not unlike popular theism.

In fact just like popular theism.

Put on your best clothes and chant a lot.

And perhaps even process and attempt to look meaningful.

I prefer to ride my bike.

I put on my best cycling clobber and attempt to look sleek.

What about you Poly?

Do you enjoy dressing up when you're doing your polytheistic stuff?

It all boils down to the theist declaring this: 

And atheists have no reason to respond, other than because they very much enjoy doing so.

But the crucial thing that you are forgetting Mr E,  is that Atheists don't believe.

And it took me minus 50 years or so, to debunk popular Middle Eastern based GODS and their associated myths and fantasies.

End of History

End of recorders then.

End of the universe maybe.

@Sadolite

Well done.

Luck and Judgement, no doubt.

Such contentment eludes most.

@Reece101

Why challenge oneself.

If challenging oneself, challenges contentment.

Yep...I thought exactly the same.

Dancing great.

Female oppression not so.

True.

#10

Extremely well stated Poly

I agree entirely.

I believe zero.

I know that you don't actually have a clue.

Throughout my entire formative educational experiences.

I was never once formally "indoctrinated" with evolutionary data.

And I doubt that the USA was any different.

On the other hand GOD tales were a regular bore.

And I also doubt that the USA was any different.

I think that you were telling paranoid porkies.

And fortunately, my Dad always put me straight.

Normal is a Nation in fear of Covid Doc.

As is denying the fact.

As is not denying the fact.

As is attempting to make a political weapon out of a virus.

As will be dying and not being here tomorrow.

Stay safe Doc.

Are phones a reason for living?

Sure, for some.....New Normal.

And Buddha

Some long since dead Eastern Guy.

Way past disagreement.

For sure, watching people do stuff is entertaining.

Ballroom dancing is the new religion for some.

Have you ever watched Sufi Muslims dancing....I think that it's absolutely enthralling.

Doesn't necessarily make the ideology any more reasonable though.

Which book Poly?

The beauty of atheism, is that one doesn't need to write fantasy stories.

We cling on for a short lifetime.

And the older we get, the more we fear change.

And everyday we have a new normal.

Though we don't always realise.

I can remember when a normal phone was in a little red building by the side of the road.

We've moved on a tad since then.

Original Sin is an example of sexual repression and the development thereof.

Ooooooo.....Put some clothes on and cover up your bits.

And Kin Punishment is just another example of how some people can be arseholes.

I strive not to personify.

I think that you are perhaps personifying for me.

And I always strive to make it clear, that when I refer to material evolution, I regard species survival and development only as a short inevitable phase of a long and inevitable process.

If it was not us then it would have been them.....Who furthered the development of matter and knowledge.

So,  intermittently stochastic perhaps.

But ultimately inevitable.

Though perhaps not ultimately ultimate.

I hypothesize that GOD principle is that which is achieved with our help, and that which re-initiates the sequence of material development.

So the possibility of an infinite sequence.

But the beginning.

Neither You, I nor EtrnlVw has a clue.