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@oromagi
Meaning
Gottlob Frege argued that reference cannot be treated as identical with meaning: "Hesperus" (an ancient Greek name for the evening star) and "Phosphorus" (an ancient Greek name for the morning star) both refer to Venus, but the astronomical fact that '"Hesperus" is "Phosphorus"' can still be informative, even if the "meanings" of "Hesperus" and "Phosphorus" are already known. This problem led Frege to distinguish between the sense and reference of a word. Some cases seem to be too complicated to be classified within this framework; the acceptance of the notion of secondary reference may be necessary to fill the gap. See also Opaque context.
Gottlob Frege argued that reference cannot be treated as identical with meaning: "Hesperus" (an ancient Greek name for the evening star) and "Phosphorus" (an ancient Greek name for the morning star) both refer to Venus, but the astronomical fact that '"Hesperus" is "Phosphorus"' can still be informative, even if the "meanings" of "Hesperus" and "Phosphorus" are already known. This problem led Frege to distinguish between the sense and reference of a word. Some cases seem to be too complicated to be classified within this framework; the acceptance of the notion of secondary reference may be necessary to fill the gap. See also Opaque context.
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@oromagi
the campaign’s push to remove proposed language from the 2016 Republican platform that called for giving weapons to Ukraine
i see
now anyone who is "anti-war" is de facto "pro-russia"
isn't that like calling the hippies "pro-viet-cong"
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@oromagi
"sensitive information on polling and campaign strategy"
good grief
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@oromagi
- POST#164 "if you don't see how every single conversation you've ever had is "just a semantic game" then i have no idea what you think language is"
- So- clearly 3RU7AL does not understand the meaning of SEMANTICS
Semantics (from Ancient Greek: σημαντικός sēmantikós, "significant")[a][1] is the study of reference, meaning, or truth. The term can be used to refer to subfields of several distinct disciplines, including philosophy, linguistics and computer science.
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@Athias
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@Reece101
and they can't be expressed with numbersWell yes they can. They can also be expressed with geometry in the form of words, which we’ve been discussing.
words CAN BE represented with numbers
but that doesn't mean words ARE numbers
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@Ramshutu
Insulin is expensive because of the free market - there’s no onerous regulation: no new or unreasonable huge hurdles or steps that require pharmaceutical companies to spend much more - it’s not regulation causing the issues at all - this would be a lie.
insulin is expensive because of corporate lobbying to restrict competition
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@Greyparrot
American Made, Cheaper Abroad: The Conclusion – 76% Savings Abroad!
But so many FDA-approved drugs currently sold in U.S. pharmacies are imported – 40% according to the FDA – and many are generics. As our vice president Gabriel Levitt said, “We looked only at brand name medications manufactured in the U.S., not because they’re any safer than those made elsewhere, but because we found it so compelling that the same drugs made here are about 76% less expensive abroad.” [**]
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@Greyparrot
California to manufacture its own insulin, Newsom says [**]
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@Danielle
What if Democrats started doing it? (Pointing out disinformation campaigns to influence elections doesn't count.)
Biden says elections might not be legitimate if reform bills aren’t passed [**]
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@Reece101
That it gave rise to civilisation and wellbeing thereof, from sewage to space exploration.Or is this a trick question?
industrial pollution apparently doesn't factor into your equations
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@Reece101
how did humans even survive before formal mathematics ?Barely.
can you construct a coherent moral framework based purely on mathematics ?
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@Polytheist-Witch
You're arguing over the fact that I said the word god without theist before it, that's the most f****** stupid thing I've ever seen. Believe It or not people actually understand that atheists don't believe in any God. Quit being condescending. You're just arguing now to look right when all you do is look a jerk.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
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@Greyparrot
Canadian insulin is 10 times cheaper than American insulin riddled with government mandates in the name of "safety"
When inventor Frederick Banting discovered insulin in 1923, he refused to put his name on the patent. He felt it was unethical for a doctor to profit from a discovery that would save lives. Banting’s co-inventors, James Collip and Charles Best, sold the insulin patent to the University of Toronto for a mere $1. They wanted everyone who needed their medication to be able to afford it.
The 3 main reasons cited by pharmaceutical companies for the high cost of new prescription drugs do not apply to insulin. First, the “high cost of development” is not relevant for a drug that is more than 100 years old; [**]
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@Ramshutu
The Brave Republicans showed - again - how they are fighting for the little guy - by voting to strip out a cap on insulin prices in private insurance.I guess $35/month insulin costs just make those poor people lazy.
exactly
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@Polytheist-Witch
Your just being a jerk.
by asking for definitions ?
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@Reece101
The brains ability to calculate the world around us predates humanity.math is not emotionally meaningfulTo how you perceive it perhaps.
how did humans even survive before formal mathematics ?
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@Reece101
The brains ability to calculate the world around us predates humanity.
math is not emotionally meaningful
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@TWS1405
Well, I am new here. I do not know all your rules and/or expectations.
don't let oro pretend they are the one true arbiter of debateart culture
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@Polytheist-Witch
If atheism is simply a lack of belief in any god(s) existence then the definition of theism is simply a belief in a god(s) existence. No reason to put any more qualifiers on other than to argue.
a lack of belief in any THEISTIC god(s)
it's in the word itself
a-THEIST
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@Reece101
and they can't be expressed with numbersWell yes they can. They can also be expressed with geometry in the form of words, which we’ve been discussing.
language predates writing
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@Athias
For me, the "difference" is negligible. I'm all for maintaining standards consistently. With that said, experiencing existence is an epistemological hodgepodge, where "concept" provides meaning to that which one would consider "concrete," and the subject of ontology can be indexed to Merriam-Webster.
sure, but you can't be surprised when you say "zeus is real"
and people think you believe in zeus
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@Reece101
Those emotions aren’t coming from language.
and they can't be expressed with numbers
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@Dr.Franklin
Simple misinterpretation. The "black-headed" ones probably means hair, otherwise they would just be "black".The Sumerians came from the Northeast after the younger dryas event. And were not black
would you personally consider these people "white" ?
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@Reece101
Language conveys information regardless how little you squeeze out of it. Whether it’s finger-painting or learning to spell.
sure
but there is an important difference between hollow mathematical precision
and deep emotional meaningfulness
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@Reece101
imagine a poem written without geometrywhat poems include geometry ?All written language is geometric regardless of format.
in the same way a child's finger-painting is "geometry"
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@TWS1405
Then there are a lot of blind beholders out there that know not of physical beauty.
everyone who disagrees with you is either, disingenuous, intellectually and or morally blind, purely and irrevocably dense, or pure evilz
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@Athias
I accept that Zeus exists
i accept that THE CONCEPT OF zeus "exists" (in an abstract and NOT in a concrete sense)
personally, i would never say "zeus exists" without some very explicit (non-standard) definitions
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@Reece101
One simple example is geometry.
imagine a poem written without geometry
what poems include geometry ?
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@Reece101
imagine a "holy text" written exclusively with numbersImagine any text written without mathematical principles. It’s impossible, unless you’re ignorant.
please explain
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@Athias
for example,
in another thread
someone demanded a "YES" or "NO" answer to the question,
"are all mexicans xenophobic ?"
and i tried to explain
that a simple "YES" is "not true"
and likewise, a simple "NO" is also "not true"
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@Athias
nopei do not deny the POSSIBILITY that something that matches the description of "bigfoot" may possibly "exist"I know. I'm pointing out that the measures on which you based your positive beliefs "excludes," and thereby create an active "disbelief" in all which fall short of said measures.
that's the entire point of this thread
here's another example,
i once read that a "scientist" does NOT believe in intelligent extra-terrestrial life
and the interviewer asked, "so, does that mean you DON'T believe in intelligent extra-terrestrial life ?"
"no." the "scientist" responded
"I do NOT deny that intelligent extra-terrestrial life MAY exist" they explained
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@Athias
for example, because you do not adopt a positive belief in Bigfoot, that necessarily suggests that you've adopted a positive belief in Bigfoot's existence being falsfiable. It would necessarily suggest however that whatever measures you use in maintaining and gauging your "positive beliefs" would produce an active belief against all which fall short of said measures
nope
i do not deny the POSSIBILITY that something that matches the description of "bigfoot" may possibly "exist"
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@Athias
non-belief is the obvious default state of mind
failure to be convinced
does not constitute a "rejection" of proposition A
and does not constitute an "acceptance" of proposition B
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@Athias
What distinctions do you draw between accepting proposition A and not accepting proposition B, i.e. "receiving as valid"?
i'm illustrating that one can "not accept" BOTH proposition A and proposition B
and continue their life
as they were already
which is "without belief" in proposition A
which is also "de facto" "as-if" proposition B "is considered true"
without "accepting" proposition B
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@Reece101
imagine a "holy text" written exclusively with numbers
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@Reece101
cyclical
ˈsɪklɪk(ə)l
adjective
occurring in cycles; recurrent.
occurring in cycles; recurrent.
in other words, NOT constant and immutable
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@ebuc
meaningful language appears cyclical
younger generations always want to create new words and phrases to distinguish themselves
meaningless language (mathematics) is much more stable, but still changes over time
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@ebuc
obstruction of an official proceedingYour going nutty{ lame brain } again 3Ru. Ever since covid youve gone more and more lame brain on us by supporting ideas like ...oh it was just protesters doing a self-guided tour of white house...
obstruction of an official proceeding
is the crime that resulted in an actual conviction
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@Double_R
So setting them aside, this whole "no one has been charged for inserection"
that's not my claim
"no one has been CONVICTED of insurrection"
is much more to-the-point
anyone can be "suspected of" and anyone can be "charged with" anything imaginable
unfortunately, a charge does not itself, prove a crime has been committed by the individual accused
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@Double_R
It wasn't my argument. I was asking for your logic because it made no sense.
honestly, i just did a search for literally "january 6th convictions" and that was the first result
the top five or six links were to the same story
so, it seemed "relevant"
what makes you think it was "cherry picked" ?
how could you even claim it was "cherry picked" unless you yourself found what you consider "BETTER" examples of "january 6th convictions" ?
also,
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@Dr.Franklin
Prove to me that blacks were in ancient sumeria.
The ancient Sumerians, the "black-headed ones," lived in the southern part of what is now Iraq. The heartland of Sumer lay between the Euphrates and Tigris rivers, in what the Greeks later called Mesopotamia. This territory, once skillfully irrigated, proved very fertile, and major cities had long been in existence before the period when archaeologists can identify the Sumerian people themselves. [**]
According to a 4000 year-old inscription by Sumerian Lu-dingir-Ra:
"We migrated to where we are living now thousands of years ago, but they were unable to write down from where because they did not know how to write then. Later on inquisitive scribes and archivists in the royal palace studied the orally transmitted information in an attempt to find out about the past. Our people came to this land from a mountainous country to the northeast. But it is also said that some of them had come via sea from a land called Dilmun in the east. And the reason behind this migration is said to be the onset of an unexplained drought in their warm and rainy country.
Great Enlil had some of us 'darkheads' settle here.... According to rumours and the results of my research as to why we have called ourselves 'darkheads' I found out that before our forefathers migrated here, blonde haired and blue eyed people were living next to their country. I cannot visualise a person with blonde hair and blue eyes. And I don't think it would be nice. I have not seen any person like that in my country". [**]
thick black curly hair and brown skin
you know,
like jesus
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@TWS1405
beauty is in the eye of the beholder
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@sadolite
What the fuck do I know about the creation of the universe and if there is a god? A penis on a man is half way up his body where the legs connect. A woman has a vagina in the same place. Fucking rocket science.
are you going to personally inspect that area every time someone tells you their gender ?
or are you simply going to take them at their word ?
why are you even slightly concerned if you believe someone is "pretending" to be a gender that doesn't match your personal imagination ?
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@ebuc
We orbit truth and see it from differrent angles of viewpoint, but that does not change the truth, it only helps to better refine our words definning the truth.
do you believe this will lead to everyone speaking a single unified language that never changes ?
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@Athias
Which one of these descriptions are you applying when stating this:i don't know what exactly proposition A isand i've lived my life perfectly fine up to this point without knowing exactly what proposition A isthereforeeven though i don't "accept" proposition Bi will continue to act as-if proposition B "is true"
even though i don't "consent to receive" proposition B
even though i don't "give an affirmative answer to (an offer or proposal); say yes to" proposition B
even though i don't "receive as adequate, valid, or suitable" proposition B
even though i don't "regard favourably or with approval; welcome" proposition B
even though i don't "accept" proposition B
any and all of the above
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@Danielle
I've always been more of a self-interested, cut-throat, figure it out, pull yourself up by your bootstraps
easy rider
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@Double_R
Semantics (from Ancient Greek: σημαντικός sēmantikós, "significant") is the study of reference, meaning, or truth. The term can be used to refer to subfields of several distinct disciplines, including philosophy, linguistics and computer science.
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