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@RaymondSheen
I don't think I quite understand your point with the bigfoot etc. references.
an atheist thinks about god(s) the same way you think about bigfootspacealienslochnessmonsters
sure
you can't "prove they don't exist" - the claims are mostly "unfalsifiable" (although, with a rigorous definition, there might be provably false)
but you also don't spend any of your time hunting for them
and you probably don't take the numerous claims of "eye witnesses" very seriously
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@RaymondSheen
I've done it and I disagree that a variety of answers are given. That just isn't my extensive experience.
fair point, my sample is clearly different than yours
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@RaymondSheen
However, from this day on I will speak out against - this, this, this - myth, this fable in the name of almighty science! Notice how I do so in abject ignorance? Mocking atheism to make a point.)
perhaps if 100% of your government officials told you they worship NANABOZHO and the teachings of NANABOZHO are the guiding principle of their moral compass
then you might be at least slightly concerned
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@RaymondSheen
YHWH of the Hebrew/Aramaic and Christian Greek scriptures, Jehovah is supernatural and therefore not falsifiable.
the claims and definitions of YHWH are falsifiable with LOGIC
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@RaymondSheen
it is really only about a sociopolitical frustration of a minority (atheist, especially militant atheists) in a quasi-theocratic state.
we seem to be in general agreement on this particular point
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@MAV99
I have. With examples. I am sorry if you can not see it.
you've made unsupported assertions using undefined terms
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@MAV99
Soul: Principle of that movement. Or if you want: the thing that causes the movement.
ok, great
is your soul influenced by circumstances ?
does your soul respond to emergencies for example ?
does your soul birth motives that are based on your childhood experiences and perhaps some training or education you've inculcated ?
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@Greyparrot
Lol, so through context magic, one is a crime and one is not?
you'll love this
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@RaymondSheen
By who? Irrelevant. Were the worshipers of Dagon, Molech, Baal, Ashtoreth etc. atheists? No.
for example,
Early Christians were atheists! At least, that’s how some people of the time viewed them in the earliest centuries, and it’s not difficult to see why. Most importantly, they refused to worship the traditional gods. But also, judged by Roman-era criteria, they didn’t even seem to practice a recognizable form of religion.
it's a little weird that you want to apply the BROADEST POSSIBLE definition to "god(s)"
but you insist on the most specific and inflexible definition of "atheist"
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@RaymondSheen
they will tell you that their atheism is definitely not a CLAIM that no possible definitions of god(s) could ever qualify as extant.That doesn't even make sense to me. Could you explain?
for example
i've had conversations with atheists who easily admit that if you redefine something like "the big bang"
if you decide to call "the big bang" = "god"
then sure, "the big bang" has enough evidence to qualify as extant
and if you want to call it "god" or whatever
that's really not a big deal
and it doesn't really change anything in the grand scope
and then they'll clarify, that they are an "atheist" specifically relative to theistic versions of gods that demand humans obey them
in other words,
NOT a THEIST
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@RaymondSheen
1. A god is anything that is venerated. The Hebrew word el, translated god, comes from a root word that means mighty/strong.2. You are conflating all gods with "God" of the Bible. Atheism lacks belief in God and gods - who are the gods? The Bible says have no other gods before me. Who are the gods? The Bible says Satan, Moses, Jesus, the judges of Israel, the Summerian King Tammuz (Nimrod) were gods. You don't get to limit the definition to "Supernatural, omni etc. Bible sky magician." That's stupid.3. The Bible says to the Egyptians, Pharoahs were gods. I.e. they were gods. God simply means venerated.4. A god doesn't need to exist be a god so saying gods don't exist is stupid. Because a) they don't have to and b) many of them do.5. People calling themselves atheist are claiming statues aren't gods. They're wrong.5. You deny the dictionary definition of the word god in order to rationalize your ignorance of the thing you claim doesn't exist in the name of science which can't determine whether it does or not.
perhaps you aren't aware of how dictionary definitions are determined
a lexicographer surveys editors of newspapers and magazines
and then documents the results
this is why definitions evolve over time
a dictionary is just a survey
it's not written in stone by the hand of god
it is not authoritative, it is merely designed to be generally informative
now
if you really want to know what an atheist thinks "a god" is, try asking a few atheists, you're likely to get a variety of answers
but i've never encountered anyone who denies the concept of "a god" exists in the same way that bigfootspacealienslochnessmonsters exists, purely in the abstract
are you perhaps an "atheist" relative to bigfootspacealienslochnessmonsters ?
do you spend even the slightest fraction of your obviously impressive brain-power contemplating the immense significance of bigfootspacealienslochnessmonsters ?
do you even care if bigfootspacealienslochnessmonsters exist as a concrete noun or not ?
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@FLRW
He accomplished nothing afterwards.
which simply proves how intelligent they really are
Russian mathematician Grigori Perelman refused the million-dollar Millennium Prize for solving the Poincaré conjecture.
Girgori Yakovlevish Perelman, the 4th smartest person alive, spends his time in a field picking mushrooms. When he could be a high-paid professor at Harvard or Cambridge (he did have his choice)
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@Sidewalker
There are two assertions most atheists make.1) The Burden of Proof is on the Theist.2) Assertion number 1 is not an assertion.
think of it this way
do you believe NANABOZHO is the one true creator of all things ?
why not ?
are you perhaps UNconvinced ?
or are you just an evil mean spiteful person who hates NANABOZHO ?
have you spent your entire life thinking about how NANABOZHO can not possibly exist ?
or do you rather simply not care if NANABOZHO is real or not ?
furthermore,
if someone told you that all morality and goodness can only come from NANABOZHO and without NANABOZHO the world would be pure chaos
would you think that person is probably insane ?
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@MAV99
a deist is functionally indistinguishable from an atheistWe are not talking about what they do. We are talking about what they are.
so, you're harping at a distinction without a difference ?
what is the point of distinguishing TERMINOLOGY if the two are functionally identical ?
"Baruch Spinoza was not an atheist in the modern meaning of the word. He believed in the existence of a perfectly logical god, but not in the way traditional religions present him/her. He was called an atheist in his lifetime because then the term meant someone who does not believe in the orthodox view of God."
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@MAV99
A blatant contradiction. I am not buying it. You will have to do better than that.
energy cannot be created or destroyed
it is a fundamental principle known as the law of conservation of energy
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@Sidewalker
It would be fair to say that the existence of transgender people has caused a severe dysphoria among MAGA people.
exactly
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@MAV99
Maybe try seeing the logic behind it, instead of looking at them so superficially.
try presenting the logic
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@RaymondSheen
Do atheists believe or lack belief in Pharaohs?
you've got to be joking
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@RaymondSheen
In simple terms, then, tell me exactly what a god is and what veneration means. Then think money.
omniscient omnipotent creator of all things = money ?
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@RaymondSheen
Uh - anyway - I didn't say anything about "ghosts and goblins, aliensbigfootlochness" and I pointed out that a god doesn't have to exist. Giving the examples of Frodo Baggins and the Shinto goddess Amaterasu. Many of the Shinto gods were fictional creations concocted to instruct Japanes youth in the royally commissioned Nihongi and Kojiki. They weren't presented as literal existing. It's like the gods of luck.
we both know that people who call themselves atheists are not claiming that statues don't exist
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@RaymondSheen
atheism is a lack of theological beliefatheists are UNconvinced of any specific theological claimsThat isn't true, and it doesn't even make sense. Atheism is the theological belief that God and gods don't exist. It's irrelevant because they (gods) don't have to exist, many gods I've just proven to exist and uh, there was something else but I've forgotten what it was. Oh, saying they are unconvinced is only saying they are idiots, and God knows we wouldn't want to do that.
maybe try asking a few actual people who actually call themselves atheists
they will tell you that their atheism is definitely not a CLAIM that no possible definitions of god(s) could ever qualify as extant
it is simply a lack of belief in any specific god that cares about what humans do
for example
spinoza wrote a logical proof of god and spinoza's god certainly exists by definition alone
but since spinoza's definition of god didn't match the general common colloquial definition of YHWH
he was declared an atheist
because he didn't believe in the "one-true-god"
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@Mall
Do atheists believe no gods exists?
an atheist is merely UNconvinced by any theistic claims
in simple terms
an atheist is NOT a theist
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@MAV99
That means any activity of my life, including nutrition of my body, is actuated by my soul.
do souls leave the body and go places like heaven ?
or are you intentionally confusing the conversation by using the words "life" and "soul" interchangeably ?
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@MAV99
How does that definition of an atheist fit to a deist?
a deist is functionally indistinguishable from an atheist
they don't pray
they don't worship
they don't perform rituals
also, you're overlooking the implication that the word "god" means omniscient omnipotent creator YHWH to almost everyone raised in christian societies
i could say "i worship NANABOZHO, the native american creation god" - and christians would still call me an atheist because i don't believe in their version of god and they don't believe NANABOZHO is real, because they don't believe any other gods are real (YHWH is the only god that qualifies as a god in their minds)
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@MAV99
every extant thing must logically be part of OOCbut each part is not the wholein the same way that your finger is part of your body, but your finger is not your whole bodyAnd how does this not contradict you if then syllogism?
it's pretty simple
everything taken all together = ooc
each individual thing = part of ooc
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@Best.Korea
So can you tell us how corporal punishment helps trans children?Its a simple question, so I hope you can answer it.
exactly
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@Mall
People are jumping to defend transgender folks here and nobody's attacking them in this topic. Not that I know of anyway.
you're the one who asked
"how do you solve the issue of (gender) dysphoria ?"
that's like asking
"how do you solve the issue of homosexuality ?"
or
"how do you solve the issue of gypsies ?"
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@Mall
I'm asking about the dysphoria. Are you encouraging that no help is to be given to those that seek it in ridding of the problem?
i already answered that question
if they want help they should get help, just like anyone else
if they don't want help, leave them the fuck alone
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@Amber
What does a woman wearing men's clothing have to do with gender identity/dysphoria disorder (transgender ideology)?Nothing.
ok, i thought one of the key "problems" with the trans people
was men wearing dresses and going into the "wrong" bathroom
what do you mean by "ZERO TOLERANCE" then ?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I suggest we outlaw outlawing assertions because some people claim that those assertions are dangerous to people who suffer from gender dysphoria. On paper this is already law (see 1st amendment), but you know there are a lot of people who don't let something like the bill of rights stop them; and of course there are all the other anglophone countries.
ok, so you're against outlawing trans people
that's great news
do you think we should just leave them alone and treat them like everyone else ?
or do you think we need some new laws to "deal" with the "problem" ?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Same reason any cult bothers people. They think it steals people's purpose and happiness and replaces it with false hopes and lies.
you must hate capitalism
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@Best.Korea
and they cant make sense out of it and just want the feelings to go away.
instead of adapting to your environment
just force your environment to conform to your expectation
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@RaymondSheen
If it is true, and it is, that a god can be anything or anyone,
ok, you win because atheists don't believe in anything or anyone
WTF
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@RaymondSheen
All humans are not born with a disbelief in anything.
atheism is a lack of theological belief
atheists are UNconvinced of any specific theological claims
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@Double_R
Atheism is the rejection of theistic claims. The reason for that rejection varies, but in most cases it’s due to the lack of evidence, which is the logical reason to deny any claim.
UNconvinced of any specific theological claim
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@RaymondSheen
Thirdly, as mentioned above one can believe and even trust in a God and still be atheist if they don't venerate said God. I'm apolitical. That doesn't mean "disbelief in the existence of King or kings," it means I'm without politics.
bingo
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@RaymondSheen
Atheists don't have evidence they have a militant sociopolitical frustration in a quasi-theistic culture.
wrong.
atheists are merely UNconvinced of any specific theological claims
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@RaymondSheen
logic tells us that any two substances that CAN interact in any waymust necessarily maintain a FUNDAMENTAL similaritytherefore, MONISMExplain? What does that have to do with - anything?
omniscient omnipotent creator of all things is the most common definition of "god" i've encountered in these endless debates about "atheism"
OOC however, logically precludes the "independent" existence of anything else - - everything is and must be by definition part of the OOC
therefore, MONISM
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@RaymondSheen
atheism is merely a lack of theological beliefatheists are merely unconvinced by any specific theistic claimOkay. Here is a theistic claim: a god is by definition "an image, idol, animal, or other object worshiped as divine or symbolizing a god; an adored, admired, or influential person." How can an atheist remain unconvinced by the claim that the Christian cross is a god that exists?
physical images and statues of gods ghosts and goblins, aliensbigfootlochness obviously exist
this is the most ridiculous straw-man argument i've ever seen in my life
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@ADreamOfLiberty
saying that jesus loves me and takes a personal interest in my life is also delusionYes, and a dangerous one when people start trying to criminalize anyone who denies it.
are you suggesting we should outlaw gender dysphoria ?
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@Mall
This is not what I'm asking. The question is about getting rid of dysphoria. Are you encouraging not to help people that don't want the dysphoria that are seeking the help ?Drop the bias and address this.
i already answered this
(IFF) someone wants help or therapy or something (THEN) they should be free to seek help or therapy or something
HOWEVER,
it is a bit ridiculous to ASSUME that every single person who is trans thinks it's some sort of major problem that must be solved
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@ADreamOfLiberty
the issue was created to get attention. It worked,i guess that means you're playing right into their handsYou're here too.
of course i am
because i don't understand why any of this bothers people so much
i certainly see no danger in promoting the "trans agenda"
don't knock it till you've tried it
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@ADreamOfLiberty
you're arguing that there will be an apocalypse of suicides if we don't get this gender identity thing "under control" ?No
what was the point you were trying to make regarding suicides and the holocaust ?
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@MAV99
It is a bad philosophy to deny common sense.
it is a bad philosophy to choose colloquial explanations over logical explanations
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@MAV99
When you produce a concept in your soul, you have an appetite that tends toward this concept.
so, does your soul get pregnant and then spontaneously births a "concept" ?
it sounds like this is still part of the universal causal chain
does god touch your soul to produce a "concept" ?
does your mind initiate this process ?
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@MAV99
What distinguishes me from your dog is that I can reason and have a deeper understanding of things and choose freely whether to love them or not. Your dog cannot do that. It only acts on its instincts.
i think you're conflating a prefrontal cortex with what you're calling a soul
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@MAV99
Your dog does, but it is not the same type of soul as mine.
how do you know this ?
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@MAV99
Your car does not have a soul. Is your car living by itself? Does your car feed itself?
so now souls require food ?
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