Total posts: 14,582
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@SkepticalOne
There is no need to disprove that which has not been proven.
An unfalsifiable claim is not a valid claim.
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@ethang5
I don't think the mods ever knew how much the site needed him.
I'm pretty sure they did.
He wouldn't shut-up about it.
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@ethang5
@Athias
Athias – probably our most intelligent poster. Concise, polite, and genius level easiness.
Well stated.
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@ethang5
Tell that to the atheist congregation quoting them in support of atheist claims.
That's the entire point.
There is no uniformity of ATHEISTS.
The actions or ideas of any particular self-identified ATHEIST do not necessarily inform the actions or ideas of any OTHER particular ATHEIST.
There is not uniformity of belief because ATHEISTS do not share any particular belief.
They only share a particular LACK-of belief.
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@whiteflame
When I'm debating, I'm more of an ESTP, and when I'm focused on scientific research pursuits, I'm more of an ISTJ. I'm a very strong ST.
Excellent analysis.
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@Dr.Franklin
arent communists against it?
Nope.
The Russians and the Chinese both participate in market economies.
Their citizens privately own homes and automobiles.
They go to work at jobs they can quit, just like in the good old USA.
They use money and can even start their own businesses.
I mean, sure, they're a little more heavily regulated, but they're certainly not AGAINST "capitalism" wholesale.
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@Theweakeredge
Exactly, but they are framed as opposites, one of the reasons its not the most accurate in that way.
Who frames them as "opposites"?
Even just going by the letters, they're 75% identical.
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@ethang5
There is no ATHEIST tradition.Yet every atheist here will quote atheist comments of our founding fathers if you tell them that America's tradition is Christian.
Most of the "founding fathers" were self-identified DEISTS and did NOT call themselves ATHIESTS.
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@ethang5
There is no ATHEIST clergy.Sure there are. You guys quote them all the time. Is not your holy book "The God Delusion"?
I've never heard of it.
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@Theweakeredge
that you continously called me ENTP or something should only show that it's really not that accurate. I got INTP
I'm INTP but I become ENTP when I'm over-confident.
The two are only very slightly different.
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@Sum1hugme
Next to INTJ
INTJ is BATMAN.
INTP is DATA.
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@zedvictor4
Though it might be suggested that this is as good a test as any other....If not better.
The efficacy of the test can be verified by actually taking the test.
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@Sum1hugme
I got ENTP - A (debater)
You're the second best type.
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@MisterChris
I expected a lot of people to get that here. Although sounds like the test is baloney unfortunately
Are you kidding me?
The fact that this website is loaded with ENTP types seriously validates the test.
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@oromagi
Very low on Conscientiousnessimpulsive, disorganizedHigh on Agreeablenesstrusting, helpfulVery high on Neuroticismanxious, pessimisticVery high on Openness to Experienceimaginative, spontaneousVery low on Extraversionreserved, thoughtful
In other words, INTP.
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@Athias
PUBLIC = NOT OWNED OR OWNABLESo then who effectively controls public goods?
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@Athias
PUBLIC = FREELY AVAILABLE TO EVERYONENot true. Case in point: public libraries. You can take a book out which typically necessitates a library card. In the event that one returns a book late, or doesn't return the book at all, one is charged. The manner in one may access a public good may be easier, but not necessarily "free."
You've just managed to prove that STATE run libraries are NOT PUBLIC.
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@Athias
STATE = MONOPOLY ON FORCETrue. How does the State's monopoly on force exclude it from being a public entity?
The STATE owns property that is not available to all people.
The STATE controls resources that are not available to all people.
The STATE controls services that are not available to all people.
The absolute best possible STATE acts like a "benevolent" corporation that is funded by "subscriber fees" (taxes).
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@Athias
How would you then characterize the State? How are its functions certainly NOT public?
Almost everything about the STATE is functionally PRIVATE.
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@Athias
eir perpetuated cooperation regulates the management, acquisition, as well as the alienation of their respective properties, then they either "share" ownership (which undermines th
Corporations cooperate all the time.
They can make and break these non-contractual alliances at will.
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@Athias
Worker unions will manifest in order to sustain "employee-ownership."
There are no "worker unions" in EMPLOYEE-OWNED companies.
The workers are the management.
There is absolutely no reason to form a completely new organization to "negotiate with management".
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@ethang5
Your moral opinion does not qualify as "objective", plain and simpleI know. I did not say it did.
Well, case closed.
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@ethang5
However it is defined, "Hinduism" is a "worldview" in exactly the same way ATHEISM is a "worldview".
There is no ATHEIST handbook.
There is no ATHEIST tradition.
There is no ATHEIST clergy.
And by the technical definition, if you lack-belief in ANY "god($)" you can be described as an ATHIEST.
If you don't happen to believe in ZEUS for example, you could technically be described as an ATHEIST.
Of course, nobody is under any OBLIGATION to describe themselves as an ATHEIST, regardless of what they might or might not happen to believe.
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@ethang5
Nope. You just don't know the bible.
Your logical fallacy is, APPEAL TO IGNORANCE.
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@ethang5
Here is a question for you. We're any of these slaves not voluntary?
Are you kidding me?
I'm going to hazard a guess that the slaves that were literally BORN INTO SLAVERY were "not voluntary".
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@ethang5
Can you please share this "objective standard" with the public?I have before. If you wish to discuss it, make a thread.Do you have any objective reason for saying it is wrong?
Bold enough to make a claim.
Not bold enough to validate that claim.
Your moral opinion does not qualify as "objective", plain and simple.
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@ethang5
ATHEISM is a "worldview" in exactly the same way "Hinduism" is a "worldview".
Hinduism is not defined by a LACK-of-belief in "YHWH" (even though it does not include a belief in "YHWH").
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@ethang5
Yes, it's written in a book.I doubt Amoranemix, who that question was for, would have answered that stupidly.
Isn't your "objective" perfect moral standard perfect and moral and "objective" because it just happens to be written in a book?
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@Athias
Define "State"; define "public"; define "private."
STATE = MONOPOLY ON FORCE
PUBLIC = FREELY AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE
PUBLIC = NOT OWNED OR OWNABLE
PRIVATE = REQUIRES EXPRESS PERMISSION FROM OWNER TO ACCESS
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@Athias
Employee-Ownership-->Worker Unions-->Wage Regulations-->Price Regulations-->Non/UN-Free market.
Workers negotiating wages and individual internal company policy is no more "anti-free-market" than Private-Individual-Owners setting wages and individual company policy.
Internal corporate policies are NOT "REGULATIONS".
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@Athias
The State is a public entity.
No. It most certainly is NOT.
The State is a public enemy.
That's better.
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@Athias
Individual-Owners are prone to syndicalist cooperation and regulations, which mimics the State.In which case, they cease to be "Individual" owners.
Fellow conspirators in a syndicate do not share ownership.
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@AddledBrain
This is so far out in right field it doesn't deserve comment. It couldn't be more removed from reality .. just the same as the rest of your dreamy analysis.
Please challenge my axioms and or point out a specific logical error and or provide a counter-factual.
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@AddledBrain
Why don't we just borrow enough money to give everyone an extravagant wage, full healthcare and a Tesla in every garage.
Even the fakest of fake paper fiat can only retain its allure if there are lots of people who really really need it, people willing to risk their lives for it.
Sort of a "religion-of-money-worshipers".
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@AddledBrain
Why is Congress arguing about petty details ?
(EITHER) they're all idiots (OR) they're playing it up to distract the crowd
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@AddledBrain
Our Nation's credit, respectability and influence would be trashed in an instant.
Yeah, what precious little faint scraps still cling to its rotting corpse.
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@AddledBrain
Maybe the Government could confiscate what they want and maybe they can't. The US does have a Constitution setting ground rules and limits for the Government and Citizens alike.
Rights.
Boy, everyone in this country always running around yammering about their fukkin rights.
I have a right, you have no right, we have a right, they don't have a right,
Folks, I hate to spoil your fun, BUT,
There's no such thing as rights, ok?
They're imaginary.
We made 'em up.
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@AddledBrain
Does it relieve US taxpayers from having to work, as we always have, for the funds to make these tax payments ?I don't see how your explanation really changes anything.
The "US taxpayers" only "have" to work for FOOD, CLOTHING, AND SHELTER.
What you "pay" in "taxes" is basically a "transaction fee" for the CONVENIENCE of using a system of MONOPOLY-MONEY that allows you to obtain FOOD, CLOTHING, AND SHELTER.
The government doesn't "need" your "taxes" to "pay" for anything. They have the power to confiscate anything they want.
The "government debt" (THAT YOU SEEM SO WORRIED ABOUT) is OWED to the PRIVATE CARTEL known as "the federal reserve bank" (which is not "federal" and is NOT a government entity).
(IFF) "the government" wanted to erase their own debt (THEN) they would simply abolish the federal reserve and tell the TREASURE DEPARTMENT (a real government entity) to START ISSUING COIN (NOT paper).
Now, I know what you're thinking.
Wouldn't that make all government bonds WORTHLESS OVERNIGHT?
Yes. Yes it would.
Well, that's "inconceivable" you might say.
No. Not by a long shot.
ENGLAND DID EXACTLY THAT AFTER WW1.
PUERTO RICO DID EXACTLY THAT IN 2014.
GREECE ALSO DID EXACTLY THAT IN 2012.
Now, the only "problem" here is that if you can't issue your own money (Greece was on the Euro, Puerto Rico on the USD), then it makes it very hard to hide your scam.
In order to understand this, we need to ask ourselves why governments finance their deficits through the issuance of bonds in the first place, rather than just asking the central bank to print money, which would not add to public debt. Ultimately, the answer is the fear of inflation. When it runs a budget deficit, the government injects demand into the economy. By selling bonds to cover the deficit, it absorbs private savings, leaving less to be used to finance private investment. Another way of looking at this is that it raises interest rates by selling the bonds. Furthermore the private sector recognizes that the bonds will one day need to be redeemed, so the expected burden of taxation in the future rises. This reduces private expenditure today. Let us call this combination of factors the “restraining effect” of bond sales. [**]
In 1932, in the grip of the Great Depression, Britain (and France) defaulted on First World War debt to the United States – the so-called inter-allied debt. [**]
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@Theweakeredge
I admire your skepticism.
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@drafterman
I am not saying it is acausal. I am saying that acausality is not ruled out.
But that hypothesis cannot be restricted to specific phenomena.
Non-causal events "could be" at the root of all things.
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@Athias
There is no aspect of socialism (EMPLOYEE OWNERSHIP) that makes socialism incompatible with a FREE-MARKET.
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@AddledBrain
Paper money started as receipts for gold deposits.
Literally "bank notes".
They were issued by individual banks.
Each note was exchangeable for a very specific amount of gold.
After some amount of time passed, the banks figured out that nobody was checking how much gold they had.
And they started creating "bank notes" out of thin-air so they could buy stuff.
They called this NAKED SCAM, "fractional reserve banking".
Then they made sure everyone "learned" that "fractional reserve banking" and "2% inflation" is "good for the economy".
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@Benjamin
Unstable nuclei are necessary for radioactive decay to happen but it is not the cause for decaying. As I proved "cause" and "allow" both involve "condition"
The bullet wound through the dog's stomach did not CAUSE it to bleed to death.
The bullet wound through the dog's stomach ALLOWED it to bleed to death.
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@Benjamin
We are scientists that have to look at a plane from afar:
- Having wings allows a plane to fly, but they are not the cause of it flying
- Having an engine allows a plane to fly, but it is not the cause
- Air allows a plane to fly, but it is not the cause
- etc
- The plane suddenly starts flying - and thus the flight is acausal.
Great example.
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@Theweakeredge
Japan surrendered because the Soviet Union entered the war [August 8, 1945]. Japanese leaders said the bomb forced them to surrender because it was less embarrassing to say they had been defeated by a miracle weapon [August 6th and 9th, 1945]. Americans wanted to believe it, and the myth of nuclear weapons was born.
Look at the facts.
The United States bombed 68 cities in the summer of 1945. If you graph the number of people killed in all 68 of those attacks, you imagine that Hiroshima is off the charts, because that’s the way it’s usually presented. In fact, Hiroshima is second. Tokyo, a conventional attack, is first in the number killed. If you graph the number of square miles destroyed, Hiroshima is sixth. If you graph the percentage of the city destroyed, Hiroshima is 17th. [**]
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@drafterman
Radioactive decay cannot be prevented or caused, ergo by your own definition, it is acausal.
Simply because you don't know how to prevent or accelerate a particular event does not mean that event is "uncaused".
Making a claim like, "it is acausal" is just another appeal to ignorance.
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@Benjamin
"God is playing dice with the universe. But even though it is random, it still has a cause - God"
And even GOD is subject to the laws of cause and effect.
(IFF) GOD knows everything (THEN) GOD cannot generate an "unpredictable" or "random" action
Perhaps I'd say,
"God may or may not be playing dice with the universe. From our perspective it looks exactly the same either way."
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@Athias
"Employee-ownership" is very much the same as "public" ownership,
Employee-Ownership is more like a private-club.
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@Athias
And China is very much communist.
By what definition?
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