zedvictor4

A written document is evidence. Though not necessarily proof of anything.

Hence a 2000 year old debate with no resolution.

The onus is on the believer of tall tales, to prove that they are not tall tales.

Typically believers will always try and avoid this little issue by shifting responsibility.

It's not a case of which came first.

Gods were invented.....Scepticism came later.

Prove the existence of a god and the time worn debate ends......Simple.

Any god will do.....It doesn't need to be the ethereal light skinned American/European version.

A four armed version will suffice.

Yep....Because you think that it is.

There is always correctness.

Some correctness is good.....but some correctness is better than other correctness...and vice versa, depending upon your point of view.

P.C. is a massive problem only if you think that it is.

And non-mythical is your assumption.....Same old same old.

What do you mean?

Explain this sin that you are so obsessed with.

What is catastrophic health?......Sounds nasty.

#60

You're desperately clutching at straws.

And: " Sin is what makes people stupid.".....Speak for yourself!

Yep #12...Old news.

The book is a book.....And the transfer of data is the transfer of data.....Or brainwashing, depending how you choose to look at it.

Which ever way you look at it, it's nonetheless an inevitable process.

Though, the hypothesis itself falls short of the mark, in the light of evolved knowledge.

The biblical compilers were rendered fallible by their own ignorance.

Well.

The Christian bible is as much a copy cat as any other mythological hypothesis. Copy cat is simply the development of ideas.

If I actually knew there was a god then I might have a chance of understanding it's real capabilities. This is not the same as understanding the mythical capabilities of a mythical god.

Death or not living is as essential as living, the two are inter-dependant.

Human emotion is and human bias is inevitable and therefore we oftentimes have a tendency to be selectively moral.. Nonetheless what is life and how do you unbiasedly differentiate between the life potential contained within one species and another, without being hypocritical.

And logic is believing in mythical deities and logic isn't believing in mythical deities....Relativism if you like.

Quite frankly, as I have said before, you are wasting your own time posting your stuff on a debating website, as most are not interested and probably no one has a clue what you are on about.

Take it to some serious scientists for real scrutiny.

O.K.

1. Meaning, value and purpose can be placed upon anything, they are not god specific qualities.....Ultimate meaning, value and purpose is only an assumption, no matter how strong ones beliefs might be.

2. As for the abortion issue.......Firstly explain what you think live is.....Not a life or a period of existence....But life.

3. The bible contains simple factual evidence, but it also contains a lot of supernatural embellishment. Therefore I prefer to regard the bible as a mythology or a naive hypothesis.  Mythologies and associated gods were once a  commonplace explanation of the unknown.

So in laymen's terms what did you just say?

Rather than explaining in simple terms you chose to further complicate or over-complicate your hypothesis....I think that this could rightly be attributed to ego.

As ever and unlike most, I make an effort to discuss with you, but you have a habit of making discussion difficult.

Yep. I agree also.

Though I prefer to say that fallible men compiled the Christian biblical hypothesis. over a long period of time.

And as a logical and sensible hypothesis, the "bible" was eventually found to fall way short of the mark.

Nonetheless, old habits of fallible people die hard.

Well.  Humans are neither 100% fallible or infallible....But what's this got to do with theistic literature per se....The question is fact or fiction, not the failings and/or abilities of it's authors.

And laying huge stones upon each other to build a structure is an achievable reality....Back breaking work for some poor bastards and the whims of self importance for others...Same as it ever was and as it still is.

Fact or fiction?....Same as it ever was and same as it still is.

Yep. I would agree that this is the best definition of love and/or unconditional love.

Other than that, love is an overused and misused epithet.....I love cycling, I love ice cream, I love donkeys etc. etc.

I love god.....How does one know if the they've never met it.....It might be a complete and utter emotionless bastard......Which it more than likely is.... Assuming  that such a principle is actually pertinent.

I'm not sure who and what you are referring to when you suggest "more Faith".

Faith has two main sub-definitions.

1. A general trust in day to day stuff....I have faith in the weather forecast etc.

2. Strong belief in doctrines of religion.

I have no strong belief in doctrines of religion, and little faith in the weather forecast....Though it is fair to say that we all need to have faith in day to day stuff, or we would never get anything done.

So can you explain, why you think that I might have more faith than you?

And I would suggest that you and more specifically your brain, derives meaning, value and purpose and attributes it to a god, relative to programmed information....In exactly the same way (process) that SkepticalOne and myself attribute meaning, value and purpose in other ways.

And furthermore, there is no factual evidence for the existence of a god, only hypothetical suggestion....Hence, you have faith and we are sceptical.

I'm not sure that you fully understand ego, but that's  a semantics issue.

Nonetheless, I would suggest that space is either finite or infinite and not both simultaneously.

Though occupied and unoccupied is logical, and so your proposition is sort of obvious if we accept the principle of ongoing universal expansion.

So: Two simple layman's questions based on the above.

1. Is matter a finite resource?

2. And if so, how does one visualise the movement pattern of matter and universe, post genesis?

Can you give me a simple, rational answer to these questions?

I agree.

The point simply is that faith, scepticism or irrationality and labelling them, are simply a bodily function that occurs within the brain.

And although religion is otherwise meaningless, it nonetheless can/does have meaning within said context. 

Yep.

But I've lost track of who it is we're supposed to be fucking.

Yep....My point was, there is no such thing as a true vacuum.

Nothing would be a true vacuum....Matter-less infinite space/macro infinite.

As such and at a basic level and from a laypersons point of view, your expansion hypothesis is sort of stating the obvious

Not necessarily.

Yep. Just as Europeans fucked the Native Americans....But that's all history now, and consigned to the past.

And Kurds just wannabe Kurds and are just as nationalistically biased and backward thinking as Turks and Greeks are.

Such is human nature.

One day perhaps we will realise that we are all human beings from Planet Earth........Fat chance!

Even the Scots don't want to be British....F**king United Nations hey.....LOL.

And present day Global politics is a different matter altogether.....Which is the point I'm actually trying to make.

Yep. I get where you're coming from.

Why after four years of personal incompetence is he still President?

Or perhaps more importantly, why after four years do the American people put up with such incompetence and why are they likely to vote him in again? 

Well, I think it's a lot to do with the innate corruptibility of the system, which is driven by the wants of the ego....Not just Trump's ego, but ego from the top down.

And why is Trump where he is and why do any Presidents get where they get?....Well, that's because they pay to get there and they pay to stretch the system to the limits of it's corruptibility.....And competence is not really a necessary requirement of the Presidential job.....Bizarrely, it's the most important job of all and yet the only necessary qualifications required are plenty of money and charisma....Try getting a cleaning job if you haven't got a mop certificate.

And who's going to vote for a nerd with a masters degree in politics and sociology......Boring.

And in reality the day to day lives of ordinary Americans, actually changes very little. So the whole Political thing is never anything other than media generated entertainment.

And it's like a football game, you pick your side, blue or red, and stick with it for life. 

How many people consider things as you and I do?.....Hopefully enough to make a difference.....Though, there's the corruptibility of the system and the habitual blinkeredness  of the ordinary American to overcome first.

What is a true vacuum? 

Because they are as deluded and cynical as he is....Simple.

Today the bigger issue is far more about the cost of expectation, rather than about the cost of living.

Can't afford to look after the kids properly, but can somehow afford to possess and run all the latest techno gadgetry.

Blue and Red...That's just the same old us and them bills**t.

Hmmmmm.....Moderate anarchy.

And who monitors and regulates  the private security contractors etc.

The founding Fathers would be completely out of their depth in today's society...The same principles just do not apply today.....Just as British 19th century principles do not apply today.

Living in the past is something of a human failing. it's one of the drawbacks of memory.

Within the context of today's more complex society, old fashioned values are just not applicable. You're sort of expecting 380 million people to get along just fine with minimal fuss....You've absolutely no chance.

Ultimately, what we achieve in life is down to us. Britain and the U.S are free and opportunistic societies, and continually blaming governments for our own problems is par for the course, even if they're the governments we voted for.............You try complaining to the private security guy.

I would suggest that what you think you want, is what you already have.

Though, I would further suggest that what you have is a little less chaotic than what you think you want.

Brain function....The acquisition, storage, manipulation and output of data....Faith and scepticism are two labels that we apply to bits of this process.

There's hard work and there's hard work.

Some hard work gets rewarded more than other hard work does....Such is inequality.

Money and associated greed is a completely different issue to hard work.

What is a prophet other than a manipulative and highly opinionated person?

And what is a disciple other than a gullible hanger on?

And most people want a quite life, but prophets and their disciples have a tendency to want to f**k things up.

Faith is one aspect of internal data management............As is scepticism.

In your opinion, but your opinion is understandably biased.

You're conflating old prejudices and current day regional politics.

Which doesn't alter the fact that the U.S. and Europe needs Turkey on it's side.

Also: Turkey is a nation of over 80 million people, most of whom desire a peaceful existence. Nonetheless human nature is such that old prejudices and fears get handed down from generation to generation, and in this respect Turkey is no different to Greece, and so most Turks will be as biased as most Greeks are.

How limited?

There's a fine line between order and chaos.

How do you address the needs and differing ideologies of 330 million individual people.

Who manages and coordinates things such as infrastructure and resources, national and global aspirations, defence etc.

I'm assuming that was a tongue in cheek remark.

We all know that the bible is a myth based hypothesis, compiled by a succession of blokes over a long period of time.

What's the alternative to government?

Energy is something.....2D is nothing.

And ebuccube may or may not be either a genius or a joker.....You decide.

One either appreciates a liberal society or one doesn't I suppose.

Are there no backwoods, guns or banjo's in the south?

There's always a big club.

Meritocracy is just hierarchy in another guise. How one enforces meritocracy ultimately becomes the same as in any other socio-political system. Liberally or strictly or anywhere in between.

How do you think things will pan out in the future, with a burgeoning population more and more dependant on technology?...Do you think that a meritocratic system would be viable?

I personally think that the days of workable meritocracy have long since passed.

Socialism in peoples heads perhaps. Just because they do not agree with opposition politics doesn't make U.S. society any less hierarchical.

Fungible....Nice word, but not really in context.....Only humanness in general, but the equivalence stops there.

Inheritance (assuming you mean material inheritance) and nepotism are inevitable factors of a liberal society, to remove such privileges would be to enforce true socialism, and I doubt that many U.S . citizens fancy that style of social authoritarianism....Though Mr Trump seems pretty keen on emulating the Russian model....Though the Russian model is sort of authoritarian liberal corruption....Trump maybe?

I think  what some people despise, is liberalism.....The  old fuddy duddies. 

Do you live in the backwoods, have a cupboard full of guns and play the banjo?

You cannot ignore Turkey.

It's a valuable ally to have in between Arabia and Europe, and also a relatively stable society.

After the U.S and it's buddies went in and f*cked up Iraq and Syria, it's Turkey that we relied upon to resolve the bulk of the ensuing humanitarian crisis.

Perhaps Islamophobia, typical of insular American conditioning, is your real issue....In fairness I expect that a lot of Turks have a similar Christianophobic view of Americans.

Thankfully both nations currently  have a reasonably broad minded leadership....Capable of seeing the wood from the trees as it were.

Midnight here in the U.K.....So off to bed

Good night.

Ranch is good.

Natural hierarchy is dictated by the capability of the individual.

People are just not equal.

That is why hypothetical (true) socialism is unachievable, and why all attempts at such, have always failed catastrophically.

"Ethical badness" is something of a contradiction.

And immorality is the opposite of morality,  both of which are individual or collective decisions regarding the behaviour of other individuals or groups. Morality is very much a human thing and we probably on consider morals because we can. Which is perhaps a good thing though, as we would probably end up eating our neighbours kids and f**king everything that moved or vice versa......Though some would argue that this is a good thing.... Such is the variability of morals.

And a splash of dressing.

Survival necessitates the extinguishing of life......It's how we derive nutrition.............I don't fancy eating mud.

Vegetarians  just have a thing about extinguishing, cute fluffy life. 

And vegans....Well vegans are just out to impress, with their synthetic leather sandals......No qualms when it comes to  murdering innocent strawberries though....Hypocrites.