Battlebots Mafia DP3

Author: AustinL0926
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#211
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@WyIted
I don’t wanna make this sound like an ultimatum or a threat, but rather like a deal that you can benefit from. You reveal who you targeted (I think I know who it is anyway) and we can lynch them instead of you tonight. You get an extra day to live which benefits your team if you have a decent mafia role. Another night phase with you and your partner being alive is pretty sweet deal right? I mean you will likely get lynched tomorrow because there really isn’t any benefit for towns wincin to keep you alive but your partner still has a chance to carry your team so a win isn’t out of the realm. I don’t see how there is more value in guarding the other mafia team then there is in helping town here.
This is a good deal. I am not caught up, is anyone on board for it besides you?

BK was before RM manipulated him away from it. I can probably get town on board with it if you can comply. There is strong reason for town to comply because getting rid of the second mafia team entirely benefits town more than trying to eliminate you immediately. Basically it takes an entire night kill out of the picture. Of course what you say has to be believable and if the person you chose isn't like one of two people I have in mind I will probably think you are lying.

Can you confirm that you targeted a player last night who did not die, and that you assume you used this persons shield and that is what you were talking about in the beginning of this phase? Because if I was wrong about that than this whole conversation is pointless. 
#212
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@Best.Korea
The current plan is we lynch you and I use my vig shot on GP, so if he is scum, then we took out 2 scums, and if he is what he says he is, then I confirm him as town and then the rest of scums become obvious.

Maybe you can give us some reason to lynch someone else tho, but I dont think you can.

We can do the same plan in reverse as well. Or on the person wylted points out is scum. Of course it will have to have been believable and there is only a couple people do to POE that it could even be. 

We have the numbers to game solve this, and basically all we would have to do is figure out wyIted's partner but POE should allow us to do that very soon. Finding whiteflame's partner is more immediately useful since we take an entire night kill off the board by doing so. 

RM hasn't been wrong on everything this game, and for the most part his logic is sound and he's come to some same conclusions as me, but his ego is massive and he has been wrong on several counts. I think his plan here is wrong and I would be hesitant to sheep him until we hear wylted out.
#213
WyIted
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@RationalMadman
You know we can just lie to you to make you out the other scum right?

Idgaf what you out I'm voting you.
This is why you aren't as smart as you think you are. Instead of asking "How can we get the best odds of winning" You instead say "derp, let's all do the most obvious thing because I can only think 1 level deep"
#214
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@WyIted
Keep thinking that. I destroy you by 1 level thinking every mafia game were enemies somehow.
#215
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@Lunatic
RM hasn't been wrong on everything this game,
Everything. Yes.
#216
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Everything includes townreading Lunatic DP1 and saying his role.is towniest seeming dp2.

Which I agree I can be wrong on.

Everything includes getting guilty on whiteflame, pure luck, talking a hard GTer out of selfing via diplomacy and being the sole Towny other than the GTer voting scum DP1.

Wrong is challenging Wylted as real Cop instantly for claiming he had daycop capacity.

Wrong wrong wrong.
#217
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@WyIted
What’s your proposal? 
#218
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@Lunatic
Can you confirm that you targeted a player last night who did not die, and that you assume you used this persons shield and that is what you were talking about in the beginning of this phase? Because if I was wrong about that than this whole conversation is pointless. 
That's pretty much it yes. I assume the other team shot town NP1 so their shield is down.

I guess I should explain why it benefits my team to get rid of the other scum team. If it meant odd night kills were lost than it would not benefit my team, but by removing them from the game it puts NKs in our hand which reduces the chance my scum partner is hit. I think it improves our chances of winning the game.
#219
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@RationalMadman
Luna Luna Antitown Tuna
Lunatic has claimed doc. He has said he's unlimited and for absolutely no reason he could justify waived NP1.

AGAIN this wasn't for NO reason. Just because you fail to understand my explanation doesn't mean there wasn't one. This is so frustrating that you constantly gaslight me. You did this multiple times in DP1 to before I even started calling you out for it. 
So no matter what we get a benefit for our factional bulletproof. Whether we reap that benefit day phase 1, or reap it day phase 5, the benefit is the same mathematically, in that town basically gets a free night phase with no kills. I was told that if I protect someone who was also the target of the night kill, my protection would take over instead of the factional bulletproof. The factional bulletproof can also be used as an investigation of sorts though can help us figure scum. I wanted the factional bulletproof to be used night phase one so I didn't have to guess about whether or not we still had it in the future. Remember at this time I had no way of knowing if other protective roles existed, and since I am an every night doc which is pretty powerful, I didn't really expect another one to exist (IE why one of the jailkeepers was indeed fake we now know). For example if we had a watcher watch whiteflame and saw that he was visited by me and one other person, I could claim doctor and say I protected the individual and if there was no night kill we can deduce that the other player targeting him was likely scum since I protected his kill. Or if that player had a good role and excuse for visiting the player, we could determine that the person I visited was scum because of their factional night kill. If town still has ours though we simply wouldn't know because town also would have a factional bulletproof. I would rather KNOW we don't have that bulletproof so we can use my role to basically investigate and catch people. Chances are that I would protect the townie that dies np1 is also incredibly low, so it was smartest to let the factional bulletproof do it's job without me adding any WIFOM to the mix. The watcher example is just one of many things that can be used to confirm someone, we know we have a tracker and it can be used the same way. Either way, its more likely than not our shield was used dp1 and reaping that benefit and KNOWING we got that benefit night phase one is more usefull than wondering if we still have it late game because I might have got lucky and protected the right person who was targetted night phase one. It was literally impossible for me to "waste" an action when it's guaranteed a townie won't die anyway.

That's the last time I am explaining this to you. If you keep repeating nonsense about me "wasting" my action, Im just gonna assume you are trolling and keep calling you a retard and hope the rest of town ignores you. You repeating this nonsense is incredibly anti-town. 
#220
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@Barney
What’s your proposal? 
I know the other scum team 100% it leaves you guys one less scum to have to find and it preserves me for an extra day and gains my team more NKs. Town has probably an 80% chance of winning at this point and my team 10%, with a deal made I predict town's chances go to 85% and ours to 15%.

It is also extremely obvious the other scum knows I am talking about them and hasn't spoken up to claim I am mistaken or anything else which is a good sign that nothing funky happened and I am correct.
#221
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Name                                   Claim                               Role                      NP1                                  NP2.                                 NP3
Greyparrot                          Black Dragon               Bleeder                N/A                                         N/A
RationalMadman              Shatter                          Cop                        whitefame (guilty)           Jib(blocked)
Joebob                                 HUGE                              Motivator              N/A                                        Best.Korea
Best.Korea                          Duck                               1x Bulletproof/Vigilante N/A                        Wylted(failed)
Ijb1                                         Tantrum                       Jailkeeper               
Lunatic                                  Witchdoctor              Doctor                       Lunatic                                RM
Barney                                 Chomp                          Tracker                     Rand(Lunatic(Lunatic))   BK(visited Wylted)

Scum:
Wylted(scum)                       Fusion                     JOAT?                              ??                                       ?? And visited by letter person.

Graveyard:
7000series(town)                 Hypershock             Even-Night Commuter     lynched DP1 
Whiteflame(scum)               Whiplash                  Roleblocker(non-killing nights)  ??          lynched DP2


Yup, I confirmed that my tracking of Lunatic was random.
#222
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@AustinL0926
@WyIted
This is why you aren't as smart as you think you are. Instead of asking "How can we get the best odds of winning" You instead say "derp, let's all do the most obvious thing because I can only think 1 level deep"

Don’t do anything else that gives you an unfair advantage, even if it’s not explicitly stated in the rules. It won’t make you clever, but it will get you modkilled. 
I have very deep thinking, my G.

#223
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@WyIted
That's pretty much it yes. I assume the other team shot town NP1 so their shield is down.

I guess I should explain why it benefits my team to get rid of the other scum team. If it meant odd night kills were lost than it would not benefit my team, but by removing them from the game it puts NKs in our hand which reduces the chance my scum partner is hit. I think it improves our chances of winning the game.

I think you should reveal who that person is. If the person you reveal is believable I can probably lead town towards lynching that person, RM will be the only obstacle. And for some reason BK worships everything he says and he buys into the RM ego trip, so I'll have to do some convincing. There are certain players if you mention that I simply probably wouldn't even believe you though, so I think to start this out you should go ahead and mention who it is you targeted. You could lie to us, but if I sense that then I'll just go with the original plan to let town lynch you, but based on your last response here I think you also see reason here and see the benefit to taking out the other scum team.

Please out who the player is. 
#224
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@WyIted
As weird as it sounds, I’m good with leaving  you around to be the last scum well, an extra day at least)

I like having a flair of style and narrative to these games.

…

Are you team Odd or team Even?
#225
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@Barney
If you do that I vote you and don't rethink it. That's all I am telling you.
#226
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@Barney
He sk.baitijgnwhole Town to get modkilled shitnthe fuck up right now.

I am.right, listen to me.
#227
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@RationalMadman
So vote Wylted?
#228
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@Lunatic
there is some risk to me outing it so give me a few hours to think it over. I do believe that you have the capability of convincing the sensible members of town. I do also believe you are being honest here about what you would do.


#229
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@Best.Korea
@JoeBob
Listen to me, any post anyone makes from this point on open to negotiating an unfair Town edge that is game breaking, with Scum, is violating an explicit gamemrule Austin put there.

Whether Wylted is a genius or is accidentally doing it, you need to STOP what you're doing immediately. I knew this previous DP but shut my mouth about it hoping he'd out the scum eventually.

Wylted isn't violating the rule because he's fucked anyway.
#230
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@RationalMadman
So once again, vote Wylted like I have been saying since he admitted?
#231
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@Barney
As weird as it sounds, I’m good with leaving  you around to be the last scum well, an extra day at least)
I want my partner to be the last scum. I am even team. Like I said it benefits us to eliminate the other faction it also benefits town to cooperate, but there is no way around lynching me tommorrow unless you guys catch my scum mate.

I can say I am not going to contribute much and I am talking in unnatural ways to obscure relational tells, so keeping me in as known scum is different than keeping me in when my faction is unknown.

People should aslo ignore RM. There is no risk of mod kills. I am not on the same team as the odd night scum team so it doesn't violate any rules for me to help eliminate them, nor is it an issue as far as playing to my wincon is concerned because I think the move marginally improves our chances.

#232
Lunatic
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RM this is a team v team v team game, ultimately we have to go against wylted, so its not game breaking. And he could also still lie to us. I am hoping I will be able to catch him lying, because I think I will only believe him if his target is one of like two people. Maybe a third would be believable. Either way its not gamebreaking because there is a potential for us to mislynch our own here, and even if we dont, it's still a team v team game. Hes not insiding anyone on his own team. The other team could have been the one that offered the alliance too, but wylted's been pretty straightforward since the beginning about wanting to ally with us. Obviously our win cons only allow us to do that to an extent, but letting him live an extra day is a pretty good trade off for the information he gives us. Worst comes worse if I sense he is lying, it just confirms another townie in my eyes. 
#233
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People should aslo ignore RM. There is no risk of mod kills. I am not on the same team as the odd night scum team so it doesn't violate any rules for me to help eliminate them, nor is it an issue as far as playing to my wincon is concerned because I think the move marginally improves our chances.

This ^
#234
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@JoeBob
After ijb is here to fully clarify 3 things and agree to who he RBs np3.
#235
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@RationalMadman
If you do that I vote you and don't rethink it. That's all I am telling you.
Do you ever stop to re-read what you write?

You want to lynch me for stopping to talk to someone? Someone who we know has useful information. Yes, he could tell a bunch of lies, but the risk that represents is the nature of the game and what makes it fun.
#236
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@WyIted
Thanks for the details.
#237
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Updated with Wylted’s team information.  While it can’t be wholly trusted, it’s crystal clear he’s not on the same team as whiteflame.

Name                                   Claim                               Role                      NP1                                  NP2.                                 NP3
Greyparrot                          Black Dragon               Bleeder                N/A                                         N/A
RationalMadman              Shatter                          Cop                        whitefame (guilty)           Jib(blocked)
Joebob                                 HUGE                              Motivator              N/A                                        Best.Korea
Best.Korea                          Duck                               1x Bulletproof/Vigilante N/A                        Wylted(failed)
Ijb1                                         Tantrum                       Jailkeeper               
Lunatic                                  Witchdoctor              Doctor                       Lunatic                                RM
Barney                                 Chomp                          Tracker                     Rand(Lunatic(Lunatic))   BK(visited Wylted)

Scum:
Wylted(EVEN)                       Fusion                     JOAT?                              ??                                       ?? And visited by letter person.

Graveyard:
7000series.                            Hypershock             Even-Night Commuter     lynched DP1 
Whiteflame(ODD)               Whiplash                  Roleblocker(non-killing nights)  ??          lynched DP2

#238
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@Barney
You want to lynch me for stopping to talk to someone? Someone who we know has useful information. Yes, he could tell a bunch of lies, but the risk that represents is the nature of the game and what makes it fun.
Don't gaslight me, you said this:

I’m good with leaving  you around to be the last scum well, an extra day at least)

I like having a flair of style and narrative to these games.
If you want to talk and put yourself at risk of modkill, do that but do not tell that you'll promise to keep him around for his style. Fuck his style, fuck my style, play to win not to remove people you don't want to have around.
#239
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@Barney
the risk that represents is the nature of the game and what makes it fun.
To me, as a guy who is skilled at both Poker and Mafia, I can tell you I know when gambling and risk are necessary. I am also sure when you're being guided like a gullible lamb to the slaughter.

What Wylted is offering you is like 'come here and play roulette or blackjack'. Even if you can count cards and the deck is indeed not properly shuffled making it a genuine edge, you're gonna get 'modkilled' by the casino for what you do and he'll sit there laughing at you. Even if that doesn't happen, you're being guided by a guy to risk getting rid of actual Town when doing this does not in any shape at all benefit him which I kept secret as I hoped he hadn't clocked it yet but need to tel lit now.

Wylted gains absolutley nothing but helping us lynch the other scum partner this DP, he'd only gain it in future ones. He genuinely cannot possibly gain anything from it, it benefits him immensely to have the other scum player around if with his own.

If he is whiteflame's partner, his only hope is enough of us getting modkilled and vig killing other scum while he kills other, in other words he has no real win condition to hope for if we're realistic about all town except vig being modkilled.
#240
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didn't mean his own partner meant other partner of whiteflame.