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@zedvictor4
They show me things I did not know. THat is how I know they are real.
Why the Attitude!?
Posts
Total:
81
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@janesix
What do you mean?
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@zedvictor4
I have been shown things in dreams, that seem to have validity. Other ways too.
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@janesix
"Other ways too"....Still vague.
And dreams are generally an abstract response to awake experiences..... So validity may well "seem" to be apparent.
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@FLRW
Religious people are less intelligent on average than atheists because faith is an instinct and clever people are better at rising above their instincts, researchers have claimed.The theory — called the 'Intelligence-Mismatch Association Model' — was proposed by a pair of authors who set out to explain why numerous studies over past decades have found religious people to have lower average intelligence than people who do not believe in a god.
This begs the question: what is the intelligence of one who thinks intelligence is quantifiable? What is the intelligence of one who elides the bias of research that creates these metrics?
You are correct so often!
Thanks Jane. You are truthful so often.
To Zed - I don't need any more "proof" than I already have.
Neither do I.
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@Athias
Christian; My child is dying from smallpox, Praise the Lord!
Intelligent Man: Let's find a cure for smallpox!
Christian: My child is dying from Bubonic plague, Praise the Lord!
Intelligent Man: Let's find a cure for the Bubonic plague!
Athias, I pray you find Humanism.
The point is that God might have started everything by creating 2 dimensional strings, but after that It had no affect on the Universe
except to give people an opiate.
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@drafterman
I never said it is wishful thinking because it is indoctrination. I am saying that it is both, independently and separately. It is pretty much understood and accepted that humans are predisposed toward superstitious thinking, pareidolia, and wishful thinking. Religion is merely a product of that. (#1)
And again, this is exactly the kind of crap that causes presumptuous attitudes and in return interrupting productivity. You can't make assumptions like this, impose them on others and walk away feeling like you've been intellectually honest. I'm here to say no sir, try again. If you want to remain intellectually dishonest then you might never get to the truth of a claim. You'll never know that spirituality is based upon observation because you've made the assumption that anything related is the product of wishful thinking and indoctrination. You have to ask me what my motivations and reasons for accepting certain things are, not assert them. Do you understand any of that? or will you just repeat the same nonsense?
That's my question. When you take the universe at face value and accept as true only what is most obvious, that caries with it the implicit assumption that the universe somehow conforms to what is obvious to humans.
You're misunderstanding what I meant here, what is obvious are the results of critical thinking, evidence, logic, commonsense, good reasoning and correlation. I thought I made that clear in the last post. IDK though, lets see...
"When I say that it is obvious, I mean that it is obvious once we apply critical thinking, logic and commonsense that it becomes obvious the universe is a product of a Creator. Now I admit, that's my own interpretation but one that is based on reality."
Nothing you've said here is novel or fresh.
Lol...well considering this is a topic based on the presumptuous attitudes of atheists no, of course there's nothing new or fresh about that, it's all the same garbage that's been displayed in every religious discussion. You'd have to be following my topics and my responses in this forum to see what content I present.
All of these are how and why atheists develop "attitudes" in these kinds of conversations.
Maybe you should follow more discussion in this forum, or anywhere for that matter...it should be very easy to see where the attitude begins. Here, why don't we use this thread as an example of how atheists commonly bring presumptuous attitudes into God related topics.
Post #3
“The word 'God' is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses"
Post #5
"The word God is for me nothing but the expression and product of human weaknesses," he writes. "The Bible a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends."
It continues: "No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can [for me] change anything about this."
Post #7
"Religious people are less intelligent on average than atheists because faith is an instinct and clever people are better at rising above their instincts"
Post #10
"I would certainly concur that religion is a form of wishful thinking, one that is quite indisputably drilled into many children as a form of indoctrination."
Post #13
"Atheists think that theists are dumb and vice versa....What's new Einstein?"
Now lets pretend for a moment that God (as proposed as the origins of our existence) is not the product of wishful thinking, lack of intelligence, indoctrination, mental illness or whatever BS atheists presume and that God does exist. How do you think these presumptuous attitudes help in honest, thought provoking debate? how will this help between two people trying to solve an inquiry about this subject matter?
Now I could go into any topic here and show you exactly how this occurs but maybe you'll get the point in what I'm trying to say. If God is a reality, then these types of presumptions will only serve to limit the scope of what is possible to the one that doesn't know.
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@EtrnlVw
You really should read the research paper, Superior pattern processing is the essence of the evolved human brain by Mark P Mattson
In the paper, it states:
Interestingly, as described in the next section, there is fine line between the magical thinking of religious beliefs that have provided adaptive value for many civilizations and societies, and the delusions of psychoses that can place individuals and those they associate with in harm's way. This notion is illustrated in the following two quotes which exhibit the remarkable similarities between the delusions of individuals with schizophrenia and those described in religious doctrine. “Because you think what you're believing is true,” she replied. “I used to know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that—what other people would think was crazy—I thought was absolutely true, that I was privy to a special truth.” Elyn Saks, Professor and schizophrenia patient. “You have searched me, Lord, and you know me. You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar. You discern my going out and my lying down; you are familiar with all my ways.” Bible NIV, Psalm 139, verses 1-3.
Again, "This notion is illustrated in the following two quotes which exhibit the remarkable similarities between the delusions of individuals with schizophrenia and those described in religious doctrine."
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@EtrnlVw
I presented a number of presumptions and false attributions you made to me as a source of why I might develop an attitude and you just... blew by them.
So again, and in conclusion, this is why people develop and nurse attitudes. You clearly don't really care, or at least don't care to do anything about it, or at least deny that how you reply to others has any part to play.
If we're going to talk intellectual honesty, let's start there.
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@FLRW
Christian; My child is dying from smallpox, Praise the Lord!Intelligent Man: Let's find a cure for smallpox!Christian: My child is dying from Bubonic plague, Praise the Lord!Intelligent Man: Let's find a cure for the Bubonic plague!
Christians don't seek cures? That's your argument?
Athias, I pray you find Humanism.
I have no interest in "Humanism."
The point is that God might have started everything by creating 2 dimensional strings, but after that It had no affect on the Universeexcept to give people an opiate.
Can you substantiate this?
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@Athias
The point is that God might have started everything by creating 2 dimensional strings, but after that It had no affect on the Universeexcept to give people an opiate.
Yes, there are no supernatural occurrences in physics.
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@FLRW
Yes, there are no supernatural occurrences in physics.
Is God supernatural?
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@Athias
Post #3
“The word 'God' is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses"
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@FLRW
“The word 'God' is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses"
God is the manifestation of weaknesses? Which weaknesses are those?
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@drafterman
Look, I didn't set up this dialogue to further perpetuate hostility, rather the opposite. I'm sure some atheists have good reason to be irritated by theists (which I've already admitted) and vise versa. My main point is that I don't want to be inhibited by presumptions that don't apply to me in a discussion, and while you may believe there's good reason for those presumptions I do not. At least they are not associated with the prospect of whether or not God exists, and should not be used as a means of producing conclusions about that.
In forums like these I'm going to make the assumption that people are here to support their beliefs and they have thought about them using critical thinking, logic and forms of evidence that make sense to their beliefs. That's the best way to ensure that I'm conducive to productivity and intellectual honesty in considering alternative solutions.
If I'm going to come into a forum that's tailored to religious content and assume atheists are less intelligent, that they are the products of atheistic preachers through brainwashing and perhaps they lack critical thinking skills how do you think that is going to reflect on the integrity of my own views? I may have said those things before but honestly they were only in retaliation to show how stupid and worthless these types of assertions are. I'm not directing this solely to you, maybe that's where the disconnect is, this is a general observation and I have to say...if you are not aware of it I'm not sure you're paying much attention.
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@EtrnlVw
Look, I didn't set up this dialogue to further perpetuate hostility, rather the opposite. I'm sure some atheists have good reason to be irritated by theists (which I've already admitted) and vise versa. My main point is that I don't want to be inhibited by presumptions that don't apply to me in a discussion,
I get that, but yet when I point out the presumptions you applied to me that don't apply to me, you don't acknowledge it or seem to care. It's a two-way street, unless the only thing you care about is when it is done to you, and you don't care about when you do it to others.
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@Athias
Maybe this?
2 Corinthians 12:9 But He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest on me.
What does it mean that God's power is made perfect in weakness?
Our dependence is well expressed in that verse when Paul wrote about the thorn in his flesh. Paul pleaded with God three times to take it away but God told him that His power is made perfect in Paul's weakness. ... God simply wants us to surrender our inadequacy to him so that He can fill us with His strength.
Actually, I think Einstein was talking about the human weakness of low reasoning ability.
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@drafterman
Your boy FLRW here is making my point very clear. Unfortunately for him, he will never be able to look past other secularists presumptions, he's allowed someone to lead him to believe that believing in God is a product of human weakness, and so all he can do is parrot that baloney in many of the topics here. So where do we go from there? since I know it's not true, at least regarding my own conclusions there's no room for further dialogue. Not to mention, it's quite insulting.
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@drafterman
No I do care. I'm sorry if this topic does not apply to you.
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@EtrnlVw
Another false attribution. FLRW is not "my boy." I don't know this person. I am not in any way associated with this person. I am neither responsible nor knowledgeable of their actions or words or thoughts.
For the umpteenth time, this is why atheists get an attitude. Get it, yet?
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@drafterman
He's an atheist, I'm using him as an example of exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe you could chime in and tell him he's making atheists look like asses. Calling him your boy was just my attempt at humor.
If he won't listen to guys like me trying to correct him, maybe he will listen to you.
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@EtrnlVw
I'm more concerned about your behavior toward me. As you should be.
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@FLRW
Actually, I think Einstein was talking about the human weakness of low reasoning ability."
In other words, you think God is a manifestation of low reasoning ability?
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@Athias
GODS were a manifestation of a lack of information.....Which historically, might be regarded as a low ability to reason.
Old habits die hard.
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@Athias
Yes, do you think Noah lived to be 950 years old?
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@zedvictor4
@FLRW
@zedvictor:
GODS were a manifestation of a lack of information.....Which historically, might be regarded as a low ability to reason.
@FLRW:
Yes
With respect to which metric was their ability to reason "low"? Is this also a subject of time?
do you think Noah lived to be 950 years old?
In other words, do I believe in the events described in the Bible which are aberrant with the metrics adopted by scientific circles to inform and explain phenomena? Yes.
Why do atheists have an attitude? I'll restrain myself from laughing. Reread some stuff then ask that again.
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@Athias
The ability to reason was low because of a lack of information....Which in respect of history and events is relative to time, as is everything.....Though time isn't a metric per se, only the observance of events and the calculation of duration therein evolves a metric.
So 950 relative to a different metric, rather than 950 relative to today's standard yearly metric......Approximately 950 lunar cycles perhaps.....Which by todays standard metric would make Noah 73ish......Not bad going for the day, and certainly more reasonable.