3RU7AL's avatar

3RU7AL

A member since

3
4
9

Total posts: 14,582

Posted in:
F20M TH3 R1V3R T0 TH3 S3A
-->
@MarkWebberFan2
Well, if you check the Christian Debates in Renaissance France, the free press had had to fight against the incredibly well-funded christian church. And, the debates were basically modern amusement parks since no serious theological critique was publicly debated. But, they had conceptions that differed greatly from the bible. I'm confident that's different from Islam, whose serious scholars have trumped almost every modern, reformist thought. Sure, you can group Abu Mansor against Ibn Taymiyyah, but that's like arguing the difference between a spiral and a conventional staircase.

please correct me if i am mistaken here

but it sounds like

you're suggesting it's ok to kill muslims because they believe things you disagree with
Created:
1
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
at some point you can rename those "external forces" to "internal forces"
I do not agree.

Without intrinsic causes you cannot exist.

Without "what you are made of" and "what you are " you do not exist.

you seem to be suggesting that the "you" that is "you" is either

uncaused

or

self-caused
Created:
0
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
your biology is caused by "external forces"
No it is not. It is the material cause which makes up the matter of the person. That is something intrinsic to the person. Without it, he has no proper existance.
are you

or are you not

the product

of a

sperm

and

an

egg

?
Created:
0
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
and it's not free from anything
Never said it was.

ok, so why use the word "free"

what is the distinction you are trying to make by using the word ?
Created:
0
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
and you support this hypothesis

with an "appeal to ignorance"

basically

"we don't know exactly what it is and exactly how it functions, therefore SPIRIT"

Care to site where this "appeal to ignorance" is?

Because I certainly never said "We dont know exactly what it is and exactly how it works, therefore spirit"

Do you like throwing words in peoples mouths?

you haven't made a sound case for "SPIRIT"

the fact that you have made no case is itself an "appeal to ignorance"



i am willing to accept "SPIRIT" as a hypothetical

i believe we have already agreed that "SPIRIT" has finite parameters and or functions and has a capacity to learn from experience and or accumulate data

which renders it functionally moot
Created:
0
Posted in:
Is gravity a hoax?
-->
@Sidewalker
"Gravity" is only a theory and it isa theory that is obviously flawed, we have mathematical formulas that work, butthey are descriptive rather than explanatory, to this day scientists admit thatthe so-called force of gravity cannot be explained. Our prevailing theory ofgravity is Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity, and it can’t bemathematically reconciled with Quantum Theory; it is clearly a theory incrisis.

A rival theory, “Intelligent Falling” makesmore sense, the simple fact is, things do not fall because of a mysterious andunexplained gravitational force, they fall because a higher intelligence ispushing them down. Atheist Gravitationists have been pushing the gravity agendafar too long, it is time we accept the theory of Intelligent Falling.

Please understand,  I’m not saying that Gravityshould not be taught in the science classroom, only that our students shouldalso be taught the theory of Intelligent Falling so they can make an informeddecision for themselves.
well stated
Created:
1
Posted in:
What is a chair?
-->
@Best.Korea
Its mostly a nonsense rule, but I guess its fun when some boy violates it and grows his hair long.
like jesus, who also wears a dress
Created:
1
Posted in:
Only anarchy is the true freedom!
-->
@Best.Korea
Created:
2
Posted in:
㊙️ STEEL-MAN FACTORY
-->
@Greyparrot
Created:
1
Posted in:
㊙️ STEEL-MAN FACTORY
-->
@Greyparrot
And obviously, no sane person can explain WHY we would have to pre-emptively attack Russia with our military.
maybe trump or RFK can de-escalate

and maybe they'll get assassinated as soon as they try
Created:
1
Posted in:
What is a chair?
-->
@TheUnderdog
i'm not sure what the "problem" is

why would anyone care about this ?
Created:
2
Posted in:
What is a chair?
-->
@TheUnderdog
Just make the bathrooms gender neutral.  That solves it.  At a place I worked at, there were cisgender dudes that went into the women's restrooms and nobody cared.  If there was a kid in the bathroom, then most of the time it would be locked.  If not, then the adults respect their space.
great idea

but in that case

why does anyone need to know what you look like

naked
Created:
2
Posted in:
㊙️ STEEL-MAN FACTORY
-->
@Greyparrot
so the steelman is impossible? And we can safely disregard every deep state actor that says Russia is an "existential threat" as they won't get the US government to immediately stop an existential threat...(which you would if it was actually true, even animals fight to the bitter end)

ok, your first proposal was for a full-scale military invasion of russia

this is impossible without triggering a full-scale nuclear war

your second proposal was trying to conjure an argument supporting the claim that putin and or russia is some "existential threat" (undefined)

it doesn't matter how big a threat putin and or russia might be

the greatest possible threat is global thermonuclear war


now if you want to propose perhaps we infiltrate russia and assassinate all their political leaders and sabotage their electrical grid

that certainly sounds like fun

but i'm not sure it would work to anyone's advantage

and still might trigger global thermonuclear war
Created:
1
Posted in:
㊙️ STEEL-MAN FACTORY
-->
@Greyparrot
Saying "Putin or Russia is an existential threat" is making this argument.
i'm not sure this counts as "an argument"

it looks more like sheer hyperbole

also known as

"bald assertion"
Created:
1
Posted in:
㊙️ STEEL-MAN FACTORY
-->
@Greyparrot
Saying "Putin or Russia is an existential threat" is making this argument. I would just like a logical person to steelman it.
the "existential threat" of russia (whatever that means) would have to be greater than the prospect of global thermonuclear war

and that seems impossible

all conceivable threats pale in comparison to global thermonuclear war
Created:
1
Posted in:
What is a chair?
-->
@TheUnderdog
The right has the chromosome standard for gender and this is majoritarian.
testing for chromosomes every time someone walks into a public bathroom is impossible

it is important to maintain a constant awareness of and vigilant respect of our epistemological limits
Created:
1
Posted in:
㊙️ STEEL-MAN FACTORY
-->
@Greyparrot
Can you make a steel-man for the argument we should invade Russia with our entire military using nukes if necessary?
ok

i'm going to have to talk this out

any serious invasion of russia proper is likely to trigger a nuclear response

any serious preparation to invade russia proper is likely to trigger a nuclear response

so the argument would seem to lie in justification for a first-strike nuclear attack on russia proper

which leads directly to a cost-benefit analysis of global thermonuclear war

not a lot of detectable upside


Russia, which inherited the Soviet Union's nuclear weapons, has the world's biggest store of nuclear warheads.
Putin controls about 5,580 nuclear warheads, according to the Federation of American Scientists, opens new tab (FAS).

Of those about 1,200 are retired but largely intact and around 4,380 are stockpiled for use by long-range strategic launchers and shorter-range tactical nuclear forces, according to the FAS.

Of the stockpiled warheads, 1,710 strategic warheads are deployed: about 870 on land-based ballistic missiles, about 640 on submarine-launched ballistic missiles, and possibly 200 at heavy bomber bases, FAS said.

Such numbers mean that Moscow could destroy the world many times over. [[LINK]]
Created:
2
Posted in:
㊙️ STEEL-MAN FACTORY
-->
@Greyparrot
present your best arguments
Created:
2
Posted in:
What is a chair?
-->
@TheUnderdog
If your argument is based on if they pass or not, then fine.
that's already the standard for everything

to pretend otherwise is simply delusional
Created:
2
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
Internal causes maintain being, in order to maintain the things actions on external causes.
your existence is caused by "external forces"

your biology is caused by "external forces"

your experience is of "external forces"

you are wholly comprised of "external forces"

sure

at some point you can rename those "external forces" to "internal forces"

but every component is part of a continuous chain of cause-and-effect

that started before you were born and will continue after you die
Created:
2
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
I am being very specific in my use of "free"
and it's not free from anything
Created:
2
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
I am suggesting the intellect and will are a spirit.

and when I say spirit, I mean a non-physical entity that acts as the principle of the life particuler to humans.
and you support this hypothesis

with an "appeal to ignorance"

basically

"we don't know exactly what it is and exactly how it functions, therefore SPIRIT"
Created:
1
Posted in:
㊙️ THE STRONGEST ARGUMENT FOR ATHEISM (TSAFA)
"there is no god" doesn't seem to contain any implicit ethical code - - in the same way deism, agnosticism, and "soft atheism" don't seem to contain any implicit ethical code

unless you can support a specific ethical framework, the existence of "intelligent designer" is moot
Created:
1
Posted in:
What's the strongest argument for atheism?
"there is no god" doesn't seem to contain any implicit ethical code - - in the same way deism, agnosticism, and "soft atheism" don't seem to contain any implicit ethical code

unless you can support a specific ethical framework, the existence of "intelligent designer" is moot
Created:
0
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
It has nothing to do with creating itself, but rather maintaining itself.
the body can only "maintain" by interacting with EXTERNAL phenomena
Created:
1
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
I SAID THERE ARE DIFFERENT SENSES TO THE WORD "FREE", NOT DIFFERENT MEANINGS TO THE WORD "CHOICE!"
you are using the term "free" in conjunction with the word "choice"

why are you doing this ?
Created:
1
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
The computers random function has not consciousness. It acts randomly.

Not like us. We have consciousness of our descision.
computers do not "act randomly"

they may be "unpredictable" at times

but that's not the same as "random"
Created:
2
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
Why can they not be understood, as in something you reasoned to?

In fact, If do not understand that they are options, you do not understand that they are possible, then you do not know there are options. That is absurd.
saying that i understand something exists in my imagination

is not the same as saying i understand the future

Created:
2
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
is your intellect not constrained by the limitations of your brain ?
In ipso, it is not. This means by itself it is not restrained by the brain.

It is restrained by the brain as far as what we call its "ad objectivo" meaning its object, what the brain produces, it uses.

As regards what it does it adds to the brain. What we call understanding.

ok, are you suggesting that MIND = SPIRIT ?
Created:
2
Posted in:
What is a chair?
-->
@TheUnderdog
You are making the “if they pass” argument.

have about a hundred randomly selected individuals look at a photograph of the "chair candidate" in question
same for the chair question
Created:
2
Posted in:
What is a chair?
-->
@TheUnderdog
I can find males by chromosomes and gender identity that most people would say are females.
The preparation required for karyotyping depends on the method your doctor will use to take a sample of your blood cells for testing. Samples can be taken in various ways, including:

  • a blood draw
  • a bone marrow biopsy, which involves taking a sample of the spongy tissue inside certain bones
  • an amniocentesis, which involves taking a sample of amniotic fluid from the uterus
Complications can sometimes result from these testing methods, but they’re rare. There’s a slight risk of bleeding and infection from having blood drawn or having your bone marrow biopsied. Amniocentesis carries a very minimal risk of miscarriage.


do you really want to do this every time someone walks into a public bathroom ?
Created:
1
Posted in:
I don't get the problem with Bidens Age
-->
@Moozer325
No, Biden needs to move more left on those issues. I get how weird that sounds coming from the other end of the political spectrum, but yeah, he’s too moderate for me.
so, you're in favor of fewer bombs for gaza and more immigration ?
Created:
1
Posted in:
I don't get the problem with Bidens Age
-->
@Moozer325
Mostly Gaza and Immigration

so you want more bombs dropped on gaza and more immigration ?
Created:
1
Posted in:
I don't get the problem with Bidens Age
-->
@Moozer325
Biden has done a good-ish job as president, and all of my main issues with him is that he is too moderate,

what would you like biden to be "less moderate" on ?
Created:
1
Posted in:
I don't get the problem with Bidens Age
-->
@Moozer325
Build a steelman for biden.
the best possible case for the average american to cast their vote for joe biden

is to look at his record of accomplishments

not promises, because we all know that candidate promises mean absolutely nothing

(1) "the american rescue plan" - injected money into the economy

(2) "infrastructure investment and jobs act" - injected money into the economy

(3) "uyghur forced labor prevention act" - prevents some goods produced with slave labor from entering the united states

(5) biden directed the labor department to require all businesses with 100 or more employees to ensure their workers are either vaccinated or tested once a week

(6) biden halted funding for the border wall

(7) biden reversed the muslim travel ban

(IFF) you believe these are pro-toto good government policies (THEN) you should cast your vote for joe biden


Created:
1
Posted in:
What is a chair?
-->
@TheUnderdog
What do you mean when you say, "Appear"?

have about a hundred randomly selected individuals look at a photograph of the person in question

fully clothed

and if fifty one of them vote "maybe a woman"

that's close enough
Created:
1
Posted in:
I don't get the problem with Bidens Age
-->
@TheUnderdog
How would RFK be a bigot?  I can understand the conspiracy theory part.

what is the conspiracy theory you're thinking of ?
Created:
1
Posted in:
What is a chair?
-->
@TheUnderdog
So if you look like a woman, then you are a woman?
sure

and some women look like men

and some men look like women


i'm not exactly sure why the government needs to know what we all look like naked anyway
Created:
1
Posted in:
What is a chair?
-->
@TheUnderdog
That can be subjective, especially among 8 year old boys with long hair.
eight year old boys might look like eight year old girls

but neither one appears capable of gestating humans
Created:
1
Posted in:
I don't get the problem with Bidens Age
-->
@FLRW
Divine action through quantum biology leads to unsavoury implications for theodicy. If God’s action in the quantum domain is not episodic, and instead God acts through quantum processes to actualise biological events like DNA mutations, then responsibility for diseases which come from such mutations must also lie with God. Cancer, for example, is caused by mutations in the genes that control cell growth. If responsibility for the quantum processes that cause genetic mutations lies with God, then by Robert Russell’s own account of bottom-up causality God is also responsible for the diseases themselves and the physical and psychological suffering they cause. To be consistent, the claim that moral responsibility is carried up the causal chain must apply to both praise and blame. If God is considered ultimately responsible for the higher-level goods which emerge moving up the causal chain, such as speciation, then mutatis mutandis he is also responsible for cancers and other similarly caused diseases. Cancer is one of the primary causes of death in humans and brings with it great pain and suffering; the claim that God is responsible jars with the idea that God is omnibenevolent and is a significant problem for Russell’s thesis.
well stated
Created:
1
Posted in:
What is a chair?
-->
@TheUnderdog
People want to change that definition to include transwomen with dicks.  We need to go back to the drawing board.

from a strictly engineering perspective, a human that appears capable of gestating humans
Created:
1
Posted in:
What is a chair?
-->
@TheUnderdog
from a strictly engineering perspective, a human that appears capable of gestating humans
Created:
2
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
Your biology and experiances are not external causes.

Nor are they comprised of them in ipso.

is your biology an "internal cause" ?

did you somehow

create yourself ?
Created:
1
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
And if there is no difference between "choose" and "choose freely" then why are you saying we dont choose freely when we choose?!?!?!?!?!??!
you tell me what the difference is

because you're the one insisting that there is a difference
Created:
1
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
My conscious choice is not a "roll-of-the-dice"
that's what i just said
Created:
1
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
computer programs are definitely "goal seeking"

and computer programs certainly "make a choice"

Do they make a choice the same way we do?

Nope!

what

is

the

difference ?
Created:
1
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
we can only imagine "possible effects"
Repitition of your point without proving it, especially if you just repeat it to act against an argument is a fallacy.
you have failed to make a compelling case for any alternative

"possible effects" cannot be observed empirically - they are not concrete

"possible effects" are by definition NOT "logically-necessary"

THEREFORE

"possible effects" can only "exist" in your imagination
Created:
1
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
Intellect and will is not.
now we're getting somewhere

is your intellect not constrained by the limitations of your brain ?
Created:
1
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
The will is of the internal cause, namely the formal one. It can act independant of external causes.

"internal causes" are fully comprised of biology + experience ("external causes")
Created:
1
Posted in:
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
-->
@MAV99
There are different senses to the word "free" It does not necessarily mean "free from"

what in god's name is the difference between "freely choose"

and

"choose"
Created:
1