zedvictor4

Today the bigger issue is far more about the cost of expectation, rather than about the cost of living.

Can't afford to look after the kids properly, but can somehow afford to possess and run all the latest techno gadgetry.

Blue and Red...That's just the same old us and them bills**t.

Hmmmmm.....Moderate anarchy.

And who monitors and regulates  the private security contractors etc.

The founding Fathers would be completely out of their depth in today's society...The same principles just do not apply today.....Just as British 19th century principles do not apply today.

Living in the past is something of a human failing. it's one of the drawbacks of memory.

Within the context of today's more complex society, old fashioned values are just not applicable. You're sort of expecting 380 million people to get along just fine with minimal fuss....You've absolutely no chance.

Ultimately, what we achieve in life is down to us. Britain and the U.S are free and opportunistic societies, and continually blaming governments for our own problems is par for the course, even if they're the governments we voted for.............You try complaining to the private security guy.

I would suggest that what you think you want, is what you already have.

Though, I would further suggest that what you have is a little less chaotic than what you think you want.

Brain function....The acquisition, storage, manipulation and output of data....Faith and scepticism are two labels that we apply to bits of this process.

There's hard work and there's hard work.

Some hard work gets rewarded more than other hard work does....Such is inequality.

Money and associated greed is a completely different issue to hard work.

What is a prophet other than a manipulative and highly opinionated person?

And what is a disciple other than a gullible hanger on?

And most people want a quite life, but prophets and their disciples have a tendency to want to f**k things up.

Faith is one aspect of internal data management............As is scepticism.

In your opinion, but your opinion is understandably biased.

You're conflating old prejudices and current day regional politics.

Which doesn't alter the fact that the U.S. and Europe needs Turkey on it's side.

Also: Turkey is a nation of over 80 million people, most of whom desire a peaceful existence. Nonetheless human nature is such that old prejudices and fears get handed down from generation to generation, and in this respect Turkey is no different to Greece, and so most Turks will be as biased as most Greeks are.

How limited?

There's a fine line between order and chaos.

How do you address the needs and differing ideologies of 330 million individual people.

Who manages and coordinates things such as infrastructure and resources, national and global aspirations, defence etc.

I'm assuming that was a tongue in cheek remark.

We all know that the bible is a myth based hypothesis, compiled by a succession of blokes over a long period of time.

What's the alternative to government?

Energy is something.....2D is nothing.

And ebuccube may or may not be either a genius or a joker.....You decide.

One either appreciates a liberal society or one doesn't I suppose.

Are there no backwoods, guns or banjo's in the south?

There's always a big club.

Meritocracy is just hierarchy in another guise. How one enforces meritocracy ultimately becomes the same as in any other socio-political system. Liberally or strictly or anywhere in between.

How do you think things will pan out in the future, with a burgeoning population more and more dependant on technology?...Do you think that a meritocratic system would be viable?

I personally think that the days of workable meritocracy have long since passed.

Socialism in peoples heads perhaps. Just because they do not agree with opposition politics doesn't make U.S. society any less hierarchical.

Fungible....Nice word, but not really in context.....Only humanness in general, but the equivalence stops there.

Inheritance (assuming you mean material inheritance) and nepotism are inevitable factors of a liberal society, to remove such privileges would be to enforce true socialism, and I doubt that many U.S . citizens fancy that style of social authoritarianism....Though Mr Trump seems pretty keen on emulating the Russian model....Though the Russian model is sort of authoritarian liberal corruption....Trump maybe?

I think  what some people despise, is liberalism.....The  old fuddy duddies. 

Do you live in the backwoods, have a cupboard full of guns and play the banjo?

You cannot ignore Turkey.

It's a valuable ally to have in between Arabia and Europe, and also a relatively stable society.

After the U.S and it's buddies went in and f*cked up Iraq and Syria, it's Turkey that we relied upon to resolve the bulk of the ensuing humanitarian crisis.

Perhaps Islamophobia, typical of insular American conditioning, is your real issue....In fairness I expect that a lot of Turks have a similar Christianophobic view of Americans.

Thankfully both nations currently  have a reasonably broad minded leadership....Capable of seeing the wood from the trees as it were.

Midnight here in the U.K.....So off to bed

Good night.

Ranch is good.

Natural hierarchy is dictated by the capability of the individual.

People are just not equal.

That is why hypothetical (true) socialism is unachievable, and why all attempts at such, have always failed catastrophically.

"Ethical badness" is something of a contradiction.

And immorality is the opposite of morality,  both of which are individual or collective decisions regarding the behaviour of other individuals or groups. Morality is very much a human thing and we probably on consider morals because we can. Which is perhaps a good thing though, as we would probably end up eating our neighbours kids and f**king everything that moved or vice versa......Though some would argue that this is a good thing.... Such is the variability of morals.

And a splash of dressing.

Survival necessitates the extinguishing of life......It's how we derive nutrition.............I don't fancy eating mud.

Vegetarians  just have a thing about extinguishing, cute fluffy life. 

And vegans....Well vegans are just out to impress, with their synthetic leather sandals......No qualms when it comes to  murdering innocent strawberries though....Hypocrites.

Do you not make sponge cake in the U.S?

Flour, butter or equivalent fat, sugar eggs all mixed together and then baked.

And pizza dough is so easy to make, and free from all those nasty preservative and additives. The same nasty stuff that you get in processed meat.

And don't forget the side salad.

Pineapple is much better topped with sponge and served hot with vanilla ice cream.

And pizza is far far, better if you make it yourself. 

Though if your pushed for time, thin and crispy with a veg topping...plenty of olives.

Definitely no processed meat.....But a few anchovies are permissible. 

Well a worldview is a worldview and needn't cost a penny....There are probably 7.6 billion possible different worldviews.

Using money to promote and enforce an uncertain ideology is not really promoting a worldview. It's really all about domination and control. The ideology itself becomes largely irrelevant, other than as a tool of control.

Which is what we do to our kids.  We  dominate and try to control their view of the world from our particular world viewpoint. We selfishly do not want them to decide for themselves.

Though as I have already suggested we might eventually be outsmarted by our own smartness....namely technology, and the obvious influence it has upon how as we now look at the world....Everything is out there and available at the swipe of a finger....Who needs to be ranted at by a zealot talking gibberish, these days?

Yep. That's the uncertainty of everything.

Nothing and something are both onefold I assume.

And the process required therein is another.

That's three

Or perhaps two

Or perhaps one.

Is ZERO actually possible?

What is "World Wealth" in real terms....How does one define world wealth.

Does anything  other than a few transient  human organisms, care about such a concept?

Yep.

Money...The one cohesive God we all worship hey.....Now that's a global worldview.

I agree that all worldviews are out there and cannot and should not be supressed. That's a different issue.

My contention is that school should  be about equality, diversity and tolerance rather than separatism. 

Though are religious fantasies really a worldview?.....I suppose God is no different to Santa Claus.....Though, outcomes have a tendency to be less harmful.

Ebuc speak....Are you one and the same....Ergo Ego.

Semitic is a word that describes a regional culture and it's associated people.

Anti-semitism is something of a popular myth.  And simple refers to a specific intolerance....Humans are good at intolerance.

The westernised bible is a corruption of a Semitic myth/culture as is the name Simon Peter....Just pointing out this simple fact in response to your simple proposition.

So:   If  "left Wing Progressives" and their associated worldview, want to set up their own school for their own children then that's ok. (What ever a "Left Wing Progressive" might be. Perhaps they have two heads and six legs.)

Where does this end?....World view encompasses ideology in all forms....How tolerant of radical worldviews are you?  Or is this just a case of all worldviews are equal but some worldviews are more equal than others.

The bottom line is that factional ideologies are divisive and serve no real educational purpose other than to proliferate divisive worldviews.  Which is what has been happening for millennia and clearly doesn't work in terms of a tolerant and cohesive world.

And let's be honest, no matter how well engrained a persons theistic beliefs or worldviews have become. Theism in all forms is still nonetheless, archaic, myth based unprovable hypothesis.....Historical value maybe, but even the value of teaching about the past is debateable.

Personally I cannot see the value of conditioning children with a  2000 year old worldview in the 21st century....China for example is no longer a mysterious and inaccessible place on the other side of the world. China is now only the click of a button away. Conditioning our children to believe that they are different from Chinese children just isn't a benefit to the advancement of a now global society...So teaching our kids that they are different from the kids down the street is just plain backwards thinking and frankly a quite stupid way of carrying on in a Nation that probably considers itself to be a progressive world participant.

Well as I see it "Church" is a bit like riding a bike, it should be something that people choose to do when the basic day to day chores are out of the way. And lets be honest some people are just as passionate (religious) about a chosen sport or leisure activity as others are about theist ideas.

The overwhelming problem for me is that Theism is a collection of diverse and unproven "worldviews" and rigidly conditioning young minds with such uncertain ideas is socially counter-productive. Here in the U.K. the destructive divisions created by the enforced teaching of Catholic and Protestant dogma in faith schools has been all too apparent.

The problem also with an unproven and diverse choice of  "world view" is the  inevitable overspill from pure theist hypotheses into conflicting ideas and dictates of social governance. Just look at how the anti-abortion lobby is dominated by religious groups in the U.S. and yet pure theism makes no such judgements. That is to say, that theism always tends  to try and exceed it's hypothetical parameters and dominate or influence the rules of social governance.

And so my questions to you are, that given the availability  and accessibility of theist ideas anyway, why do you see the need to enforce a system of theism based social separatism upon vulnerable young children?  Are you suggesting that the needs of an uncertain "Church" are greater or more important than the needs of a cohesive and real-time society?

 

Explain.

I don't understand American speak.

I was just pointing out that Simon Peter is an anglicised corruption of a Semitic myth, as is the English version of the Christian bible.

As was the cockerel.

Cock-a-doodle-doo.

Forgot to tag you above. #134

Daren't say too much as I might get sued. And for the record this is only a personal opinion based upon limited circumstantial evidence.

But,  just research systemic pesticides and relate that to the high incidence of pancreas and liver tumors,  especially in dogs.

Very few dogs seem to make it beyond 8-10 years anymore.

I second that.

The cosmic trinity is simply.....TIME...SPACE...MATTER.

Time and space do not require creation, whereas you would assume that matter did.

WTF "ego" has got to do with anything, I do not know.

A Cairn Terrier, Jack Russell cross.....Yep a tortoise is less demanding than a turtle.....Had a cat until recently, but won't replace him, as I have now come to regard  cats as having a negative impact upon small mammal and songbird numbers.

A word of advice gained through experience......Never use "spot on" flea or worm treatments on dogs or cats.

Smart is as smart does.

Though, acceptance without proof is somewhat less reliable than radiometric dating.

Interesting how "Westerners" feel the need to Anglicise Semitism.....it's sort of Anti-Semitic.

It's one of those hobbies where you get enthusiasts and then you get people who splash out a lot of dosh only to quickly loose interest. I would suggest you chat to some enthusiasts and decide if you're really one of them.....The good thing about cats is there's not a whole lot of water management involved....Nonetheless, keeping  animals needs to be a 100% commitment, so just don't go there on a whim.

I have a dog, and I also a tortoise I found about 30 years ago.....Now, if you want an undemanding pet, look no further than a tortoise.

Nice....... So like me you attempt to be a realist?.....Based upon  assumptions of reality, derived from that which we perceive and therefore assume to be real.

It's not easy substantiating realism, without being accused of contradiction.

Perception is assumed reality, and the best stab at reality we have available.....Belief is acceptance without certainty, and so only notionally, assumed sense.

So is everything an assumption?

Ego is I suppose.

As ever.

@ Tradesecret

Well starting at the end and working backwards:

Firstly, when is public funding not public funding? 

Paying for ones own children's education and the choice of ethos therein, is in essence no different to accepting State provision through taxation. The difference is, that you inevitably will end up with a factional society based upon religious difference. In my opinion religion should be separate from State especially in education and especially in early years when children are at their most vulnerable and easily influenced. Let's be honest, religious information by the very nature of it's variation and uncertain origins is not a sound factual basis for the needs of a cohesive society. By far the best basis for a cohesive society is to enforce the notion of equality and that just cannot be achieved if  formative conditioning is based upon a privately funded system of religious separatism.

The academic ability and consequent social status and wealth of an individual has little to do with religion per se.  Inherent physiology, and inherited social status and it's associated influences and effects are far more important. In short there will inevitably be clever and wealthy Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists etc. Just as there will always be the opposite. In other words, natural hierarchy prevails irrespective of religion.

"Religion loves education" and "getting kids for life" yep you said it.... Religion getting kids for life is no different is to educationalists getting kids for life. Though you cannot teach religion out of people as it fundamentally is not there in the first place. Religion is taught into people, and for the reasons given above is not necessarily a benefit to the needs of a cohesive society. 

So how people "turn out" is  determined by inherent ability, inherited social status and formative and ongoing conditioning.....Natural hierarchy and what you were  taught to think by parents, family, community, school, state and media. And I would suggest that the immediacy of media through technology based information systems, is rapidly becoming the overriding conditioner of younger people. If every option is available, then kids will choose for themselves....Though on the other hand the concern is that who controls the media controls the future. Which may or may not be a good thing from a human perspective, but looks like it's inevitably the way things will evolve.

Whether or not highly evolved technology will take on board the concepts of traditional religions as an operating system seems pretty unlikely. One would imagine that pure, emotionless logic is the only way forwards.

Yep, I was certainly agreeing with this sentiment.

Yep I can agree with all that.

Though West is only really

relative to ones present location.

And I would suggest that conditioning plays a huge part in how most people eventually turn out....So how, when and more importantly where one receives ones formative conditioning will undoubtedly  have a significant influence. 

If someone were born in either the American Bible Belt or in Iran, I think that it's fair to suggest that one could quite confidently predict certain outcomes.

Of course, there are always exceptions to rules.

Are you prepared to rely on belief as a modus operandi?