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@ADreamOfLiberty
If the goal is for the group to win, then of course Sun Tzu would ask for volunteers to pick up the sword.
bingo
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@Best.Korea
reducing risk is critical to long-term survivalSometimes, yes, for an individual.
the example in the vid refers to blackrock's aladdin system
which is very specifically a risk avoidance investment platform
and it is now the largest investment company on the planet
by avoiding risk
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@Best.Korea
Its kinda like this: those who dont take risks will never achieve any greatness.
not true
often people are born into greatness
or specifically decide to take the path of least resistance
like marvin minsky
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@Best.Korea
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@RaymondSheen
P1: It is reasonable/rational to withhold belief in an unfalsifiable entity.P2: God is an unfalsifiable entity.P3: Atheists withhold belief in God.C: It is reasonable/rational to be atheist.I agree completely.
debate over
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@MAV99
read the posts numbered 19, 23, 24, 30 and 36
36I am not using them interchangably.Life: self-Movement of some sort.Soul: Principle of that movement. Or if you want: the thing that causes the movement.
soul is not a thing
soul is a principle
merely and abstract concept
like a law of nature
so to you it is merely a description of a process
and not a source of anything in and of itself
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@MAV99
I agree. But the point is that they are not physical which is how you have said we are parts of god
what are you talking about ?
when i use the term "everything" do you not understand what that means ?
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@MAV99
And if someone asks me what it was,I answer "A chair"Not "a thing functioning as a platform for your butt."
it's only a chair if it performs the function of a chair
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@Amber
You can't prove me wrong,
because you haven't rigorously defined your claim
making undefined or underdefined, unfalsifiable statements is not something to be proud of
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@Amber
Quoting out of context destroying the analogy's intent and purpose, along with this last banal response.Clearly you lack the same temperament
we're clearly dealing with a genius here
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@Double_R
You haven't made a claim for me to accept, reject, or distort except for your mischaracterization of what atheism is, which is why I'm correcting it (or trying to anyway). We can certainly get into the many claims theists have presented throughout the ages but that would seem to be a deflection from the topic.
well stated
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@RaymondSheen
Okay. Can science falsify the Biblical God hypothesis by evidence? If so, how, if not why?
which flavor of biblical god hypothesis are you specifically talking about
it is obviously impossible to expose logical contradictions for undefined or underdefined (unfalsifiable) claims
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@RaymondSheen
I agree completely.Now what about the gods. Atheism is defined as disbelief in the existence of God or gods. We've covered and agree upon God, now what about gods. Obviously gods in general? None specified.
do you understand the difference between the logical operation of (OR) relative to the logical operation of (AND) ?
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@RaymondSheen
You say, for example, that some atheists wouldn't have a problem with the big bang as a god, but if that's true it's only because the term doesn't mean anything to them. It isn't dependent upon ignorance beyond the surface because if you educated them, they either wouldn't accept it or it wouldn't be meaningless to them.
ooooooh
i only disagree with you because i don't UNDERstand you ?
i could say the exact same thing about you
how does this qualify as an "argument" ?
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@RaymondSheen
because you conflate, as I've said repeatedly, God and gods.
what in the hell are you talking about ?
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@RaymondSheen
So, Jehovah isn't, according to the Bible, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, or omnibenovolent in the way theology tends to present him.
ok, can you distill what you consider the essential characteristics of your version of jehovah ?
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@RaymondSheen
I'll ask you again to define the theistic God. Not that I disagree, just for the sake of argument.
a theistic god is a deity believed in by followers of a religion who is involved in the world and interacts with humans
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@Sidewalker
Theism is not logically coercive, it’s a matter of faith,
debate over
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@RaymondSheen
No, it would be like saying a doctor has to be defined by some arbitrary adherence
we're not talking about defining someone or something by what they ARE
we're talking about defining someone or something by what they are NOT
an elephant is NOT A THEIST
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@Sidewalker
LOL, another idiot that came to a debate site looking for an echo chamber.
bingo
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@Amber
That's nothing short of an ignoratio elenchi circular argument that is tantamount to an appeal to mockery.You clearly lack the temperament required of mature civil discourse. Why are you even here, other than the obvious (trolling)!?!
wow
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@Amber
That's like saying just leave the house invader alone and let them take what they want and let them leave.
so now you're claiming that trans people are just as dangerous as literal psychopaths ?
your true colors finally emerge
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@RaymondSheen
I'm also not going to go on a forum and argue Democrat / Republican or Labor / Conservative or whatever you happen to argue about in politics. I consider that stupid.
sure, do whatever you want
but rhetoric becomes policy
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@RaymondSheen
You're wasting your time if you think you can prove or disprove anything to someone with a contrary ideology. First of all, who cares?
clearly you find this entertaining
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@RaymondSheen
I always thought the cry of "burden of proof" was a fake cop out myself.
are you familiar with formal debate formats ?
it's like a sport
one side attacks
the other defends
The burden of proof lies with the person making the truth claim.
whoever has BOP is the defender
every formal debate declares BEFORE the debate, which side has BOP
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@RaymondSheen
It isn't the responsiblitity to prove to someone you saw a ghost if they refuse to believe ghosts exist.
sure, probably not a general responsibility, like, it's not their duty to their family or to their state i guess unless the ghost told them, you know like a god, to "spread the good news to the world" or something ridiculous like that
responsibility in this case is more like the idea of a responsibility to yourself
(IFF) you want someone to believe you saw a ghost (THEN) it is your own responsibility to convince someone
you can't really blame anyone for remaining UNconvinced
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@Sidewalker
Is it your contention that Theism is not a reasonable or rational position to take?
some flavors of theism are reasonable (based on reason) and some are not
which specific theism are you prepared to defend ?
you said giant-sky-daddy-grandpa is NOT what you're prepared to defend
ok, great
do you want to go down the list and detail all the versions you are NOT prepared to defend ?
or can we just skip to the part where you indicate the version(s) you ARE prepared to defend ?
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@MAV99
Invalid question with invalid, unproven, unexplained points.
JUST SAY "SOUL" IS UNEXPLAINABLE
SINCE THAT'S YOUR ANSWER ANYWAY
WHY EVEN BOTHER TALKING ABOUT IT
IF YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN ANYTHING
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@RaymondSheen
If the same government says I have to go to war and kill others for any reason or abort my firstborn child I say, no.
ok, but if the book of NANABOZHO demands that non-believers be destroyed, would that maybe get your attention ?
do you think maybe at that point NANABOZHO might warrant some attention ?
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@RaymondSheen
e because they removed the ap
you say: everything is a god and if you believe in something, anything really, then you can't be an atheist
i say: this has nothing to do with people who actually call themselves atheists because atheists simply lack belief in the demonstrable POWER of THEISTIC GOD(S)
i've never met an atheist who claimed to not believe in money or statues or books or whatever the hell you think qualifies as a "god" in your own mind
atheists are not a monolith, they believe many different things for many different reasons
just like theists or anyone else
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@Stephen
Well you wouldn't believe it if you are a theist because you are of the misguided believe that to take this stance allows you relieve yourself of the burden of proof. Well it doesn't! And it is not nonsense at all.It is the theist that makes the claim for the existence of a all singing all dancing god, as he also claims the bible is the true and faultless word of the god he believes in.
well stated
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@Sidewalker
It is reasonable/rational to be theist.Anybody want to debate this?
some are and some are not
which specific flavor of theism are you prepared to defend ?
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@Sidewalker
Nope, and I don't believe this nonsense that the Theist has a "burden of proof" that somehow requires them to EXPLAIN WHY they do believe.That's not a thing.
so, if someone tells you they were personally abducted by spacealiens
would you believe them ?
would you simply take them at their word ?
or would you maybe perhaps have a few questions ?
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@MAV99
So we are all "physically part of god"What about virtue which is not physical? Or numbers? Or purpose?Unless you want to say those do not exist.
i'm pretty sure the word "everything" includes abstract concepts
for example
your ideas are part of you
but your ideas are not the whole of you
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@MAV99
I could use a nail gun. does not mean it is a hammer.
there is more than one way to drive a nail into wood
one way is to hammer it in with a hammer
but that is not the ONLY method
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@MAV99
Care to give a demonstration as to why functionality is the same whatness?
a chair that is impractical to sit in no longer serves the function of a chair
at that point it becomes a sculpture that may or may not resemble a chair
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@MAV99
You see my point?
yeah, you are incapable of describing its function
a hammer can be nearly any shape or size or material
the key to identifying a hammer
is by testing its ability to drive a nail into wood
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@ADreamOfLiberty
This thread reminds me of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU8IJE7Vthk
are you the one trying to rigorously define terms ?
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@MAV99
And what do you mean by "part of" there are different ways to be a part of something.
in the same way one of your skin cells is part of you
but it is not the whole of you
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@RaymondSheen
the claims and definitions of YHWH are falsifiable with LOGICDemonstrate, please? In another thread if you wish or this one.
sure, do you think it's fair to say the key claims of YHWH include the claim that YHWH is omnipotent omniscient and the creator of all things (OOC) ?
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@7000series
The year is 3500.Humanity is dead.Eventually, aliens find our planet. . .What could they learn about our species?What will remain of it?
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@MAV99
what is the point of distinguishing TERMINOLOGY if the two are functionally identical ?Because a thing is not what it does.Unless you care to prove to me that a thing is what it does, This principle stands.
how do you describe a hammer ?
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@MAV99
energy cannot be created or destroyedit is a fundamental principle known as the law of conservation of energyOk. Explain what you mean here.Because you still ultimately have not answered the contradiction that a thing as a whole is causing itself, which is impossible.
(IFF) OOC (THEN) everything that exists is part of OOC
in the same way one of your skin cells is part of you without being the whole you
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@Deb-8-a-bull
WANTED .I buy , sell and trade Souls .Will Pay cash $$$$$$$$$$$$.Any condition.PM me.
LMFAo WHAT
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@MAV99
I am not the sum total of my influences.
ok
solve for x
you are the sum of your biology + experience + x
tell me what you think x might be
and don't say "soul"
unless you're ready to explain how your "soul" makes decisions that are not influenced by your "soul's" metabiology + experience
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@Mopac
Before "YHWH" there was "no-thing".
After "YHWH" made everything, there was "good" and "evil".
Who made "evil"?
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@cristo71
P1: It is reasonable/rational to withhold belief in an unfalsifiable entity.P2: God is an unfalsifiable entity.P3: Atheists withhold belief in God.C: It is reasonable/rational to be atheist.
impressive
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@RaymondSheen
2. Atheism, at least militant, is a form of theism. A position of a theological nature, antithesis of theism, but theological nonetheless.
that would be like claiming that NOT being a doctor is a medical position
a dog is an atheist, that doesn't mean that a dog fabricates "a theological position"
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@Sidewalker
think of it this waydo you believe NANABOZHO is the one true creator of all things ?why not ?are you perhaps UNconvinced ?or are you just an evil mean spiteful person who hates NANABOZHO ?have you spent your entire life thinking about how NANABOZHO can not possibly exist ?or do you rather simply not care if NANABOZHO is real or not ?furthermore,if someone told you that all morality and goodness can only come from NANABOZHO and without NANABOZHO the world would be pure chaoswould you think that person is probably insane ?That is quite the non-sequitur, what is the point of this mess, and what does it have to do with the subject of Burden of Proof.
the "burden of proof" is quite obviously on the claim that NANABOZHO is the one true creator god
do you believe NANABOZHO is the one true creator god ?
are you perhaps UNconvinced ?
or do you think that people who DON'T believe in NANABOZHO have a "burden of proof" that somehow requires them to EXPLAIN WHY they don't believe in NANABOZHO ?
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@RaymondSheen
Address these: If your only response is it's irrelevant, that's okay, but give me something.1. A god can be anything or anyone.2. God is a term for a specific deity in occidental culture. Jehovah. Atheism rejects that specific God's existence. A completely rational position.3. Atheism in general, also rejects the literal existence of all other gods. If a god can be extant how can an atheist reject its existence?
(1) sure, but this broadest of all possible definitions is NOT the one that most (if any) atheists are subscribed to
(2) the term "rejects" is a loaded term - remains UNconvinced is more accurate
(3) depending on which specific definition of "god(s)" the speaker and the audience are entertaining, "god(s)" may be either unfalsifiable or logically incoherent - if a definition of "god(s)" has sufficient empirical evidence, for instance if one were to rename "the big bang" "god" then, in my experience, the atheist would explain that they are not an atheist in that specific case
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