3RU7AL's avatar

3RU7AL

A member since

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Total posts: 14,582

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Free Speech
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@dustryder
How about his messaging and promotion of the conspiracy theory that the election was stolen?
Is this a specific quote?
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Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,
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@oromagi
That is a conspiracy theory all by itself- you are alleging that "the News" is working together to prevent this story when the fact is that this story is all over "the news"
You're LEAPING TO CONCLUSIONS.

Both statements are factual.

I hadn't "heard a peep" about THE 57 SECOND CLIP IN QUESTION.

AND, I am genuinely surprised the upload wasn't insta-banned.
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Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,
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@Castin
Because they just have no motive to further advertise video evidence of their mismanagement.
I thought the entire function of a "free press" was to EXPOSE government incompetence.
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What I realized
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@Tarik
A FACT MUST BE EMPIRICALLY DEMONSTRABLE AND OR LOGICALLY-NECESSARY.
Where'd you get this definition?
Coherent analysis.
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Posted in:
Free Speech
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@dustryder
Do you not think incitement of civil unrest that contributed to tangible violent actions was a sensible point to ban him?
Please provide a specific quote.
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Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,
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@oromagi
Election Fraud 2020: Capitol ‘Siege’ | Red Flags Point to Orchestrated False Flag ‘Insurrection’

The article is over 4000 words and I did not write it.

And even if I did write it, what difference would that make to you?
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Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,
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@Castin
"As for disturbing videos we've all seen that seem to show some officers letting rioters behind barricades & taking selfies with them: I can assure you these videos are being thoroughly investigated & there will be consequences for any deviations from proper training & protocols." - Tim Ryan (Chairman of the Appropriations Committee over the Capitol Police)

That's pretty much all we've gotten so far, that I'm aware of. They know it looks fishy as hell. They've already confiscated texts and emails from all the Capitol police at the riot.
Excellent reporting.

I'm just wondering why it's not "front-page-news".

I'm just wondering why nobody ("official") is showing this 57 second long clip.
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What I realized
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@Tarik
BECAUSE IT IS TAUTOLOGICAL.
How do you know this? Anybody can call a false claim tautological, what do you think fallacies are?
A TAUTOLOGICAL STATEMENT IS A STATEMENT THAT IS TRUE BY DEFINITION.

FOR EXAMPLE,

A FACT MUST BE EMPIRICALLY DEMONSTRABLE AND OR LOGICALLY-NECESSARY.

EMPIRICAL DEMONSTRATION REQUIRES PHYSICAL SENSORS ATTACHED TO A HUMAN BRAIN.

LOGICAL-NECESSITY IS DETERMINED BY CAREFUL RATIONAL ANALYSIS OF AN IDEA'S COHERENCE.

RATIONAL ANALYSIS REQUIRES A HUMAN BRAIN.

THEREFORE, IT FOLLOWS, BY DEFINITION, THAT A FACT REQUIRES A HUMAN BRAIN.

THERE IS NO WAY TO MAKE A FACTUAL STATEMENT WITHOUT A HUMAN BRAIN.

THERE IS NO WAY TO VERIFY A FACTUAL STATEMENT WITHOUT A HUMAN BRAIN.
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What I realized
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@Dr.Franklin
a gift bag is an arbitary gift

ancestory is something that is handed own only to you and precious
Ancestry is purely accidental.
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@EtrnlVw
We're going to make the assumption that God is animate (living) correct?
We're going to make the assumption that "god" is comprised of a complex system of individual cells working in symbiotic unison with bacteria in order to maintain homeostasis?
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@EtrnlVw
Lets do something entirely different than what normally happens, lets see how quickly we can agree and move forward! we do that by using very simple and efficient reasoning and rapidly move ahead. So when I say something that makes sense and you can agree with it, let me know and then we take steps from there.
I ALWAYS SEEK COMMON-GROUND.

Playing word games will seriously annoy me, so its up to you here where progress goes. 
I love how you try to pretend that if I don't accept your implicit AXIOMS prima facie, then somehow it makes me "the bad guy".

I admire your intelligence and I believe we actually agree on a lot of underlying concepts.

That is why I'm even bothering with any of this.
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@EtrnlVw
I don't want this to become a game of semantics as many of your conversations become. Lets just try and be focused and rational here or I will become bored very quickly.
I only have two speeds.

ZERO AND ONEHUNDRED.

You are hereby absolved from any implicit social obligation to respond and or even acknowledge any of my responses.

This is a purely voluntary interaction.
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@EtrnlVw
I wouldn't label anything living as a thing,
Is an individual human blood cell, living in a petri dish, considered a "creature"?
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@EtrnlVw
if you're not willing to commit to being conscious are you not willing to say this Being is alive??
Please define (in quantifiable terms) the word, "conscious".
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@EtrnlVw
God is a conscious (living) Being,
Like a dog?

Is a dog a "conscious (living) Being"?
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@EtrnlVw
lets just say God is a person,
The word "person" is synonymous with "HUMAN".
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@EtrnlVw
We're going to make the assumption that God is animate (living) correct?
Why would we do this?
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Materialism Vs Theism
"the ability to learn or understand (reason)"
(IFF) your version of "god" is omniscient (THEN) they would have zero "ability to learn"
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@EtrnlVw
"the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment
(IFF) your version of "god" is omnipresent (THEN) they would have zero ability to "manipulate one's environment"

or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria"
Abstract thought is the exact opposite of QUANTIFIABLE ("objective" criteria).
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@SkepticalOne
...a reality beyond the natural world that cannot be detected or demonstrated...
But does happen to be logically-necessary.

The only "glitch" is that NOUMENON is technically "unknowable".
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@SkepticalOne
I don't know what a "super-reality" is supposed to be
By "super-reality", I mean something above and beyond the reality that can be observed and/or demonstrated. It's reality+.
The word you're searching for is NOUMENON.
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@EtrnlVw
"the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills."
(IFF) your version of "god" is omniscient (THEN) they would have zero "ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills"
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Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,
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@oromagi
We should therefore conclude that the reason you had not heard a single peep was because you haven't paid attention to much mainstream media on the subject.
I've been doggedly watching the "featured stories" and "top news" and "breaking news" clips.

I didn't happen to catch "morning joe" (which also doesn't show the clip in question).
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Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,
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@oromagi
I argued that "the news" was not covering up the story because I've have seen regular reporting of this story since the hour it happened. 
LINKS PLEASE.

The video very specifically suggests that the Scarborough is speaking metaphorically, as if their incompetence "opened the door".  the Scarborough does devote a good portion of the rant to complaining about how unprepared the police seemed to be.
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Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,
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@oromagi
THEY COULD HAVE EASILY SHOWN THE 57 SECOND LONG CLIP.

WHY NOT JUST SHOW THE CLIP.
I'm afraid you've missed the point entirely.

You offered a conspiracy theory that "the news" had covered up the story of Capitol Hill police allowing rioter passage unopposed.  
I'M JUST ASKING WHY NOBODY "OFFICIAL" IS SHOWING THE CLIP.

ANY "CONSPIRACY" IS IN YOUR OWN IMAGINATION.

I MADE NO SUCH CLAIM.
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Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,
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@Death23
There was an incident in Oregon where it was a republican lawmaker who opened the door and let the protesters in to the building. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/us/oregon-legislator-entry-protest-december-trnd/index.html
Nice link.
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Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,
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@oromagi
Why are you so certain that this video must have taken place at the opening moments of the storming in spite of the fact that the end of the video shows the building already filled with rioters.
It doesn't matter when this video was recorded.

Beginning, middle, or end, THE COPS WHO ARE TASKED WITH PROTECTING THE BUILDING DO NOT JUST LET PEOPLE WALK INTO THE BUILDING THEY ARE PROTECTING.

Did you notice the protestor dressed in black from head to toe with the yellow cube on their back and carrying zip-ties?

This particular protestor has been singled out by "the news" as a "particularly dangerous individual" and have featured "scary" photos of them.

Now we know how this "particularly dangerous individual" gained access to the Capital building.
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What I realized
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@Tarik
What I do know is that FACTS can only be statements which are implicit claims.
How do you know this?
BECAUSE IT IS TAUTOLOGICAL.

IT IS TRUE BY DEFINITION.
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Why is murder actually wrong.
Legally we waive prosecuting soldiers for conflict since they are rarely the instigators.
I guess you're right.

A "good soldier" is more like a puppet.
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What I realized
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@Tarik
There’s no when and where in regards to this fact but the shape of the earth was a fact before it was a concept or a statement for that matter.
How do you know this?
I don’t but you don’t know that it wasn’t either, which was your initial claim that humans had to approve facts.
What I do know is that FACTS can only be statements which are implicit claims.

I also know that statements which are implicit claims did not exist before humans.

Please challenge my axioms and or point out a specific logical error and or provide a counter-factual.
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@PGA2.0
Are you against changing the laws of your country to match Sharia Law?

Are you against Sharia Law because you believe the Quran is TRUE?

How can you object to something or be against something that isn't REAL?

Are you an A(Allah)ist?

Do you lack belief in Allah?
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@PGA2.0
A being is necessary for ought, and a necessary being for fixing that ought as a moral right. Or wrong. You are not that being. Why should I believe what you are selling? It does not exist.
The NOUMENON satisfies the requirement of logical-necessity.

The NOUMENON does not and cannot in any way inform our human concept of "morality".

Therefore, simply acknowledging the logical-necessity (of a prerequisite "thing") does not "solve" your "morality" "problem").
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@Amoranemix
If I were to claim the Flying Spaghetti Monsters is necessary for morality, it would not be your burden to disprove it, but mine to prove it. Stop avoiding to honour your burden of proof.
Well stated.
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@zedvictor4
So is atheism more reasonable that theism then?.......1157 posts and I'm none the wiser.
SKEPTICISM IS ALWAYS MORE REASONABLE THAN BLIND FAITH.
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Send Trumpet To Jail Now
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@Greyparrot
5 out of 5 for trusting Authority.
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Send Trumpet To Jail Now
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@ebuc
3r, your confused.  No where have I stated what your suggesting. stick to truth and facts and your make more rational, logical common sense.
Do you remember when you stated,

Jail Trumpet and his supporters NOW!
Do you consider it a CRIME to vote for TRUMP?
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What I realized
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@Tarik
There’s no when and where in regards to this fact but the shape of the earth was a fact before it was a concept or a statement for that matter.
How do you know this?
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What I realized
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@Dr.Franklin
It's like being "proud" of a free gift bag.
no it is not
Please explain the difference.
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What I realized
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@Tarik
Yes but facts aren’t limited as statements, simply stating something doesn’t make it fact.
I AGREE.

A statement of FACT is actually an implicit CLAIM.

(IFF) that CLAIM (statement of fact) is not "empirically demonstrable and or logically-necessary" (THEN) it is absolutely NOT a fact.
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What I realized
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@Tarik
FACT is a concept.
It can be but it’s not limited to.
Please explain exactly when and exactly where a FACT is NOT a concept.
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Free Speech
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@Wagyu
(IFF) you think the TRUMP twitter ban is GOOD (THEN) you are BRAINWASHED

It is twitters website, they can ban whoever they like. Ideally sure they would be consistent and apply some form of objectivity to it but I don't see an issue with sites banning people if they are not controlled by any government form. Obviously, I am assuming twitter is not some secret part of what the opposite of Trump is but ideally just ban both presidents or all presidents and have their PR be the only ones allowed to post. That is their prerogative. It is their website. Same with Facebook all these places it is their website, sure they are smarmy and lie but if a site were truly honest and said "Hey we don't like your kind" then so be it, move along. Sites like those should then die out.
If anything Trump can just go take care of his trash some other way, Twitter hopefully then does take a stance against more of the things they feel do not align and hopefully are at least clear and honest about that with the knowledge they will lose plenty of users.
Bit of a mishmash really, as in there can be precedent set by a centralized social site for actual transparency about what they like vs trying to please the majority or whatever.
Will be interesting to see the twitter side. I have no interest for the other side which is just a breaking point in a system so tense with , I want to say retardation, that really any breaking point is worth watching and seeing what burns.
if they are not controlled by any government form.
Why do you think they waited until AFTER the election to ban trump from twitter?

Wouldn't it make way more sense to ban him from twitter during the impeachment (for threatening witnesses)?

Wouldn't it make way more sense to ban him from twitter when he started re-tweeting "racist" comments and video clips?

Also, do you think twitter and facebook and google qualify as, "the public square" ("public sphere")?

What percentage of person to person (peer-to-peer) communication happens "in real life"? What percentage of person to person (peer-to-peer) communication happens "over the internet"?
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Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,
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@HistoryBuff
The videos of police just letting people through, taking selfies etc are disturbing. 
I agree.
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Send Trumpet To Jail Now
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@ebuc
Not everyone who disagrees with you is "an idiot".
Not everyone who disagrees with you should be "thrown in prison".
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What I realized
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@Tarik
Statements and concepts like "shape" and arbitrary names like "earth" do not exist without humans, they do not exist "independently of a human mind".
Facts is more than a statement or concept, it’s truth and the truth always exists.
How do you clearly distinguish between FACT and OPINION?

FACT is a concept.

A FACTUAL STATEMENT must be phrased and presented as a STATEMENT.

TRUTH = FACT
FACT = TRUTH
REAL = FACT
FACT = REAL
REAL = TRUTH
TRUTH = REAL

REAL = TRUE = FACT
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What I realized
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@Dr.Franklin
It's like being "proud" of a free gift bag.
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I never INTENDED to hurt anyone.
How do you QUANTIFY intentions?
This isn't a deposition. You got to get to the point.
Yes, you've convinced me that any legal or moral framework that relies on detecting INTENTIONS is functionally indistinguishable from witchcraft.

By your "consequentialist" view, nobody should ever be convicted of accidentally or unintentionally committing a crime.

Isn't that one of the KEY legal obstacles to convicting TRUMP of many of his CRIMES?

It's been argued that the Georgia phone call was NOT criminal if TRUMP sincerely believes that he really and truly WON.

This would magically transform the phone call from being an implicit demand for falsifying vote tallies into an honest and sincere plea for "THE TRUTH".

ALSO,

There was a case a few years ago where a police officer accidentally entered a neighbor's apartment, mistakenly thinking it was their own apartment and mistook their neighbor for an INTRUDER and shot them dead.

Their legal defense argued that it was not a crime because the officer sincerely believed their neighbor was an intruder.

Police are protected by a legal doctrine called "qualified immunity" which states that (IFF) the officer believed at the time that what they were doing was perfectly legal, (THEN) their case can be dismissed. [LINK]
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Send Trumpet To Jail Now
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@Death23
I didn't say intentions were the only thing that mattered.
What's more important than intention when determining the "morality" of an act or event in a consequentialist framework?
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Send Trumpet To Jail Now
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@ebuc
Not everyone who disagrees with you is "an idiot".
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Why is murder actually wrong.
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@zedvictor4
Now there's a can of selectively moral worms that's always open.
Well stated.
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Why is murder actually wrong.
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@sadolite
Are you familiar with the television show "DEXTER"?
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