Naruto Mafia DP2

Author: Vader

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#121
Pattern
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@MisterChris
I argued that he was most likely innocent. No one listened. So here we are. That's why post #25 exists. Also, the idea that I'd have insider info is bs. I always reserved the possibility of Speed being mafia. I just argued that it was most likely not the case. 
I mean to make it sound like you argued for him being innocent tooth and nail just isn't true. I looked into the end of that day phase to make sure.

"It's not ideal.. But I want to give Grey the opportunity to give us information through his tracking ability, and I also don't quite buy needing to lynch speed"

Not quite buying the need to lynch speed = / = arguing his innocence lol.

Then you were even considering lynching him! So this is a lie in general.

"Alright, maybe. But I'll only seriously consider a vote if it's clear Speed is going to be lynched. Get some more support and I'll be tempted (like 1-2 votes away). As much as I'd hate to vote without much evidence, if the town is in universal agreement I don't really see a reason for my biases to stand in the way."

If you were so convinced he was town why would you say this at all? From my perspective it looks like you weren't too phased that he was about to be lynched at all, so trying to use your lack of vote on him as evidence that you are town does the opposite for me lol.


#122
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@WaterPhoenix
why? it may be a bus but it's more likely than not it isn't from where i see it.
The situation just feels odd. Out of all the possibilities of what happened last night like the hider hiding behind mafia, the mafia targetting that1user, Ragnar instantly assumes there was no kill because he roleblocked the person carrying out the kill? The odds of that happening are 10 to 1, first of all. But even odder is that Pie's claim has only ever been seen in his own game before by most people here, which lends credence to him being potentially scum. I am just saying that it feels a bit planned like a bus. The fact that everyone is just going for this theory over the much more obvious and likely ones, and that it resulted in a scummy claim. Feels planned and shady af if you ask me.
#123
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@ILikePie5
How do y’all feel about Oro? He’s seeming a bit lurky which contradicts his town meta where he’s usually more active and aggressively pressuring people
Oro always has questionable activity. I literally threw a tantrum about it at the end of lucky's game, about how he always plays just enough to get replaced. That said, his activity and interest seems ever so slightly higher in this game than in lucky's when he was scum. Though he was going through personal hardship during that game, which explains the overdue absence, but his activity is generally just low.
#124
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Another scummy thing is that after reading last day phase, it seems clear that MisterChris thought that That1User is the doctor even though she denied this at some point (he must have missed it). This makes her death look like a night kill instead of visit to the mafia.

Misterchris near the end of the day phase: "It's in the best interest of the doctor to lay low. She was outed, but didn't confirm it likely to keep at least a minimal amount of mystery about her."

That1user earlier: "He didn't oust the doctor"


So much happened that phase I can easily see mafia missing this, especially if there are lurkers or inactives on the mafia team. Misterchris definitely missed it, and that1user died. Just something that's bugging me and I have to get it off my chest.


#125
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@Vader
@Crocodile
Where's croc?
#126
MisterChris
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@Pattern
Frankly, I said that I might lynch speed but never really intended to unless some new argument blew me away. And I always maintained that he was most likely innocent. I did not fight tooth and nail, I should've, but I didn't
#127
MisterChris
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@Pattern
That1user earlier: "He didn't oust the doctor"
Yeah I missed this. Sakura being the doctor makes a lot of sense if you've seen the anime... In fact, it makes so much sense I might've maintained that she was just lying even if I HAD seen it. Not really a scum tell, though. If you will remember, I argued for the protection of That1.
#128
MisterChris
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@oromagi

Pie's justification that if the BOSS villain survives, TOWN wins doesn't make sense.
"My justification is the fact that Kaguya was the last villain who stood up against Naruto and is arguably the most powerful character on the show thus allowing me to unilaterally win for town.”

I didn't question this at first, but this justification only makes sense if there is no theme split... So you're right. If we were to lynch Pie it would tell us if there is a theme split of heroes and villains. That said, Pie has not demonstrated anti-town behavior, and provides some extra reassurance: “If at the end of the day we have no one, I’m more than happy to be lynched” Pattern adds: “Didn't supa have a solider in south park mafia? I know he likes the roles that are "different"  And as you said, he is open about his scumminess. Does this fit Pie scum meta?






#129
Pattern
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@MisterChris
Frankly, I said that I might lynch speed but never really intended to unless some new argument blew me away. And I always maintained that he was most likely innocent. I did not fight tooth and nail, I should've, but I didn't
I am not pointing this out to say that you should have fought him from being lynched. I am pointing this out to prove that you are lying about how well you "argued" against his lynch as a means to give you towncred.

"RIP Speed. I TOLD YOU GUYS"

You didn't "tell" us anything. 

"I argued that he was most likely innocent."

You didn't "Argue" anything either. You using his being lynched as an "I told you so moment" just is a lie. You didn't seem like you cared all that much either way last phase.
#130
Pattern
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@MisterChris
Yeah I missed this. Sakura being the doctor makes a lot of sense if you've seen the anime... In fact, it makes so much sense I might've maintained that she was just lying even if I HAD seen it.
What I am saying is the fact you didn't know she said this, it makes sense why she would have been night killed. If you thought she wasn't the doc, she wouldn't have been worth a night kill.

If you will remember, I argued for the protection of That1.
This makes even less sense if you thought she was the doctor. Who would have protected her?
#131
ILikePie5
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@oromagi
I can’t read what you’re saying cause the formatting is garbage on mobile. I’d prefer if you would just Post like normal so I don’t have to go to a computer.

I’ll respond to your posts from my POV

I’m confused as to what you mean that I bandwagoned Speed’s lynch? I had been clear since he claimed PGO that he should be policy lynched throughout the DP if no alternative was present. The alternative present was a claimed tracker who would have to commit suicide which was wack.

Yes, I have a scummy claim and I was open about since the beginning. I argued why the theme likely wasn’t good vs evil for this exact reason because I had a scummy character yet I was town. I have no clue what the Allied Shinobi Forces are but I’m assuming they’re the good guys which brings us back to the good guys vs the bad guys theme again.

As for my justification, I didn’t come up with it lol, Supa did. Speed’s, That1s, and Greyparrots justifications dont make sense just like mine. Yours seems to. Kinda mod psyche here but the way I make my games is choosing the scum to be roles with justifications that fit characters according to theme, then create all the town roles to balance it out resulting in some “reaching” claims.
#132
ILikePie5
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@Pattern
Does your justification make sense?

Cause I’m noticing a pattern that Oro laid out - Speed’s and That1s justifications didn’t make sense as townies and GP if he’s town which I believe he is doesn’t have a justification that makes sense either. Mine is also a stretch. Only Oro says his justification makes sense
#133
ILikePie5
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Gotta get back to work! Sociology has 50 pages of reading 😭😭
#134
MisterChris
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@Pattern
This makes even less sense if you thought she was the doctor. Who would have protected her?
Lots of unique roles here. I figured if there is at least one other person with an ability like that, they should make use of it. 
#135
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@Pattern
Ragnar instantly assumes there was no kill because he roleblocked the person carrying out the kill? The odds of that happening are 10 to 1
I can agree that there are other possibilities. As Oro mentioned, the odds shift further if there are any BPs (or even a real doctor... if there is one, please do not out yourself). However, I get better odds of lynching a scum this way, than I do if I just made it random.

Of course, yes, Grey, myself, and Pie could be the scum team doing some type of elaborate bus chain.
#136
MisterChris
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@Pattern
What I am saying is the fact you didn't know she said this, it makes sense why she would have been night killed. If you thought she wasn't the doc, she wouldn't have been worth a night kill.
This could be true of anyone here. I don't really understand why you're zeroed in on me. Just because I happened to miss one post? LMAO please
#137
MisterChris
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@Pattern
I am pointing this out to prove that you are lying about how well you "argued" against his lynch as a means to give you towncred.
Never said I argued well. You're putting words in my mouth. 

You didn't "tell" us anything. 
Yes I did. 
#138
Pattern
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@ILikePie5
Does your justification make sense?

Cause I’m noticing a pattern that Oro laid out - Speed’s and That1s justifications didn’t make sense as townies and GP if he’s town which I believe he is doesn’t have a justification that makes sense either. Mine is also a stretch. Only Oro says his justification makes sense
Personally I don't think my justification makes any sense, no.
#139
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@Barney
I did visit pie last night. I'm Ensui Nara, a rollblocker.
Why did you choose to roleblock pie?
#140
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@MisterChris
This could be true of anyone here. I don't really understand why you're zeroed in on me. Just because I happened to miss one post? LMAO please
It's that combined with the other stuff, like using speeds lynch to try and earn town cred, after not taking a real stance on almost anything last day phase. 

Never said I argued well. You're putting words in my mouth. 
You used the word argue, and argue you certainly did not. 

Yes I did. 
No you didn't you were almost considering lynching him yourself lol. 

"But I'll only seriously consider a vote if it's clear Speed is going to be lynched."
#141
oromagi
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@ILikePie5
I can’t read what you’re saying cause the formatting is garbage on mobile. I’d prefer if you would just Post like normal so I don’t have to go to a computer.
Try turning your phone 90 degrees to landscape.  That solves it on my iPhone.

#142
oromagi
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I am off to a BBQ.  Further updates tonight will be conditional on degree of sobriety.
Topic's author
#143
Vader
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@oromagi
Have fun!
#144
MisterChris
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@Pattern
You used the word argue, and argue you certainly did not. 
1 [intransitive] to disagree with someone in words

No you didn't you were almost considering lynching him yourself lol. 
Keyword ALMOST.

Here is a compilation of me saying Speed is most likely town. 

Face it, there is no true evidence that I'm mafia. You're reaching for a lead where there is none. 

What I said before is holding true:
you too often use debatable logic to come to grand conclusions... you often REALLY push a narrative on little evidence. 
Maybe you should brake the wagon for sec and objectively consider who here is the most scummy. Croc has been lurky and Oro makes a good point about Pie. 
#145
Pattern
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@MisterChris
Keyword ALMOST.

Here is a compilation of me saying Speed is most likely town. 

I've seen all of those posts, and it doesn't help you case because you were still okay with lynching if that's what the majority wanted (even though you didn't hop on the lynch, contradicting yourself), and then STILL had the gall to try and use your lack of joining the speed wagon to earn town cred. It just makes you look worse if anything.

Face it, there is no true evidence that I'm mafia. You're reaching for a lead where there is none. 

Evidence? What do you think this is, a legal case? There's rarely "evidence" that isn't psychologically based. I am trying to delve into your motives, your motives indicate you used speeds mislynch for town cred. Town don't need to say "I told you so", they just buckle up and look for the next scum.

Maybe you should brake the wagon for sec and objectively consider who here is the most scummy. Croc has been lurky and Oro makes a good point about Pie. 
My vote is currently on croc, I've recently asked the mod and croc where they are. I am considering pie being scum highly, mostly because of his claim being only ever seen in his own game, but something feels off about things. Just because I also suspect you, doesn't mean I am not looking into the others. 
#146
BearMan
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I'm surprised Croc has got this far for posting like what? One or two posts? Lynch all inactives:


VTL Croc


Meanwhile, protect GreyParrot, and investigate MisterChris' questionable behavior
#147
MisterChris
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@Pattern
I've seen all of those posts, and it doesn't help you case because you were still okay with lynching if that's what the majority wanted (even though you didn't hop on the lynch, contradicting yourself), and then STILL had the gall to try and use your lack of joining the speed wagon to earn town cred. It just makes you look worse if anything.
Alright, let's sum up your argument here.

In order for me to have "argued against a Speedrace lynching" I had to have:

1. Fought tooth and nail against it
2. Denounced everyone who hopped on board.
3. Not reserved the possibility of me being wrong.

Clearly this is ridiculous. I think what you're seeing is me being not entirely certain in either way. Truth is, I was 70-30 in favor of Speed.

Regardless, what you say was my attempt at "gaining town cred" was this:

RIP Speed. I TOLD YOU GUYS
A very mild form of lamentation.
or this:
In response to Pattern’s suspicion, let me make some arguments in my defense. 
 
I have regularly expressed my distaste at both a Speed and Grey lynch, and I’ve turned out to be correct. 
Literally me just saying I was right to deter the suspicion you already had.

You're reading into this way too much. Again: you too often use debatable logic to come to grand conclusions... you often REALLY push a narrative on little evidence. 

Evidence? What do you think this is, a legal case? There's rarely "evidence" that isn't psychologically based.
This entire game is simulating the proceedings of a jury... Even if it is not formal, I should hope that decisions are evidence-based. You act as if psychological evidence is not evidence. It is. The problem is, though, there needs to be a pattern of behavior. Taking a couple posts and extrapolating gargantuan claims is not psychological analysis, it is assumption. 
I am trying to delve into your motives, your motives indicate you used speeds mislynch for town cred. Town don't need to say "I told you so", they just buckle up and look for the next scum.
It really wasn't my intention to fish for town cred initially with my first comment (i.e. post 25. RIP Speed. I TOLD YOU GUYS).
The second one was in defense of myself. If defending myself is fishing for "town cred",  I don't exactly see this being an exclusive scum strat. You apply pressure to me and you think I am NOT going to try to get the town's trust? 
My vote is currently on croc, I've recently asked the mod and croc where they are. I am considering pie being scum highly, mostly because of his claim being only ever seen in his own game, but something feels off about things. Just because I also suspect you, doesn't mean I am not looking into the others. 
Sure. Fair point. Just maybe reallocate your efforts to where they are actually useful. 
#148
Crocodile
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k im back.


#149
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my top 3 scum reads?

#150
MisterChris
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@BearMan
investigate MisterChris' questionable behavior
Doesn't respond to my arguments, pushes narrative anyway.