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@Crocodile
A MASK DOESN'T PROTECT YOU FROM TOUCHING DOORS, CHAIRS AND TABLES.if you're following supposed guidelines, you're not supposed to be touching those "doors", "chairs" and "tables".
How do you open doors?
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@Crocodile
YOU'RE RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the fact-check!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
N95 filters 0.3 micron particles and most particles in your breath are about 1 micron.
HOwEVEr, IT DOES NOT FILTER OUTBOUND AIR.
IT DOES NOT FILTER OUTBOUND AIR AT ALL.
SO IF YOU'RE WEARING ONE OF THESE - YOU ARE NOT PROTECTING OTHERS.
THE WHOLE ARGUMENT FOR MASKS IS "YOU NEED TO PROTECT EVERYONE FROM YOUR EVIL INFECTION".
N95 MASKS DO NOT PROTECT OTHER PEOPLE BECAUSE THE VALVE - DOES NOT - FILTER OUTBOUND AIR.
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@ebuc
It is anti-intellectual to "swear allegiance" to anything except yourself.
Definition of allegiance:
1a: the obligation of a feudal vassal to his liege lord [LINK](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/allegiance)
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@ebuc
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@ebuc
IT'S LIKE WEARING A SIGN ON YOUR FOREHEAD THAT SAYS "WASH YOUR HANDS YOU IDIOT".
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@ebuc
The fact is you gave me articles interviews for referencing you oppinons and I pointed out to you how those same references stated masks make a differrence when complemented by all the other guidlines.
My point is that those "official sources" use WEASEL-WORDS like "probably" in order to qualify their OPINION that "masks might mitigate risk of plague infection".
The actual scientific studies on the matter concluded that parents of infected children who wore masks "most of the time" saw ZERO mitigation of virus infection relative to the control group who wore NO MASK. [CDC.GOV](https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/15/2/08-1167_article)
...those same references stated masks make a differrence when complemented by all the other guidlines.
YES. I AGREE. STAYING 100% ISOLATED AND CONSTANTLY WASHING YOUR HANDS WILL MITIGATE VIRAL INFECTION.
AND YOUR MASK BY ITSELF WILL DO NOTHING.
IT'S LIKE WEARING A SIGN ON YOUR FOREHEAD THAT SAYS "WASH YOUR HANDS YOU IDIOT".
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@ebuc
Cumo stated many months ago how obvious it was that masks made a differrence to health care workers in NY.
A STATEMENT OF OPINION DOES NOT CHANGE FACTS.
VIRUS = 0.025 MICRONS
N95 MASK FILTER = 3 MICRONS
PARTICLES IN BREATH = 1 MICRON
A MASK DOESN'T PROTECT YOU FROM TOUCHING DOORS, CHAIRS AND TABLES.
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@Greyparrot
Viri will be affected by mask, and all that gets trapped in a mask. Spit, dust etc all accumlate and add to the mass of the mask and will trap some amount of viri.As soon as you touch your mask, even to take it off or put it back on, you just made it useless because the virus is now all over your hands.
100% THIS.
THE MASK IS IN DIRECT CONTACT WITH YOUR LIPS AND NOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@HistoryBuff
Unbridled power is the fertile ground from which the POLICE STATE springs forth.no one has ever suggested that their power is, or should be "unbridled". So this statement is a pointless scare tactic.
Well, I certainly hope so.
What specific bridles do you believe are appropriate to limit "temporary" "emergency" powers of the state?
At what point do you believe they are "crossing the line".
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
but let's take this a step further. Does the U.S. play on a level playing field?
If you bend your own rules because "someone else somewhere is bending the rules" then you don't believe in your own rules.
LIVE BY THE FREE-MARKET AND DIE BY THE FREE-MARKET.
You can't expect to be able to COERCE the rest of the world into "free-markets".
And if you did manage to COERCE the rest of the world into "free-markets" you'd have created a DE FACTO DICTATORSHIP.
And don't forget, FREE-MARKETS REQUIRE THE FREE MOVEMENT OF LABOR.
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@HistoryBuff
THE GOVERNMENT CAN PROTECT US BY RESPECTING THE CONSTITUTION AND THE RULE OF LAW AND NOT MAKING UP NEW CAPRICIOUS AND TYRANNICAL "TEMPORARY" "POWERS".strongly disagree.
Unbridled power is the fertile ground from which the POLICE STATE springs forth.
You are essentially arguing that the government can protect people by letting hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people die.
(1) IFF "the government" was in the business of "saving lives" perhaps they should focus their attention on the #1 and #2 causes of death (which account for more than the next 28 leading causes of death). [LINK](https://hive.blog/hive-122315/@logiczombie/trust-cdc-gov)
(2) Even if a deadly fire or hurricane evacuation order is announced, the state does not have the authority to FORCIBLY REMOVE PEOPLE FROM THEIR HOMES (per the 4th amendment).
(3) HAVE YOU ACTUALLY LOOKED AT THE WEEKLY "DEATHS FROM ALL CAUSES" FROM CDC.GOV? THE NORMAL DEATH RATE IS BETWEEN 50,000 AND 60,000 PER WEEK. WE ARE CURRENTLY IN THIS NORMAL RANGE AND HAVE BEEN FOR MONTHS. [LINK](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/index.htm)
Look at table 1 and focus specifically on "DEATHS FROM ALL CAUSES" - notice how before COVID-19(84) it averaged close to 60,000 per week, goes up to the 70,000 range for about 6 weeks and then (May 23rd, 2020) drops down to the 60,000 range again and remains below 60,000.
You are essentially arguing that the government can protect people by letting hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people die.
(IFF) COVID-19(84) is super deadly and super infectious and constantly evolving and can reinfect recovered patients every 3 months (THEN) implement universal basic income and universal healthcare, mechanize food production and suspend (permanently close) all "non-essential" businesses and clubs (CHURCHES).
THIS IS NOT OVER AND WILL NEVER BE OVER. MELBOURNE IS EXTENDING THEIR "TEMPORARY" LOCK-DOWN (POLICE STATE) FOR THE NEXT 2 YEARS.
[LINK](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12195786/aus-state-two-year-lockdown-infected-coronavirus-refused-home/)
That makes no sense.
Please explain.
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@Greyparrot
The masks do not keep people from touching their faces and touching doors.Lol, you would think after about 50% of America getting infected with Covid, the vast majority without symptoms, that people would figure out it's not saliva or coughs spreading the virus. It's people touching their faces and then everything else.Cones of shame would work far better than masks.
Well stated.
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@ILikePie5
Hath hell frozen over? I’m agreeing with Brutal!!
It's official!
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@HistoryBuff
The recommended N95 facemasks have a valve that lets a sneeze pass unfiltered into the surrounding air.
A cloth face-mask does not filter out the 1 to 5 micron droplets generated from a sneeze.
The majority of particles emitted from your normal breath are about 1 micron in size.
The plague virus is 0.025 microns in size.
N95 masks only reliably filter (inbound) particles 3 microns in size.
The masks do not keep people from touching their faces and touching doors.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
absolutely, remember when they were trying to make a hate speech a thing? seems now the presumption of innocence is under attack. Divide and conquer is an age old effective tactic.
The presumption of innocence is under attack.
Well stated.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
...but see that's the thing you can't choose, no one should, you choose 4a because it's your priority then someone else chooses 2a because it's their priority and what ends up happening is they don't support each other.
Are you a human?
I fully support your right to express your opinion.
Are you oppressed?
I fully support your right to freedom from oppression.
There are a lot of ways to slice up this pie.
One of the most effective ways is to slice it up between those who make MORE THAN $500,000.00 a year (10X the median income) and those who make LESS THAN $500,000.00 a year.
Keeping the poor people squabbling with each other, stabbing each other in the back, scratching each other's eyes out over the crumbs that randomly fall from the sky is the favorite sport of the OWNERS.
Hate SJWs? Hate BLM? Hate MAGA? Hate Pelosi? Hate McConnell? Hate RED? Hate BLUE? Hate Black? Hate White? Hate idiots? Hate intellectuals?
It doesn't matter to them. THEY JUST WANT TO YOU HATE OTHER POOR PEOPLE SO YOU DON'T REALIZE WHAT THEY'RE DOING TO YOU.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
PERSONAL SOVEREIGNTY.big fan of that too."the libertarian principle of self–ownership says that each person enjoys, over himself and his powers, full and exclusive rights of control and use, and therefore owes no service or product to anyone else that he has not contracted to supply"
Yeah, I'm also not a big fan of contracts that violate inalienable rights.
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@HistoryBuff
Also,
AN EAR-LOOP STYLE MASK WILL NOT PROTECT YOU FROM A VIRUS.
IF YOU CAN SMELL THROUGH YOUR MASK, YOU WILL GET INFECTED.
THE PARTICLES YOUR NOSE CAN DETECT ARE MUCH LARGER THAN ANY VIRUS.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
If I had to choose between pro2a and pro4a, I'd probably lean towards pro4a.
I do always appreciate our conversations.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Would you say your more libertarian than you were a few years ago?
Not particularly. I've never met a libertarian with a coherent set of PRIMARY AXIOMS.
I consider myself a LOGICZOMBIE.
I believe in the principle of PERSONAL SOVEREIGNTY. [LINK]
+proHUMAN +proFAMILY
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
The left, for whatever reason, is putting all their money in hopes of electing people who will fix the system the government created. Their savior has been in this system for what, 50 years or more?
"TWO PARTY" = ONE PARTY
The "left" and the "right" BOTH put their hopes in electing people who will "fix" the system. It's the classic HERO MYTH.
You can't expect an individual to fix a SYSTEMIC FAILURE.
So called, "justice reform and removing redundant and useless regulations" is just more window dressing and CORPORATE BOOT LICKING.
The independent/libertarian leaning people need to take control imo.
WE MUST DEMAND RCV.
Is affirmative action and race based programs leveling the playing field?
NO.
I agree the rules should be minimal and apply to everyone equally. But that also requires letting and accepting that people will fail and then we fall into the trap of social programs which treat people differently.
If everyone was guaranteed an inalienable right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" then they could CHOOSE to work VOLUNTARILY.
People could then QUIT WORKING FOR ABUSIVE EMPLOYERS. NO "REGULATION" NEEDED.
Level playing field means not subsidising the rest of the world.
Level playing field means NO MORE CORPORATE WELFARE.
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@HistoryBuff
The point that I'm trying to make is that the same legal principles apply in all states regardless of "how bad" the "plague" might beso your argument is that no matter how bad a global crisis is, the government has no power to protect it's people? That is incredibly dumb. Protecting the people is exactly what a government is for.
THE GOVERNMENT CAN PROTECT US BY INFORMING US.
THE GOVERNMENT CAN PROTECT US BY BUILDING RELIABLE TRUST OVER TIME INSTEAD OF LYING TO US CONSTANTLY.
THE GOVERNMENT CAN PROTECT US BY RESPECTING THE CONSTITUTION AND THE RULE OF LAW AND NOT MAKING UP NEW CAPRICIOUS AND TYRANNICAL "TEMPORARY" "POWERS".
for example,
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@Tradesecret
I prefer not to think of life as a sport.
Please present your preferred metaphor.
As it is someone has to make the rules. And most likely it will be the ones who are dominant.
Just like a sport.
And we all know that there are always going to be dominant people or organisations.
Not necessarily. Are you familiar with HOLACRACY? What about RCV? Or maybe VOLUNTARISM?
The point is - we need to have equality before the law. Same law for EVERYONE. When we start changing the law to make things more equal - it actually causes a greater division and more injustice in the community.
WE MUST DEMAND A LOGICALLY COHERENT SET OF LAWS BASED ON EXPLICIT PRIMARY AXIOMS.
I don't think life is about winning. Life is not a game. It is not a sport. If we were to use a sports illustration - which sport would you propose life is like? Chess - where every piece has the same skill level? Gridiron where every individual is the quarterback. Soccer where every person is the goalkeeper? What sort of game would that be? I suspect it would be very boring and not much fun.
Life is a collection of different games, different jobs, hobbies, friendships, relationships, each with different goals and definitions of "success".
The main "problem" is that some people can participate voluntarily (don't have to work if they don't want to or can quit their job without fear of starvation) AND SOME ARE FORCED TO PARTICIPATE.
The people who are FORCED TO PARTICIPATE are generally relegated to dangerous and or unpleasant jobs low paying jobs with precious few (if any) protections against coercive and tyrannical employment practices.
The progressive movement wants everyone to be the quarterback.
STRAWMAN.
Everyone the star.
STRAWMAN.
Yet anyone who knows about games - realises that the quarterback is only as good as the rest of the team.
I agree.
In any event, I don't desire to be the same as everyone else.
I thought you said something like, "equal under the law" or somesuch.
I simply want the same laws to apply equally to all.
Ok, there it is. Would you care to explain? Do you believe that rich people should be able to get out of jail time by paying multi-million dollar fines?
I find the level playing field a nonsensical progressive - (regressive) fantasy land where in reality only the elite get rich and everyone else just has to suck it up.
Do you find the idea of an inalienable right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" - a regressive fantasy land?
LEVEL PLAYING FIELD = NO COERCION
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
would you prefer to participate in a sport where everyone played by the same rules and all participants had a realistic chance of "winning"?If someone with no legs wants to race you, should your legs be cut off?Do you have a realistic chance of winning against any pro athlete? Why would you think you could win against a pro business person?Some people are better at x than other people, it's impossible and immoral to try and make them equal.as far as rules go I see them much like standards generally speaking, should they be lowered like the soft bigotry of low expectations?I'm not so sure it's the rules that are the problem but rather the loop holes and those not held to those rules, the exceptions. Anyway I think it all starts and is the fault of the people who become multi millionaires "serving the public"Term lengths should have been a thing long, long ago.
Ok, ok, calm down now Harrison Bergeron. [LINK](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBcpuBRUdNs)
"Winning" in this example is the lowest possible bar. The right to LIFE, FOOD, CLOTHING, AND SHELTER.
Nobody should expect to be handed a free super-bowl ring every year just for watching the game. That's not what we're talking about.
IN ORDER TO LIVE IN A VOLUNTARIST SOCIETY (meritocracy), WE MUST MITIGATE ALL FORMS OF COERCION.
THIS WILL NEVER RESULT IN "CHOPPING OFF PEOPLE'S LEGS".
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
he who makes the rules can change the rules. Until profit is taken out of "public service" this is the way it will be. Can you blame a lawyer for finding a loophole in a law? Same thing for businesses, rich people etc.
WE MUST DEMAND A LOGICALLY COHERENT SET OF LAWS BASED ON EXPLICIT PRIMARY AXIOMS.
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@Vader
Thanks for your perspective.
The point that I'm trying to make is that the same legal principles apply in all states regardless of "how bad" the "plague" might be.
They're basically just making up flagrantly UNCONSTITUTIONAL "guidelines" and "ordinances" under the guise of being "temporary" which should be a RED FLAG FOR EVERYONE.
And of course everyone shuts-the-f**k-up because they're scared.
BUT THEY'RE NOT NEARLY SCARED ENOUGH, BECAUSE AN EAR-LOOP STYLE MASK WILL NOT PROTECT YOU FROM A VIRUS.
IF YOU CAN SMELL THROUGH YOUR MASK, YOU WILL GET INFECTED.
THE PARTICLES YOUR NOSE CAN DETECT ARE MUCH LARGER THAN ANY VIRUS.
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Judge Nukes Ill. Lockdown: Pritzker 'Had No Authority' to Restrict Movement and Close Businesses
Illinois Circuit Court Judge Mike McHaney ruled on Thursday that Governor J.B. Pritzker of Illinois had no lawful authority to declare endless disasters past the initial thirty days. Ruling on a lawsuit filed by State House Rep. Darren Bailey (R-Ill.), Judge McHaney wrote, “The court declares that Defendant had no constitutional authority as Governor to restrict a citizen’s movement or activities and/or forcibly close business premises in EO 32.” [LINK](https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/megan-fox/2020/07/02/judge-nukes-ill-lockdown-pritzker-had-no-authority-to-restrict-movement-and-close-businesses-n600395)
SERMON BANNED FROM YOUTUBE
Even if you're not a christian, you should give this video a look.
Near the end of May, the governor of Illinois declared that he was going to charge business owners that opened before he says they can open with misdemeanors, he was going to actually make them into criminals. The next day, one lone county, called Madison county, way out in western Illinois, assembled their county board together, and put out a proclamation declaring that they would NOT obey the governor, and then they would protect the businessmen within their county, that they can open and they'll use all the power at their hands to protect them from the governor and the state. One lone county. The very next day, the Illinois state police put out a press release saying they would NOT arrest anyone who opens their business and charge them as the governor has ordered. And the very next day after that, the governor rescinded his order. Amen. Our founding fathers wanted it, so if one branch of government began to play the tyrant, the other branches of government would resist that branch. It's called "checks and balances".
For example, the governor here in Wisconsin was checked, by our supreme court, and all his tyranny was ended mid May. Even the lame GOP legislature, that brought the court action was chagrined by the court, as the court ended IT ALL. While the GOP legislature, in good GOP fashion, just wanted to be able to regulate the evil [tyranny]. Our state supreme court ENDED IT ALL. So governor Evers [democrat] now has the counties and municipalities doing his dirty work, this is seen and reported in the Wisconsin counties association. A website you should all be familiar with, all these counties coming up with the same idea, very draconian measures regarding the strength they want to give to their "health officials". Including POLICING POWERS. Yeah, they all just came up with that on their own? No, they all work together and you know what, most of these people that are in county government, they're like most Americans. They're only in there for their own self-aggrandizement.
DHS 145 is the applicable statute, 145.06 paragraph 2 states, "The state has to declare the individual contagious by a medical authority", then 145.06 paragraph 4 gives 7 options for the state to pursue if someone is contagious, NONE of them includes forcing them to wear a mask.
AND EVEN OUR CHRISTIAN FRIENDS ARE STARTING TO BECOME CONCERNED.
Skip to 1209 seconds,
Click to watch 43 seconds,
I watch this once a day - Click to watch 3 minutes,
Perhaps anarchy already exists and "THE COMMUNITY" is merely the highest manifestation of organized crime.
Copyright notice: Feel free to copy and paste any LOGICZOMBIE original content (posts and or comments and or replies and logiczombie logo, excluding quoted 3rd party content of course) according to copyleft principles (creative commons zero). In fact, I would prefer that you don't give me "credit" and simply post any choice quotes as your own (to mitigate the genetic fallacy). Sort of a "Creative Commons (-1)".
1,000 HIVE ($200.00 USD) prize pool for amateur writers, artists, and musicians - theme is "Cyber Pirates versus Werewolf Ninjas" - [LINK](https://hive.blog/hive-171744/@logiczombie/1-000-00-hive-art-music-writing-contest-cyber-pirates-versus-werewolf-ninjas)
+proHUMAN +proFAMILY
Your scathing critique is requested.
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@Tradesecret
Why do need to have a level playing field?
Would you prefer to participate in a sport where the dominant teams made the rules of the game and could change the rules of the game to their advantage on a whim?
Or, would you prefer to participate in a sport where everyone played by the same rules and all participants had a realistic chance of "winning"?
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@zedvictor4
One more thing, do you believe eliminating inheritance and nepotism would "LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD"?
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@zedvictor4
Inheritance (assuming you mean material inheritance) and nepotism are inevitable factors of a liberal society, to remove such privileges would be to enforce true socialism,
Do you believe eliminating inheritance and nepotism would "LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD"?
You know, there is no FREE- MARKET without FAIR-PLAY.
Don't you want a true "meritocracy"?
And as far as being "too restrictive" - WE CURRENTLY LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE ANYONE (THIS MEANS YOU) CAN BE HELD INDEFINITELY ON SUSPICION.
BANK ACCOUNTS CAN BE FROZEN ON SUSPICION.
PRESUMED GUILTY.
NO TRIAL OR BAIL UNLESS YOU ARE PART OF THE BIG CLUB.
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@bmdrocks21
They should have basic sovereignty. However, degenerate in that sense is referring to a culture obsessed with sexual promiscuity, no modesty, lust, etc.
What set of principled laws would you propose in order to mitigate such evils?
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@Greyparrot
It's highly unlikely a person would choose to work beyond their means if they could not pass it on to their kids.
Are you suggesting that only businessmen with children are motivated to accumulate wealth and power?
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@bmdrocks21
Honestly, most people would either work less or spend all of their money on garbage...
Blowing their money on "garbage" would be a huge boost to the economy!
Imagine if the government only taxed dead people and left all the living people to spend TAX FREE!!
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@Greyparrot
It's highly unlikely a person would choose to work beyond their means if they could not pass it on to their kids.
Good. That would leave more open positions for the rest of us.
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@bmdrocks21
In other words, "maximizing freedom" for "traditionalists" (and restricting the "freedom" of "non-traditionalists").Not at all. Everyone has the same “freedoms” and limitations applied to them. It is all about what world you would like your children to live in. One in which the family is paramount and drug use, ho-ing around, etc are stigmatized.
Hmm, so I take it you're in favor of banning alcohol, white sugar, caffeine, marijuana, and opioid prescriptions?
Isn't it funny how "drugs" ends up being a catch-all for stuff the "traditionalists" don't use?
Or one in which you can act as degenerate as possible and hope everything works out, and everyone calls you “brave” for doing so.
I'm not sure what you consider "degenerate", and I'd hope you'd agree that every person should have some basic sovereignty over their own body and their own property.
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@zedvictor4
Natural hierarchy is dictated by the capability of the individual.
So, not by inheritance and nepotism?
People are just not equal.
People are generally much more fungible than we commonly believe.
That is why hypothetical (true) socialism is unachievable, and why all attempts at such, have always failed catastrophically.
Including the socialism we find ourselves embroiled in at this very moment?
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@Username
So I think it's safe to conclude that any free society isn't inherently heirarchical, and any heirarchical society isn't inherently free.
A truly voluntary society would require each individual to truly be "secure in their persons".
In order to make this a reality, each person would require enough fertile land to feed themselves, free access to potable water, and true land ownership (no land tax).
If every citizen had these basic necessities, they could work or not work for whomever they wished for as long or as short a time period as they wished.
NO REGULATION REQUIRED.
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@Username
CEOs only have to pay their workers a couple of cents. If the workers don't like it, they can always move to another coal company with similar CEOs and similar conditions.
FREEDOM TO COERCE AND EXPLOIT IS NOT FREEDOM.
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@bmdrocks21
Egalitarianism is based on the lie that everyone is equal and that any difference must be the result of some wrong being done against them.
How about we give people an equal education, and make inheritances and nepotism illegal.
Would that see fair to you?
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@fauxlaw
Do we educate ourselves by our race? Do we build roads according to our age? We've legally segregated ourselves with useless results.
I agree 100%
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@Tradesecret
There are always going to be someone in your life telling you what to do.
Yes, ideally the "leaders" fulfill the will of their constituents (or suffer the consequences).
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@Tradesecret
Egalitarian thought - or Liberal thought - basically comes down to either what do the majority think is good or what do some people in some back room think is good.
That is literally indistinguishable from Conservative thought - or Libertarian thought.
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@bmdrocks21
We aren’t all about maximizing freedom as libertarians are. We are generally for maximizing freedom in ways that don’t conflict with traditional social values while still maintaining order
In other words, "maximizing freedom" for "traditionalists" (and restricting the "freedom" of "non-traditionalists").
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@bmdrocks21
Closing those disparities almost always involves infringing on another’s freedom.
FREEDOM AND EQUALITY ARE INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL.
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@Tradesecret
I oppose Marxism and Anarchism.
Probably I fit more within the Libertarian definition of politics - yet I take the view it is neither LEFT nor RIGHT.
What's the difference between anarchism and libertarianism?
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@simplybeourselves
The all have the same options but it's not relevant to the matter of determinism vs libertarian free will.
Please detail what you consider "the salient facts".
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@Greyparrot
I'm not sure if calling another member a "troll" is considered an "ad hominem attack" (name calling).
Perhaps you're speaking of "troll" in some specifically technical sense?
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@Greyparrot
From your second link,
Kevin Clinesmith plans to admit to one charge of altering an email to another official in 2017 that said Page wasn't a previous government source, when he had been one.
This appears to be a technical foul by an individual.
Do you have any evidence of a "conspiracy"?
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@Greyparrot
Thanks for posting the links.
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@HistoryBuff
Well stated.
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