Themeless Mafia 1 - Day Phase 1

Author: Lucky

Posts

Read-only
Total: 804
Danielle
Danielle's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 2,049
3
3
4
Danielle's avatar
Danielle
3
3
4
-->
@Lunatic
So you think YYW, Sui and Objectivity were the only ones who would be inactive? Since when would YYW be inactive lol he talks a lot. 

What do you think of oroigami -- does he have a scum/town tell? How about Ragnar? 

What does the math say about the utility of no lynching today assuming town mislynches? 
Danielle
Danielle's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 2,049
3
3
4
Danielle's avatar
Danielle
3
3
4
-->
@Lunatic
Oh, re: applying pressure I didn't see that the game was all (mostly) vanilla townies so I thought there would be claims to go by and catch people lying in. 
Danielle
Danielle's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 2,049
3
3
4
Danielle's avatar
Danielle
3
3
4
I just clicked the links in the OP. Sorry, I didn't know this D3 or w/e was a popular set up. I'm not used to it as I don't play Mafia outside of DDO and old DDO at that, so I'm used to a different kind of day phase one. 
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 7,454
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Danielle
So you think YYW, Sui and Objectivity were the only ones who would be inactive? Since when would YYW be inactive lol he talks a lot. 
Now I am lost lol. No they had all posted before I voted you.

What do you think of oroigami -- does he have a scum/town tell? How about Ragnar? 
As far as Oromagi goes, I literally have never seen him play mafia. I've been playing mafia here since October, and his luck at not being mafia in any of the games is astronomical. So I don't really have a rubric to grade against his town vs scum play. His activity levels can very and the games he's more interested in he can post more, and this game resembles some of his town play from others like Supadudz South Park mafia. But I don't want to pass him off as town yet because of that. 

Ragnar I've seen as scum a couple of times, off the top of my head a drafter quickfire game, and another themeless game where the only town power role was a vigilante. While he did end up winning that one, I think a lot of people had nailed him as scummy in DP1  though. Ragnar is pretty logical and thorough as town, looks for gamebreaking ways to deduce scum. I'd say if he doesn't seem that interested or deductive it's more likely a scum tell. Judging based on the last quickfire I hosted with him as a player. 
Danielle
Danielle's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 2,049
3
3
4
Danielle's avatar
Danielle
3
3
4
Everyone make sure to post something tomorrow. I can probably get online before work and if not then after work, like 9 pm. Hopefully we can wrap up the day phase on Thursday.

Thanks, Lucky, for getting this together. Goodnight. 
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 7,454
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
vary*
Danielle
Danielle's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 2,049
3
3
4
Danielle's avatar
Danielle
3
3
4
-->
@Lunatic
In post 22 or 23 you said: "Well,  most everyone I would have suspected to be inactive has posted already. VTL Danielle."

The only players who had posted at that time were Sui, YYW and Objectivity so it seemed weird to think they + me would be the only potential inactives. That's what I meant in my last post to you.

Anyways goodnight, I'll be back tomorrow  before 9 or after 9. 


Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 7,454
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Danielle
In post 22 or 23 you said: "Well,  most everyone I would have suspected to be inactive has posted already. VTL Danielle."

The only players who had posted at that time were Sui, YYW and Objectivity so it seemed weird to think they + me would be the only potential inactives. That's what I meant in my last post to you.

It's been ages since i've played with or seen any of you guys, so whether or not any of you would still be around was up in the air. I guess lucky must have been communicating with you all well outside of DART though. All of you were active in the games you played on DDO during it's prime when the games forum was poppin' but I kind of expected not many of you to show up.
Danielle
Danielle's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 2,049
3
3
4
Danielle's avatar
Danielle
3
3
4
I probably read what you said wrong (I'm very tired) but anyway that's what I thought you meant - that you voted for me because you thought I should be active. Apparently I misunderstood you. But out of those players (Sui, Objectivity, YYW) I don't see any of them but Sui really being inactive so it seemed like a weird statement. I could be reading into it, who knows. Goodnight for realz :)

Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 7,454
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Zaradi
So zaradi, build your case. Don't leave your boring un-explained vote just hanging there. You've got a scum tell, so push it, try to convince others. Come on, man, what's your game plan? Or was the attempt at intimidation the extent of it, and was the read actually as contrived as your earlier lines of questioning?
Lucky
Lucky's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 117
0
1
3
Lucky's avatar
Lucky
0
1
3
Official Vote Count

Ragnar [2]: Danielle (180), sui_generis (184),
Danielle [1]: oromagi (80),
airmax1227 [1]: Ragnar (114),
Lunatic [1]: Zaradi (204),
Objectivity [0]:
oromagi [0]:
coal [0]:
Zaradi [0]:
sui_generis [0]:

Not Voting [4]: airmax1227, Objectivity, Lunatic (154), coal (168),

With 9 in play, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 7:10pm EST Friday, May 22nd.

Zaradi
Zaradi's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 705
2
3
7
Zaradi's avatar
Zaradi
2
3
7
-->
@Lunatic
was the read actually as contrived as your earlier lines of questioning?
If you think the pressure I've been putting on people is contrived then why aren't you pressuring me? That seems like a pretty valid reason to pressure someone
Lucky
Lucky's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 117
0
1
3
Lucky's avatar
Lucky
0
1
3
-->
@sui_generis
how did you link posts by post numbers in #128 
I type the post number, highlight it, and click the link button that's between "Ordered List" and "Undo". I put the direct link to that post into the pop-up box. You can get the direct link by clicking the orange post # on the post itself, and copying the link from the URL.
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 7,454
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Zaradi
I am genuinely trying to determine your intentions, I dont have a confirmation bias that convoluted reads = scum tell but your expected outcome doesn't seem clear if you aren't even attempting to make a case or try and get people on board with your thinking. I am wanting you to answer.
Zaradi
Zaradi's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 705
2
3
7
Zaradi's avatar
Zaradi
2
3
7
-->
@Lunatic
What is a valid reason to pressure someone, in your opinion?
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 7,454
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Zaradi
That's debatable; but irrelevant to the situation. You haven't even given a reason. Saying something is scummy and refusing to elaborate is pretty vague. Give me your reason and I'll decide whether I buy if its genuine or not.
Zaradi
Zaradi's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 705
2
3
7
Zaradi's avatar
Zaradi
2
3
7
-->
@Lunatic
Take a step back from the situation, then, and just answer the question.
Zaradi
Zaradi's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 705
2
3
7
Zaradi's avatar
Zaradi
2
3
7
Also re-read 227 since you got this elaboration-boner thing going on. 
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 7,454
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Zaradi
I don't think there are things that are tells that apply across the board with all players. I judge tells on a case by case basis based on the personality and playstyle of the person.
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 7,454
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
Its easy to fall into these kinds of traps.


Zaradi
Zaradi's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 705
2
3
7
Zaradi's avatar
Zaradi
2
3
7
-->
@Lunatic
I don't think there are things that are tells that apply across the board with all players. I judge tells on a case by case basis based on the personality and playstyle of the person.
That doesn't answer my question. I'm asking, from your perspective, what is *a* valid reason to pressure *someone*. It could be a specific person or not a specific person, and it could be any reason you can think of, but I want you to give me an example of a valid reason to pressure someone. 
Barney
Barney's avatar
Debates: 50
Posts: 2,943
5
9
10
Barney's avatar
Barney
5
9
10
I'm like four pages behind, and I have some work to do on other parts of the site. If anything important happen, someone please tag me.
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,689
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Lunatic

--> @oromagi
Well, he's usually pretty impervious to pressure although one game he crowed before the official vote count and gave away the game if I remember right....
???

I only partially remembered.  January seems like a long time ago now. 
Cap America- you were T'Challa Third Party lyncher. 

oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,689
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Lunatic
As far as Oromagi goes, I literally have never seen him play mafia. I've been playing mafia here since October, and his luck at not being mafia in any of the games is astronomical.
It is weird.  However, I was scum briefly this week when I took over for WaterPhoenix the same night Wylted copped me.    So I think that makes like 4 times  now in maybe 45 games or so. 
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,689
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Danielle
Remarkably, in that same Capt. America game I noticed that you get mentioned.  ILikePie5 asking Singularity(Wylted) if he is you.

Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 7,454
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Zaradi
Sorry for the delay, was driving home from work.


That doesn't answer my question. I'm asking, from your perspective, what is *a* valid reason to pressure *someone*. It could be a specific person or not a specific person, and it could be any reason you can think of, but I want you to give me an example of a valid reason to pressure someone. 
If you are looking for a cookie cutter reason to find someone as scummy, I don't have one. The closest thing for me would be trying to gauge whether a person has a genuine interest in catching scum. You for example, started questioning me and oro earlier in the phase and just dropped it. It seems like you were following something you may have thought was a lead but without any explanation of your intentions, and then just stopping in the middle of it, I have to ask what the point of it is. Are you really trying to catch scum as a townie, or is your play as scum to look like an aggressive and intimidating detective to deter people from looking into you and give out what you hope are town vibes? But my previous answer does apply, some because the same logic can't be used for every player. If someone I know and expect to be a high poster as town is playing lazy like. I might wonder why that persons less interested, but I wouldn't wonder why someone like greyparrot wasn't interested in contributing the same way. If I know someone has a high ego, and is going to defend that at all costs because it's in their personality to do so, I'm less likely to think their behavior is  defensive or scummy where as I might think it was scummy if Airmax reacted to defend his ego as opposed to trying to scum hunt. I take things with a grain of salt in accordance to who I am judging. I don't always get it right, sometimes my assumptions of how people play are wrong or outdated. In the Office mafia I greatly over-estimated Drafter's play based on what I thought what something he wouldn't do and was wrong there. Sometimes you get it wrong, but in cases of Virtuoso's themeless game I got it right when weighing in on warren. It's not a flawless strategy, and I don't claim to be the best mafia player, but I do have a lot of experience. And I know you can't use the same logic with everyone. You can policy lynch them all day and they still won't learn, so at the end of the day do you want to play to win, or play to how you think your version of the game should be played? 

Heading to bed, I'll be on all afternoon. Looking forward to your "case" to see if it shows any authenticity behind it. If you are town, I invite you to be open minded and not play into your confirmation bias. I am not sure if I should treat that as a scum tell in regards (winks at Coal) to you or not.
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 7,454
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6

--> @oromagi
Well, he's usually pretty impervious to pressure although one game he crowed before the official vote count and gave away the game if I remember right....
???

I only partially remembered.  January seems like a long time ago now. 
Cap America- you were T'Challa Third Party lyncher. 

Out of context that makes me sound really noobie, when in actuality, in 99% of games I would have met my win condition and won in that same scenario. I played to town's wincon after that fail though.
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 7,454
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
Goodnight folks.
Barney
Barney's avatar
Debates: 50
Posts: 2,943
5
9
10
Barney's avatar
Barney
5
9
10
-->
@airmax1227
@Lucky
I'm gona go ahead an OMGUS Sui and Ragnar for fun... pressuring me for inactivity due to employment is uncool... so they are on my scum list for, well, reasons
I'm a firm believer in there being two types of scum. There are mafia who are forced to be scum, and townsmen who choose to be scum. Getting rid of the first is how the game is won,  but removing the second isn't so bad.

Of course I did not know you were at work. Sorry about that, i did not mean to be an ass. I'll keep your schedule in mind the remaining days.

Unvote
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,689
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Lunatic

--> @oromagi
Well, he's usually pretty impervious to pressure although one game he crowed before the official vote count and gave away the game if I remember right....
???

I only partially remembered.  January seems like a long time ago now. 
Cap America- you were T'Challa Third Party lyncher. 

Out of context that makes me sound really noobie, when in actuality, in 99% of games I would have met my win condition and won in that same scenario. I played to town's wincon after that fail though.
You totally had me on that train