zedvictor4

#22

Well stated.

I propose RationalMadman.

Who will second this?

Only rapists when judged by todays standards.

Things were a bit different back in the day.

Twas the norm.

For sure.

Inherited data.

The transfer of "sense".

Or non-sense.

You choose Doc.

Though stone throwers are just stone throwers, and have probably always been nothing more than the stone throwers.

Being in GODS image.

Means GODS being in our image.

After all, it was us that came up with the idea in the first place.

It's not a chicken and egg conundrum.

Undeniably true Doc.

Though as we discussed on a previous occasion, the modern "troubles" are fuelled as much by criminality, as by cultural differences.

The majority are probably happy to coexist peacefully.

The small minority do not see benefit in peaceful coexistence. And unfortunately the mob is easily roused.

Those hurling bricks at the Police these days, are generally testosterone fuelled under twenties.....Most of whom probably lack any accurate knowledge of Irelands history.

It's just us and them politics again Doc.

Kyle and Joseph....Same old shit.

A. You can't kill someone from a hundred meters away with a rope, and you'd be damn lucky to do it with a knife. Similarly you would need to be damn quick to run away from a gun.... Guns are designed to be effective remote killing machines.

B. "The target is subject etc"......Obviously.

C. I have handled firearms in a military capacity.......I can remember the first time I fired live rounds from an SLR. I certainly experienced a  sense of power, fear and an intense need for self control.

The weapons effect is a known psychological phenomena, which we will all be subject to. How an individual manages such emotions will depend upon a variety of factors.

D.

That's all right then?

Guns can't decide or do anything.....Someone does or doesn't pull the trigger. 

But hey whatever can be used for the gun lobby propaganda, right? 

Regards.

As I said to ILikePie5....Nice but impossible.....You've got what you've got and no collective will to do any different.

Shared intent then....Guns just make it easy.....Though unpremeditated defence would be more luck than judgement, even for the best gunslinger.....Though my previous comment was with regard to any method of murderous intent, in relation to homicide rates.....And of course, random killings is random killings and guns make this modus operandi very easy.

But as I said the issue isn't intent per se.....The issue is guns.....Devices designed with specific outcomes in mind.

And of course the psychological effect that the handling of weapons induces, especially guns......Known as the weapons effect.....Seemingly a day to day aspect of the collective U.S. consciousness......Guns make you feel powerful and therefore safe.....Same as the other person though......A false sense of security as it were, based upon an acquired sense of insecurity.

So you survive and John Doe cops it....So what....Same difference as far as the neutral observer is concerned.....And there's millions of  people in the U.S that won't give either you or John Doe a second thought.

Nice but impossible.

Humans aren't programmed to be that sensible.

Democracy is an inherited and modified state of mind, which started in Greece and generally moved North and West, plus a few colonial outliers.

You're not taking social evolution into account.

And nowadays "Patriot" doesn't quite mean the same as it once did.

You and others probably just want things the way that you want them....But even you and them will never completely agree.

So you either have something that is reasonably democratic....Or something that is unreasonably monocratic.

Spot on Poly.

That's what I keep telling theists.

So when has the U.S. ever seriously attempted to regulate firearms?

There are no real comparisons to be made.

And for sure, if someone is intent on killing you, they will do so.

Murderous intent isn't the issue though.

Well....U.S. Taliban history is a debate in itself.

And no, I'm never much of a celebrant.

Though I do think that Joe made a very wise decision to pull out.

History should have told you that you would ultimately achieve nothing.

The U.S. originally went there as a knee jerk reaction to the twin towers, and was chasing ghosts ever since.

And who is celebrating?....It's was all there in black and white.....Forgotten and now confined to history....So move on.

I will need to think about that statement Doc.

Haven't the time this morning.

You are perhaps aware of my views on religious labelling.

As I said.

Real within a context.

Whether or not the Bible accurately relates to real events.....I have no idea, and know way of knowing.

That's where you don't quite get me.

Because a statement such as "Britain has very much to feel guilty about".

Is a generalization relating to historical events, that by it's very historical nature, will never be able to prick my conscience.

I feel no guilt whatsoever for the injustices perpetrated by others in the past....No matter where they might have originated from.

Nonetheless, I certainly would never celebrate, when a person is gunned down in the street.

@Tarik

Everything is real within a context.

Even morality, which is predicated on human data assessment and variously opinionated output.

And GODS too.

The bad guy will out.

No getting away from that.

But in terms of gun law, gun accessibility and gun fever there's no comparison.

Police...Same as everywhere else I expect.

2021 now.

I don't live in the past.

But hopefully we learn from it.

Still not relevant to my initial comments though.....Or is it?

It's just another school shooting ludo.

What else do you expect.

It's what Americans vote for.

So presumably, a Single GOD has to multi-task Poly.

Doing the oceans, wind and thunder all at the same time, as it were.

Though, given omniscience, omnipotence and all that.

One would expect a GOD to have all that sort of stuff, controlled from a central operations facility.

With a sexy Angel or two flitting about....

You know fluffy wings and white lingerie.

Or is that me fantasising?

Bugger standing around huffing and puffing all day.

That's old school GOD work Poly.

Odd inconclusive statement Doc.

And to be fair, I've never regarded you as arrogant.......Just typical old school "White" America.....We're essentially just products Doc.

Europe, UK and consequently the Americas are racial fusions or mongrel nations, and it all started way back Doc. And there was a whole load of racial conflict along the way.

IMHO you're getting a bit hung up on skin and features, relative to the sensory perception of difference Doc.

And once again to be fair, it's impossible to override this process.....One just has to learn how to manage it in the context of society.

And the gullible can easily be induced to riot.

Riots are all the work of protagonists and their antagonism.

Stay at home, put your feet up and leave the rioting to the rioters, is my advice Doc.

Let the Police sort it out....It's what they are paid to do.

Nothing to do with pride.

I've been on this site for quite a while now, so you should have some idea of where I'm coming from in terms of personal ideology.

History is history and today is today.

And contentment is everything.

And happy is a fleeting thing.

And my initial sentiments in this thread were nothing to do with wars and colony...As Doc well knows.

They were simply a conscience pricker....And worked a treat.

And Doc....Your most recent jibe, really needs a lot more consideration.

All GODS come from the imagination Poly.

No harm in that.

Yep sounds a bit like Afghanistan Doc.

And previously Iraq.

And Vietnam.

And Korea.

Same old shit.

We never learn do we Doc?

Yep, I agree.....As is "Postmodernism".

That was really what I was driving at initially.

Though cristo71 is clearly interested more in the philosophy of assumed political ideology....So I was just trying to engage.

Social evolution is what it is....And will become what it will become.....And will effect accompanying generations along the way.

Obviously not Doc.

Though we had race wars for hundreds of years prior to 1919.....Deaths, too many to know.

What it all boils down to though, is social development Doc.

Who knows when the first associated death occurred.

And who knows when the last one will be.

We will understandably tend to dwell on recent past events.

Though even WW2 is becoming just an historical fact for modern generations.

What is Postmodernism?

Other than an esoteric description of what has become a  popular aspect of modern culture.

What I was suggesting, was that far left does have the potential to become far right....And I think that history proves this.

Though at the current moment, how we interpret such things, largely depends upon which side of the fence one assumes to viewing from.

As someone who as a rule, likes to sit on the fence....I don't currently see anything particularly disconcerting, that cannot be adapted to.

"Postmodernism" as I previously suggested, will be an ongoing evolutionary trend....Largely dictated by technological advancements...And I don't really see a reversal of this trend.....Quite the opposite in fact.

Lets face it..... Material evolution is what it is.....And humans are accompanying blobs of organic goo....Albeit thinking.

Responsible for what?

Perhaps you should be holding someone in China responsible...Fat lot of good that would do, I know.

Vaccination shouldn't be mandatory.

And idiots shouldn't be allowed to work in hospitals.

If only it were that simple.

What is it that you think he might be doing, that's not doing anything?

Do you think that if Donald were still here, the virus would have done a runner?

Philosophical Bullshit, always has been a far left war against reality.

And Postmodern always is Postmodern....It's a time and people thing.

It's just us and them cristo.

Always has been.

Just keep going around and around.

And right becomes left, and left becomes right.....And so on.

@Tarik

Freudian slip there Tarik.

You're implying that your specific version of GOD is a person.

Albeit irregular.

So what's the point of the game then Tarik.

Are we just it's play things?

Biden isn't not doing anything.

It's people not doing anything that is the problem.

Oh, and quite a nasty viral pathogen.

And the purpose of a vaccine is......?

The Queen?

Just a woman, Trade.

Blimey Doc.

I think that this Island imported racial violence long long ago.

And of course, race isn't just about the tone of ones skin.

And for sure, we and the rest of Europe then turned around and exported it over to the New World.

And then you and us have been taking it around the World ever since.

Such is what it still is to be human Doc.

Good to know Doc.

Nice.

Funnily enough, I find cycling very positive.

Sorry though.

Must have hit some G-spots in the conscience department.

Wasn't ours in the first place Doc.

Just borrowed it for a while.

Sound short term investment.

Soft re-jibe Doc.

You're way too nice.

Depending on point of view.

Both Atheists and Theists can be regarded as bigots.

You're clearly stoically biased Poly, and therefore inevitably, somewhat bigoted.

Whereas I accept  people for the conditioned units that they have become.

Happy Thanksgiving.

And spare a thought for those brutally gunned downs on the streets of the USA.

Now go eat yourself senseless.....It's what GOD would have wanted for sure.

Oh.

And entertainment for sure.

But always sincere.

I know Doc.

Biased but sensible.....Hopefully.

I'm  hoping, that you keep your AR15 well and truly locked away. 

I'm not sure what it is that you cannot avoid Doc.

Hopefully it's not the inspirationalists dogma.

Hopefully it's the inevitability of Yin and Yang.

So family.

Not that I'm actually suggesting that a certain tale is true, but rather that a certain tale is analogical.  

If you consider the Adam and Eve story, then you would perhaps understand what I mean by family.

Of course, and notwithstanding that Adam and Eve were eventually usurped in the tale by Noah et al......Another issue though.

Choosing to ignore as a teenager, I would suggest is typically...Teenage behaviour.....We variously try to establish alternative identities  during this period of physiological development.

Then choosing to reaffirm you acceptance, albeit on slightly different tack, is nonetheless underpinned by your formative conditioning.

Whereas my conditioning was underpinned formatively in an atheist environment......Not that I realised at the time....Our religion was the land and making a living from it....The Church was just an old stone building down the road, and the clergy we lazy parasites....Not that I continue to regard the clergy as parasites...Just   misinformed people. 

And if you can't find a GOD

Then how can you know a GOD?

This is clearly an ongoing contradiction of yours Trade.

Though the reason for your contradictory ideology is obvious to me.....It's what's known as conditioning Trade.

Morning Trade.

Upset....I don't do upset Trade.

I do early morning Debateart entertainment.

I was surprised at your inability to understand what I meant by family....Though I'm guessing that you probably didn't try....Ah well.

And Woke....As far as I am concerned, woke means awake...So I'll take it as a compliment....And hence, my dreamland re-jibe.

And for sure, I learned to ignore Christianity 50  or more years ago....And you learned the opposite.....Conditioning Trade.

And I know that it's not possible to find a real GOD....That's what I keep telling you Trade....So we've concluded the morning in agreement then...Nice.