3RU7AL's avatar

3RU7AL

A member since

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Total posts: 14,582

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Send Trumpet To Jail Now
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@HistoryBuff
the question is, WHY DID THE TRUPPIES STORM THE CASTLE?

the answer is, BECAUSE THEY LACK FAITH IN THE ELECTORAL SYSTEM.
the answer is because they believe there was widespread fraud and that the election was illegitimate. They believe that because trump and groups like fox and news max say it constantly even though it is all lies. 
You say tomayto, I say tomahto.

You're not doing a very good job of contradicting me.
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Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,
Alternative link to main story,

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Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,
More video showing police cooperation with DC protestors,

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Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,
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Send Trumpet To Jail Now
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@Death23
indicates that you are [EITHER] unable [OR UNWILLING] to articulate a cogent response to it.

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Send Trumpet To Jail Now
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@Death23
Oh noes!

What happens if we DO NOTHING?

What do you think that's going to do?

Create a public spectacle that will keep open and festering the wounds Trump has caused.

This man-baby is going to keep causing as much trouble as they possibly can.

JUST TO GET MORE ATTENTION.  THAT'S ALL THEY WANT.  THEY SIMPLY WANT TO WIN THE ATTENTION WAR.

Should we stop prosecuting drug-lord-king-pins because it might put too many families out of a job?

I'm not "prescribing" any specific "punishment".

I'm just saying, FIGURE OUT WHAT ACTUAL CRIMES HAVE BEEN COMMITTED AND APPLY THE EXACT SAME PUNISHMENT THAT YOU OR I WOULD GET FOR THAT EXACT SAME CRIME.
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What I realized
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@Tarik
Apes demonstrate (social) moral behavior.
Perhaps I should’ve been more clear, I was specifically speaking in regards to human beings.
Humans that are born without religious beliefs are still capable of moral acts.

Morality causes religion.

Religion does NOT cause morality.
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@Tarik
OBJECTS ARE EMPIRICALLY DEMONSTRABLE.
I’m not disputing what your saying I just want you to be more specific, what are empirically demonstrable things?
Can you see LOVE?

Can you smell LOVE?

Can you touch LOVE?

Can you taste LOVE?

Can you hear LOVE?

LOVE IS NOT AN OBJECT.

LOVE IS AN ABSTRACT CONCEPT.

Can you see MORALITY?

Can you smell MORALITY?

Can you touch MORALITY?

Can you taste MORALITY?

Can you hear MORALITY?

MORALITY IS NOT AN OBJECT.

MORALITY IS AN ABSTRACT CONCEPT.
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@EtrnlVw
because to claim a Reality that we originated from "unknowable" is rather stupid.
I see.

So, I'm guessing you KNOW "the unknowable"?

Are you neighbors perhaps?

Do you invite them over for a chat, perhaps?
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@EtrnlVw
If a Deist accepts or interprets our universe as a product of intelligence then the Deist fits into the only other one of two categories.
I consider myself a DEIST but I'm not convinced "intelligence" is a concept that applies to "the unknowable" "source".
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Send Trumpet To Jail Now
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@Death23
The costs and risk I mentioned were more than a mere inconvenience. Consider them and consider whether or not it's worth it.
I don't know how you personally choose to define JUSTICE.

And I don't know how you personally choose to define COSTS & RISKS.

All I'm trying to say is that if you like to claim "justice is blind" and "everyone is equal under the law" and all that jazz, you can't just CHANGE THE RULES when they seem INCONVENIENT.

DO YOU KNOW WHY NO BANK CEO'S WERE PROSECUTED FOR THEIR KNOWN CRIMES IN THE HOUSING BUBBLE CRISIS?

BECAUSE THE US ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID, "IT WOULD CAUSE TO MUCH DAMAGE TO THE ECONOMY".

THE ONLY FUNCTION OF THE LAW IS TO PROTECT THE RICH & POWERFUL.
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Send Trumpet To Jail Now
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@FLRW
Maybe Trump could be locked in a bunker with Melania?
What the heck did SHE DO??
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What I realized
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@Tarik
No I’m arguing that moral belief is religious belief.
This is false.

Moral belief predates religious belief.

Apes demonstrate (social) moral behavior.

Apes are not religious believers.
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@Tarik
And what are concrete and demonstrable things?
Can you see it?

Can you smell it?

Can you touch it?

Can you taste it?

Can you hear it?

OBJECTS ARE EMPIRICALLY DEMONSTRABLE.
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@PGA2.0
Sure, an ATHEIST might accept the concept of "Spinoza's god", for example.
He might have disavowed the concept of there being a VOLTRON, but he certainly knew there was such a concept. So, he has beliefs about such a VOLTRON. He even speaks of the angry Jewish VOLTRON, or the Christian incarnation, so he was aware of this VOLTRON; he had concepts of what such a VOLTRON is like, even though he grossly misrepresents VOLTRON.  And how well does his concept stand up to the scrutiny of a VOLTRON being impersonal? 

It's important to remember that just because someone knows what a VOLTRON is, that doesn't mean they necessarily think VOLTRON IS REAL.
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@PGA2.0
A person who knows enough to disbelieve in THE DEEP-STATE-CONSPIRACY or THE MYSTERIOUS FORCE ILLUMINATI substitutes that belief with another.

Are you an "ATHEIST" because you lack faith in THE DEEP-STATE-CONSPIRACY?

Are you an "ATHEIST" because you lack faith in THE MYSTERIOUS FORCE ILLUMINATI?

CAN YOU PROVE THAT THE DEEP-STATE-CONSPIRACY DOESN'T EXIST?

CAN YOU PROVE THAT THE MYSTERIOUS FORCE ILLUMINATI DOESN'T EXIST?
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@PGA2.0
A person who knows enough to disbelieve in NANABOZHO or BRAHMAN substitutes that belief with another.

Are you an ATHEIST because you lack faith in NANABOZHO?

Are you an ATHEIST because you lack faith in BRAHMAN?

CAN YOU PROVE THAT BRAHMAN DOESN'T EXIST?

CAN YOU PROVE THAT NANABOZHO DOESN'T EXIST?
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@PGA2.0
ATHEISM is NOT a belief.
Yes, it is. That is a claim.
No. ATHEISM is simply a proclamation that I am personally UNCONVINCED.

Being unconvinced of something is not a claim that the counter-proposal is necessarily "false".
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What I realized
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@Theweakeredge
The human brain is empirically demonstrable.

The human mind is merely apparent.
Hate to steal your line, but that was well stated
Thanks, take what you want when you want.

INTELLECTUAL =/= PROPERTY
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What I realized
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@Tarik
the existence of human beings is CONCRETE AND DEMONSTRABLE.
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Send Trumpet To Jail Now
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@Death23
I’m not convinced that justice is important enough to outweigh the costs and risks.
We certainly wouldn't want JUSTICE to be INCONVENIENT.
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Send Trumpet To Jail Now
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@HistoryBuff
this topic is about the insurrection at the capitol and whether trump should be punished for it. That relates to trump's fraud claims. It does not relate to whatever other crap you feel like brining up.
the question is, WHY DID THE TRUPPIES STORM THE CASTLE?

the answer is, BECAUSE THEY LACK FAITH IN THE ELECTORAL SYSTEM.
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Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,
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@Dr.Franklin
EVERY PROTESTOR IS AN UWITTING PUPPET.

BLM. MAGA. SJW. THEY'RE ALL THE SAME.
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What I realized
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@Dr.Franklin
ok sure, you should also be proud of where you came from
Why?

You had nothing to do with that.
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@Tarik
And 3RU7AL wasn't talking specifically about religion, they simply were using a well known turn of phrase to explain differences between people.
What’s the point of that? Unless I implied people are all the same which I didn’t.
You linked religious belief with moral belief.

I linked religious belief with birthplace (and birthtime).

For example, if you were born in ancient China, you probably wouldn't hear very much about "Jesus".
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@Dr.Franklin
yes because now its your turn to conti nue the great things
Try to "be proud" of the great things YOU actually accomplished YOURSELF.
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@ethang5
When it is defined as the opposite of "subjective", it can be objective.
Every thought and action a human being is capable of is FUNDAMENTALY SUBJECTIVE (SAMPLE BIASED).

NOTHING YOU CAN SAY OR DO IS "UNBIASED".
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How biased in the US Education System in History as a subject
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@Discipulus_Didicit
If the bombs were dropped as a demonstration of their capability, why were they not targeted on some uninhabited island off the Japanese coast or something?
Great question.

Perhaps they were a DEMONSTRATION of how many civilians the USA is willing to slaughter.

Sir, put down your weapon, or else this sleepy fishing village go bye-bye.
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Send Trumpet To Jail Now
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@Tradesecret
And if you cannot remember the protests and riots at that time, then your memory is intentionally selective. 
Yep.
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Send Trumpet To Jail Now
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@HistoryBuff
that isn't true. You said it was because of lack of faith. I responded specifically referring to the fraud claims trump was making. You then went on your tangent about unrelated stuff. 
AND I NEVER MENTIONED FRAUD CLAIMS.
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Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,
Protestors were INVITED into the Capital Building - - 57 seconds of uncut video,


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@fauxlaw
By rationally thinking that, given that conditions are not likely to cause a life-ending experience, the risk of smaller-scale injury may be exceeded by the thrill of accomplishment, even for selfish motivation. one may be motivated by something that appears irrational, but there is rational thinking in comparing risk/reward.
the thrill of accomplishment = E-MOTION

You do use "rational thinking" in order to SATISFY YOUR E-MOTION.

Your "rational thinking" is a SLAVE TO YOUR E-MOTION.

You only "figure stuff out" in order to FEEL GOOD.
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What I realized
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@Dr.Franklin
you dont take credit, you take pride
Are you proud of all the great things you didn't do?
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Socialism vs Capitalism is a stupid Dichotomy
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@Athias
HOLACRACY
First, wouldn't this necessitate that everyone who participates in this system to (willingly)  subscribe to some code or principles?
Yes.  Isn't this a marvelous feature?

Second, how is compensation determined in Holocracy? Is pay equally distributed? Is pay subject to referendums? If there are no "managers," with whom do workers negotiate?
It's simple, people bid for jobs.  The lowest qualified bid gets the job.

Third, how is this different from other theories of the firm where management is simply decentralized?
I'm not sure what SPECIFIC SYSTEMS you're trying to compare and contrast.
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@Athias
River water is a good example.

Do upstream farmers "own" the river?

If upstream farmers divert the flow of the river to irrigate their crops and thus deprive downstream farmers of adequate water for their crops, is it "stealing"?

If upstream factories dump chemical waste into the water making it dangerous to plants and animals downstream, is that "vandalism"?

Who is the "owner"?
What would be your proposed solution or mechanism which regulates the use of river water so no farmer in proximity will be deprived of adequate water?
Primarily I'd like people to UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM.

Putting a single organization (river-corp or river-authority) "in charge" of the river can often be WORSE than "nothing".

Doing "nothing" is obviously very bad.

AND policing water usage and dumping is ridiculously resource intensive.

What you'd hope would be that people would "respect the river" and "play nice" and "only take what they need" and "not be idiots".

But what we end up with is THE FREE-RIDER PROBLEM.

More specifically, if the cost of a resource is shared, then people who don't use that resource or under-use that resource are "penalized" and those who over-use that resource are "rewarded".

HOLACRACY SEEMS TO BE A "BETTER" FRAMEWORK FOR MANAGING SHARED RESOURCES.

I'm curious how you, personally, might approach this "problem".
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Socialism vs Capitalism is a stupid Dichotomy
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@Athias
of, relating to, or being in the service of the community or nation
So, DEFINITELY NOT "THE STATE".
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Socialism vs Capitalism is a stupid Dichotomy
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@Athias
The stakeholder doesn't have to be an individual. It can be a company, foundation, hedge funds, etc.
I agree.

However, there is usually some individual who wields outsized control.

Either a CEO or a Chairman, or a 51% stakeholder (Corporate Raider).

The point here is that the workers themselves do not get a vote.
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@Athias

Who does the State rent from?
No one.

Who does the State rent to?
Everyone else.
Doesn't this make the State de facto OWNER?
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What I realized
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@fauxlaw
Not if it is willed otherwise. Mind over not just matter, but feelings, as will. In fact, the response to any feeling is: "The secret is not minding." Thus, the ability of some to walk over burning coals.
You're forgetting to ask, WHY WOULD ANYONE "RATIONALLY" "CHOOSE" TO WALK OVER BURNING COALS?

Hmmmmm, perhaps for SOCIAL STATUS?

Or, perhaps to BUILD SELF-CONFIDENCE?

Or, perhaps just for the ADRENALINE RUSH?
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@SkepticalOne
It's important to clearly distinguish QUANTA from QUALIA.
I've never understood that terminology. 
FACTS must be empirically demonstrable and or logically-necessary QUANTIFIABLE (QUANTA) and emotionally meaningless.

OPINIONS must be personal, private, unfalsifiable, experiential, indistinguishable from GNOSIS, QUALITATIVE (QUALIA) and emotionally meaningful.

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ALL LIVES MATTER
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@zedvictor4
Certain people matter to certain people for certain reasons.
Well stated.

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Materialism Vs Theism
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@EtrnlVw
What exactly was it that he stated? I'm curious because it was completely irrelevant to my topic. 
I appreciate a good myth.
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@EtrnlVw
Here though, in this topic I would define God as Creator, as in the cause of our existence. 
So, "unknowable" would be perfectly acceptable to you?
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Antitheist AMA
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@ethang5
And "subjective" still does not mean "non-existent".
Are you familiar with the difference between an ABSTRACT noun and a CONCRETE noun?
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@Dr.Franklin
it means you have pride of your ancestors
Well, you didn't make them either, so I'm not sure how much "credit" you can claim.
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@fauxlaw
If a thought process is measurable, how abstract can it be? True, we have not yet developed the tech to measure what a person is thinking, but in very broad stroakes, but, according to MIT, that the person is actively thinking at all is measurable.
Brain activity is not an OBJECT.

Brain activity is a process.
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@fauxlaw
Do you segregate the concepts of emotion and reasoning? I disagree that we are exclusively emotional creatures.
Reason is a slave to e-motion.
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ALL LIVES MATTER
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@Dr.Franklin
What do you do when someone starts banging on your door in the middle of the night?

Have you ever considered that a gangster might yell "open up, police" just to get you to let them in?
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@FLRW
Yes, the Creator was Bumba.  According to the Boshongo people of central Africa, in the beginning, there was only darkness, water, and the great god Bumba. One day Bumba, in pain from a stomach ache, vomited up the sun. The sun dried up some of the water, leaving land. Still in pain, Bumba vomited up the moon, the stars, and then some animals. The leopard, the crocodile, the turtle, and finally, man.
Well stated.
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Materialism Vs Theism
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@EtrnlVw
Deist fits in to one out of the two propositions, either God created the universe or God did not. One is called Theism and the other materialism. 
Do you define "god" as "beyond our epistemological limits"?
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