Callout thread: Novice_II and debates for free wins.

Author: RationalMadman
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#31
Shila
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@whiteflame
Not sure how so much of this turned into a discussion of my debate style, but people are welcome to their opinions of it. I know I have my flaws and, especially on DDO, I had opponents who were very good at exploiting them. And I agree with Oromagi that my arguments are generally pretty boring. I don't tend to focus on presentation, more on substance, and that's always been a problem for me when it comes to live debates where many of my opponents are effective at both. Less of a problem online, but still a pronounced one.
I started following your debates. No need to apologize.
#32
oromagi
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@Ehyeh
My actual argument was not plagiarised, from the encyclopedia.
You wrote (without any citiation):

"Universals can be said to be a class of mind-independent entities, usually contrasted with individuals (or so-called “particulars”), postulated to ground and explain relations of qualitative identity and resemblance among individuals. Individuals are said to be similar in virtue of sharing universals. An apple and a ruby are both red, for example, and their common redness results from sharing a universal. If they are both red at the same time, the universal, red, must be in two places at once. This makes universals quite different from individuals; and it makes them controversial."

The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy begins its article on UNIVERSALS thus:

"Universals are a class of mind-independent entities, usually contrasted with individuals (or so-called “particulars”), postulated to ground and explain relations of qualitative identity and resemblance among individuals. Individuals are said to be similar in virtue of sharing universals. An apple and a ruby are both red, for example, and their common redness results from sharing a universal. If they are both red at the same time, the universal, red, must be in two places at once. This makes universals quite different from individuals; and it makes them controversial."

#33
Ehyeh
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@oromagi
Yeah, that was the heavy hitting argument wasn't it. Its literally a description talking about what a universal is, not an argument that was plagiarised. I also got it from my description in another debate, i always assume most things are copy and pasted in such sections regardless if they're cited or not.
#34
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@Ehyeh
All you've been saying is that yes, I've only had 10 hard debates on this site, but its not as bad as it seems! You're saying what im saying but making it look better by naming out the 10 debaters in the last 6 years or so.
Three and half years with a two year hiatus between debates 99 and 100- so one and half years of active debating on this site.

I'm saying you are drawing false conclusions from superficial analysis, just as you tried to correct how many top debaters I've sparred with.  There's plenty of junk debates of necessity but I think you give far too little consideration to a lot of hard engagements with talented and tenacious debaters.  I don't think you've been on this website long enough to know how smart and challenging debaters like Athias or Fauxlaw or Jeff_Goldblum or Mharman or PressF  or twenty others can be.  I've won the longest and shortest debates on this site.  I think I've engaged on the widest range of subjects by a significant margin- shit I know absolutely nothing about artificial intelligence, plane engines, boxing, etc.   I'm very proud of  winning many difficult engagements that you ignorantly blow off as foregone conclusion. 

Take that recent "abortion is immoral" debate that just ended.  Vici taunted me like you did until I accepted a debate but I'd gone to bed before I realized that he made the debate argument time 2 hours and had submitted his canned debate right after acceptance.  I had less than hour to wake up and write an argument good enough to make him forfeit the rest of the debate.  You look at that superficially and say, "Oh Oro beat some guy on his first day on the site who didn't even  bother with his second round" but in fact, that was a very difficult test that I'm proud to have won, even if novices' don't appreciate the degree of difficulty.

I guess that's what I'm saying- I'll match the degree of difficulty in those debates against any other debater here and care not a fig for your uninformed opinion regarding that degree of difficulty.
#35
Shila
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@Ehyeh
--> @oromagi
Yeah, that was the heavy hitting argument wasn't it. Its literally a description talking about what a universal is, not an argument that was plagiarised. I also got it from my description in another debate, i always assume most things are copy and pasted in such sections regardless if they're cited or not.
You won 3 out of 19 debates. Oromagi won 109 out of 111 debates.
You should pick your opponents better, Instead you let them embarrass you every time.

#36
Barney
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@RationalMadman
@Imabench
Two obvious things:
  1. The two sets of debates in question do not yield an apples to apples comparison.
  2. It's been years... Lead mods have switched out multiple times since then... The level of moderator intervention in general on this site has also waxed and waned... Let it go.

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#37
RationalMadman
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@Barney
Wtf does this have to do with imabench?

Nvm, I got it.
#38
Ramshutu
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@Barney
  1. The two sets of debates in question do not yield an apples to apples comparison.
If I recall, it was like 9 spam debates from a type 1 alt; that we all know would get instantly banned; meaning the debate was guarantee win. Not really the same as mall - who is more like cross than anything else.
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#39
RationalMadman
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Ramshutu, your pride is putting you to shame here. Even Novice must be laughing at it.

#40
Best.Korea
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To me, it seems a bit weird. Mall has over 20 active debates right now, 11 active debates with Novice. Also, debates like "you pick the topic" are auto loss debates as soon as you see what topics are actually being picked there. One topic picked by Novice was "USA should attack Canada right now" with Mall being placed as pro and having the entire burden of proof on him. One must wonder whats the point of such debates...
#41
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@RationalMadman
What makes us different?

There are a lot of aspects to building a great website, and providing all the necessary features is but one of them. That is why we made it our mission to go far beyond that and create something truly exceptional.

Moderation
To meet the highest standards of content quality, a team of community-approved moderators works day and night to make sure that intellectual discussions stay intellectual

Source: front page of this website

#42
Bones
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@RationalMadman
I didn't reply but I've thought about what you've said. I think noobsniping isn't necessarily exclusively not conducive to the ones own personal image, but it also isn't too nice for the "noobs". Like, think about the younger audience here who have just gotten into critical thinking and debating - they will hardly enjoy debating if they are being constantly mauled by veterans. 
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#43
RationalMadman
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@Bones
I'm sure they'd prefer their debates accepted by other FFers  for sure. Definitely. (sarcasm)

Until this website has a 'good vs good bad vs bad' culture, I will continue to noobsnipe.

I even experiment how little effort I can get away with, making it thrilling for me.
#44
Bones
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@RationalMadman
This isn't a black and white situation - there is obviously a wide spectrum of debaters in terms of their ability here, not just the top and the FFers. 
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#45
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@Bones
You are saying we are to assume all new users are the FFer or terrible type, out of some obligation to deprive them of a genuine challenge.
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#46
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@David
@Barney
@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
@MisterChris
The way i see it, you have 2 options Barney, abuse mod privileges to tweak the reasoning via mod-editing or drop the battle and go 'fuck I was an absolute idiot in that justification for banning you and how I reasoned in your protest threads.'

I give you a chance to save face, drop the sword and make a better topic to debate. Don't use characters being too large as an excuse. Our showdown should be high-character so both can fight back extravagently to what the other brings.

Of course, there's option 3, run away like David and be a coward. Is that the type of man you are?
#47
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The way i see it, you have 2 options Barney, abuse mod privileges to tweak the reasoning via mod-editing or drop the battle and go 'fuck I was an absolute idiot in that justification for banning you and how I reasoned in your protest threads.'

I give you a chance to save face, drop the sword and make a better topic to debate. Don't use characters being too large as an excuse. Our showdown should be high-character so both can fight back extravagently to what the other brings.

Of course, there's option 3, run away like David and be a coward. Is that the type of man you are?
Barney must be LITERALLY SHAKING at this terrifying callout.

Scary stuff.

#48
Shila
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@Avery
The way i see it, you have 2 options Barney, abuse mod privileges to tweak the reasoning via mod-editing or drop the battle and go 'fuck I was an absolute idiot in that justification for banning you and how I reasoned in your protest threads.'

I give you a chance to save face, drop the sword and make a better topic to debate. Don't use characters being too large as an excuse. Our showdown should be high-character so both can fight back extravagently to what the other brings.

Of course, there's option 3, run away like David and be a coward. Is that the type of man you are?
Barney must be LITERALLY SHAKING at this terrifying callout.

Scary stuff
A little shaking from you in the right places could lighten the situation.
#49
Avery
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@Shila
A little shaking from you in the right places could lighten the situation.
Then I rather it stays as dark as modern Europe.
#50
Shila
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@Avery
--> @Shila
A little shaking from you in the right places could lighten the situation.
Then I rather it stays as dark as modern Europe.
Twerking in the dark won’t help Europe either.

#51
Avery
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@Shila
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A little shaking from you in the right places could lighten the situation.
Then I rather it stays as dark as modern Europe.
Twerking in the dark won’t help Europe either.
Yeah but seeing you in the dark is the only way to stomach you.
#52
Shila
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@Greyparrot
--> @Shila
--> @Shila
A little shaking from you in the right places could lighten the situation.
Then I rather it stays as dark as modern Europe.
Twerking in the dark won’t help Europe either.
Yeah but seeing you in the dark is the only way to stomach you.
But you won’t be recognized in the dark. You are a  parrot,  remember?

#53
Greyparrot
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@Shila
You are welcome!
#54
Shila
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@Greyparrot
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You are welcome!
You sound more like a sick parrot repeating yourself.

#55
Greyparrot
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@Shila
You are welcome!
#56
Shila
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@Greyparrot
--> @Shila
You are welcome!
Would you like some parrot soup?

#57
Greyparrot
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@Shila
You are welcome!
#58
Lair77
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Novice is almost certainly creating alt accounts to farm wins.  And the mod team doesn't even try to investigate into this?
#59
Lair77
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Why tf am I actually accepting competitive challenges against real opponents if I could just cheat and/or troll and get 93% wr...
#60
whiteflame
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@Lair77
We actually do investigate potential instances of multiaccounting. If Novice was doing it, we would have already intervened.