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@Tarik
we don’t choose to like unhealthy foodswe don’t choose to like singer A’s voice more than singer B’s voice
we don't choose our desires.
we don't choose our motives.
we don't choose our parents.
we don't choose our birthplace.
Your "religion" and consequently your "moral code" is largely an accident of birth.
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@Theweakeredge
I am typically very anti-authoratarian, even in the best circumstances - let's say the person is really nice, cares about their "country" or "nation" or whatever - Running a country is hard from what I've read they can become very easily overworked, even good people are manipulatable, whenever one person is in charge of everything typically there aren't people checking their work, so they make more mistakes.... but.... even "good" people can be wrong, and can be corrupted by literally being the king of everything. To be clear, that won't even be the case most of the time, and even if, let's like in Rome, you start off with a "good" or at the very least successful dictator, it is not very likely that will last. Decentralized Control? Hmm.... I'd have to do more research to answer for sure, but from what I've read it seems appealing.
WE MUST DEMAND HOLACRACY + RCV.
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@ethang5
Please make your personally preferred definition(s) EXPLICITDefinition of words are established. I choose the correct definition, I do not cherry-pick based on my personal preference. I was telling theweakeredge that his definition is incorrect, not offering one of my own.
THERE IS MORE THAN ONE DICTIONARY ON THE PLANET EARTH.
ALMOST EVERY SINGLE WORD HAS MORE THAN ONE DEFINITION.
WHICH ONE DO YOU USE?
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@Tarik
For the sake of discussion let’s assume morality and its nature, if you presume it’s subjective then a naysayer has a right to ask for proof but proof goes against subjectivity making it fundamentally impossible because proof is objective.
Please present your personally preferred definition of "objective".
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Why is that only atheist can say they are anti a whole group of people and not hate them but any other group who said that would be called out on it.
The whole point is that "anti-theist" is against the idea of a THESITIC GOD.
NOT "against" humans.
It's kind of like saying you're "anti-fascist".
Or "anti-racist".
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You mean like slavery and forced indentured servitude like the US with cotton, agriculture, rail roads and such? Still using it today with illegal immigration. Let's talk about the killing of the Native Americans and Africans for sport. Let's talk about the complete annihilation of native religions in Europe buy Catholics.
Well stated.
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@Tradesecret
I concede that the example of Abraham is relevant to this question but I take the view that that example was unique. It was one out of the box and was for our understanding not for our example to follow.
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@Greyparrot
You just need to trust authority a little harder.They know what is best. You do not.
I never took you for an Authoritarian.
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@Theweakeredge
Because their president lost. What happened whenever Hilary lost in 2016, were there riots?
Yes.
There were riots.
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@Jasmine
Don't be surprised if all of your votes get contested and removed.
The "RFD" standards can be a little ridiculous.
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@Theweakeredge
that does not necessarily mean that you hate theists.
Excellent point.
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@ethang5
The word Objective in our discussion does not mean actual.
Please make your personally preferred definition(s) EXPLICIT.
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@Theweakeredge
I feel that a god would do more harm than good - and this especially applies to the incantations that theists believe in.
Are you generally anti-authoritarian?
Do you find the idea of decentralized control appealing?
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@Benjamin
You are correct when reffering to the world.Why is the world becomming a better place?
- Capitalism - Created by christianity
So, the ancient Greeks and Chinese never bought or sold things or owned businesses?
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@Theweakeredge
"Objective morality" you claim, yet you don't understand that if what god's typically spew is "morality" then I want nothing to do with morality.
PROTECT YOURSELF.
PROTECT YOUR FAMILY.
PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY.
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@Dr.Franklin
oNLY the RICH (& famous) deserve privilege.no they should not
How do you propose we "fix" this "problem"?
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@Benjamin
Society were as stable and peacefull as possible during the Christian dominion.
Tomás de Torquemada [**]
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@Theweakeredge
...han other people, no, but since they are targeted more (like a denomination that literally wants state mandated executions of gay people) they should have a bit more protection. Just like if som...
They should have the exact same "rights" & "privileges" that wealthy senators have.
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@Benjamin
USA was never paganistic, unlles you clasify indian spiritual traditions as paganism.
And those nice Christians were so kind and friendly and kept all their promises and stuff...
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@Dr.Franklin
no specific group should be "privledged"
oNLY the RICH (& famous) deserve privilege.
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@Benjamin
I would say that Humans are violent evil and brutal, that all civilisations fought and killed each other, and only the Christian west stopped doing so.
The St. Bartholomew's Day massacre (French: Massacre de la Saint-Barthélemy) in 1572 was a targeted group of assassinations and a wave of Catholic mob violence, directed against the Huguenots (French Calvinist Protestants) during the French Wars of Religion. Traditionally believed to have been instigated by Queen Catherine de' Medici, the mother of King Charles IX, the massacre took place a few days after the wedding day (18 August) of the king's sister Margaret to the Protestant Henry of Navarre (the future Henry IV of France). Many of the most wealthy and prominent Huguenots had gathered in largely Catholic Paris to attend the wedding. [**]
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@Benjamin
Can you plesase show me ANY country that was ever great without being Christian or former Christian?
CHINA.
EGYPT.
ROME.
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@Amoranemix
PGA2.0 : “You forget so soon. The Bible says that God is necessary to know what is good GM.”
Case closed.
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@Jasmine
Because it hurts people.
Buying ice-cream hurts people.
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@Theweakeredge
you are literally just guessing the goal.
And yet, it was shockingly popular.
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@ethang5
Hebrews could not own slaves in the old souths because God said,
"Take your slaves from the nations around you."
"You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." [LINK]
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@ethang5
Exodus 21:26-2726 “An owner who hits a male or female slave in the eye and destroys it must let the slave go free to compensate for the eye. 27 And an owner who knocks out the tooth of a male or female slave must let the slave go free to compensate for the tooth.
You can own people and their children and bequeath them on as part of your children's inheritance.
JUST DON'T POKE THEIR EYES OUT.
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@ethang5
Deuteronomy 24:7
7 If someone is caught kidnapping a fellow Israelite and treating or selling them as a slave, the kidnapper must die. You must purge the evil from among you.
fellow Israelite
fellow Israelite
fellow Israelite
fellow Israelite
fellow Israelite
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@FLRW
However, some theorists claim we can know many more moral propositions a priori, in particular, propositions that are not so closely tied to the meaning or reference of moral terms. Others go farther, claiming that most or all moral claims can be known a priori, or even that moral claims can be known only a priori.
Hume's guillotine
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@ebuc
You dont get it that no one owns the Earth or the sky.
Well, some people are really good at "pretending".
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@ethang5
The bible explicitly forbids ownership of ANY human (slavery) and sets the penalty for slavery as death.
Citation please.
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@ethang5
My point was not that slavery did not exist, but that the bible does not condone or excuse it.
"Take your slaves from the nations around you."
"You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." [LINK]
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@fauxlaw
However, there were also slaves who were so their entire lives, so it was both indentured servitude and slavery in a traditional sense.
"Take your slaves from the nations around you."
"You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." [LINK]
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@ethang5
I'm going to hazard a guess that the slaves that were literally BORN INTO SLAVERY were "not voluntary".You would be wrong. The kind of slavery the Bible is talking about is indentured servitude where a person worked off a debt.
"INDENTURED SERVITUDE" WAS FOR "FELLOW ISRAELITES".
LIFELONG SLAVERY AND OWNERSHIP OF YOUR SLAVES CHILDREN FOR LIFE WAS FOR THE "FOREIGN BORN".
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@PGA2.0
PS. I object to your use of "thumbs up" as a bookmark. That is not how this tool at the bottom of the post should be used.
I find your posts interesting enough to read and I like to show my appreciation.
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@ebuc
You dont seem to get that all other systems of governance have been chasing or attempting to prove their system is better..Free market capitalism allows the smallest few to do most damamge to ecology via their greed and greed of all peoples.
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@PGA2.0
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@PGA2.0
"Atheists believe in atheism"???
ATHEISM is NOT a belief.
Atheists lack belief in concepts???
Specifically they lack belief in at least one or more concepts of "god".
Atheists might accept logical concepts...???
Sure, an ATHEIST might accept the concept of "Spinoza's god", for example.
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@Athias
I don't quite understand the application of this citation. Are you citing it to convey that there will always be a threat of overuse and "selfish" interests countermanding the "common good"? Are you suggesting that examples of commons in the article serve as an example of regulated public goods? What is the "common good"?
River water is a good example.
Do upstream farmers "own" the river?
If upstream farmers divert the flow of the river to irrigate their crops and thus deprive downstream farmers of adequate water for their crops, is it "stealing"?
If upstream factories dump chemical waste into the water making it dangerous to plants and animals downstream, is that "vandalism"?
Who is the "owner"?
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@Athias
You've just managed to prove that STATE run libraries are NOT PUBLIC.How? Why does "public" necessarily mean "freely available to everyone"?
Please present your personally preferred definition of "public".
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@Athias
The State "owns" nothing; the State in effect assumes control through, as you correctly surmised, the monopolization of (deadly) force. But even by the State's inconsistent legal rubric, the State doesn't exercise abusus (alienation) of its property. It in effect "rents" in all cases.
Who does the State rent from?
Who does the State rent to?
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@Athias
Almost everything about the STATE is functionally PRIVATE.How so?
You can get arrested for sleeping in a "public" park.
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@Athias
Corporations cooperate all the time.They can make and break these non-contractual alliances at will.Yes, they do. But Corporations aren't necessarily "private" or "individual."
Most corporations are controlled by a 51% stakeholder.
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@Athias
And the concept of hierarchy wouldn't apply to "worker management"?
HOLACRACY.
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@ebuc
Capitalism is more unfettered than socialism on all issues. You dont seem to get that.
CAPITALISM = INDIVIDUAL PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF BUSINESS
SOCIALISM = EMPLOYEE OWNERSHIP OF BUSINESS
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@Discipulus_Didicit
does it actually require more resources to have one school for the whites, one for the blacks, one for the Arabs, one for the Asians, etc.?
The information below, listed in the same order as the questionnaire, was provided to help you respond:
White:
The category “White” includes all individuals who identify with one or more nationalities or ethnic groups originating in Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. Examples of these groups include, but are not limited to, German, Irish, English, Italian, Lebanese, Egyptian, Polish, French, Iranian, Slavic, Cajun, and Chaldean.
Just a small note here,
German, Irish, English, Italian, Lebanese, Egyptian, Polish, French, Iranian, Slavic have historically TRIED TO MURDER EACH OTHER AND ARE IN NO WAY "THE SAME".
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@RationalMadman
Darker eyed white people and darker eyed black people, prefer fast-paced learning. They will tend to perform better in exams per IQ point they have and be very bad liars.
Citation please.
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@Greyparrot
There exists zero scientific data that shows the color of your skin has anything to do with the DNA affecting intelligence. There is no scientific direct cause and effect. There is no way that you can put a person's skin under a shade chart and say definitively what their DNA is regarding intelligence and back it up with real science.
Well stated.
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@Athias
Yes, it was. Brown vs. The Board of Education was a means of ingratiating so called "black" students into the "public" public school system--which is pretty much a network of detention centers, and indoctrination camps. In said public school systems, not only are so called "black" children conditioned and exposed to so called "white," predominantly female authorities, but they're fed with false narratives especially about their history. Integration erodes indigenous cultures, and that hasn't bode well for so called "black" demographics in the United States.
Well stated.
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@PGA2.0
How I protect myself, my family, my property, or determine that I need to protect myself, family, or property may have a detrimental effect on those who have done nothing wrong or even on what is right and wrong. It is not based upon my feelings or perceptions but upon what is right and wrong.
What part of your holy scriptures asks you to contravene your instinct to protect yourself, your family, and your property?
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