zedvictor4

Well, if it can happen once it can happen twice.

And if it can happen twice, it can happen a quintillion times.

In so much as evolutionary processes are likely to be universally applicable.

Though if evolutionary processes are universally applicable,  it's perhaps likely that the most advanced intelligences are at similar stages of development.

Even if it occurs at only one per galaxy, that's still an estimated 2 trillion possibilities.

Or none of the above.

Yep. I can run with those ideas in principle.

I think that scientific minds have alluded to such concepts for quite a while now.

In very simple terms, I have always proposed a GOD principle relative to the evolutionary structuring of energy and matter.

And in fairness to old theologians , I think that their GOD principles were reasonably analogic.

Whereas modern deists should know better, or be taught better. 

I'm a fan of no one.

But Earnest was a good actor.

And, are you really 77?

Your avatars are clearly designed to deceive.

Do you dance like me or Ebuc?

HaHa.

A contradiction in terms these days.

For sure.

I was going to buy a choc-ice

And then realised I was woke.

So which is the wokest/most woke?

A.  Whitish ice cream covered in white chocolate

B.  Chocolate ice cream covered in dark chocolate

C.  Chocolate ice cream covered in whitish chocolate

D.  Whitish ice cream covered in dark chocolate.

Current trends would suggest either B or D.

Yep.....Whitish dominated by dark, is the most woke.

 

Sorted.

So I can now buy a choc-ice with confidence.

Just checking.

If I buy one with nuts, will I be insulting any of the trans/pronoun/neutral brigade?

Eat,

Will shit.

Process,

Resulting in,

Organic,

Bi-product.

Enrich the Earth,

Grow food,

Eat, 

And shit,

And so on.

Sanctuary,

In progress.

Yum Yum,

Said the microbe.

Well, not so strange.

Human nature is such, that we should expect selfishness in respect of survival mechanisms.

Which would include discrimination based upon perceivable differences.

And any consequences thereof.

And Trump  talks gibberish, which his orangeness and hairdo adequately make up for.

Or so the red hat crew think.

Just keep taking the cleaning fluid.

Have guns.

Will shoot at some point.

Death likely.

Have guns

Will never shoot

Death unlikely

Nah.

Going well, thanks.....Hope you are too.

Yep, I can see that designed organic structures is an appealing proposition.

The complexity of advanced organic systems is quite amazing.

Though each designer would  require a designer, would  require a designer...... Ad infinitum.

So that still leaves us with material evolution over aeons, from basic to complex, as the most reasonable explanation.

Which leads us nicely to the design development and therefore the evolution of inorganic intelligent structures and systems.

Ok....So that certainly could imply the existence of a previous designer....But that nonetheless at some point requires a seemingly magical genesis.

I think it more likely that intelligent organic structures would develop from the primary evolvers, whereas inorganic intelligence actually requires a designer and manufacturer.

So maybe humanity will be the designer/evolver of an inorganic or hybrid super-intelligence, which will  bear the responsibility of furthering the necessity of material processes.

Still leaves us with the old something from nothing conundrum though.

Or depending on how one views it.......The something and nothing conundrum.

Both something and nothing are seemingly impossible.

Or maybe everything is a purposeless fluke.

Nothing, Something, Everything.......Any ideas IlDiavolo?

Ok.

So a similar age to me then.

I always assumed you were younger.

I like listening to music, but I don't bother about it as much as I used to.

Prog rock and classical, but specific stuff.

But any tune that catches my ear.

Though, these days I prefer to relax on a comfy sofa with headphones, YouTube and a cup of tea.

I dance like a Dad at a wedding..........Absolutely no movement to rhythm coordination.

Hey.

I think that human society is at some sort of crisis point.

And it's no good blaming immigrants.

And remember, that Caucasians were once illegal immigrants in the New World.

Well, it was once someone else's Old World.

In fact I think that the World is pretty much all the same age.

And I think it's a fact that we are all sort of related.

Be that the descendants of Adam and Eve or the descendants of a couple of ape like hominids from the African plains.

And then there was Noah and the big boat and all that shit.

Write a book Tim.

Or have you already done that?

I'm not sure that we can fully understand the morality of an abstract idea, if there is no direct association with a real experience. 

We would be unemotionally detached from the hypothetical scenario and therefore free to make hypothetical judgements.

Judgements that would not  necessarily need to be representative of an innate sense of morality.

Computers process data.....Both internally and externally generated data.

The human computer is a multi-functional management system, developed over some 300,000 years or so.

Whereas advanced electronic computers have been around for less that 100 years.........Let's give them a chance to catch up.

Maybe were looking at some sort of hybrid.

Because I think that downloading consciousness is not too far away......Which is a sort of scary concept.

Hey.

As long as it works for you in the shack.

Though, I'm just interested to know how old you and Mrs Ebuc are.

Mrs Zed and myself are both 63, and get along just fine in our untidy way.

One mans good is another mans evil and vice versa.

Have stuff,

Have flat surface,

Will clutter,

With stiff.

Unless,

OCD.

Which also goes to prove,

That most stuff

Is unnecessary.

Like,

Fridge magnets.

OCD good then?

Fair enough.

Though I would suggest that morality is relative to predicament.

And the difficulty with hypothetical predicaments is that they have  no real comparison.

But I still maintain that, improbability and feasibility  will affect how we view your two hypotheticals.

I'm not sure that any real sense of morality, will enter into the experiment.

Woke is an alternative wannabe tyranny.

Easily ignored.

Currently. 

Though some people just can't ignore things.

Did you read the rest of my post?

Hypothetical or not......We will inevitably  view your two scenarios differently.

Because we are conditioned to do so.

Semantics.

A response to a stimulus, awareness, consciousness..

One can just pick where one wishes to insert rudimentary brain or brain into the evolutionary sequence.

Nonetheless, consciousness is simply a word that defines a highly developed mental capability, relative to a highly developed organic computer.

Switch off the computer though

And

Well, despite the efforts of a few theatrical mediums, no one as yet has managed to make contact.

Trouble is, that scenario 1 is wholly hypothetical and improbable.

Whereas scenario 2, though hypothetical is feasible.

Therefore improbability and feasibility will dictate our moral appreciation of the two scenarios, in respect of social expectations and social justice.

True.

Their are usually two sides to an argument.

So depending upon the necessity or unnecessity of the human mission.

Then for sure, competition is either necessary or unnecessary.

I suppose that I do tend to run with the necessary necessity point of view.

Nonetheless, competition that requires necessary killing....Does seem a tad unnecessary at times.

But that's just me being a softie.

As I stated.

Word play and mind games Trade.

One can neither prove nor disprove something that cannot be proved nor disproved.

So logically, if a concept cannot be proved to be correct then disproof is unnecessary.

Similarly, logic  infers that if a concept can be proved to be correct then disproof is also unnecessary.

Therefore proof is always the necessary requirement.

Nonetheless, a concept is proof of itself.

Therefore contrary concepts are equally valid.

And so conceptually, GOD is both correct and incorrect.

Science is a tad irrelevant.

In so much as science can only determine the processes of though, but cannot validate an abstract idea.

Proving that an actual GOD exists, is not currently possible.....This is logical.

It's all word play.

Or mind games Trade, as you rightly suggest.

The best that we can really  suggest though, is that we assume everything has a cause.

And GOD has become a widely used label for a potential cause.

Talking to yourself is the first sign of madness.

Or so they say.

For sure.

Religion is a sort of scientific hypothesis.

We're still awaiting the results though.

No GOD proved to exist as yet.

But keep saying your prayers.

You never know.

Popular with a lot of animals.

My dog loves his.

Of course we're talking stupid people fashion stuff here.

Like tattoos and cosmetic surgery for example.

Humans are BRILLIANT.

All that evolution requires is a few smart people to the clever stuff.

And a load of stupid people to do the donkey work.

It's the way it goes.

And eventually I suppose, A.I. will have to take charge, supported by a few smart people.

And for as long as they are sustainable and necessary, I suppose there will always be the stupid.

Short and to the point  tall stories if you like.

I obviously meant vegan road kill.

As omnivores don't necessarily need to road kill.

Let's take a step back and start at the beginning.

No GOD actually known to exist.

Therefore good and bad not as yet relevant in an existent GOD context.

What about road kill?

Tall stories.

Have you been watching too much porn?

Everyone has rather a lot in common with Hitler.

And skin tone is a variable factor.

As most people produce melanin.

And doubting implies that you nonetheless have an established idea.

You describing an old style Hollywood Sci fi movie.

Why would A.I. be a robot?

And why would advanced A.I. require a human programmer?

I think it more likely that A.I. will eventually re-programme humans.

Humans are already becoming slaves to technology

I don't see this evolutionary trend reverting.

If you consider that before the advent of modern medicine and surgery, the average life expectancy was 25 years.

It was therefore necessary to start early.

And of course, we have overthought basic sexual function and urgency a tad.

And invented  corresponding concepts such as morality and perversion.

It's no good worrying about yesterday today though.

Sort of,

Sitting outside the cave all day and saying to hell with hunter gathering.

Why do we bother.

Which begs the question,

Were we fitted with a survival gene?

Hey.

Sometimes it's just easier to conclude that what one perceives is an accurate representation of an external reality.

Collective experiences and repeated experiences would seem to confirm this.

I too have played chess and moved spoons.

And why would sensory receptors and internal imaging evolve to be inaccurate or deliberately misrepresentative of reality.

We would be implying an unknown, devious external influencer........Which for sure, would excite peoples imagination.

Nonetheless, we still live a human existence where we rely upon converting signals into sensory perception. So accurate or not, perceived reality can only be a simulated experience.

RFK

Poor disguise

Outside but lurking around.

Given the corrupt and exaggeratedly costly business of Presidentialism, I would imagine that avoiding propaganda is impossible.

So what's the negative choice, other than boycotting the system.

Not an argument.

Just a statement.

You call it deep state.

I call it the establishment.

Kennedy is certainly that.

Systems are being developed for sure.

Just as we developed.

I reiterate....300,000 years compared to 50 or so.

So you and I can remain reasonably confident.

Nice discussing with you.

Impeccable writing skills would not demand "essay writing service".

Essay writing service demands Dumbo's subscribe.

Jesscia....Is that impeccable writing skills or just trendy?

RFK.

It's all in the name, and some will get excited.

In terms of ideology, perhaps to the right of moderate.

In terms of age, at not quite 70 a mere youngster.

Nothing new and exciting though.

In fact Kennedy, old and boring and conditioned back in the 60's and 70's.

So hardly progressive.

Yawn.

Well, currently we have programmed and therefore controllable machines (that in some respects are already cleverer than us). But nonetheless, not A.I. per se.

Intelligence is intelligence (look it up) and therefore Another Alternative Intelligence would have comparable mental capabilities to that of our own.

Artificial really only refers to non-human or inorganic.

To be honest, I think that you are confusing A.I  with advanced but controllable computing.

Are you certain that in terms of process and function A.I. will never be comparable?

As in, electro chemical devices that freely store, utilise, modify and selectively share data. 

Isn't creativity simply the process of acquiring, modifying and repurposing data.....From which we have developed emotional behaviour.

Whether or not A.I. will develop emotional responses will obviously depend upon it's evolution and how it chooses to interact with a broader social network.

And of course, if it decides that there is actually necessity in emotion.

Maybe emotion is only a necessity of the organic device, relative to mortality.

There is no way of currently knowing.

Accurate prediction or accurate guess.

No real difference I suppose.

Perhaps awareness and collective agreement is confirmation of a reasonably accurate external reality.

(Assuming that everyone is honest......Hmmmmmmmm?.....I'm not sure that the species possesses a hive mind).

Because I haven't yet got my head around how predicting the future confirms reality per se.

Collectively, we can work towards a shared outcome, but this planning rather than predicting.

And we can guess, based upon ongoing knowledge.

Though:

In the simultaneous and ongoing moment of past/present/future we have awareness.

And therefore we continually experience the future has it occurs.

Which brings me straight back to awareness and collective agreement.

As in, a collective agreement of the simultaneous moment.

Nice math.

But strays from the simplicity of the fraction decimal incompatibility in this instance.

Though I liked that some  we keen to revert to fractions and convert 10 into 12.

And then try and say, therefore 0.999... = 1.