Invincible Mafia Day Phase 1

Author: Lunatic

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whiteflame
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Suffice it to say that, if we are picking someone to lynch this DP, I think we have to pick among those who cannot be confirmed by their night actions, which includes everyone who has not claimed (myself included). I say that while BK remains highest among my scumreads. I also say it knowing that most of those who fall into that category are people I’m behaviorally reading as town, so that does narrow the options for a lynch substantially.

Here’s the list of people I’m unwilling to lynch in this DP in order of most to least:

JoeBob: Innocent Child. Nuff said.

GP: has a claimed role that will rapidly confirm itself during the NP. If he doesn’t, that means he’s the obvious lynch next DP or he’s dead during the NP.

Savant: some may disagree about my putting him this far up, but despite the lack of a hard claim, he has said he’s clearly confirmable, so whatever his role is, it will either become clear next DP or he’ll be on the chopping block.

Pie: claimed the main character of the series and a role that can be watched. It’s not a slam dunk, but it is a testable role on some level. I’ve got a question into Luna about it, so this might change.

BK: claimed doctor and major character, though his behavior has been all over the place. The role is nonetheless somewhat confirmable.

That leaves 4 choices, including me. I’ll leave myself out for obvious reasons and list from least to most sus.

Vader: he’s been a black box when it comes to his claims, but his behavior comes off as very townie throughout. He’s my “if necessary” choice, but I’d prefer both of the options below to him.

Austin: the Bleeder claim makes basic sense, but could easily be a relatively safe fake claim. I know some people are sussing him based on how much he pushed back on claiming, but Barney and BK did the same and not all of them can be scum. His choices for lynches don’t make much sense to me, but I also don’t think scum would keep pushing on those lynches. Maybe this is just WIFOM thinking, but if scum wants a mislynch this DP, they’re going to pick easier targets that haven’t already been written off. Couple that with his decision to keep pushing the Pie wagon even directly after he claimed Mark Grayson and it just doesn’t scream “scum” to me. It also doesn’t help that, with BK as my scumread, I’m looking for a plausible pairing with him and I just don’t see it with Austin. They’ve been too antagonistic and it doesn’t come off as bussing. Same with Pie. I’d be willing to consider this choice, but my gut tells me it’s the wrong way to go.

Barney: I have his character down to a few plausible options based on his softclaim, but I end up feeling pretty null on him behaviorally. The nature of his softclaim gives him more room to shift than I’d like, and much as I agree that his frustration over the wagon felt natural, I could see him pushing back like that as scum. 
Savant
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@whiteflame
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Couple that with his decision to keep pushing the Pie wagon even directly after he claimed Mark Grayson and it just doesn’t scream “scum” to me.
Given how confident Austin was about lynching Pie, the fact that he's continuing to push hard seems like a scum strategy. I could see a scum player panicking and sticking to their guns even after making a mistake, fearing that pivoting would be seen as unnatural. Whereas I think a town player would be willing to immediately adjust their accusation based on new evidence. It's not necessarily WIFOM, just an instinctive response. Austin said he would "bet his account" on Pie's claim being fake and entirely failed to deliver evidence for this. We could debate whether a scum player would pretend to act rationally or irrationally, but I think a town player would act more rationally than Austin has been so far.

That said, whiteflame knows Austin much better than I do and has outed him before as scum. So if he feels strongly about this, I'd be willing to go with him and let Austin live for at least today. But if we do lynch Austin later and he's scum, that puts some suspicion on whiteflame in my opinion.
Savant
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I don't see any reason to suspect whiteflame right now though, he's being incredibly logical and I don't sense any ulterior motive.
Vader
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Bout to grab my lunch and read up on the DP
JoeBob
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I am down to lynch either Austin, Pie, or Barney, as none of them stick out to me as scum.

Rest of the people can be confirmed or are seeming town to me.
AustinL0926
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@Savant
ILikePie5 - Claimed the main character with no counterclaims
It could just be a ballsy fakeclaim, and the role doesn't match up very well. He's also behaved relatively scummily throughout the DP, such as deliberately misconstruing my arguments in order to make my reads seem inconsistent when they're not.

BK - Claimed doctor and arguably second main character in the show, with no counterclaims
Doctor is an easy fakeclaim because none of the other characters have any powers remotely related to healing. Also, you're completely ignoring the many scummy things that BK has done in this DP, such as wagon shopping, attempting to push a lynch without reasoning, etc. I find it strange that you haven't addressed this at all.

Savant - Said multiple times that my role can be confirmed.
I actually missed that. Can you point me out to that post? If so, I will withdraw my lynch attempt (at least for today).
AustinL0926
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Austin "suspects" me because he thinks I want to frame best Best.Korea. Then he turns around and advocated lynching Best.Korea.
I think you and BK aren't on the same team, but you're both behaving weirdly. That post of yours was really sus, but it doesn't overrride my behavioral tells on BK. It's possible to consider two worlds in which either you're scum trying to frame BK, or you're town and we should push BK instead.

AustinL0926
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@JoeBob
I am down to lynch either Austin, Pie, or Barney, as none of them stick out to me as scum.

Rest of the people can be confirmed or are seeming town to me.
If you're going to choose from that pool, then I would prefer to be lynched rather than Barney. I have my reasons why (and no, it's not because we're both scum). However, I think you should also consider BK. He's been behaving pretty scummy, plus his role is not confirmable at all. It's very easily for him to claim that he got roleblocked, or that his protection got strongmanned, or etc....
AustinL0926
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@Savant
Given how confident Austin was about lynching Pie, the fact that he's continuing to push hard seems like a scum strategy. I could see a scum player panicking and sticking to their guns even after making a mistake, fearing that pivoting would be seen as unnatural. Whereas I think a town player would be willing to immediately adjust their accusation based on new evidence. It's not necessarily WIFOM, just an instinctive response. Austin said he would "bet his account" on Pie's claim being fake and entirely failed to deliver evidence for this. We could debate whether a scum player would pretend to act rationally or irrationally, but I think a town player would act more rationally than Austin has been so far.
I tunnel as town and sheep as scum. That's pretty much my meta, and you can check my previous games to confirm it. Do you really think I would still be pushing Pie so hard when I know for a fact it's making me look bad? I could've just dropped it after he claimed, with the logic of "he claimed MC, no CCs, sorry for pushing you". There's reasons why I didn't. Town acts rationally, scum behaves rationally.



AustinL0926
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That said, whiteflame knows Austin much better than I do and has outed him before as scum. So if he feels strongly about this, I'd be willing to go with him and let Austin live for at least today. But if we do lynch Austin later and he's scum, that puts some suspicion on whiteflame in my opinion.
Interesting. Savant shows that he's read all the way back to My Favorite Anime Characters mafia, yet claims not to know about the existence of a strongman or roleblocker. Just a note.

JoeBob
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@AustinL0926
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Thx :p
Vader
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Austin's lynch choices make zero sense for day 1:

ILikePie5 - Claimed the main character with no counterclaims
BK - Claimed doctor and arguably second main character in the show, with no counterclaims
Savant - Said multiple times that my role can be confirmed.

The only thing I don't like about Austin's behavior is that it seems to jump around a lot from his claims. It seems very drastic versus a natural shift, almost as if it's manufactured.
Best.Korea
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At this point, I am ready to tunnel Austin until he is lynched.

We should just do human wave tactic here and all just charge to vote for him to lynch him immediatelly without further thinking.

Human wave tactics are popular in war, so I dont see what are we waiting.

Unvote

VTL Austin
Vader
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@Savant
Austin "suspects" me because he thinks I want to frame best Best.Korea. Then he turns around and advocated lynching Best.Korea.
Honestly I'd have to read more into this than what you said
Vader
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This is the whiteflame I'm a lot more used to seeing than the last game. Logical and consistent with his behavior. WF gets put in the slight town pile for me
AustinL0926
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@Vader
The only thing I don't like about Austin's behavior is that it seems to jump around a lot from his claims. It seems very drastic versus a natural shift, almost as if it's manufactured.
Can you show where I've jumped around? Pretty sure that my reads have been fairly consistent...
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Any reasoning for trying to get a quick lynch while hampering discussion?
Vader
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I honestly can't really tell what this could be for Austin. For me it seems like it's a desperation attempt to try and get lynch off him at some point. I also have seen him do this a few times before as scum when he was first starting. Granted that was awhile ago and I think his game has evolved, but I think it was only 2 games I personally played with him and seems to contrast. However in the last game, he benefited a lot from laying behind and me and whiteflame did a lot of the bickering. This is a different story here and if he tried to do the same thing I think he would be likely scum read.

Hard to say. I still think Barney is my top candidate solely because of the inconsistency with his role justification being from the characters personality and not power, but I could see the behavioral reasons as to voting Austin. I also think Austin claiming makes it easier for town to decipher. I also think his role aligns pretty damn well with his character for the most part. However, Austin could be trying to pull a fast one with the Bleeder. Here is what I think

His role has a flavor of Bleeder where it also includes DP. I think what is in the realm of possibilities is that Austin can claimed he had been NK'd in like DP2-3 and draw out a mislynch while sacrificing himself. I could see that as a play but could Austin pull it off? 

Not sure. I think his behavior aligns a bit with scum enough to where I wouldn't have problem lynching him. I'd rather not put the hammer until I analyze the full situation a bit more in depth
Vader
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The only thing I don't like about Austin's behavior is that it seems to jump around a lot from his claims. It seems very drastic versus a natural shift, almost as if it's manufactured.
Can you show where I've jumped around? Pretty sure that my reads have been fairly consistent...

By jumping around, I don't mean you are changing your reads, I mean as in your lynch targets. Sure, you have stated the same targets on who you want to lynch, but you have hopped onto every wagon there is with role claiming and looking at who to lynch. From Pie, to BK, to Barney. Your Pie train was literally a 6 post turn into an L-1 spearheaded by you, then it jumped to BK and then you cried foul when it happened to you. 
Savant
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@AustinL0926
Savant shows that he's read all the way back to My Favorite Anime Characters mafia, yet claims not to know about the existence of a strongman or roleblocker. Just a note.
I remember some details but not others. It was a while ago, but I tried to pay attention to what characters know about others. This is your most logical reason for accusing me so far (though it's still not excellent). But I'm definitely not the most suspicious character here, and I will confirm my role anyway.
Savant
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@AustinL0926
what characters know about others
Misphrased that. Should be "which players know about others"
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@AustinL0926
While I still suspect Austin, I'll admit that looking into which games I'm referencing in an attempt to trap me feels like town behavior. Seems like scum would be more focused on how they look to other players rather than looking for logical holes in what other players say.

But that said, I don't know how threatening BK into healing JoeBob actually makes me more suspicious. If I was scum and knew about the role blocker, I would have expected to be called on that. After all, Austin admits I have experience with mafia. Maybe it's an elaborate WIFOM gambit, but what would be the point? In all honesty, a mistake like that shouldn't make me look more like town or scum. Even if I was scum, it would be more likely to be a mistake rather than an illogical framing plan that would easily be discovered if I tried to push it too far.
ILikePie5
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@AustinL0926
I am the Bleeder, but it's weirdly flavored (for balance reasons I presume). If I die in the DP, I get revived for the NP and then die at the end of the next DP (I can still vote and post during that DP). If I die in the NP, I get revived for the DP and then die at the end of the next NP (and can still be targeted during that NP).

E.g.

Lynched DP2, I survive to the end of DP3
NKed NP2, I survive to the end of NP3
Interesting that you revealed the flavor. That’s really odd and specific. Either way, you should be the lynch today. Worst case you’re town and we get the views of a townie tomorrow. Best case you’re scum and you die.
Barney
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This BK post feels really inorganic to me. How common have janitors been in past BK games to make him especially worried about them?

My gut says that Austin and BK are the scum team. Austin pushes the BK lynch after the doctor claim, which he knows won’t go through. If BK then fails to doctor then flips scum, Austin gets town cred for having been after him since day 1.
ILikePie5
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@whiteflame
Yeah… behaviorally, he’s still the most sus to me, though the Doc claim makes it hard to justify picking him this DP. That being said, the fact that scum have a fake role claim (one that Luna says he only hinted at) makes me suspect that scum received a pretty strong claim. I’m not ruling out Doc for that.
See here’s the thing. He pulled the same bullshit in Mharman’s game I think where me and GP were scum. He’s a troll. It’s hard to judge him for his behavior. But the way he’s playing aligns perfectly with the play in that game.
AustinL0926
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@Vader
I honestly can't really tell what this could be for Austin. For me it seems like it's a desperation attempt to try and get lynch off him at some point. I also have seen him do this a few times before as scum when he was first starting. Granted that was awhile ago and I think his game has evolved, but I think it was only 2 games I personally played with him and seems to contrast. However in the last game, he benefited a lot from laying behind and me and whiteflame did a lot of the bickering. This is a different story here and if he tried to do the same thing I think he would be likely scum read.
IDK man. If you really don't see a difference between my play last game and this game, then I'm not really sure what to say. If you think that I'm trying to get a mislynch by pushing two moderately townread players (Pie and Savant), then I'm a little bit annoyed that you think I would play this blatantly as scum.

Hard to say. I still think Barney is my top candidate solely because of the inconsistency with his role justification being from the characters personality and not power,
I'm not a fan of pushing Barney, but lynching without even asking him for his justification is crazy. Not even mentioning that Lunatic said that the justifications don't necessarily make sense...


but I could see the behavioral reasons as to voting Austin. I also think Austin claiming makes it easier for town to decipher. I also think his role aligns pretty damn well with his character for the most part. However, Austin could be trying to pull a fast one with the Bleeder. Here is what I think

His role has a flavor of Bleeder where it also includes DP. I think what is in the realm of possibilities is that Austin can claimed he had been NK'd in like DP2-3 and draw out a mislynch while sacrificing himself. I could see that as a play but could Austin pull it off? 
Can you clarify what you mean by this?

Not sure. I think his behavior aligns a bit with scum enough to where I wouldn't have problem lynching him. I'd rather not put the hammer until I analyze the full situation a bit more in depth
That wouldn't really be the worst of all possibilities, I suppose, but I'm not going to let myself get mislynched without a fight.

AustinL0926
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@Vader
By jumping around, I don't mean you are changing your reads, I mean as in your lynch targets. Sure, you have stated the same targets on who you want to lynch, but you have hopped onto every wagon there is with role claiming and looking at who to lynch. From Pie, to BK, to Barney. Your Pie train was literally a 6 post turn into an L-1 spearheaded by you, then it jumped to BK and then you cried foul when it happened to you. 
I think this is somewhat misleading. I pushed Pie out of legitimate reads on him. I didn't push BK iirc. I did gently push Barney, but I regret that and immediately townread him after he softclaimed and got defensive.

ILikePie5
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@JoeBob
Send two probes out tonight. One to me and one to Savant. If I die, which I most likely will, then savant can confirm you as town. Savant also said he can confirm him as well, so we can confirm two people tonight, which helps us incredibly.

What do you think of this idea?
The problem is that we don’t know what roles scum have, so they can manipulate any potential plan we may have.
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@ILikePie5
True