Should we defund the police?

To take away funds from the police is to defund the police. Furthermore we need to solve the fundamental problems that a police force causes

I have worded this poorly but what I am saying is to not do anything with the funds, not defund it, but to simply leave planning to them so the funds that are meaningless can be recycled as funds that helps. 

To be clear - you want to strip the police department of all control of its funds?

No. I want the funds of police to be used for longer, wiser, not faster. The police can plan them and they would probably ignore me if they are racist jackasses, but I think it is to be considered that the funds should be used for longer and wiser.

I don't care who plans it(preferrably the police, if they know what they are doing), but as long as the funds are used for longer and only for those that are needed, then I am fulfilled.

As you can see I am talking as if the police doesn't always know what they are doing. The US police have just killed a bunch of black citizens over crimes that do not warrant death(or no crime at all), how good could they do?

Essentially, the problem comes with guns.

The US law says owning guns is legal, so if Police don't carry guns, the violent anarchist factions would shoot the souls out of them, which would be an existing problem. I think having stricter gun control would possibly reduce the harm the police would do indirectly, both on the citizen and on the police, because nobody likes a bullet hell going through them.

Okay, A problem is guns, but it is not the only problem - that would be ignoring all of the other representations of sexism and racism that the police forces uphold.... are you saying we should just tell the police force to use their budgets better?.... how would that solve anything, do you think they would actually listen? Even if you were somehow to get that incredibly vague law passed as policy, the police department has been one of the most corruptable departments in America for centuries. 

Should police receive more training hours, yes

Should the police be defunded, no

Would more training be sufficient to fix the many flaws with the police department? 

robo cop

Ok...But you have to maintain funding whilst changing the policing system..... Someone as got to keep their eye on the ball.

Here in the U.K. the Ethos of the  Police Force has changed radically over the last 20 years.....So much so that some might argue that the Police are now far to liberal.

I know that the U.S. is a completely different ball game with with a lot of decentralised power, and influence at State level. But ultimately you have to be reliant on the common sense and goodwill of the American people to now start and push for change.

Hopefully Trump and more so the spectre of ultra right wing conservatism, was a lesson learned.

74 million in last presidential election learned nothing of any signifcance to benifit humanity. 

Human  stupidity  is partially why historically, it has been a dictator type that has forced  some portion of humanity into a unified whole.

That will never be a permanent solution.  Humans will have to be educated to see why our existence is most likley via a unified whole of common agreement, to what ever percentage of vote we can agree on.

Computer modeling can give us many scenarios of the way forward.  Synergy of AI and humans is Swarm Intelligence that is the best option forward, unfortunately we have or may have too many stupid humans and that means, it is most likely we will have a dictator type who once again will attempt to unify a greater portion of humanity.

China is attempting to do its economic growth via its economic tentacles connecting Asia, Middle-east, Africa Europe. India etc.

USA is doomed to become isolated nation that will be allowed to not prosper and fall into civil unrest. Ahh but USA, like Pakistan, China, France, israel and soon Iran, hydrogen bombs.   My prognostications say these will all culminate to the end-of-humanity in and around the year 2232 and that is about 211 years from 2021.

Defund the police? How are we going to defund human stupidity?

Yep...I'm apt to agree with a lot of that.

Though I would suggest, that perhaps the purpose of organic intelligence is  preordained, and a necessary phase of an evolutionary, universal sequence.

And perhaps also, to be superseded by a more logical and less fragile Alternative Intelligence, less prone to stupidity.

As long as the information gets out there, it will eventually matter very little, what happens to life on Earth.

As I see it, the GOD principle has only one current objective.....And that is not, to be worshipped by stupid humans....But to be perpetuated by clever humans.

 

Hello, I was very happy with our short exchange, however I was disappointed with my reliance on conjecture and complete and total lack of information on the issue of police abolition. As a result, I took some time to do a little reading on the issue.

Put simply, police abolition would probably need to be tested on a small scale with decent success before I could support it nationally.

1944 Denmark underwent the dismantling of the Danish police force by the Nazis, 4 years after the cowardly Nazi attack in 1940. This event was dubbed ‘7 months without police.’ Jorgen Trolle, the head of the Copenhagen state prosecutor's office recorded the outcomes of the event. He wrote of the unmistakable increase in crime, though this crime was more potent in certain types of crime. To start, there were merely 10 robberies throughout the entirety of 1939 in Copenhagen. However, this rose about 10 a month (120 a year) in 1943. This is an undeniable increase, but it is nothing compared to the remarkable increase to 100 per month following the destruction of the Copenhagen police.

This tenfold increase in Copenhagen was seen in burglary and larceny as well. Despite this, crimes where the perpetrator could be detected without the police like fraud and embezzlement there was no notable increase. 

My source for this (which I will link in your PMs) states that the Danish experience was ‘imperfect and of short duration,’ however the author argues that ‘a modern industrial society can hardly be kept going without police and penal courts.’

A 2019 study looked into the impact of implementing a police force for the first time on crime across English counties. In other words, it looks at crime before and after a police system, the study ultimately concludes that there was a notable crime decrease following the implementation of police so long as the police force was ‘sufficiently large.’ Counties that only established a small police force did not see much change. More specifically, the implementation of sufficiently large police forces decreased rural crime by 19% and decreased London robberies by 40-46%. These decreasing effects persisted for violent and property crime. In contrast, there was no notable decrease in homicides following the creation of sufficiently large police forces. However, it is important to note that  ‘sufficiently large’ was defined as 1 officer per 1500 citizens, but this is very low by today's standards. For instance, America has 3.9-4.5 per 1500 citizens, England today has 3.2, and Germany has 4.5. So, it could be argued that we have jumped the gun on police forces, making them too big and suffering for it.

I will link you my sources in your PMs at your request.

I think you mean God as Universe.  A.I. does not exist on its own.  Swarm intelligence is combination of AI { less complex than humans } ,and more complex humans, steer-ability.

We have not evidence for mind/intellect accessing creatures anywhere in Universe ergo 'Rare Earth' concept.  This 'Rare Earth" concept is not on humanities mind and the first white, motown rock group LINK  "Rare Earth' i still touring has of 2021.

Still Universe is a large, finite set of possiblities.   In 60's, 70's it humanities future looked bleak to many.  To those in the know, it only looks bleaker these days.

Party like its 1999 Prince LINK is one good option, irrespective of what ever else we do.

Historically much asian philosphical religous base is about remaining harmony. Remaing in balance. If China is the path for unification of humanity, then I say 211 years of leeway to play with.  There Silk Road is due to be completed in 40 years, ---now thats long term planning for the future---  and that will be 100 years since chinas cultural revolution .

So take 40 off 211 years  and that is about 160 years after year 2041.   There a few wild cards in the deck;

1} 10 or more nations with hydrogen bombs,

2} pressures casused by erratic climate changes,

3} potential new technologies,

4} unknowns that have potential for major global societal disruptions. ex  volcanoe explosion larger than sine humans recorded history,5} ?

I have counter sources, specifically that there is a correlation between a decrease in crime and a decrease in police officer per 1000 citizens - so I'm not sure if thats exactly valid. Furthermore, "defunding" is not the same as abolishing, at least not all at once, and it would certainly not be without its replacement. 

(reduced role means that they're defunded)

I said, not necessarily, and not all at once - eventually I don't think there should be any police force - or at least nothing that resembles the current police force.

Yes - correct - as well as using some of that (in lots of cases) millions of extra dolllars to help improve what actually has been demosntrated to decrease crime: equal oppurtunity to education, and equity in neighborhoods and house holds. 

I will close on these thoughts then.

1- Increased police presence (generally) does not lead to a meaningful negative or positive impact on crime. There are studies I know of that swing both ways on the issue, but whatever relationship exists must be rather weak.

2- Britain appeared to be better off following the introduction of a police force and Copenhagen appeared to be worse off without a police force. However, it could be true that these same benefits could be found with other programs. Additionally, the police forces implemented in Britain were much smaller than existing police forces.

I'm surprised I haven't received more pushback here.

no.

Do you have reasons why?

do you have any reasons why we should?

Have you read the thread.... at all?

No, but stop increasing their funds every year and enough with the military style weapons. 

So we should.... decrease their funding?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Not sure. Defund is a difficult word, because it depends on whether you mean "stop funding altogether" (which probably isn't a good idea) or whether you mean ("decrease funding" which Is probably fine). 

I have an concluded that there is zero reason to defund the police