Instigator / Pro
0
1509
rating
12
debates
25.0%
won
Topic
#4418
Rape is not a good excuse for abortion.
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Winner
0
6
After 6 votes and with 6 points ahead, the winner is...
Bella3sp
Tags
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 2
- Time for argument
- One week
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
6
1524
rating
53
debates
75.47%
won
Description
Con will argue that Rape is a good enough reason or excuse for abortion to be legal. Note: this is not a debate on whether abortion should be legal or not, this is a debate on whether the argument that brings up rape is good enough to uphold the argument that abortion should be legal.
Round 1
Pro
#1
At the very opposite end of the spectrum, only 1% of all women had an abortion because it was a result of rape, and 0.5% of women had an abortion because it was the result of an incestuous relationship.
I believe Rape is not a good enough excuse for pro-choice, as it makes up a very small percentage of abortions, and it does not make the other percentages good. I believe, and this may be an indirect quote from Ben Shapiro himself, that rapists should be castrated and/or killed, but babies do not need to be killed.
I believe that just because the baby is the baby of a rapist, does not mean we get to excuse this baby and wipe it off as nothing. It is a human organism and deserves life.
This is my case.
Con
#2
Thanks Hs400, I finally get to debate something I have a strong opinion on. There's so much to say with only two rounds and ten thousand characters..
Let's have fun with this.
My position is simple: Rape is a good excuse (reason) for abortion.
Opening:
Rape is something that is forced, without consent into unwanted sexual actions. In this debate we are talking about rape leading into unwanted pregnancy, as of which because it is forced, is something that is controversially a good reason to have an abortion. As my position supports, I will be using four different contentions to reinforce my position, as said, rape is a good excuse (reason) for abortion.
Contentions
I. Conditions & Funds
Career/Life Long Goal Interference
Have you ever heard the saying, "you ruined my life when you were born" or something along those lines by your parents? This is the perfect example of disrupting someones life completely. Imagine taking away a goal of someones they have been working on for quite some time because you want to force them into delivering and taking care of them for the years ahead.
Money or Unemployed
Sometimes the parent(s) just don't have enough funds. Not enough money for themselves let alone enough money to financially support a child.
Consider that the basic needs of a baby include but are not limited to:
- Clothing
- Nutrient & Feeding Supplies
- Diapers
- Bedding
All of this was to say, what if the family is struggling to even feed themselves, take care of themselves? Now you want them to take care of another that is even more additional costs.
Single Parent
There are many different challenges that single parents go through that differ with married parents, or just parents in a relationship. Based on a somewhat similar experience there is an emotional and physical challenge. Whether that be sharing an experience with an actual partner, lack of financial support, not being able to provide, etc.
Single parents have difficulties in general of managing their responsibilities being the only parent in the household.
Home conditions
Conditions in one's home differ from each house. As of which can be:
- Abusive environment
- Dangerous/Harmful environment such as a smokey one.
Some just don't want a child to be brought into a harmful starting point in their lives.
II. Young Age or Student
Maturity
Are we forgetting the young children, who would be forced to proceed with a baby? They aren't even mature themselves but you want them to bear a child? Children from many different ages, usually between the ages of eight and seventeen can get pregnant. So, going based on the low number of eight years old, are they really mature enough to handle taking care of a baby? If children have trouble being mature enough to handle their chores correctly, then how does a child take care of a baby? They are a child themselves.
Let me also confirm the age of maturity:
"The development and maturation of the prefrontal cortex occurs primarily during adolescence and is fully accomplished at the age of 25 years."
Education
Now you are reckoning with a child's education, huh? So, now the child not only has been forced to take care of a child but their education is taken away. First off, they have to take many absences at a time for taking care of such a child.
By taken away I mean taking away for an extended time. Usually you will have to take care of the child until they are able to go off to school themselves or if you are able to find a babysitter. However, a babysitter these days is actually both expensive and worrying. I could understand if you would not want to leave your child with some stranger(s). Usually, in the United States you are eligible to go to Kindergarten at the age of five.
Do you think that's it? Nope. If in the case they were eleven years old they would most likely be in Middle School. If they were, there would be a schedule difference.
Meaning there's one or two things that could happen:
- They get out of school early to pick up their child
- Don't go to school in general to pick up their child
I assume it would be the first option, but either way parts of their education go missing.
III. Slave
This seems like woman are being treated as slaves, hm?
What is a slave? Define slave:
1: a person held in forced servitude2: a person who is completely subservient to a dominating influence
Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slave (2)
So, if someone is forced to give birth, is this someone who is a person who is completely subservient to a dominating influence?
Can pro deny this? They cannot. Maybe they can, but we'll see..
Being forced to carry and deliver a child under dominating (intense) influence that they have no choice or say in they are completely submissive to it. Otherwise, use the other definition which supports the same thing.
The question is, why did I mention something that doesn't really revolve around my resolution?
According to pro: "this is a debate on whether the argument that brings up rape is good enough to uphold the argument that abortion should be legal."
That is correct, that is what this debate is about. This contention was to disprove any and all of the pros arguments without it being something that I had to use for my position. If it is slavery, there is no good reason for there not to be a good reason for abortion that revolves around rape.
Anything you say that is on the opposing side would be supporting slavery!!
IV. Forced pregnancy effects
Mental Health
Honestly, this sums it all up very quickly:
“a higher state of stress and are more likely to have pregnancy-related complications. Stress can impact virtually every aspect of mental and physical health, and can negatively affect fetal development and the health of the child throughout their life.”
Then you have people who are pregnant unwillingly and, if unable to get an abortion, have a continual stressful trigger that they are being forced to do something potentially dangerous.
A forced pregnancy is incredibly distressing. “We experience events as traumatic when we are not able to escape them or are not able to exercise choice about what happens to our bodies and when and why,” says Netherton. She explains that people who cannot terminate their pregnancy may have a higher chance of postpartum mental health issues."
Rebuttals:
At the very opposite end of the spectrum, only 1% of all women had an abortion because it was a result of rape, and 0.5% of women had an abortion because it was the result of an incestuous relationship.I believe Rape is not a good enough excuse for pro-choice, as it makes up a very small percentage of abortions, and it does not make the other percentages good.
Alright, this is irreverent. It doesn't matter how much the percentage of abortions are because of rape. It has nothing to do with whether it's a good reason or not.
It's still something that occurs which is low or high.
I believe that just because the baby is the baby of a rapist, does not mean we get to excuse this baby and wipe it off as nothing. It is a human organism and deserves life.
Now you're just restating the resolution by saying "Babies shouldn't die because of rape" which is also mostly, "Rape is not a good reason for abortions".
Overall, what has pro proved here?
- Nothing
Sources:
If you don't want this to be a reason at all for abortion, teach your sons.
Round 2
Con
#4
Let’s take a look at your profile description:
“I am always right. Because I believe I am always right and since I am always right then that opinion is correct and unflawed. There is no flaw to my opinion. Prove to me I am wrong about me being right about me being always right. GG”
A look at this debates short description:
“I believe this is such a flaccid argument that can be easily rebutted by using pure simple logic.”
Yeah, so, about that… Alright well, extend.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
Con presented a stronger argument, highlighting the economic challenges of raising a child born from rape and asserting that forcing women to bear such children constitutes forced servitude. Pro failed to counter these points and, in fact, reinforced much of the debate.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
Pro basically conceded the debate by (a) using less than 10% of the character limit and (b) not responding to anything Con said. Pro's argument in R1 is essentially summarized as "It is a human organism and deserves life." Con argues that several other impacts outweigh this. Pro never shows up to contest Con's weighing of the arguments, and forfeiting 50% of the debate might be grounds for an auto-loss anyway.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
Pro missed 50% of the debate.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
While I do think that Pro had much superior arguments, sadly Pro missed 50% of debate. Thats a loss.
Actually maybe you could call it egoism
It would help cover up the crime. If we are taking the POV of the rapist and applying utilitarianism, Ii think it makes sense
My Friend you state: "My argument as con (sic) would have been that it's easier to hide evidence of rape if you allowed women to be coerced into abortions by rapists."
That's a pretty loaded statement. What does allowing coercion for abortion mean? Does coercion to abortion change the legal defence of a rapist? Perhaps.... if the coercion is retroactively applied and induced the victim to not tell? Does the abortion itself render the rape conduct defendable?
I am not sure I understand your position. Start a debate and hash it out?
Think about it, as a rapist if you allow your pregnant daughter to give birth, that child has your DNA and can get you locked up, therefore it is inherently better for abortion to be legal.
Not if Con is a rapist. If con is a rapist, it is an argument for con.
That would be an argument for Pro, not Con. As for votes, I'm not sure it would be enough to win. It really depends how common that is and what arguments the other side comes up with.
My argument as con would have been that it's easier to hide evidence of rape if you allowed women to be coerced into abortions by rapists.
Could I have secured you guy's votes with that you think?
Forgot to tag you, sorry.
"Lives that had only begun. The other lives have been there for quite awhile. There life is not less important than a life that has barely (if) begun. If anything it would be the life that has been around longer."
No. The child's life is almost as important as that of his parents. The importance of life does not significantly increase as it becomes longer. The parents dont lose life during pregnancy in great great majority of cases, so your argument is pure stupidity. Pregnancy creates life and increases it almost always. Therefore, being raped does not give you the right to kill your child and decrease life by doing so. The only value that your life has is if it gives birth to more life. So when you abort, your life loses value. We could even say that women who abort their children should get death penalty, irrelevant of if raped or not, to discourage others.
"I dont take that into consideration because its false. Abortion takes lives away."
Incorrect. It does take away lives.
"Still less important than saving lives."
Lives that had only begun. The other lives have been there for quite awhile. There life is not less important than a life that has barely (if) begun. If anything it would be the life that has been around longer.
"No. That is still less important than saving lives."
Already responded.
"Encouraging suicides is less important than saving lives."
Encouraging? I wasn't encouraging, my point was if they did and the baby was inside, it doesn't matter. It's there body therefore whatever happens inside their body is dependent on them.
"Not an argument, since abortion damages lives."
More so removes them, it removes them from the already active life that has been here for awhile. What life have they really had? They are a clump of things that have got no sort of intelligence.
"He didnt need to justify life. The argument of life beats all other arguments."
Great. Then, the already existing life that has been here for awhile trumps over because the new only (if) begined life is reckoning with their life.
We can go on and on about this but one thing is for sure, a woman is a life as well. And if you consider life an important factor than you have to consider hers as well.
"Actually, you never take into consideration the 'life' depending on how you word it, is being taken away from the parent(s)."
I dont take that into consideration because its false. Abortion takes lives away.
"as the woman being treated as a slave"
Still less important than saving lives.
"If the fetus is apart or inside the woman's body, she is able to treat her body however she pleases."
No. That is still less important than saving lives.
"if she was to commit suicide, it was her body"
Encouraging suicides is less important than saving lives.
"Are we saving lives or are we damaging the ones that already exist?"
Not an argument, since abortion damages lives.
"But he didn't justify life, all was done was practically restating."
He didnt need to justify life. The argument of life beats all other arguments.
Hm? Actually, you never take into consideration the 'life' depending on how you word it, is being taken away from the parent(s).
Also, as of which would be accounted to as the woman being treated as a slave which is also a violation of human rights. If the fetus is apart or inside the woman's body, she is able to treat her body however she pleases. It is her body, simply if she was to commit suicide, it was her body, her choice. Are we saving lives or are we damaging the ones that already exist?
All that said, his argument was talking about percentage, that didn't matter and lives. But he didn't justify life, all was done was practically restating.
His argument was about saving lives.
Your argument was some nonsense about women's difficulties.
General question on your vote, how was it superior? In which ways was it good?
Yeah.
I think you meant "vvvv" instead of "^^^^", because on this site, more recent comments are placed on the top.
^^^^
Disallowing abortion for rape victims benefits no one except the rapist.
Some of those actually require extra funding, usually you can’t breastfeed forever. When they continue to grow up even older and older, such as, let’s just throw out 5 years old. They then need more proper nutrition. How are they able to get such when they are struggling to feed themselves?
Further, hand me downs can become to small.
I believe I could still, argue this topic without the need for those things as well.
"Clothing"
Hand me downs
"Nutrient & Feeding Supplies"
WIC and breast feed
"Diapers"
Go cloth
"Bedding"
Co sleep