zedvictor4

Do you not make sponge cake in the U.S?

Flour, butter or equivalent fat, sugar eggs all mixed together and then baked.

And pizza dough is so easy to make, and free from all those nasty preservative and additives. The same nasty stuff that you get in processed meat.

And don't forget the side salad.

Pineapple is much better topped with sponge and served hot with vanilla ice cream.

And pizza is far far, better if you make it yourself. 

Though if your pushed for time, thin and crispy with a veg topping...plenty of olives.

Definitely no processed meat.....But a few anchovies are permissible. 

Well a worldview is a worldview and needn't cost a penny....There are probably 7.6 billion possible different worldviews.

Using money to promote and enforce an uncertain ideology is not really promoting a worldview. It's really all about domination and control. The ideology itself becomes largely irrelevant, other than as a tool of control.

Which is what we do to our kids.  We  dominate and try to control their view of the world from our particular world viewpoint. We selfishly do not want them to decide for themselves.

Though as I have already suggested we might eventually be outsmarted by our own smartness....namely technology, and the obvious influence it has upon how as we now look at the world....Everything is out there and available at the swipe of a finger....Who needs to be ranted at by a zealot talking gibberish, these days?

Yep. That's the uncertainty of everything.

Nothing and something are both onefold I assume.

And the process required therein is another.

That's three

Or perhaps two

Or perhaps one.

Is ZERO actually possible?

What is "World Wealth" in real terms....How does one define world wealth.

Does anything  other than a few transient  human organisms, care about such a concept?

Yep.

Money...The one cohesive God we all worship hey.....Now that's a global worldview.

I agree that all worldviews are out there and cannot and should not be supressed. That's a different issue.

My contention is that school should  be about equality, diversity and tolerance rather than separatism. 

Though are religious fantasies really a worldview?.....I suppose God is no different to Santa Claus.....Though, outcomes have a tendency to be less harmful.

Ebuc speak....Are you one and the same....Ergo Ego.

Semitic is a word that describes a regional culture and it's associated people.

Anti-semitism is something of a popular myth.  And simple refers to a specific intolerance....Humans are good at intolerance.

The westernised bible is a corruption of a Semitic myth/culture as is the name Simon Peter....Just pointing out this simple fact in response to your simple proposition.

So:   If  "left Wing Progressives" and their associated worldview, want to set up their own school for their own children then that's ok. (What ever a "Left Wing Progressive" might be. Perhaps they have two heads and six legs.)

Where does this end?....World view encompasses ideology in all forms....How tolerant of radical worldviews are you?  Or is this just a case of all worldviews are equal but some worldviews are more equal than others.

The bottom line is that factional ideologies are divisive and serve no real educational purpose other than to proliferate divisive worldviews.  Which is what has been happening for millennia and clearly doesn't work in terms of a tolerant and cohesive world.

And let's be honest, no matter how well engrained a persons theistic beliefs or worldviews have become. Theism in all forms is still nonetheless, archaic, myth based unprovable hypothesis.....Historical value maybe, but even the value of teaching about the past is debateable.

Personally I cannot see the value of conditioning children with a  2000 year old worldview in the 21st century....China for example is no longer a mysterious and inaccessible place on the other side of the world. China is now only the click of a button away. Conditioning our children to believe that they are different from Chinese children just isn't a benefit to the advancement of a now global society...So teaching our kids that they are different from the kids down the street is just plain backwards thinking and frankly a quite stupid way of carrying on in a Nation that probably considers itself to be a progressive world participant.

Well as I see it "Church" is a bit like riding a bike, it should be something that people choose to do when the basic day to day chores are out of the way. And lets be honest some people are just as passionate (religious) about a chosen sport or leisure activity as others are about theist ideas.

The overwhelming problem for me is that Theism is a collection of diverse and unproven "worldviews" and rigidly conditioning young minds with such uncertain ideas is socially counter-productive. Here in the U.K. the destructive divisions created by the enforced teaching of Catholic and Protestant dogma in faith schools has been all too apparent.

The problem also with an unproven and diverse choice of  "world view" is the  inevitable overspill from pure theist hypotheses into conflicting ideas and dictates of social governance. Just look at how the anti-abortion lobby is dominated by religious groups in the U.S. and yet pure theism makes no such judgements. That is to say, that theism always tends  to try and exceed it's hypothetical parameters and dominate or influence the rules of social governance.

And so my questions to you are, that given the availability  and accessibility of theist ideas anyway, why do you see the need to enforce a system of theism based social separatism upon vulnerable young children?  Are you suggesting that the needs of an uncertain "Church" are greater or more important than the needs of a cohesive and real-time society?

 

Explain.

I don't understand American speak.

I was just pointing out that Simon Peter is an anglicised corruption of a Semitic myth, as is the English version of the Christian bible.

As was the cockerel.

Cock-a-doodle-doo.

Forgot to tag you above. #134

Daren't say too much as I might get sued. And for the record this is only a personal opinion based upon limited circumstantial evidence.

But,  just research systemic pesticides and relate that to the high incidence of pancreas and liver tumors,  especially in dogs.

Very few dogs seem to make it beyond 8-10 years anymore.

I second that.

The cosmic trinity is simply.....TIME...SPACE...MATTER.

Time and space do not require creation, whereas you would assume that matter did.

WTF "ego" has got to do with anything, I do not know.

A Cairn Terrier, Jack Russell cross.....Yep a tortoise is less demanding than a turtle.....Had a cat until recently, but won't replace him, as I have now come to regard  cats as having a negative impact upon small mammal and songbird numbers.

A word of advice gained through experience......Never use "spot on" flea or worm treatments on dogs or cats.

Smart is as smart does.

Though, acceptance without proof is somewhat less reliable than radiometric dating.

Interesting how "Westerners" feel the need to Anglicise Semitism.....it's sort of Anti-Semitic.

It's one of those hobbies where you get enthusiasts and then you get people who splash out a lot of dosh only to quickly loose interest. I would suggest you chat to some enthusiasts and decide if you're really one of them.....The good thing about cats is there's not a whole lot of water management involved....Nonetheless, keeping  animals needs to be a 100% commitment, so just don't go there on a whim.

I have a dog, and I also a tortoise I found about 30 years ago.....Now, if you want an undemanding pet, look no further than a tortoise.

Nice....... So like me you attempt to be a realist?.....Based upon  assumptions of reality, derived from that which we perceive and therefore assume to be real.

It's not easy substantiating realism, without being accused of contradiction.

Perception is assumed reality, and the best stab at reality we have available.....Belief is acceptance without certainty, and so only notionally, assumed sense.

So is everything an assumption?

Ego is I suppose.

As ever.

@ Tradesecret

Well starting at the end and working backwards:

Firstly, when is public funding not public funding? 

Paying for ones own children's education and the choice of ethos therein, is in essence no different to accepting State provision through taxation. The difference is, that you inevitably will end up with a factional society based upon religious difference. In my opinion religion should be separate from State especially in education and especially in early years when children are at their most vulnerable and easily influenced. Let's be honest, religious information by the very nature of it's variation and uncertain origins is not a sound factual basis for the needs of a cohesive society. By far the best basis for a cohesive society is to enforce the notion of equality and that just cannot be achieved if  formative conditioning is based upon a privately funded system of religious separatism.

The academic ability and consequent social status and wealth of an individual has little to do with religion per se.  Inherent physiology, and inherited social status and it's associated influences and effects are far more important. In short there will inevitably be clever and wealthy Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists etc. Just as there will always be the opposite. In other words, natural hierarchy prevails irrespective of religion.

"Religion loves education" and "getting kids for life" yep you said it.... Religion getting kids for life is no different is to educationalists getting kids for life. Though you cannot teach religion out of people as it fundamentally is not there in the first place. Religion is taught into people, and for the reasons given above is not necessarily a benefit to the needs of a cohesive society. 

So how people "turn out" is  determined by inherent ability, inherited social status and formative and ongoing conditioning.....Natural hierarchy and what you were  taught to think by parents, family, community, school, state and media. And I would suggest that the immediacy of media through technology based information systems, is rapidly becoming the overriding conditioner of younger people. If every option is available, then kids will choose for themselves....Though on the other hand the concern is that who controls the media controls the future. Which may or may not be a good thing from a human perspective, but looks like it's inevitably the way things will evolve.

Whether or not highly evolved technology will take on board the concepts of traditional religions as an operating system seems pretty unlikely. One would imagine that pure, emotionless logic is the only way forwards.

Yep, I was certainly agreeing with this sentiment.

Yep I can agree with all that.

Though West is only really

relative to ones present location.

And I would suggest that conditioning plays a huge part in how most people eventually turn out....So how, when and more importantly where one receives ones formative conditioning will undoubtedly  have a significant influence. 

If someone were born in either the American Bible Belt or in Iran, I think that it's fair to suggest that one could quite confidently predict certain outcomes.

Of course, there are always exceptions to rules.

Are you prepared to rely on belief as a modus operandi? 

On  an open forum, when is saying I ain't snitching, not snitching?

I regularly come to the bible as an atheist, and accept it for what it is. Which doesn't mean accepting everything as fact. As with all mythologies, it's pretty easy to determine which bits are perhaps fact and which bits are definitely fictional embellishment.

Both are simple games.

The difficult part is learning how to be better than everyone else.

What is normal, what is ordinary and is there a distinction to be made between a discussion and an argument?

And ad-hominem is usually indicative of a shortage of relevant information, so at that point it's best to walk away with confidence. 

And there are always going to people who want to be told what to do.

You seemed to be suggesting that Pi and physical laws were thus.

You seem to be contradicting yourself with this statement.

Well in all honesty, no one else on DebateArt attempts to understand your output because of it's vagueness and rambling nature, whereas I at least try.

A GOD principle is a simple proposition, that attempts to combine or reconcile the naivety of religious hypotheses with the fundamental complexities of a universe.

Further to this I simply suggest a sequence of universes enabled by the GOD principle. That is to say, an infinite sequence of finite universes, rather than one finite or infinite universe.

Ok.

So I thought I had a basic grasp of what you were attempting to say and It seemed to correspond with my ideas.

Maybe I was wrong.

Though I won't give up.

GOD principle other than word association, has nothing whatsoever to do with popular theism/deism.

In simple terms, GOD principle assumes certain universal properties,  requirements and an ultimate achievement.

Ok. So fair enough, multiverse has an established meaning, though it should have been clear that I subscribe to the notion of a sequence of uni-verses, based upon the finite possibilities of a single universe and the potential of the GOD principle/absolute truth.

So, Pi + all universal properties (physical laws) and the consequent  evolution of matter to a perfect and ultimate state = GOD principle = re-initiation and continuation of the sequence.

Interesting Historical reference.

I think that tyranny was pretty much the political norm back in the day.

Hopefully British society and most of the rest of Europe has evolved since then.

Though a few Ex-Soviet States-People still find it hard to grasp the concept of democracy.

Nonetheless, governance, order and a stable society, is founded upon hierarchy and certain limitations of freedom....It's the price we pay for sleeping soundly in our beds.

A. How lengthy does something need to be, to qualify as a tradition?

B. Some would say that "Right Wing  Conservative Politics" are tyrannical.

C. Freedom is expectancy based upon conditioning (what you're used to)....So  variations in levels of freedom will inevitably manifest objectively.

D. Social hierarchy preserves itself.

E. Mr Ethan is rigidly conditioned, but fun to debate with. So hopefully he will be back soon.

So.... Do we also agree that a universe dictated by said "truth" is "finite"?

As said truth or GOD principle has physical limitations dictated by "physical laws".

Does your cosmic trinity (which I far from fully understand) extend beyond the limitations of a singular finite universe.?....Multiverses if you like, though I prefer to consider the idea of sequential universes.

So one final proposition for you to consider......The truth or GOD principle is that which ensures the continuation of a universal sequence, and that which dictates a preordained evolutionary progression towards a final goal (re-initiation), of which humanity and it's knowledge is a crucial part.

Does it really say this in a bible somewhere?

Lying naked all day at a boys only convention, suggests only one thing to me.

Same as it ever was.

As I continue to state.... A lot of  bible tales are  metaphors for carnal desires....A sort of pre-curser to the porn mag.

So is what I refer to as a GOD principle the same as what you refer to as eternal truth?....All the necessary data required to perpetuate a universe or universes.

There's a certain illogic invested in that scenario.

Is the "being" dreaming that we are dreaming?

What specifically is an Asian?

Or more specifically which Asian sub-group are you singling out for consideration.

As Asia refers to  the largest continental land mass, and Asian refers to the diverse array of people that reside therein.

Well stated oromagi.

Just as no one is created conservative or otherwise.

Is an assumed "absolute truth" not superstition.?

Though was I not asking that very question?....So let me put it another way....Was Pi always there to be found?

Or, in simple terms, does the universe do what it does, irrespective of Pi.

Aren't you just extolling the virtues of humanity rather than extolling the absolute truth's of the universe.

You invoked Pi and gave it a spiritual flavour.

Therefore I was merely curious, regarding the origins of Pi.

Is Pi an innate universal component or just something that humans contrived to assist with their contrived mathematics?

Everything eventually boils down to "chemistry",  and all processes along the way are basically such...... "Ideology",  perceivable difference and the  formulation thereof, is not magic, but processes.

Did Archimedes the Albatross actually calculate and transfer Pi to knowledge?

Or was Archimedes the Albatross just simply, unknowingly instilled with Pi.

Everything apparently.

Though I'm not certain that melanin has DNA, per se.

Ebuc-cubE is mustardmadness.

Though to be fair, they might also be a genius.

Was Pi a known quantity pre-humanity?

2D is a myth.

Without a 3rd dimension existence is impossible.

Can you refute this basic logic?