Instigator / Pro

billbatard

1294

rating

debates

18.0%

won

Topic

#1353

Germany will save Europe

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 1 vote and with 5 points ahead, the winner is...

oromagi

Tags

Politics

Parameters

Publication date: 09.04.2019 06:41AM
Last updated date: 09.16.2019 07:04PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 500
Voting period: One week
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

oromagi

1922

rating

117

debates

97.44%

won

Description

Germany and the German people are Europe's perhaps the worlds last best hope, a strong economy, liberal traditions since that unfortunate misunderstanding early on in the 20th century a bullwark against Russian tyranny and the biggest and strongest bullwark of social democracy ironic isnt it, the germans saving democracy?

Round 1

billbatard

09.08.2019 05:37AM

Pro

Often in history thing cycle , the germans used to be the villains and the jews the victims, in many ways things have reversed Germany has always had a very strong economy no matter what economic system was in place, Germans cant be repressed, much of europe today is going fascist italy hungary poland the uk its rather strange to have the thought well thank god for the germans enter your head

oromagi

09.08.2019 06:45AM

Con

Thx, billbatard.

RESOLUTION: Germany will save Europe

GERMANY (DE) is the Federal Republic established 1990

SAVE (transitive verb) is to help to survive, or rescue from harm

EUROPE is the portion of Eurasia west of the Urals

BoP is entirely PRO's to prove that at some future date, DE will rescue EU.

CON AFF#1: PRO can't predict future events.

CON AFF#2: The past is not always a reliable predictor

CON AFF#3: Modern DE is a young country undergoing rapid demographic change- not predictable

Rebuts in R2.

Round 2

billbatard

09.08.2019 12:26PM

Pro

No one can predict the future, so I can not reasonably expected to predict it, what is evident is the strong nature of the german economy, and the stable condition of its democratic institutions

oromagi

09.08.2019 05:24PM

Con

Rebuts: PROs 3 main pts:

strong economy

8/20, Deutsche Bank reports DE in "technical recession," 0.25%drop in 3rdQ
Trump 25% duty on EU autos (sched for Nov) could crash DE's top market.
DE has one of lowest birth rates in world- 9/1,000. Shrinking pop can't support aging, heavily subsidized pop. Incr. immigration could help but maj. of DE opposes increased immigration.

DE cant be repressed

Hitler, Treaty of Versailles, USSR repressed DE

not fascist like rest of EU

AfD polling @15%, on par with SPD

Round 3

billbatard

09.09.2019 04:49AM

Pro

You do realize hitler is dead right? Germany, the fourth strongest economy in the world, is the strongest economy in Europe with an economy worth $3.4 trillion, followed by the United Kingdom with an economy worth $2.9 trillion. France is third on the list with $2.4 trillion.Feb 8, 2018

The Biggest Economies in Europe - WorldAtlas.com

https://www.worldatlas.com › articles › the-biggest-economies-in-europe

oromagi

09.09.2019 07:04PM

Con

thx, billbatard.

PRO never defined the crisis facing EU. Without info, we can't judge DE's capacity to save EU

PRO touches on fascism but we know DE is not immune to that strain of nationalism and any foreign intervention typically exacerbates nationalist tendencies
PRO touches on DE's economic strength but fails to explain how money saves EU

PRO's job was to show how DE will save EU in some approaching crisis. What crisis and how resolved was never explained or proven

VOTERS, pls vote CON

Dr.Franklin

09.11.2019 12:39AM

oblieration by the tryhard

oromagi

09.08.2019 05:27PM

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@billbatard

CON's R2 sources:

https://time.com/5656223/germany-recession-implications-economy-outlook/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-15/trump-said-to-delay-auto-tariffs-amid-eu-japan-trade-talks
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-lowest-birth-rates-in-the-world.html
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/12/10/many-worldwide-oppose-more-migration-both-into-and-out-of-their-countries/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_German_federal_election

oromagi

09.08.2019 06:48AM

-->

@billbatard

CON's R1 sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/save
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Europe

semperfortis

09.04.2019 06:55PM

-->

@billbatard

Would you be interested in doing the debate in German?

Barney

09.09.2019 07:16PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

The highlight of pro's case was that he can't be expected to predict future events... Unfortunately this debate was about a prediction of future events.

Con on the other hand introduced the topic, and explained such factors as Germany being both opposed to immigration and suffering an aging population, making them unlikely to save others from the unspecified future disaster.

Sources for such things as Pew research supporting cons informational claims, making this debate rise above the level of base assertions. In contrast, pro offered zero evidence.