zedvictor4

The double slit experiment produces a result, that shows that the double slit experiment produces a result....Which is what one would expect.

Objective morality and nihilism are both suppositions....As such they can neither be correct nor incorrect.

And one assumes that your suppositions are based upon a primary supposition, that also cannot be proven to be either correct or incorrect.

So all very fallacious and not particularly axiomatic.

Still going strong

But still the same old word games Tarik.

I think too much and therefore I worry about things unduly.

It's an evolved specialism.

A side effect of ....I think a lot and therefore I learn how to do things.

Preordained?....Maybe.

This is just a flippant,  throwaway remark.

Hate and Love are words we overuse when we can't come up with any better words to use.

Current Europeans are Inferior to U.S. derivatives ....Is that what you are suggesting.

I hope that you are not putting Mr Trump forward, as an example.

Though in the hair and orange department, Trump beats Johnson for sure.

So...Harry and Meg's or Will's and Kate ....Who, do you think, got the best deal.

Where's ronjs?

Most American supremacist's are European derivatives.

All those over zealous, religious types, in boats, subjugating Johnny foreigner.

You remember?

For sure Doc....The same  evidence and reasoning that all  theistic offshoots of Middle Eastern folklore would attest to.

"One true" is just your conditioned bias.

Event and duration, require space and matter....Time is the duration of the event....Simple cosmic concept.

Space, matter and time....Call it a cosmic trinity.

Spacetime is just a compound, astrophysical buzzword that describes the above....Things occur in space over a period of time.

Time and Space are intangible so therefore do not require creation.

Can we also confidently say that matter does not require creation?

If there was no matter would time and space  not be possibilities?

I probably wouldn't shudder with excitement.

Faith is a simple concept.

Faith is trusting something that you cannot be 100% certain of.

And anyone that says that they can be 100% certain of the existence of a GOD, is lying.

I am currently, approximately 99.9% certain that I am what I am.... An existent mass.....Nonetheless, the fundamental basis of my mass is a complete mystery.

Do I have faith in other things?......Obviously....Or  I would be too scared to do anything.

Though I can certainly, not be certain that everything will always go as expected.

One faith is Catholicism....(Well not strictly true.)

Though how you would determine "right"..... I'm not certain.

Maybe dirty old celibates and child abuse are two of the criteria?

Simple cosmic truths are easy to understand......Complex cosmic hypotheses less so.

"EGO" .....Is your expectancy, that everyone else should know what you are going on about.

And to realise the ability (potential) of time and space, matter is required.....Simple....But too simple for you it would seem.

The proof and evidence of which or what GODS existence?

Do you simply mean one of the Middle Eastern folklore derivatives?

As a sceptic..... I will run with the idea of an unknown universal GOD principle.

But I won't give any credence to the idea of a floaty about bloke, who f**cks married virgins and then buggers off.

You've moved.

Eternally existent, is acceptance, because that is all we currently have...

Event and duration require three things Time, Space and Matter.....Other corruptions of the words time and space, relate to other theoretical stuff that I don't need to get bogged down in.

The basic principle of time, simply allows an event to have duration....Potential

The basic principle of space, simply allows an event to occur.....Potential

Neither basic principle, requires further explanation.

Only matter requires explanation, and we currently have no explanation for it's existence, other than...Matter is, therefore it can't not be....

I think therefore I am refers to  instinctive knowledge.

Which is not to say that the actual phrase "I think therefore I am" does not require externally acquired data. 

Don't get hung up on the phrase and ignore the basic function.

True and ongoing.

Two good answers.

Belief is uncertainty, no matter how certain we think we are.

I think therefore I am, as far as we are able to know, is our internal reality....How did I supersede this axiom.

And as far as we are able to know, eagles are, and they fly, and we are not flying eagles.....Though all of this information requires secondary processes to be able to reach a conclusion....The acquisition and manipulation of external data.

What actually is belief?

Other than a word that vaguely describes an individuals data output relative to their conditioned state of mind.

A theist is your next door neighbour, who doesn't necessarily share the same hobbies, but who nonetheless, you get along just fine with.

There are also obsessive single-minded theists who rant and rave, just like there are obsessive, single minded cyclists who go on and on......Such are people....Best to just politely ignore their obsessions and discuss the weather.

In your biased Guadeloupean opinion Doc.

Though in my British opinion, not quite such an unmitigated political disaster as the Orange Clown.

Though in terms of entertainment Obama didn't posses quite the same ability to make people both laugh and cry.

All that the orange guy needed was big shoes and stripy socks and he could have sold hamburgers to the world.

And then there was Dubya......Nice guy but also out of his political depth.

Did I actually assert that "the mind supersedes reality"?

Or is this your own construct?

Ok....In simple terms... Space and time are intangible potentials that do not necessarily need explanation. 

Essentially "Universe" is matter, and the ongoing potential, development, evolution of matter....The limited potential of matter to occupy a space within a given time. 

So.... If we accept that matter can be reduced to both a  finite micro-state and ultimately only expand to  a finite macro-state.... And if we also accept that matter cannot be destroyed, then it's fair to suggest that the process of initiation-development-collapse would be ongoing...Ergo sequential.

So at some point there is a re-initiation...The ultimate point of universal collapse and re-birth....The GOD principle.

I merely suggest that the GOD principle may require a facilitator.....Knowledge......The purpose of evolution and the development of intelligence therein.

Nonetheless....Time and space are just potential, whereas matter is tangible....So despite physical "laws" it is impossible for me to accept that matter (or a creator being) could exist ad infinitum....Even though this does seem to be the only solution.   

Something from absolute nothing, is the toughie that exceeds all explanation.

Some might regard "faith" as wishful thinking.

And who are we?.....We are here.....And as far as we are able to know, a GOD isn't.

Faith or knowledge.....Your choice.

I originally had a profile.....But it disappeared at some point, and I've never got around to re-doing it.

The mind as a part of and contained within the mass can desire....We know that

Any implication was yours to make.

Mr Ebuc......Not that I ever understand, but you got me thinking.

So with reference to the idea of a universal GOD principle (Not the specific floaty about bloke, of Middle Eastern folklore).

The principle.... That is an ongoing, physical, universal process (material evolution), in which organic intelligence plays a vital role and therefore gives us, as a universal species, an inevitable, pre-ordained purpose.

I would, be contradicting this simple hypothesis,  if I didn't accept that the purpose of the GOD principle is also our purpose.....Which is the perpetuation of a universal sequence.

As such the purpose of the GOD principle is the re-initiation of the sequence....And the role of organic intelligence within that sequence is it to facilitate the re-establishment of the GOD principle.....GOD-Material Evolution-GOD...Etc. Etc. Etc.

And the development of other, less fragile Alternative  Intelligence's would seem to be the way forward...... Whether or not we will be along for the complete ride....Might or might not be a necessary consideration.

Nonetheless, despite the unlimited possibility of the universal sequence, there is still an unanswered magical, GODLESS beginning to consider.

So.

It would be point enough for me.

Why?... Good question....Primarily because that is how we are pre-programmed, and also how such messages are usually enforced when we are children.

Yep..... A vivid imagination.....One that assumes to know a specific GOD, and also assumes to know what a specific GOD is thinking.

Theism is the power of the mind to imagine.

The power of the human mind is what we have.

"I am what"?......Me and nothing else.

If there is a GOD, then it's purpose would be it's purpose. Whereas your purpose is earthbound and inside your head. Imagining the purpose of an unknowable GOD, is just that.

Why bother to try and prove anything to someone that does not value you....Just ignore them.

As I stated. "love" is up for discussion......My respect and devotion for my wife and daughters, isn't challengeable......Such respect and devotion, and all associated functions and processes far exceeds the glib use of the label "love".

The word vivid has multiple definitions....So read you trusted dictionary.

An interesting discussion...Though you constant need to over egg the theistic custard....Is unnecessarily corrupting the purity of  Secular's basic axiom.

Axiom....I think therefore I am.

Secondary, speculative data output.....I am, therefore I create a GOD.

Do you have any sisters?

The concept of a GOD and it's assumed function and requirements, gives you a purpose....No one is arguing with that.....As I said people will find purpose in all sorts of activities. Nonetheless, your earthbound and humanly contrived activities. are no more or less valid than a surfers for example.

"Why?"....Because we are conditioned that way....But I'm sure that someone must value you, and hopefully some one values me too.....No GOD required.

I also love rhubarb crumble and custard....Yum Yum....Love is a label that we apply whimsically in response to all sorts of stuff.....Another discussion perhaps.

And you summed up, pretty well too.....Not seeing the wood for the tress, as it were......Focussing vividly on an unknowable religious ethos, and not recognising the known reality of the human condition.

Why do you need to prove objective morality?

Tarik the nihilist....Nope...Because you must have a purpose, or you wouldn't bother to keep arguing over how to label philosophical concepts.

And nihilism is just another label for just another philosophical concept....And humans variously regard and apply varying standards of cooperation and respect towards each other. There is no Earthbound set of moral standards, let alone a known universal standard.

And everything either does or does not have a pre-ordained purpose.....We don't actually have an answer to this one, but some people such as myself speculate, and some people speculate more vividly that others.....Nonetheless, in either case a pre-ordained moral standard is a secondary level of speculation.

And even if there is no pre-ordained universal purpose, the known existence of everything is significant enough in itself, and will still instil a sense of purpose in humanity.

So why might you find this less vivid set of data output so unreasonable?

You've lost me there.

What do you think that I was aiming at?

And what do you think you were wrong about?

And what don't I have an answer for?

The universe is.

And currently the laws of logic are bound by human cognition.

To suggest universal cognition, is just that...And not necessarily necessary.

I'm saying that neither will make much difference to your current life style, other than having to minimally adjust your budget...And I'm also say that their are bigger issues to tackle.

A quick fix for you, now, might be nice...But quick fixes will not necessarily address longer term problems for your great grand children.

And you cannot  prove the opposite......Which is my ongoing point.

Every bit of data that you and I output is internally contrived from acquired and stored data.....Our own version of things, irrespective of content.

Though I would suggest, that attempting to prove objective morality is really a secondary issue, as far as you are concerned....And that was what my previous inference was aimed at.

Maybe that's just what you want to believe.

How does a dead person recount tales of an afterlife experience?........ALE

Because that's what you are actually trying to say......But what you are saying never quite adds up.

ND is not dead....To recount an experience a person must recover...Therefore an ND person, no matter how minimal their function and living processes might be, is still capable of producing dream like experiences or hallucinations.

So depending upon how one chooses to interpret the evidence, it's never going to be possible to pin down a living answer....So we will have to wait until we die.

Hopefully you won't be disappointed.

There is toady and then there is tomorrow to consider.

A quick fix for you toady, is what it is.

How, do you think, a few more dollars on you pay check next month, will benefit your Great Grandchildren?

And the Guy's only been in office for 19 days....He's probably got more pressing things to think about at the moment.

I'm sure that you will survive.....As long as you don't live next door to  a right wing extremist, whose got a basement full of ammo, a fridge full of cheap beer and a head full of conspiracy theories.....Only joking.....Just spray your self orange and you will be ok.....Unless.......

A lot to consider.

But nonetheless, nothing to affect the bottom line.... Death is Death.

ND and subsequent recovery is not death.

And "hours later" was left a grey area....As autolysis is a rapid and almost instantaneous process that occurs after actual  death.

So an NDE is just that, and may be a normal physiological response in ND situations.....

And your argument is the same old, ongoing, non-evidential, "default" position that never achieves a factual  result.

You attempt to prove something...But you cannot.

I do not attempt to prove anything....Because I do not need to.

I just continue to question your acquired but unsubstantiated data.

Same old, same old.

Eternal happiness doing what?

And ask people what gives their lives purpose.

And no heaven no data....Nope, no data no heaven.

And the only plot as far as we know it, is birth, life and death.

Afterlife is speculation....And assuming to have actual knowledge of an afterlife, is fantasy.

Nonetheless... Hypothesising, I would suggest continuity rather that eternity, and the human purpose therein would be to instigate and advance a process of knowledge and material development, to achieve the ultimate principle of knowledge necessary to ensure continuity.

No idling around in a heaven somewhere with stupid grins on our faces, for eternity.

Money....Funny old thing is money......And money is also oppressive.....For a reason perhaps.

Money dependency maybe a widespread issue......And contentment doesn't necessarily come with lots of it.

Oh...And of course there are also hormones to consider.....Hormones are also oppressive.....For a reason though

Though primary drives often get overlooked these days....As we pose, well groomed and well suited, in our smart cars, outside our smart homes with our smart partners, and our smart phones... Taking selfies with the new addition to the family....Our smart new puppy.

Oh...And politics is on the T.V.........But if you feel so inclined and have a lot of testosterone or progesterone to placate.....You can dress up in your smart pseudo-military gear and go march and shout about it.....Politics that is, and conspiracy theories too, if you are so hormonally and intellectually challenged.

At my age though....I know where I would prefer to be.

Yep...I'm apt to agree with a lot of that.

Though I would suggest, that perhaps the purpose of organic intelligence is  preordained, and a necessary phase of an evolutionary, universal sequence.

And perhaps also, to be superseded by a more logical and less fragile Alternative Intelligence, less prone to stupidity.

As long as the information gets out there, it will eventually matter very little, what happens to life on Earth.

As I see it, the GOD principle has only one current objective.....And that is not, to be worshipped by stupid humans....But to be perpetuated by clever humans.

 

Nihilist is a word that says a lot but means very little.

Well....Other than in your bible the dictionary.

Peoples lives have various purposes and and therefore ongoing meaningfulness....They don't need you and your books to tell them how to think.

And as it stands realistically, heaven is a meaningless assumption....Though some people might derive comfort from the idea of a heaven.....Such is how we manipulate data.

Though I would suggest that pinning your hopes on an afterlife in a heaven, is somewhat missing the plot...And also a tad, wishful thinking.

But if that is how the database has been programmed.

Nonetheless if you are so certain of a heaven and have all the relative facts....Then tell me what can one hope to achieve there?....What is ones purpose in heaven?