3RU7AL's avatar

3RU7AL

A member since

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Total posts: 14,582

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Would it be out of line...
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@Lemming
All sentiment creatures, are clear enough not the same/equal in all faucets of reality.
What do you believe qualifies as a "sentient creature" or "sentient being"?
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@secularmerlin
"all sentient creatures are equal except for those humans who happen to have been born too far away across arbitrary borders".
Wow.
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@Lemming
Context, I mean, one of the problems of dogma, and the written word.
Well stated.

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@Lemming
Whether someone values a base emotional cue, or a complex reasoning of function,
Intellectual (explainable) "motives" are merely post-hoc (posteriori) rationalizations of subconscious directives (e-motion).

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@secularmerlin
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all sentient beings are equal, that they are endowed by their fellow sentient beings with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Is this any better?
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TRUST NO ONE
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@Lemming
Intuitions good for the right direction, I think, but can have difficulty working in a clean, precise way.
INTUITION is the only basis for HYPOTHESIS (PROTO-HYPOTHESIS).

But it is important to not fall into the trap of the "COMMON-SENSE" fallacy (faith in intuition).

Only a CON-ARTIST appeals to "COMMON-SENSE".
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@Lemming
'Cheating cults, don't mind hypocrisy so much I'd say,
THE ULTIMATE ACT OF SABOTAGE (REVOLT) IS TO "FOLLOW THE LETTER OF THE LAW".
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@Lemming
Though I can acknowledge your ideal as valid, and desire and act upon it to a degree in life myself.
When I'm not valuing 'myself above others,
I value my tribe.
I value that my tribe be a humane one, but not to the point that it loses out, or disappears.
People value what they value,
Though with causation, sure there's reasons for such.
(1) PROTECT YOURSELF
(2) PROTECT YOUR FAMILY (TRIBE)
(3) PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY
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@Lemming
If I 'developed the hypothesis more often, it wouldn't be such a flaw.
Perhaps, A PROTO-HYPOTHESIS.
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@Lemming
Identify some piece of morality or methodology of logic as being more righteous than the others.
, Ah but my bent is nihilism/subjectivism/relativism.
ALL CULTS DECRY HYPOCRISY.

AND AS SUCH, ARE DE FACTO CONSCRIPTS OF LOGICAL-COHERENCE.
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@Lemming
Large flaw of mine is having lazed thoughts, not minding the haze that obscures them, enough to blow it away, or reason them further in. Often I see their edges, the tips of thought, and go with my intuition.
Not so much a "flaw" as it is, THE ORIGIN OF HYPOTHESIS.
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@secularmerlin
Perhaps we should codify this as a constitutional amendment.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
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TRUST NO ONE
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@ebuc
Trust is a network of experiences that we develop over time. 

The amount of time to develop varying degrees of trust varys for each individual.

We trust in a finite set of cosmic laws/principles to be absolute truth because so many scientific based  individuals have told  us they are an absolute truths.
Well stated.
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TRUST NO ONE
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@Lemming
Also thought like RationalMadman, that the detective would win.
Yes, I thought the same thing, yet, unexpectedly, SCIENCE is often COUNTER-INTUITIVE.
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Scientific Racism
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Are Companies that make ( BANDAIDS )  raciest?    
Please make your definition of "raciest" EXPLICIT.

(IFF) "raciest" means someone (or something) "filled with hate based on skin-tone" (THEN) a psychopathic corporation seeking to maximize profits at all costs is not "filled with hate based on skin-tone" and is (THERFORE) NOT "raciest" ("active-racism").

HOwEveR, 

(IFF) "raciest" means someone (or something) that "implicitly and unintentionally shows preferential treatment based on skin-tone" (THEN) a psychopathic corporation (or government or other system or organization) that neglects to consider (and mitigate) whether or not their products and or services disproportionately help people of certain skin-tones over people of other skin-tones is (THEREFORE) "raciest" ("passive-racism").
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Scientific Racism
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@Deb-8-a-bull
But being raciest about anything science like, plays 2ND fiddle.  It's way more important for the claim to be the truth.  Science.
SCIENCE =/= TRUTH

SCIENCE =/= OBJECTIVE
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@secularmerlin
I'm afraid that rights are mostly granted by mob democracy. A man's right to life and liberty can be taken away by any group larger, better armed and/or better organized than his. The mechanism is and always has been concerned citizens fighting against the status quo for the betterment of the status quo.
Well stated.
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A CIVIL CONVERSATION - BREONNA TAYLOR
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@Vader
There was a warrant for the mans arrest so they could enter the home.
THE MAN (Jamarcus Glover) was arrested 10 miles away within minutes of the shooting.

The police were conducting simultaneous raids on multiple homes at 12:40am.

There were NO criminal suspects and there was NO contraband at Breonna Taylor's apartment.

The irony here is that Taylor was not deemed threatening enough to merit a SWAT team. Instead, she was subjected to all of the most dangerous aspects of a SWAT raid, undertaken by officers in street clothes. There were no medics nearby. In fact, an ambulance on standby was told to leave the scene an hour before the raid. After she was shot, Taylor lie in her house for 20 minutes before receiving any medical attention. [LINK]
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A CIVIL CONVERSATION - BREONNA TAYLOR
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@Greyparrot
Ridicule. usually strongly implies AD HOMINEM ATTACK.
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@Greyparrot
The only cure for racism is to mock the idea completely through every form of satire and ridicule available.
THE ONLY "CURE" FOR AD HOMINEM ATTACKS (WHICH INCLUDES RACISM) IS TO POINT OUT AD HOMINEM ATTACKS (BOTH POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE APPEALS TO IDENTITY).
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A CIVIL CONVERSATION - BREONNA TAYLOR
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
sure, look at what happened to the President with the fisa warrant.  citizens have give up too much power to the government for the false sense of security.
I agree.

However, the FISA court EXPLICITLY has a much lower standard-of-suspicion (barrier to entry) than a "non-secret" public court.
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@secularmerlin
...only the qualification that all humans being afforded "rights" would be preferable to the alternative. 
Do you have any thoughts regarding the practical MECHANISM that would necessarily insure these afforded "rights"?
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@secularmerlin
I believe "freedom" can be quantified by observing whether or not an individual has access to UNCONDITIONAL food, clothing and shelter (as well as unfettered access to "public" property).
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A CIVIL CONVERSATION - BREONNA TAYLOR
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@Greyparrot
Thanks for the link!


The core failing of the case appears to be the WARRANT.
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A CIVIL CONVERSATION - BREONNA TAYLOR
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
oh I didn't know they knocked for 12 minutes......ugh what a mess and terrible situation,  there has to be a better way, I'm not sure how needed or useful these ways of arrest attempts are.
12:40 a.m.: Officers were in place outside of Taylor's apartment and began to knock on the door.

12:42 a.m.: Neighbors in the St. Anthony Garden Apartments call 911 to report gunshots.

12:47 a.m.: Walker calls 911 and says, "Somebody kicked in the door and shot my girlfriend."

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@TheDredPriateRoberts
these officers can't be found guilty if they didn't break any laws right?
The "plainclothes" officers didn't do anything "illegal".

The Judge who issued a warrant on extremely flimsy "suspicion" is the primary culprit.
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@Greyparrot
Had the officers actually stayed with a no-knock warrant, the boyfriend would likely not have had an opportunity to get Breonna killed.

Instead, the police painted a target on their backs by deviating from the warrant and knocking on the door for 12 minutes.
Yeah, too bad "the cops" can't just break down the doors of INNOCENT PEOPLE LOOKING FOR "SUSPECTS" THEY ALREADY HAVE IN CUSTODY.
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@secularmerlin
I am not however talking about resources but only about freedom afforded...
If you were going to attempt to measure "freedom afforded", what do you believe are some of the key quantifiers?
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@BrotherDThomas
You're such a good boy.
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@Dr.Franklin
Good thing nobody investigated Judge Mary Shaw.
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@BrotherDThomas
good boy.
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which causes more problems for black folks? white racism or black culture itself?
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@Greyparrot
@zedvictor4
@bmdrocks21
THERADICALANTICENTRIST.
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A CIVIL CONVERSATION - BREONNA TAYLOR
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@Dr.Franklin
I agree.
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Scientific Racism
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@BrotherDThomas
You seem to be impervious to irony.
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Plato's Parable of the MMORPG
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@Lemming
Why is the world outside of the game, knowledge?
I'm drawing a distinction between REAL-TRUE-FACTS (AND) INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM OPINION.

IN-GAME = REAL-TRUE-FACTS (QUANTA) must be empirically verifiable and or LOGICALLY NECESSARY (and emotionally meaningless).

IN-APARTMENT = Experiential (QUALIA) must be private, personal, unfalsifiable, GNOSIS, functionally indistinguishable from a dream and or OPINION (and emotionally meaningful).

GNOSIS in this context is related to the term GNOSTIC (direct, non-external, non-sensory experience).
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A CIVIL CONVERSATION - BREONNA TAYLOR
BREONNA TAYLOR - We've been brainwashed again. On both sides.

I normally try and steer-clear of any "topic of the week" and I didn't even look into any of this until today.

I just thought, "cops killed somebody and some people think it was justified and some people don't" it seems like "facts-don't-matter" anymore, so who cares?

# CONCLUSIONS.
###
THIS IS A MASSIVE FAILURE OF INTELLIGENCE.

THE PATRIOT ACT GIVES POLICE VAST, SWEEPING, AND VIRTUALLY UNFETTERED SURVEILLANCE POWERS.

(IFF) THE POLICE HAD NARROWED THE SUSPECT'S LOCATION TO ONLY 2 LIKELY LOCATIONS, WHY DID THEY NOT SIMPLY WAIT FOR THE SUSPECT TO WALK OUTSIDE INTO AN AMBUSH?  OR WHY DID THEY NOT SIMPLY PLACE A TRACKER ON THEIR VEHICLE AND AMBUSH THEM (IN PLAINCLOTHES) AS THEY CARRY GROCERIES BACK TO THEIR CAR?

AND IF 3 GUYS IN **PLAINCLOTHES** STARTED BANGING ON MY DOOR IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT YELLING "THIS IS THE POLICE" I WOULDN'T BELIEVE THEM.

PRO TIP:  I'VE SEEN THIS HAPPEN AND IT WASN'T "THE POLICE" AT ALL.

Here are the **REAL-TRUE-FACTS**.

BREONNA TAYLOR = INNOCENT

KENNETH WALKER = INNOCENT

JONATHAN MATTINGLY = INNOCENT

BRETT HANKISON = INNOCENT (of manslaughter)

MYLES COSGROVE = INNOCENT

# How the FUCK can they all be innocent you ask??
###
It's a simple matter of brainwashing.

Imagine a blind intersection.

Now imagine that automobile accidents happen at this blind intersection.

All the time.

Every year 300 people die at this blind intersection.

WHO DO YOU BLAME FOR THE ACCIDENT(S)??

YOU ARE BRAINWASHED TO ALWAYS BLAME THE DRIVER(S).

### Nobody ever seems to ask, "who designed this idiotic blind intersection?"
###

We're brainwashed to believe there is always a human, directly involved with the "accident" that "should have" somehow "acted differently" and is somehow "morally inferior" and worthy of blame and "deserves" to be punished or even crippled (or killed).

"well, she shouldn't have been friends with a drug-dealer" I've actually heard someone say.

In some "rare" cases we say "both drivers were at-fault" but NEVER DO WE EVEN CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY THAT **NONE** WERE AT-FAULT.

THERE MUST BE A "GOOD GUY" AND A "BAD GUY".

THERE MUST BE A "HERO" AND THERE MUST BE A "VILLIAN".

### REAL-TRUE-FACTS:
###
12:40 AM MARCH 13TH 2020 - three plainclothes officers serve a no-knock warrant.

FULL STOP.

WHY??

Because Breonna Taylor was listed as a telephone contact and her apartment's mailing address was listed by Jamarcus Glover who was currently under investigation and wanted by police.  Spoiler alert:  Jamarcus Glover was actually arrested (10 miles away, at his home) at almost the exact same time that Breonna Taylor was shot to death.

Detective Joshua Jaynes, who obtained the search warrant for Taylor’s apartment, has also been **reassigned** by the department’s leadership **[NOT CHARGED WITH ANY CRIME]**. [LINK](https://www.savannahnow.com/news/20200924/fact-checking-8-myths-in-breonna-taylor-case-was-she-asleep-when-police-shot-her-is-there-body-cam-footage)

The search warrant for Taylor and her home explicitly identified her and her address. The Louisville police were not there by mistake. They believed that Taylor had ties to [Jamarcus] Glover **[GUILT-BY-ASSOCIATION]**, one of the main suspects in the [DRUG RELATED] investigation. [LINK](https://www.savannahnow.com/news/20200924/fact-checking-8-myths-in-breonna-taylor-case-was-she-asleep-when-police-shot-her-is-there-body-cam-footage)


# Police located their main suspect before going into Taylor’s home
###
### 2 WARRANTS WERE SERVED SIMULTANEOUSLY AND THE "TARGET" JAMARCUS GLOVER WAS ARRESTED WITHOUT BLOODSHED AT HIS HOME.  RENDERING ANY "SEARCH" FOR JAMARCUS GLOVER AT BREONNA TAYLOR'S APARTMENT UNNECESSARY.
###
But even if [Jamarcus] Glover was not in custody before officers forced their way into Taylor’s home, based on statements by Mattingly, police still likely **knew where he was** at that time, as attorneys for Taylor’s family assert. [LINK](https://www.savannahnow.com/news/20200924/fact-checking-8-myths-in-breonna-taylor-case-was-she-asleep-when-police-shot-her-is-there-body-cam-footage)

**Judge Mary Shaw** has refused to address the case and her decision to sign the search warrant with The Courier Journal, but she has since told The New York Times she “asked needed questions of the officer, reviewed the affidavits prepared for each warrant and subsequently made the probable-cause determination required of me by law.” [NO DETAILS PROVIDED]  [LINK](https://www.savannahnow.com/news/20200924/fact-checking-8-myths-in-breonna-taylor-case-was-she-asleep-when-police-shot-her-is-there-body-cam-footage)

Louisville’s U.S. postal inspector, Tony Gooden, told WDRB News in May that a different agency (which he did not identify) had asked in January to look into whether Taylor’s home was receiving suspicious mail. The office had concluded that the apartment was not, Gooden said. [LINK](https://www.savannahnow.com/news/20200924/fact-checking-8-myths-in-breonna-taylor-case-was-she-asleep-when-police-shot-her-is-there-body-cam-footage)

Additionally, though Taylor and Glover once dated, Glover said they were no longer in touch before her death. There is no evidence Glover was living in Taylor’s apartment. [LINK](https://www.savannahnow.com/news/20200924/fact-checking-8-myths-in-breonna-taylor-case-was-she-asleep-when-police-shot-her-is-there-body-cam-footage)


# CONCLUSIONS.
###
THIS IS A MASSIVE FAILURE OF INTELLIGENCE.

THE PATRIOT ACT GIVES POLICE VAST, SWEEPING, AND VIRTUALLY UNFETTERED SURVEILLANCE POWERS.

(IFF) THE POLICE HAD NARROWED THE SUSPECT'S LOCATION TO ONLY 2 LIKELY LOCATIONS, WHY DID THEY NOT SIMPLY WAIT FOR THE SUSPECT TO WALK OUTSIDE INTO AN AMBUSH?  OR WHY DID THEY NOT SIMPLY PLACE A TRACKER ON THEIR VEHICLE AND AMBUSH THEM (IN PLAINCLOTHES) AS THEY CARRY GROCERIES BACK TO THEIR CAR?

AND IF 3 GUYS IN **PLAINCLOTHES** STARTED BANGING ON MY DOOR IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT YELLING "THIS IS THE POLICE" I WOULDN'T BELIEVE THEM.

PRO TIP:  I'VE SEEN THIS HAPPEN AND IT WASN'T "THE POLICE" AT ALL.

I watch this once a day - Click to watch 3 minutes,

At what point did we begin to conflate MONEY with MORALITY?

# NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE OR A JUDGE, THEY CAN LEGALLY LIE TO YOU

# NEVER CONVICT PEOPLE CHARGED WITH LAWS YOU DISAGREE WITH

### Perhaps anarchy already exists and "THE COMMUNITY" is merely the highest manifestation of organized crime. – special thanks to @thoughts-in-time
###
Essential HIVE links,

I WILL UPVOTE ANY AND ALL COMMENTS ON THIS POST, 1 UPVOTE PER ACCOUNT.  PLEASE FEEL FREE TO LEAVE A "∴"

Copyright notice: Feel free to copy and paste any LOGICZOMBIE original content (posts and or comments and or replies and logiczombie logo, excluding quoted 3rd party content of course) according to copyleft principles (creative commons zero).  In fact, I would prefer that you don't give me "credit" and simply post any choice quotes as your own (to mitigate the genetic fallacy).  Sort of a "Creative Commons (-1)".


<center>
### +proHUMAN +proFAMILY

Your scathing critique is requested.</center>
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Scientific Racism
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@BrotherDThomas
Your ad hominem attacks are uninspired.
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Plato's Parable of the MMORPG
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@Lemming
But how empty they might seem to a person who sees more, beyond the cave, how terrible it is to be chained again, how worthless that cave world is now to him, in light of his new experiences outside the cave.
How anathematical that man's views might be, to those used to seeing the world in the dark.
You seem quite astute.

"The Cave" and "The Shadows" are "The Game" (what we see through our eyes and hear through our ears).

"The World Outside The Cave" is "The Apartment" (what you "see" when you turn off your game, also known as GNOSIS).
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@Lemming
I don't think it's that gamers of MMORPGS are unaware that there are parts of life,
It's a metaphor for your experience of living and communicating.

What goes on "inside your own head" is PRIVATE GNOSIS.

What you see and do and say to OTHER PEOPLE is "IN GAME".
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@RoderickSpode
The reality is, if a scientist presents a theory that causes racial offense, whoever the voice for the scientific community has to take political action. The accusers are not basing
their accusation on science, but on political correctness.
YES.  AND "THE LAW" IS CODIFIED MOB RULE.

What is your prescription?

(IFF) it is "illegal" to fire someone for their religious beliefs (or lack of religious beliefs) (THEN) it should also be "illegal" to fire someone for their (other) "idiotic" beliefs.

But this DOUBLE-EDGED-SWORD cuts both ways.

(IFF) you CAN fire someone for their religious beliefs (or lack of religious beliefs) (THEN) you CAN fire someone for their (other) "idiotic" beliefs.
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@RoderickSpode
Well, the Hindus have been operating on acceptance of social status based on skin color for roughly 5000 years.
Sure. And thus the violent protests and uprisings amongst the lower caste who are crying out for justice/equality.

It's the resistance against equality that raises demands for equality.
What do you think changed in the past 5000 years?
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@BrotherDThomas
How embarrassing would that be, huh? LOL
COERCION is rarely an effective rhetorical tactic.
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@secularmerlin
Perhaps we should just treat them no differently than other humans because they are human.
While I do tend to agree with that inclination,

The "problem" seems to be that different people have different abilities and some may require more resources than others.

When you say "treat them no differently", are you suggesting equal "help" or equal "no-help"?
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@secularmerlin
I could Google him but the name is unimportant. All arguments stand or fall on their own without regard to who formulated them or who is presenting them so why don't you just present the argument. 
Well stated.
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which causes more problems for black folks? white racism or black culture itself?
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@bmdrocks21
"Social security steals from the poor" "insurance steals from the prepared and gives to the unprepared"
These seem rather contradictory. SS contributions are capped at $132,900. That is hardly "poor". Most people in the upper half of that range, I'd consider well off. 
If "social security" contributions weren't capped, then there would be more than enough funding to sustain the program.

PERCENTAGE WISE.  THE "POOR" CONTRIBUTE A GREATER PERCENTAGE OF THEIR INCOME THAN THE "RICH".

THIS IS A WAY OF PUNISHING THE "POOR" AND REWARDING THE "RICH".
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@bmdrocks21
But forgive me, what does this have to do with the forum topic? lol
It always strikes me as strange when people insist that a "social safety net" makes people "lazy" and yet still expect their "social security".

Shouldn't you be campaigning to cancel "social security"?
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@zedvictor4
British and Irish culture is the result of thousands of years of fighting....Typically we tend to focus on the more recent bits....A bit like how some like to continually focus upon one particular example of slavery....A drawback of  memory I suppose.
Like that time my grandparents killed your grandparents and left you to be raised as a penniless orphan.

I mean, a crime isn't really a crime if it happened in the past.
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@zedvictor4
I would also suggest that other sectors of American society are also  inclined to "not assimilate".
Yeah, when are the metal-heads and the country-music fans going to "assimilate" with the EDM crowd?
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@bmdrocks21
FDR..... That is something paid into for your whole career and that dictates how much you get. SNAP doesn't.
Social Security is a system that steals from the YOUNG to pay for the OLD.

Social Security is also a system that steals from the POOR because their contributions are never capped.

Social Security is NOT a "self-funded" "retirement" account.

It's more like "retirement (unemployment) insurance".

AND INSURANCE ALWAYS STEALS FROM THE LUCKY (PREPARED) AND GIVES TO THE UNLUCKY (UNPREPARED).

INSURANCE IS NEVER "SELF-FUNDED".
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@zedvictor4
If "science" differentiates using DNA and skeletal analysis techniques, then presumably similar differentiating factors occur and can be found in homo-sapiens.
I think you're somehow missing the key point.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, ground-breaking "science" "proved" that the "pale-face" humans are both morally and intellectually deficient.

What sort of POLICY would this "science" lead us to implement?

Should we round-up all the "pale-faced" humans and force them to live in walled-off communities where they can't "infect" the "good" humans?

Or should we perhaps pour zillions of dollars into "helping" the "pale-faced" humans "overcome" their "disabilities"?
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