But the bible is not a necessary axiom, its quite arbitrary, of course I wouldn't accept it out of anything but what the bible says. If a comic book had on it's pages, "Everything in this book is real" and was intended by the author seriously, would you believe it? No, of course you wouldn't, now, I don't think the bible is like a comic book, just a more general analogy.
Hi Theweakeredge, thanks again for your comments.
I disagree with you. You don't see the Bible as being necessary. I do. It is the revelation of God from God. It is in written form. It is therefore transparent. It is objective. And it is the axiom of billions of people around the world.
You say it is not necessary. Yet without the Bible, as an axiom, then everything else loses focus and becomes relative and purely subjective.
I have no issue with the stories in the Bible. I think the author's intent - is genuine. And clearly communicable. What parts would I not believe?
The Bible is a bookcase of books. It has lots of genres. It was written prior to Gutenberg. It is not a textbook. Yet it is a book which has guided and helped and comforted and brought joy to millions of people in history. Yes some people have used it terribly. Just like some people have used science terribly.
As I said above, no one is asking you to make it your axiom. Yet if you want to have fruitful discussions with Christians, with those who DO see it as an axiom, then commencing with your own axiom is not going to cut it. Historically, Christians who utilize their axiom of the bible have been at the forefront of many wonderful discoveries. Explorers traveled extensively. Scientists finding new science. Mathematicians with new formulas. Christians love knowledge. I always find it amusing when atheists suggest Christians are dumb or stupid. Such suggestions come about when atheists shut their eyes to history or try and put a different spin on history.
A comic book is not suggesting it is revelation. There are very few books in the world - even amongst the religious which claim themselves to be the words of God. I would suggest that most of these books - are a bit like like your comic book. (I don't think that self-witness is evidence it is true. Yet conversely without self-witness it could not be true) Yet given the existence of God, it is self evident he would reveal himself to us - as he chooses, not as we would like. This is why no one can see God at any time, except those who he chooses to reveal himself to. Yet, for God to suggest he is not only the creator of the world, and the giver of life, but importantly also the judge of the world, it would be foolish then not to provide to humanity the standards by which he will judge.
Ignorance is not an excuse. I am sure you have heard that said before. Just because a crook says - I don't know that law or I don't accept your jurisdiction, or I don't agree with your views, is not going to prevent the judge from sentencing that crook. Yet, the judge has no power to judge anyone if there is no standard.
The Bible indicates that these standards in the past were brought by God to man through prophets. They brought God's lawsuits against humanity. These are written down for us to read - in the OT. The Bible also says that in these latter days - God has revealed himself through his son, the Lord Jesus. His Apostles and others such as Paul took Jesus's teachings and expounded them. They are known as the apostolic teaching. This is the NT.
For Christians, the bible is God's standard. It is his measure of right and wrong. It contains many examples of good people and of bad people. Sometimes good people did bad things. Sometimes bad people did good things. It is a book that shows humanity in all of its ugliness and in all of its righteousness. Yet running right through it is a picture of God, an entirely righteous and holy God who points on every page to his Son the Lord Jesus.
What is interesting is that despite the fact that Christians see the holy and righteous God in its pages, others don't. I have mentioned this before - but I think this is one of the most fascinating aspects of the Bible. That two people can read the same passage and see two different narratives. And when I say two people - I mean two groups of people. For it is not that every individual reads it and sees something different, but that there really are two ways of perceiving its contents. A holy and Good God or an evil and vindicate god. Of course there is a third subset - those who say they don't care or have not made up their mind yet.
The point is - that for Christians the Bible is their axiom. Hence why some people continue to demonstrate its weakness by pointing out so called contradictions and how it is inconsistent with science etc and why God is such an evil monster.
The problem of course for these people is that they are always starting with their own axioms. Not with the Christian's axiom.
