Instigator / Pro
4
1456
rating
22
debates
27.27%
won
Topic

A multiverse doesn't exist

Status
Finished

All stages have been completed. The voting points distribution and the result are presented below.

Arguments points
0
3
Sources points
2
2
Spelling and grammar points
1
1
Conduct points
1
1

With 1 vote and 3 points ahead, the winner is ...

Novice
Parameters
More details
Publication date
Last update date
Category
Science
Time for argument
Two days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One week
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
10,000
Contender / Con
7
1597
rating
22
debates
65.91%
won
Description
~ 651 / 5,000

Rules:

* Follow website terms of service
* Don't commit these fallacies listed here: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/
* Make sure to read all the links the opponent offers
* If you fail to follow the following rules, then your arguments shall be weakened
* If you can't follow the rules, then you already lost before the debate ended
* I, the creator of the rules am also under these rules.

Other rules that you wouldn't be penalized for

* Try to respond as fast as possible, though it's okay of life slows you down
* Try to make arguments as short as possible
* Try to make arguments readable
* Try to be as clear as possible
* other similar tips

Round 1
Pro
Here are my arguments against the multiverse:

epistemological arguments:

1. There is no evidence for a multiverse

2. We can't even come close to the ability to detect another universe


spatial arguments:

3. If all universes had the same laws of physics, then that would mean that they would all be expanding, and if they would all be expanding, then they would hit each other and form 1 universe

4. If the 3rd point was true, and the multiverse was eternal, then the universe would have been eternal, since all the universes would have become one. But we know the universe began since the big bang was discovered.

5. If all universes were expanding, then what would keep them from colliding? Is there even anything even keeping them from colliding.

6. So if the number of universes is infinite and each universe had different laws of physics, then what would happen if there is a universe with laws of physics that makes it impossible for other universes to exist? Wouldn't the entire system crumble?

7. Wouldn't the multiverse require a set of laws to keep the universes from vanishing or becoming 1 universe.

8. What would happen if 2+ universes collide?

9. If our universe is infinite, then there wouldn't be space for other universe.

10. If a multiverse exists, is our universe growing in size or are we shrinking?

11. How would all the universes be formed? Are they created by an intelligent being or a factory-like mechanism? If universes are made from a factory like mechanism, who made it? what kind of laws keeps it operating?

12. How did the multiverse begin? It can't have always existed because of points 3, 4, 5, and 6.

13. If all universes began with the big bang, then something had to make all the multiverses.

14. If universes came out of other universes, and the number of universes was limited, then the original universe would have to be created.

15. If the amount of universes is infinite, and universes came from other universes, then the multiverse would be ever regressing, and since the universes are coming out each other, then there would need to be space for new universes. And the infinite multiverse would mean that for every new universe, all the universes would be moving since for every universe that moves, then another universe would move. This would cause an infinite ripple for every new universe created, then for every universe born then all the universe would move in a ruckus.

16. If 16 is true, then what would keep universes from colliding with each other and forming a new and bigger universe?

17. If universes come from other universes, what kind of laws would control how this happens?

Ontological arguments:

18. If a multiverse exists, Then what is the meaning of a universe?

19. If a universe is defined as "all of totality/everything" then the multiverse would be part of the universe.

20. If a universe is defined as "all matter/space" then what about the matter and space in other universes? Wouldn't they be included in 1 universe?

21. If a universe is defined as "Everything that can be observed", then that would exclude an immeasurable amount of stuff in our universe that we can't observe.

22. If 18 is true, then how can there be multiple totalities(in other words, more than 1 everything)?

Con
Resolved: A multiverse doesn't exist

FRAMEWORK
  • Multiverse: Many modern physicists think about a multiverse in the context of the “many worlds” theory of quantum mechanics. The theory tries to explain the behaviour of subatomic particles, which can simultaneously exist in different locations at the same time.
  • Multiverse theory suggests that our universe, with all its hundreds of billions of galaxies and almost countless stars, spanning tens of billions of light-years, may not be the only one. Instead, there may be an entirely different universe, distantly separated from ours — and another, and another.
  • Multiverse theory suggests that our universe, which consists of billions and billions of planets, stars and galaxies, and extends out tens of billions of light-years, may not be the only universe that exists.

NOTES
  • I think the resolution the multiverse doesn't exist is an interesting one. The multiverse in itself has many theories, ideas, and interpretations to it. I interpret the resolution as a generalization of all of them, rather than any specific iteration. 
  • The multiverse is only often regarded as an unfalsifiable theory. 

OVV
  • The expanding universe as we perceive it
  • "According to the simplest extrapolation of the currently favored cosmological model, the Lambda-CDM model, this acceleration becomes more dominant into the future. In June 2016, NASA and ESA scientists reported that the universe was found to be expanding 5% to 9% faster than thought earlier, based on studies using the Hubble Space Telescope[1].
  • "The universe is getting bigger every second. The space between galaxies is stretching, like dough rising in the oven. But how fast is the universe expanding? As Hubble and other telescopes seek to answer this question, they have run into an intriguing difference between what scientists predict and what they observe" [2].
      • It is accepted that the universe is expanding. Ceratin astrology studies have shown that it could be expanding at a faster rate than previously believed, as NASA states, it expands vastly every second, but experiments have evaluated models to more precisely predict its expansion rate. 
  • As national geographic states, "Using a model that predicts many of the universe’s properties with spectacular success—known as the Lambda Cold Dark Matter model—cosmologists can mathematically fast-forward the infant universe as seen in the CMB and predict what today’s Hubble constant should be. This method predicts that the universe should be expanding at a rate of about 67.36 kilometers per second per megaparsec (a megaparsec equals 3.26 million light-years) [3].

  • It should be held commonplace that the universe is expanding
  • Going off this premise, there is a point I would like to make on the existence of the multiverse. 

COSMIC INFLATION
  • On Monday (March 17), scientists announced new findings that mark the first-ever direct evidence of primordial gravitational waves — ripples in space-time created just after the universe began. If the results are confirmed, they would provide smoking-gun evidence that space-time expanded at many times the speed of light just after the Big Bang 13.8 billion years ago" [4]. 
      • Many physicists believe these findings give credence to the existence of a multiverse.
      • Following the big bang, the dispense of energy and matter created the inflation of the Universe or as Nasa states the "extremely rapid (exponential) expansion of the universe during its first few moments." 
      • As these theories assert "when the universe grew exponentially in the first tiny fraction of a second after the Big Bang, some parts of space-time expanded more quickly than others" [4]. 
      • Following this idea, subsections or "bubbles" of spacetime likely were created and developed; leading to the possibility of their development into other universes. 
    • As Stanford University theoretical physicist Andrei Linde states "It's possible to invent models of inflation that do not allow [a] multiverse, but it's difficult. Every experiment that brings better credence to inflationary theory brings us much closer to hints that the multiverse is real." [4].
    • I hold the argument that cosmic inflation posits the idea of a multiverse as a likelihood and a reasonable explanation for the phenomena we have observed and theorize. 


CONCLUSION
  • Round 1 is dedicated to the opening case as time and character restrictions are considered.
  • Round 2 will be dedicated to rebuttals. I will address PRO's questions therein. 
SOURCES
  1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_of_the_universe
  2. https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/mystery-of-the-universe-s-expansion-rate-widens-with-new-hubble-data
  3. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/the-universe-is-expanding-faster-than-it-should-be
  4. https://www.space.com/25100-multiverse-cosmic-inflation-gravitational-waves.html


Round 2
Pro


Note that while I don't believe in a multiverse, I think the idea is cool one to explore in fiction.

One of the biggest arguments for a multiverse is the fine tuning of the universe. Fine-tuning refers to the fact that even the smallest changes to the constants of nature would have resulted in a universe incapable of supporting life.  Because life on earth is a complete universal anomaly and no other forms of life like us have been discovered anywhere in the observable universe, the multiverse theorists believe that in some other universe other than ours in an infinite number of universes would have a chance that it would have some life like ours.

The biggest problem with this argument for a multiverse is that its an example of a gambler's fallacy. A link here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_fallacy
I'll define a gambler's fallacy as yourlogicalfallacyis.com puts it "You said that 'runs' occur to statistically independent phenomena such as roulette wheel spins."

The problem with this chance thinking is that some things have no chance of happening, for example: If you put 100 rubber balls(all of which are colored yellow) in a cardboard box and then cut a hole in the box to let your arm in. So then you but your arm in the box and you want to get a red ball, so you try to grab a ball in the box. What is the chance that out the 100 hundred balls that you grab are going to be red? Of course the answer is 0%. 

Another problem with the multiverse theory is that we have to design a new set of fine tuned scientific laws that would explain the ways the multiverse works. But since we can't prove that a multiverse exists then how can we know that our law set is correct? The answer is we can't.

So if we were to choose one of 2 explanations for the existence of the fine tuning - the first one being an intelligent designer and the 2nd one being the multiverse - which would we pick? Well to start with, Occam's razor basically states that "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity" in other words - when there are at least two equally good explanations for a certain phenomena then always choose the explanation that makes the fewest assumptions or the simplest explanation. Basically, we must give up old theories when they become overly complicated and accept newer, simpler theories, as simpler things tend to be cleaner, easier to fix, less of a mess, and easier to understand.

A good example of Occam's razor at work is heliocentrism(the idea that the sun is at the center of the solar system) vs geocentrism(The idea that the earth was at the center of the solar system). So to start heliocentrism and geocentrism were both made to explained the motion of the planets and celestial bodies in our sky. So first we'll start with the geocentrism theory and how it fares. So geocentrism starts with the assumption that all the planets are moving around the earth; However it is discovered that planets did not just move through the sky: Sometimes the planets danced with the sun around strange patterns, sometimes the planets move backwards, and sometimes other things happen. So then this was explained with the theory that planets move in epicycles, which themselves orbited the earth. As more discrepancies in the movements of the planets occurred, the more epicycles were added. Eventually the geocentric model became a mess and the evidence then complied with the heliocentric model.

So how will we choose between multiverse and intelligent design? Well let's first check the multiverse theory:

* There are multiple/infinite universes
* the universes come about through intelligent design/coming from other universes/ a universe making machine/ just appear randomly
* There are(well should be since we don't have proof) laws that govern this multiverse, what ever they are.
* It isn't even one, there are more complicated multiverse theories/models like Eternal inflation model, many worlds model, quilted multiverse, etc.
* But all these models are just speculation.
* As

Now we'll check intelligent design:

* An intelligence created the universe
* This intelligence(whatever it is) would have to be of unimaginable power/omnipotent, timeless(for it made time), immaterial(for it made matter), spaceless(for it created space), supernatural(for it made the nature), above the laws of physics(for it made the laws of physics). Basically this intelligence is beyond everything and is personal(for only minds can make minds).

So which theory is more likely to error, well of course the multiverse. Also even the multiverse needs a beginning for all the reasons in the 22 arguments in round 1.

sources: 


Con
Forfeited
Round 3
Pro
A multiverse can't exist because as I already stated:

* It breaks the definition of a universe
* It's a gambler's fallacy
* It cannot be observed
* It cannot be proven or disproven
* It is too complicated and breaks Occam's razor
* Multiple universes can't exist if they are not fine tuned to exist
* It ultimately needs a beginning 
* An infinite amount of universe with each having the same laws of physics would inevitably expand to touch merge and cause an infinitely regressing timeline
* There  is no evidence for multiple timelines
* The multiple timelines theory would ultimately need to have a beginning
* The inflationary model will cause a chaotic movement in the multiverse.
* etc
Con

For an explanation: Last round was not forfeited by will of my own, but because of a glitch in the site upon posting my argument, similar to the glitch reportedly experienced by former user Incel_Chud in this debate I had with him https://www.debateart.com/debates/3357-women-should-be-the-property-of-men#
I have contacted the Mods about this but they cannot do anything for now. This was my round two argument and let it serve as my conclusion as well. 

  • My opponent does not respond or address a single argument I have made in round one, so I must conclude that he effectively DROPS or CONCEDES the entirety of them.
  • I want to first get back to expanding/extending my argument, and then go on to rebut both round one and two points that stand out. 

COSMIC INFLATION II: 
  • In round one I argued that cosmic inflation provides evidence of the multiverse. PRO does NOT object to this. 
    • As American theoretical astrophysicist, Ethan Siegel states, "If cosmic inflation and quantum field theory are both correct, then the Multiverse arises as an inevitable consequence of the two, combined" [1]. 
      • Let's agree on what Cosmic Inflation means. As New Scientists states "Cosmic inflation is a faster-than-light expansion of the universe that spawned many others" [3].
        • Dr. Ethan Siegel says that "Inflation is now widely regarded as the origin of our Universe, and those observations narrow down which classes of inflationary models remain viable" [4]. As it turns out, Siegel is correct in this assessment. As Wikipedia mentions on inflation (cosmology), "The basic inflationary paradigm is accepted by most physicists, as a number of inflation model predictions have been confirmed by observation; however, a substantial minority of scientists dissent from this position" [5].
          • Let's agree that several inflation model predictions have been proven accurate and most/the majority of physicists accept the theory. 
        • I believe cosmic inflation suggests a possibility we may be living in a multiverse. As cosmic inflation tells us, the Universe grew exponentially in the first tiny fraction of a second after the Big Bang. 
      • As a result of this "some parts of space-time expanded more quickly than others. This could have created "bubbles" of space-time that then developed into other universes. The known universe has its own laws of physics, while other universes could have different laws, according to the multiverse concept" [7]. This argument was raised in the previous round and CON does not object to it. 
    • As a conclusion to this argument, I will quote Dr. Ethan Single. "Those regions of space where inflation end and the hot Big Bang begins are each their own, independent Universe, and together, they make up a Multiverse. We may not be able to measure these other Universes, at least not just yet, but there’s every reason to expect that if inflation and quantum field theory are both correct, then the Multiverse inevitably exists" [4]. 

CONCLUSION
  • It is resolved today that "A multiverse doesn't exist."
  • I argue, that the multiverse is a possibility and a justified one at that, and I hope to see PRO engage with my arguments in the following round. I do not believe my opponent has refuted my case or shown it to be unreasonable. 
  • We can't claim that a multiverse does not exist knowing what we know about cosmic inflation. 
    • SPACE (Alan Guth, theoretical physicist): "It's hard to build models of inflation that don't lead to a multiverse," Alan Guth, an MIT theoretical physicist unaffiliated with the new study, said during a news conference Monday. "It's not impossible, so I think there's still certainly research that needs to be done. But most models of inflation do lead to a multiverse, and evidence for inflation will be pushing us in the direction of taking [the idea of a] multiverse seriously" [7]. 
  • Most if not almost every inflationary model leads to the multiverse. If you reject inflation you reject what appears to be a scientific consensus. If you accept inflation, and every inflationary model leads to the multiverse, how on earth can we say it does not exist with any certainty? The resolution fails. 

REBUTTALS
  • Now as I have promised to dedicate around two to rebuttals of arguments. PRO created a gish gallop of questions presented in round one, and as the characters are limited, I will seek to respond to the most relevant ones.

We can't even come close to the ability to detect another universe
  • I would agree that there are aspects of the multiverse that remain indefinitely puzzling, however many testable models of the multiverse exist, and large parts of the theory. According to BeThniking: "some current multiverse models do make testable predictions. Stated another way, they have consequences in our universe that future measurements could validate or falsify. For example, some models predict that another universe might have collided with ours during its earliest phases. Such a collision would produce measurable signatures in the cosmic microwave background (CMB). Similarly, a multiverse would naturally cause asymmetries in the CMB that some scientists claim to have found"
If all universes had the same laws of physics, then that would mean that they would all be expanding, and if they would all be expanding, then they would hit each other and form 1 universe
  • According to SPACE, and as I previously argued: "The known universe has its laws of physics, while other universes could have different laws, according to the multiverse concept." I think the question fails because the premise that all universes have the same laws of physics is false. Ill address Universe collisions in your next question
If all universes were expanding, then what would keep them from colliding? Is there even anything even keeping them from colliding.
  • There very well could be evidence of Universe collisions with our universe, and of other universes colliding with each other. 
  • If another Universe had collided with our own "the crash would have left an imprint on the cosmic microwave background (CMB), the faint afterglow from the Big Bang" [8]. 
If a multiverse exists, is our universe growing in size or are we shrinking?
  • The Universe is growing in size. As I have shown, and as you do not object to. We should agree that the universe is expanding at rates we have been able to predict, and there has been no recorded evidence of our world proactively decreasing in size. 
How would all the universes be formed? Are they created by an intelligent being or a factory-like mechanism? If universes are made from a factory-like mechanism, who made it? what kind of laws keeps it operating?
  • Science has considerable enough evidence to say the Big Bang was the foundation of the universe. I believe is worth pondering whether a God or Deity exists that set this mechanism into place, but those theories are unfalsifiable and not relevant to our current debate. 
If all universes began with the big bang, then something had to make all the multiverses.
  • The question seems to have been answered by its first premise. All Universes began with the big bang. therefore that was their origin. If you mean to argue that the big bang has an origin or cause, it's an argument I am willing to have, but for the sake of the existence of a multiverse, it is irrelevant. 
If universes came out of other universes, and the number of universes was limited, then the original universe would have to be created.
  • Universes can branch-off and emerge from other larger expanding Universes. inflation: the expansion of the universe is the mechanism for this, not one ultimate original universe that caused this chain. Many universes expand simultaneously. 
If universes come from other universes, what kind of laws would control how this happens?
  • There are no rigid laws that control how inflation manifests because we are still studying the matter of inflation in and of itself. 
  • Cosmological models and inflationary models can predict how different universes can exist. 
  • As I said previously, most astrophysicists accept cosmic inflation because "a number of inflation model predictions have been confirmed by observation" [5], and it is very hard to make an inflation model that does not lead to the multiverse [7]. 

In round 3 we will go over CON's more ontological-based ideas/questions, and conclude on cosmic inflation. 

SOURCES
  1. https://evolutionnews.org/2022/03/astrophysicists-battle-over-whether-the-multiverse-must-exist/
  2. https://www.bethinking.org/is-there-a-creator/multiverse-musings-is-it-testable
  3. https://www.newscientist.com/definition/cosmic-inflation/
  4. https://bigthink.com/13-8/is-the-multiverse-real/
  5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_(cosmology)
  6. https://www.livescience.com/multiverse
  7. https://www.space.com/25100-multiverse-cosmic-inflation-gravitational-waves.html
  8. https://www.quantamagazine.org/multiverse-collisions-may-dot-the-sky-