XMAS MAFIA - END GAME

SirAnonymous plays like 100x more annoyingly neutral than whiteflame, but this assessment was accurate. I think town is used to focusing more on theme like I said so they don't go after neutral comments as much as they should.  To be honest I remember whiteflame being more scum-hunty last game but in this game I wasn't paying close attention to reads. This ^ observation by Magic seems legit; the point about him not being online at 9pm though was not (I'm never really online at night when I'm not modding). 

Anyway going for realz now.  

Magic u literally derailed your own wagon on white DP1

Watch/tracker are useless cause of the ninja.

Regarding whiteflame's play, I see both sides. Magic was 100% correct the way she assessed his play. However it's true that whiteflame tends to play that way most times. Just because he plays that way as town (so ya'll are right) doesn't mean it isn't scummy (so she is right). 

I predict Magic will scumread me for the next 10 games out of principle.

I genuinely think tunneling him for the logic she did, made it ultimately harder to read whiteflame, since at that point he had to dedicate all his time to responding to analysis about his meta consistencies with someone who hasn't played in a single game with him lol. I think magic's tunnel vision on whiteflame actually made it HARDER to read whiteflame by proxy since we weren't analyzing natural responses and gameplay.

Oh and @that1user you targeted MisterChris np2 which I thought was weird. Why not target Magic again? The standard caroler role makes you choose a different person each night, but I did not include that caveat. You should have picked someone you most read town and likely to live, which was Magic obviously. Not the person who just cc'd a power role lol. 

On this same note though, the game didn't get to go long enough for whiteflame to behave in a way that would indicate if he would follow his previous agrresive style or not. His meta of wanting to be more stand offish and vtnl dp1 was consistent with his play from avatar for example. I even told magic that if whiteflame is scum, it will probably be easier to pick up on it later. I genuinely think tunneling him for the logic she did, made it ultimately harder to read whiteflame, since at that point he had to dedicate all his time to responding to analysis about his meta consistencies with someone who hasn't played in a single game with him lol. I think magic's tunnel vision on whiteflame actually made it HARDER to read whiteflame by proxy since we weren't analyzing natural responses and gameplay.

How so?

I just want to say that I've played in like 4 games with Water and I've scum read him in every single game, and in every single game he was town. I've scum read Water when I was scum and knew he wasn't scum. I've even scum read Water while I was MODDING and thought... am I tripping? Did I make him scum by accident? He's scum, right? That's happened twice lol. He is one of a kind. 

Thank you for the acknowledgment. Maybe this will earn my reads more cred in the future. 

I never said it was all your fault. There was a wealth of reasons, including my inability to convince people. As I have explained multiple times, my read was not limited to the behavior you all explained from prior games with White. For whatever reason, my reads and analysis tend to carry little weight in these games. I am sure that is in part a skill I should work on, but it is hard not to think it is some personal judgment you and others are making concerning the weight and value you believe my reads warrant. Having played with you a number of times, that is a bit frustrating to be screaming a fact (that turns out to be right, for all the reasons I came to the conclusion in the first place) with town being the main voices undermining me and writing me off as irrational (Speed and You in particular). When certain people are sure of their reads, those reads are accorded with more respect. If you have feedback for how I can improve my presentation to be afforded a similar level of respect, I would love to hear because it is useless to be right if you cannot get anyone to back you up. 

I am going to say this one more time for the people in the back. My analysis was no limited to his passive nature. It was logical inconsistency, willingness to flip flop under slight pushback, pushing reads/lynch targets without a vote etc.

You all focused on the passive play and kept saying that is his town meta too and I kept saying that was not my only basis so it didn't change my read. For whatever reason, Town didn't want to hear an argument on White, which I found especially strange since you had like 5 games to base his meta on, none of which he was scum in, as he just acknowledged. 

This mafia game lasted 2 days and 2 hours.

I'm right there with you here, especially after she stopped responding to my posts. If anything, I tend to reveal more when I'm asked to provide inferences on the game and put myself out there more. That tends to lead to at least some subset of players scum reading me, and even when that's inaccurate, at least it's based on some shift in behavior. Pushing a narrative that basically says "your normal play is scummy" just does more to prevent me from showing anything I'm doing differently.

And I'll say this: that's my normal play, too. In DP1, I tend to shift around a lot. I've jumped from vote to vote and given reads without backing them up with votes before. It's not terribly unusual for me, and while that might seem scummy to you (and I could understand how it does), it's not any kind of stand-out performance from other games where I have behaved the same way as town. Didn't say I was a good player, not claiming to be doing this well, just saying that my normal poor behaviors aren't scum tells. They're just me mucking about.

So no one is attacking your play, you were successful. But do not try to undermine my accurate read by claiming it was illogical or baseless.