How hypocritical 99% of society is

Author: TheUnderdog

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3RU7AL
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@Fruit_Inspector
Morality is a personal impulse.
Your continual refusal to answer a simple question forces me to assume an answer. Based on the quoted statement, bestiality is only wrong if a person believes it is wrong. In other words, you believe that bestiality is a justifiable act depending on the individual's personal preferences.
I hope you don't feel like I "forced" you to do anything.

obvious moral atrocity is only wrong if a group of persons believes it is wrong. In other words, it is technically and tautologically true that obvious moral atrocity does not need to be "justified" to anyone depending on the individual's proximate relationship to and their membership in a group of persons and the specific preferences and moral impulses of that specific group of persons.
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@3RU7AL
I don't see that milking cows makes them suffer much.
I disagree.
Well, I'm just talking about what I see. 


I watched the cows getting milked and they didn't seem to be doing anything that would indicate they were suffering.
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@dfss9788
I watched the cows getting milked and they didn't seem to be doing anything that would indicate they were suffering.
Ok.

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@3RU7AL
Nothing in that video indicates that milking cows directly causes suffering (i.e. that bovine suffering is an unavoidable incidental).
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@3RU7AL
What makes you, a bunch of flesh and bones with a brain any more entitled to be treated with 'moral rights' than a gorilla or even a frog?
Great question, do you have an answer ?
In practise, I do, it comes down to pragmatism and that we are a selfish species.

In theory and truth, it's the inverse, we have no rights at all it's just bullshit we invent. Instead of 'rights' I wish we discussed 'optimal treatment'. Both wings of politics pull around the term 'inherent rights' way too much and it's just nonsense. Nobody has inherently got the right to anything, we grant it to one another based on it being seen as optimal for each of our wellbeings to do so. The gorilla has less negotiating power at this level of pragmatism, that is ultimately why.
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@RationalMadman
Nobody has inherently got the right to anything, we grant it to one another based on it being seen as optimal for each of our wellbeings to do so.
Well stated.
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@thett3
You don’t need gastronomical gratification, people do need to eat (plants).
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@Fruit_Inspector
if you believe it is immoral to harm animals then you must also believe it is immoral to slaughter them animals.
Athias
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@3RU7AL
You don’t need gastronomical gratification, people do need to eat (plants).
Surely there's more to eating meats than just gastronomical gratification; there are health benefits to eating meat, but I suppose that's contingent on which meat we're examining. One can survive as a vegetarian or vegan, but just as with meats, there are risks in exclusivity.
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@3RU7AL
if you believe it is immoral to harm animals then you must also believe it is immoral to slaughter them animals.
Well it's a good thing that I don't consider harming animals immoral in and of itself.
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@Athias
You don’t need gastronomical gratification, people do need to eat (plants).
Surely there's more to eating meats than just gastronomical gratification; there are health benefits to eating meat, but I suppose that's contingent on which meat we're examining. One can survive as a vegetarian or vegan, but just as with meats, there are risks in exclusivity.
How much and what type of meat is required for a human to maintain health ?

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@Fruit_Inspector
if you believe it is immoral to harm animals then you must also believe it is immoral to slaughter them animals.
Well it's a good thing that I don't consider harming animals immoral in and of itself.
Under what specific criteria do you believe it is immoral to harm an animal ?
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@3RU7AL
Under what specific criteria do you believe it is immoral to harm an animal ?
As I said previously, it is difficult to place black and white categories on the immorality of animal abuse. We must handle situations as they arise.

However, bestiality is a black and white moral category. It's a wicked degrading act.
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@Fruit_Inspector
Under what specific criteria do you believe it is immoral to harm an animal ?
As I said previously, it is difficult to place black and white categories on the immorality of animal abuse. We must handle situations as they arise.

However, bestiality is a black and white moral category. It's a wicked degrading act.
Of course.

I'm just curious if that "black & white" status is based on some coherent-moral-principle (CoMoPr) or just more of a "gut instinct" ?
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@3RU7AL
I'm just curious if that "black & white" status is based on some coherent-moral-principle (CoMoPr) or just more of a "gut instinct" ?
  • ‘Cursed is he who lies with any animal.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’ (Deuteronomy 27:21)

"Lies" is a euphemism for sexual relations. No gut instinct is necessary to consider bestiality a black and white issue.
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@3RU7AL
How much and what type of meat is required for a human to maintain health ?
I'm not suggesting eating meat is required. But there's more to eating meat than, as you put it, gastronomical gratification. For example, there are substantial health benefits in eating salmon (meat) and health risks in eating chips (plant-based) [e.g. "junk food" vegetarians.] And one could argue that even plant-based foods can serve the purpose of gastronomical gratification.

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@Athias
And one could argue that even plant-based foods can serve the purpose of gastronomical gratification.
Sure, I never suggested ALL plants are healthy.

I'm merely trying to point out that nobody is shocking potatoes with cattle prods in order to get them to move from one cage to another.
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@Fruit_Inspector
  • ‘Cursed is he who lies with any animal.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’ (Deuteronomy 27:21)

  • ‘Cursed is the one who treats his father or his mother with contempt.’ (Deuteronomy 27:16)

It's nice to know that the admonishment against bestiality is condemned with the exact same gravity as parental contempt.
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@3RU7AL
It's nice to know that the admonishment against bestiality is condemned with the exact same gravity as parental contempt.
That depends on how you understand the term "cursed." The point is that bestiality is clearly condemned. But it doesn't take a biblical scholar to see the depravity involved in humans having sex with animals.
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@Fruit_Inspector
It's nice to know that the admonishment against bestiality is condemned with the exact same gravity as parental contempt.
That depends on how you understand the term "cursed." The point is that bestiality is clearly condemned. But it doesn't take a biblical scholar to see the depravity involved in humans having sex with animals.
There's a pretty long list of admonishments with the exact same phrasing.

How can you tell which one's are "black & white" and which ones are "gentle suggestions" ?
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@3RU7AL
Consistent principles of textual interpretation.
Athias
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@3RU7AL
I'm merely trying to point out that nobody is shocking potatoes with cattle prods in order to get them to move from one cage to another.
Does it matter whether one marks up the tree trunk before throwing it into the chipper?

If this is reflecting a stance which suggests (non-human) animals should be protected from slaughter, especially when said slaughter is done in service for human consumption, when plant-based alternatives are available, I can show deference to that stance so long as the reasoning is consistent.
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@Fruit_Inspector
Consistent principles of textual interpretation.
I'm just curious if the "consistent-principles-of-textual-interpretation" (CPOTI) status is based on some coherent-moral-principle (CoMoPr) or just more of a "gut instinct" ?

Can you summarize the core "consistent-principles-of-textual-interpretation" (CPOTI) ?
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@Athias
I can show deference to that stance so long as the reasoning is consistent.
It's a purely conditional statement.

(IFF) causing pain and or discomfort to animals is "morally wrong" (THEN) slaughtering animals must also be at least equally "morally wrong"

(IFF) causing pain and or discomfort to animals is "morally neutral" (THEN) slaughtering animals must also be at least equally "morally neutral"

(IFF) bestiality is prohibited because of deuteronomy 27 (THEN) parental contempt must also be equally prohibited because of deuteronomy 27
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@3RU7AL
The fact that we are having a dialogue shows me you understand at least the most basic principles of textual interpretation. Do I really need to explain things such as definitions, grammar, and authorial intent for you to understand what I am referring to?
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@3RU7AL
It's a purely conditional statement.

(IFF) causing pain and or discomfort to animals is "morally wrong" (THEN) slaughtering animals must also be at least equally "morally wrong"

(IFF) causing pain and or discomfort to animals is "morally neutral" (THEN) slaughtering animals must also be at least equally "morally neutral"

(IFF) bestiality is prohibited because of deuteronomy 27 (THEN) parental contempt must also be at equally prohibited because of deuteronomy 27
Well stated. I agree. It would be inconsistent to suggest for example harming animals is morally wrong, while also endorsing their slaughter for human consumption.
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@Fruit_Inspector
The fact that we are having a dialogue shows me you understand at least the most basic principles of textual interpretation. Do I really need to explain things such as definitions, grammar, and authorial intent for you to understand what I am referring to?
(IFF) bestiality is prohibited because of deuteronomy 27 (THEN) parental contempt must also be equally prohibited because of deuteronomy 27

What specific aspect of "consistent-principles-of-textual-interpretation" (CPOTI) makes you suspect the two should NOT be equally prohibited ?
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@3RU7AL
If they are both considered morally evil, then what point are you trying to make?
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@Fruit_Inspector
If they are both considered morally evil, then what point are you trying to make?
They should both carry equal penalties under the law.

For example, video of children speaking ill of their own parents (or even parents in general) should be censored in the same manner and with the same urgency as bestiality.
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@3RU7AL
They should both carry equal penalties under the law.

For example, video of children speaking ill of their own parents (or even parents in general) should be censored in the same manner and with the same urgency as bestiality.
If you have read the book of Leviticus, you would know what a ridiculous statement that is - if you are seeking to apply consistent principles of textual interpretation of course.