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@WyIted
People will still vote strategically in RCV
sure, but MORE people will vote honestly
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@Double_R
It is, by definition, when the money was spent in order to conceal information from the voters.
can you please post a link to that definition ?
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@Double_R
Do you believe people who knowingly violate the law should be punished?
i'd actually take this two steps further
i believe every violation should be punished equally regardless of "intent" (all laws should be enforced 100% without bias or exception)
by increasing punishment for "intent"
you are basically criminalizing intelligence
and rewarding stupidity
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@prefix
To clarify I am trying to get input on "socialism as a system of governance".
socialism is a framework where the means of production, distribution, and exchange are owned by the community as a whole
it is a model of OWNERSHIP (like an employee-owned corporation)
it is not a "system of governance"
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@prefix
We are speaking here of state socialism.Also, employee-owned corporations are more an example of capitalism rather than socialism.
"state socialism" is almost always a lie
ostensibly the goal of "state socialism" is to facilitate public-ownership of "capital" (the means of production, factories, farms, laboratories)
if a state does not meet this goal of public-ownership, and instead becomes self-serving (filling the pockets of the powerful at the expense of the public)
then it doesn't matter if they call themselves "socialists" all day every day
at that point they are TOTALITARIAN OLIGARCHS
NOT SOCIALISTS
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@prefix
Kindly give an example of a socialist state which has not been subject to a central government.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
The goal of socialism is communism. The goal of communism is to have no government.
community working for the good of the community
or the state owns the means of production
which is obviously the OPPOSITE of the goal
and calling TOTALITARIANISM "socialism" is a lie
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@ebuc
....By using conventional weapons to respond to a nuclear attack, NATO would be able to demonstrate its resolve while retaining the potential to escalate
there is absolutely no way in hell that russia is just going to stand by and absorb a "full-scale conventional attack" by anyone
nukes will fly
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@Double_R
In the state trial, Trump is accused of falsifying his business records with an intent of aiding or concealing the commission of a crime.
how is paying cohen back
"concealing"
cohen's "excessive campaign contribution" ?
i mean, if trump pays for cohen's "excessive campaign contribution"
doesn't that make the payment a de facto trump to trump "campaign contribution" making it no longer "excessive" ?
basically erasing the original charge of "excessive campaign contribution" ?
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@prefix
health care for all
universal healthcare is NOT socialism (social-ownership-of-capital)
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@prefix
Socialism as practiced in its many forms has never existed without centralized state control.
Not necessarily. Socialism can involve decentralized forms like libertarian socialism or anarcho-socialism, which do not require centralized state control.
employee-owned corporations are another example of socialism (social-ownership-of-capital) that does not require state-ownership
the point being
TOTALITARIANISM is not synonymous with SOCIALISM
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@Double_R
the crime that michael cohen was convicted of
was "making an excessive campaign contribution" to stormy
the plea included "for the express purpose of influencing the outcome of an election"
which is obviously the goal of every campaign dollar spent
"for the express purpose of influencing the outcome of an election"
is not "defrauding voters"
and if it is somehow "defrauding voters" in this specific case
then why wasn't michael cohen charged and convicted of "defrauding voters" ?
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@Double_R
It means using large sums of money to conceal information from
"defrauding voters"
Convictions for "defrauding voters" typically involve criminal charges related to election fraud, such as submitting false voter registrations, tampering with ballots, or other actions intended to deceive or manipulate the electoral process. cases and outcomes vary by jurisdiction.
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@TheUnderdog
I think that's crazy. Murder is worse than lying; hands down.
try and imagine what it would be like to live in a world where nobody lies
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@Double_R
What do you think political funding means?
what do you think "defrauding voters" means ?
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@Double_R
What do you think transparency means?
the primary aim of "transparency" is
to identify sources of funding
to insure a candidate is not a proxy for a foreign or criminal power
in this trump case
the source of funding in question
was trump
everyone agrees on this
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@Double_R
Or do you think that someone who coordinates with and directs the primary actor in a crime is not by definition guilty of taking part in that crime?
accused of
not convicted
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@prefix
They were actually more in control of "crony industrialists" and therefore able to direct the power of the state toward their operations and goals.
"socialism" is "for the benefit of the people"
not
"centralized state control"
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Right, socialism is when the FBI
what is your personally preferred definition of "socialism" ?
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@Mall
i think it's important that you know
i just discovered you have a very dangerous disease
this disease is undetectable
but has the horrifying effect of causing eternal torture if you die with it
so don't die
also,
i can cure this disease for you
if you dedicate your life to me and do what i say
and i can guarantee you'll be very happy about this generous arrangement
after you die
i just discovered you have a very dangerous disease
this disease is undetectable
but has the horrifying effect of causing eternal torture if you die with it
so don't die
also,
i can cure this disease for you
if you dedicate your life to me and do what i say
and i can guarantee you'll be very happy about this generous arrangement
after you die
PROVE ME WRONG IF YOU DARE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@TheUnderdog
The average legal consequence for a murder conviction is typically a lengthy prison sentence, often ranging from 15 years to life imprisonment, and in jurisdictions, it can include the death penalty.
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@TheUnderdog
Well out of all of Trump's 34 convictions, please state why they are all wrong. If even one of them is correct, then Trump doesn't belong running for POTUS because felons should be banned from office.
lying about the purpose of a payment 34 times isn't exactly MURDER
although
i'd love to live in a world where lying is a crime equal to MURDER
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@Mall
clinging to unfalsifiable claims is not something to be proud of
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@TheUnderdog
I heard one of the charges was he stiffed his workers for one of his businesses. He also committed adultery with a porn star while his wife was pregnant with their kid. I heard he even committed the R word. He has 34 felonies. Maybe those are some of them.
nope
34 ledger entries that "should have" been marked as "campaign funds"
these are technically misdemeanors
but were "upgraded" to "felony"
because they were apparently intended to cover of the "crime" of "defrauding voters" (lying to voters)
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@TheUnderdog
guilty of what though
guilty of paying someone to keep quiet ?
even the prosecutor says that's not a crime
guilty of hiding information from voters ?
everyone running for office does that all the time
now, it would seem that using campaign contributions to pay someone to keep quiet might probably be a "misuse of funds"
but that's not what happened and apparently that would have been perfectly legal as well
the crime here is NOT using campaign contributions to pay someone to keep quiet
that's the conclusion here
trump SHOULD HAVE used campaign contributions to pay stormy
trump SHOULD HAVE used campaign contributions to pay stormy
this is what our legal system is telling us
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@thett3
Because individual X pled guilty to a crime in jurisdiction A, jurisdiction B can use a crime that individual Y was never charged with much less convicted of as a predicate for their own charge in a different jurisdiction. Their prosecutors can tell jurors as a statement of fact that individual Y was guilty of a crime in jurisdiction A even though he was never even charged with a crime there.
jurisdiction matters
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@Double_R
So even if we assume that Trump played no role in the commission of this crime (he did), he at the very least falsified his business records to conceal it. And you don't get to claim the crime wasn't adjudicated when the primary actor in this scheme served 3 years in prison as a result.
In court Tuesday, Cohen told the judge, under penalty of perjury, that he knew he was committing a crime by making the payments. He said he did so “at the direction” of Trump — identified as “Individual-1" in court papers — “for the principal purpose of influencing the election.”
ok
so to frame this
mafioso is caught red-handed and admits everything was premeditated and they knew everything was 100% illegal (as part of a plea deal)
mafioso is convicted but says "my boss made me do it"
the prosecutor neglects to file a charge against the boss
why ?
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@Double_R
The law. There is a reason we have rules governing campaign finances.that's like saying murder is ONLY a crime if you pay someone to murderNo, it's saying that there is a reason why we have campaign finance laws, so when you break them you will be held legally liable. Not that complicated.
the "reason" we have campaign finance laws
"to prevent corruption and ensure transparency in political funding"
these "reasons" don't apply to this case
this case hinges on the charge of "defrauding voters"
which boils down to
"lying to voters"
which has absolutely nothing to do with money
You're not arguing against prosecutors, the judge, or anyone else here. You're arguing that campaign finance laws shouldn't exist in the first place.
nope
i never suggested anything of the sort
Well you're entitled to that opinion, but that has little to nothing to do with any of the arguments I've made or the central point of this thread.
i'm ever so glad you think i'm entitled to some opinion you made up for me out of thin air
how generous of you
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@Best.Korea
the best thing you can do is spoil your kids
since the world is run by entitled pricks
maybe they can bully their way into a management position
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@Double_R
who cares how much money you use to deceive voters ?The law. There is a reason we have rules governing campaign finances.
that's like saying murder is ONLY a crime if you pay someone to murder
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@Greyparrot
Why are Americans OK with just throwing money away?
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@FLRW
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@Double_R
if [using large sums of money to] deceive voters [by engaging in a scheme to falsify the documents showing the nature and purpose of said payments] is a crimewe're going to need to build a lot of new prisonsFixed.
who cares how much money you use to deceive voters ?
nobody cares how much money you use to commit a murder
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@zedvictor4
A. Their either was or was not a creator GOD.
DEISM is functionally indistinguishable from ATHEISM
B. Everything, either is or is not purposeful.
the question is meaningless if we cannot clearly determine "the purpose"
C. Everything, either is or is not pure chance.
again, it doesn't matter unless we can know how it applies to us as individuals
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@WyIted
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@WyIted
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@FLRW
if deceiving voters is a crime
we're going to need to build a lot of new prisons
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@Best.Korea
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@Best.Korea
i wonder if people could agree that without identity
if the gaza israel roles were reversed
without changing any of the facts
would anyone think differently about the situation
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@Mall
clearly, children do not have the same rights as adults
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@ADreamOfLiberty
WillThe executive algorithm in a thinking machine/organ. That which transforms possibilities into priorities and priories into decisions.
nice
i'd call it
"goal seeking in service of desire"
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@TheUnderdog
does the catastrophic harm to the zygote outweigh the "harm" caused by a LESS THAN 1% increase in taxation ?It would if the increase in taxation was 1% due to UHC. The reality is UHC would cost more than a 1% increase in taxation. My estimation is about 50% increase. But having the taxpayer take care of the kid if the woman can’t afford it would be akin to the taxpayer funding the tobacco costs of someone who chose to smoke.
ok,
the suggestion was universal healthcare for pregnancy only
which would likely be below that 1% tax increase
HOWEVER,
universal healthcare for everything might increase taxes 50%
but right now i'm paying just as much for insurance as i am paying for rent
so, it seems reasonable to me that if we implemented universal healthcare, my TOTAL EXPENDITURE would be at least flat if not DECREASE
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@TheUnderdog
If it was a genuine accident,
right but it's going to take a lot of investigators to determine that one really big IF
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@MAV99
REAL-TRUE-FACTS (including objects) must be empirically verifiable and or logically-necessary (and emotionally meaningless) - - - everything else is functionally indistinguishable from OPINION (private experiential gnosis dreams emotions) - - - the first category is QUANTA and the second category is QUALIA
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@MAV99
This important aspect of course is definitions. Without definitions, a conversation can become pure semantics with each side babbling and misunderstanding each other.
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@Mall
Homosexuality does harm the population as abortion.
(1) how does homosexuality harm "the population" ?
(2) how does abortion harm "the population" ?
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@TheUnderdog
No because it violates the LUSHOOTY ethos because you are significantly harming the taxpayer to get universal healthcare.
does the catastrophic harm to the zygote outweigh the "harm" caused by a LESS THAN 1% increase in taxation ?
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@TheUnderdog
Well those are accidents; and accidents should not be tried as the same action intentionally. This is why manslaughter is tried differently than murder. I think fetal unintentional homicide should be legal, but fetal intentional homicide should be punished with community service.
US women are being jailed for having miscarriages
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@TheUnderdog
Well those are accidents; and accidents should not be tried as the same action intentionally. This is why manslaughter is tried differently than murder. I think fetal unintentional homicide should be legal, but fetal intentional homicide should be punished with community service.
(IFF) zygote = human citizen (THEN) death of zygote = either a murder or manslaughter conviction
if someone accidentally kills one of their children
they still get charged with a crime
you can't have a different standard
for zygotes
if you want to give them full human rights
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