3RU7AL's avatar

3RU7AL

A member since

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Total posts: 14,582

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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
So a zygote is a human being.

Preterm death of the human conceptus (zygote) is common. A consistent biphasic pattern in the rate of loss from biochemical pregnancy detection to term suggests that most wastage occurs prior to clinical recognition. After simple adjustments for varying methods, existing data show that at least 73% of natural single conceptions have no real chance of surviving 6 weeks of gestation.




i guess it's time for you to ramp up your global murder investigation force
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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
Every day in 2020, almost 800 women died from preventable causes related to pregnancy and childbirth.
This is a global statistic, not a U.S. statistic.  In the US, I read somewhere that out of 4 million births, 800 of them result in death a year.  This is .02% chance of death on average.

do you think abortion should only be a crime in the united states

or do you think it should be a crime everywhere ?

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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
Robbing someone because of your tobacco addiction is needed to satisfy your bodily autonomy to smoke if you can’t afford tobacco.  This doesn’t mean theft for tobacco should be legalized.

who are you arguing with here ?

nobody thinks bodily autonomy means you can rob force or coerce another citizen

how does this relate to abortion ?
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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
This is only true if they aren’t harming others to a significant extent.
a blob of cells is not a human
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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
I believe it’s plausible an uninsured  pregnant woman has a less than 1% chance of dying without an abortion.

  • Every day in 2020, almost 800 women died from preventable causes related to pregnancy and childbirth.
  • A maternal death occurred almost every two minutes in 2020.

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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
but you can’t rob someone else because of

robbing someone has nothing to do with smoking

i feel like you're leaving something out that you think connects the two
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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
No because it violates the LUSHOOTY ethos because you are significantly harming the taxpayer to get universal healthcare.
ok

then without available healthcare

your 1% chance of significant harm (and or death) to the mother and or child

seems plausible

so, ostensibly you believe abortion should be legal for women without healthcare
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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
So change the law.  Or at least advocate for changing the law.

the point here isn't "what the law says"

the point here is

"the law" is itself set by the sovereign of the physical territory

and each individual human

has natural sovereignty

over everything that happens inside their own body

self-sovereign
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Do parents own their children?
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@Best.Korea
Its really just an illusion of control.

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Do parents own their children?
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@Best.Korea
and a state can deport anyone it wishes based on the whims of the king
When it comes to abortion, I am not really a fan of abortion, but woman's body does belong to a woman.

bingo
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Do parents own their children?
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@Best.Korea
The only restriction on freedom is when a person does something to violate the body of another.

so no fences to keep kids from running into traffic ?

no temper tantrums when you tell them they must go to bed or brush their teeth or eat their vegetables ?
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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
But abortion should be banned unless there is a 1% chance or higher the mother dies without one.
Historically, the chance of dying from pregnancy was significantly higher than 1%. Modern medical advancements have reduced this risk in developed countries to well below 1%.

so i guess you're also in favor of universal health-care for pregnant women ?
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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
I'm also anti ICE, so the idea of it being legal to murder/deport undocumented immigrants is an idea I find repulsive.

does this view reflect some coherent moral or legal theory perhaps ?
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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
Well, that's a stupid rule.  Qualified immunity should be repealed and ICE should be abolished.

it illustrates the SCOPE OF THE LAW

everything is based on geographic JURISDICTION

and DISPUTE RESOLUTION BETWEEN CITIZENS

some countries grant unregistered non-citizens a certain legal status

but this is purely at their own discretion and can be changed at any time and for any reason
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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
The penalty for abortion should be community service (which factors in bodily autonomy; otherwise the penalty would be death).
like the "castle doctrine" perhaps ?

The "castle doctrine" is a legal principle that allows individuals use force, including deadly force, to defend against an intruder in their home without the duty to retreat.
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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
So if I murder an undocumented immigrant, then should it be legal?
In 2020, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Hernandez v. Mesa that the family of a Mexican teenager, who was shot and killed by a.S. Border Patrol across the U.S.-Mexico border, could not sue the agent for damages in U.S. courts.
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Do parents own their children?
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@Best.Korea
There is no point at which you own children, not even while they are in the womb. They are separate beings with their own goals.
self-sovereignty makes your body equivalent to a sovereign state

and a state can deport anyone it wishes based on the whims of the king 
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Do parents own their children?
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@Best.Korea
No, you dont own children, you cant circumcise them or vaccinate them against their will. You also cannot tell them what to do.

At best case for you, you can engage in free trade with them by offering housing and food and other stuff in exchange for them obeying some of your rules.

At no point you may actually take away their freedom.

this sounds great

but there are some very practical restrictions on "freedom"
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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
OP got 4 likes; it makes sense to a lot of people.
or perhaps they simply thought it was an interesting topic
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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
this is first and foremost about privacy
I don't understand how privacy applies.  If I rape my girlfriend in a private area, it doesn't matter if it was a private area; the law should still go after me because I harmed someone else to a significant extent.  The same would be true for abortion (although I don't agree with the death penalty or imprisonment for abortion; the penalty should be community service).

The right to privacy is for victimless things only.

the function of the law is dispute resolution between CITIZENS

in your example, the person who believes they were HARMED will petition the state to resolve their dispute between CITIZENS

what happens inside your own body

is beyond the scope of state authority
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definition of "fascism"
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@prefix
N.B. There are many types and degrees of "socialism ". No one definition can be taken as complete..
ok, "state ownership" is "totalitarianism"

the "state ownership" in service of "socialism" is hypothetically to facilitate "social ownership" or "community ownership"

obviously this goal is often neglected once "state ownership" is implemented

and you end up with simple "totalitarianism"

both hitler and mussolini privatized state functions

granting lucrative contracts to "loyal corporations"

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What pro lifers believe on abortion
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@TheUnderdog
it is impossible to monitor pregnancy (zygote citizenship)

without the most invasive surveillance state imaginable

this is first and foremost about privacy
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Morality of the Matrix
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@WyIted
Flrw, it's off topic so just PM me if you want to discuss that further.  Also I am willing to give you my phone number so you can call me and discuss how I am wrong as well
get a room already !
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Free Palestine!!!!
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@zedvictor4
China gets things done reasonably successfully.
temu and tiktok and shein seem to be "winning at capitalism"
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I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
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@WyIted
Bro it's not that complicated. Just pray to the Christian God and ask him to guide you to knowledge of his existence. 

talking donkeys for everyone !!!!!
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Only anarchy is the true freedom!
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@zedvictor4
Anarchy will not work , because human nature dictates that leaders and subordinates will inevitably emerge from the chaos.
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Morality of the Matrix
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@Owen_T
I recently just watched the matrix, and asides a lot of logic gaps, one thing really bothered me. Why was the matrix actually a bad thing? For those of you who don't know the matrix is a shared simulation just like earth, but it's fake.  Is there any reason you can think of that the movie actually has a point that living in a simulation would be a bad thing? 
i had the exact same thought when i watched the pilot episode of the original star trek television show "the cage"

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34 Felony Counts Guilty
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@ebuc
The jury is decider of truth, and judge is decider of the law.
the legal system is perfection incarnate
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Free Palestine!!!!
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@Best.Korea
PRIMAL ETHICS

(1) PROTECT YOURSELF
(2) PROTECT YOUR FAMILY
(3) PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY
Is that similar to non-aggression principle?

Since you would be only acting to protect those 3 against those who attack them, thus those 3 can be followed by everyone in society without a contradiction.

sometimes a first-strike can be defensive

primal ethics generally favors cooperation - but each individual has to decide if their own interests are best served by kindness or cruelty
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Free Palestine!!!!
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@Best.Korea
PRIMAL ETHICS

(1) PROTECT YOURSELF
(2) PROTECT YOUR FAMILY
(3) PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
There is a difference between the thing itself and its relation to other things.

we seem to agree that "libertarian free-will" (freedom from cause-and-effect) is impossible
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34 Felony Counts Guilty
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@Double_R
a novel and untested legal theory.
with extremely convenient timing
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34 Felony Counts Guilty
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@thett3
I’m just saying if you asked people “which is more corrupt, a politician using campaign funds from donors to pay off his mistress or using his own money” people would say that using campaign funds from donors was more corrupt. But apparently that’s what he was supposed to do according to the state of New York, which has the final say on what is or isn’t a federal elections violation
exactly

and by the way it was reported in "the news"

i thought the charge was that he paid off stormy with campaign money

that's how misleading the stories are
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34 Felony Counts Guilty
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@Greyparrot
The Trial by Franz Kafka is a surreal novel about Josef K., a bank official who is unexpectedly arrested on his 30th birthday by mysterious agents. The nature of his crime is never revealed. Though not detained, Josef must navigate a bewildering and oppressive judicial system. His initial hearing is chaotic, held in a decrepit building, with officials providing no clarity. Seeking to understand and defend himself, Josef consults several figures, including a lawyer named Huld, his enigmatic nurse Leni, and a court painter, Titorelli. Each encounter only deepens the sense of absurdity and hopelessness. The legal process becomes increasingly invasive and incomprehensible. Eventually, Josef is taken by two warders to a quarry, where he is executed, ending his life with a sense of helpless resignation. The novel explores themes of corrupt bureaucracy, manufactured guilt, and the impossibility of justice in an indifferent world.
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㊙️ STEEL-MAN FACTORY
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@MarkWebberFan2
Why should everyone, even dhimmies and kafirs, abide by Allah's rule?
your strongest case seems to be "argumentum ad baculum"
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34 Felony Counts Guilty
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@thett3
Maybe the FEC commissioner is wrong, but that’s not for the state of New York to decide. 
bingo
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34 Felony Counts Guilty
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@Sidewalker
I wonder if they are now allowed to say what the underlying crime actually was.
That would be underlying crimes, 34 to be exact.
"falsifying campaign finance records" is a misdemeanor

so that's actually just 34 line items for a single crime, basically one crime cut up into 34 pieces

in order for the misdemeanor to be elevated to a felony

the misdemeanor must be "in-the-service-of a felony"

and apparently they don't even have to specify exactly what that felony is
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34 Felony Counts Guilty
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@Casey_Risk
Wow, I was actually worried he might just end up getting off on most or all of the charges. I guess not! Considering how all the polls I've seen indicate that support for Trump drops significantly in the case that he is convincted of a crime, I'd say Biden's chances of winning this election have gone up significantly. 
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34 Felony Counts Guilty
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@Greyparrot
I wonder if they are now allowed to say what the underlying crime actually was.
i thought it was "defrauding voters"
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34 Felony Counts Guilty
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@Double_R
“…and the intent behind them were proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be in violation of the law”
how did they determine this ?

hypnosis ?

some new kind of brain scan ?
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34 Felony Counts Guilty
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@ebuc
How many MAGA/DADA { Dumb and Dumber } Cultist vote considerations of Trumpet will change  with these 34 felony counts?
first of all

they were not "campaign funds" and therefore could not violate "campaign finance regulations"

second of all

even if they were "campaign funds" falsifying records in the second degree is a misdemeanor

furthermore

34 felonies sounds impressive

until you realize it's just 34 ledger entries which is basically one violation cut up into 34 pieces

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㊙️ STEEL-MAN FACTORY
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@MarkWebberFan2
ok,

let's say we can agree that the primary function of a legal code is to improve social unity and to maintain a peaceful and functional society where the maximum number of citizens have adequate food, clothing, and shelter

ok,

is sharia law superior in any way to the available alternatives ?

probably not

so,

since sharia law is not obviously superior based on its function
it would have to be argued that sharia law will make allah happy and or result in the maximum number of souls elevated to jannah

and,

before you can do this
you would have to make a convincing case that allah is a real thing and that making it happy is a worthwhile endeavor

which is pretty tough when the whole thing hinges on faith
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
That does not mean that material and formal causes are extrinsic. Namely their existance is caused by something extrinsic. They themselves are intrinsic.
this appears to be a distinction without a difference
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
To be free effectually, which means free towards an effect that is possible from a single cause, simply means you need the intellect to know the possibilities and a will to effectuate one of them.
"intellect" is fully caused

and 

"will" is also fully caused

and

your ability to imagine "possibilities"

is fully caused
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
in order to be free causually, which means free from, you would essetially have to be God.
even a god cannot have "free-will"
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
The functions I described are of the Form of humans.
this statement means nothing
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
descriptive definitions are perfectly usable in an argument.
only if both parties agree on the definition
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
My efficient cause is my parents. They disposed the matter to receive existance. In this sense they caused me. That is external to me.
i'm with you on this point

But the intrinsic cause that maintains my being is the material cause (what we are made of) and the formal cause(which is the by what we are).
i don't see how your material cause is not caused by the efficient cause

i don't see how your formal cause is not caused by the efficient cause
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
You can be free towards something. Like if someone were to ask me at the dealership which car out of the six in front of me do I want. It is a freedom towards something. It is not a freedom from something.
the implication at the car dealership

is that you are not being influenced by the salesperson beyond the obvious limit to your six options

you are free from influence by the salesperson

furthermore

in order to make a truly free selection from among the six presented options

they must be roughly equivalent

perhaps not identical

but have the same number of "pros and cons"

i mean

if five of the six options were obviously dilapidated piles of junk

at that point

you are not really free to choose them

you are constrained by your motive for being there in the first place

presumably to get the best price for a functional vehicle that will not be embarrassing to drive
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
"a non-physical entity that acts as the principle of the life particuler to humans."
this is merely a description, not a sound case in support of "SPIRIT"

i believe we have already agreed that "SPIRIT" has finite parameters and or functions and has a capacity to learn from experience and or accumulate data
i believe we have already agreed that "SPIRIT" has finite parameters and or functions and has a capacity to learn from experience and or accumulate data
i believe we have already agreed that "SPIRIT" has finite parameters and or functions and has a capacity to learn from experience and or accumulate data

do we agree on this, or do you have something to add ?
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