Total posts: 14,582
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
Christianity is logical incoherent but that doesn't make a good argument for removing the word from the dictionary.
Nobody has argued that words themselves should be removed.
Only that confusing and incoherent DEFINITIONS should be removed.
You yourself have made this argument.
The definition of "christian" as "one who professes belief in the teachings of jesus christ" is not a logically incoherent definition.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
Deliberate deception. I have defended the current definition of ATHEISM. At no time have I suggested any modification.
You have repeatedly argued to EXCLUDE "lack of belief" (from the definition of "atheism") specifically saying it is, "much weaker and much more confusing than the present state of affairs."
And as it turns out, it actually already is "the present state of affairs".
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
Yet there's the problem when they enter the opposites sex's sport,
and that "problem" begs the question of why the sport is divided along those lines in the first place
AND,
this is obviously a "problem" that only affects the officiators of whatever respective sport you might be referring to
these people change the rules all the time, this is not some sort of special "crisis"
and there is absolutely no need for the government to enact any new laws (specifically to EXCLUDE individuals from public life based on their personal choice of clothing and hairstyle and nickname)
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Even religions don't have cooperation within their own group.
they do often tend to fractionalize after they reach the 200 member mark
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
So what does this thread and you imply or want of people?
It is important to maintain a constant awareness of and vigilant respect of our epistemological limits.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
The fact that many individuals need sex surgery, implies that their sex was obvious enough before altering their body it as something else.
not necessarily
many people cannot tell men from women (especially people from an unfamiliar cultural background) at a glance, without cultural clues, like clothing and hairstyle, especially as they get past the age of about fifty-five
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
Is it not an expectation in society that children are raised in accordance with their sex?
FDR Grew Up in a Dress: It Wasn't Always Blue for Boys and Pink for Girls [**]
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
Is sex not quantifiable?
not without a gross invasion of privacy
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
The existence of this thread seems to imply that I 'am expected to pretend men are women, and that women are men?
the existence of this thread seems to imply that people do not generally acknowledge their own epistemological limit
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
If a guy or girl enters the bathroom/changing room/bath house of the opposite sex,Are they not asked to leave?
some are and some are not
some women who are born women and have always identified as women are not only asked to leave the women's bathroom, but are verbally and sometimes physically assaulted if they refuse to leave SIMPLY BECAUSE to some people ("conservatives") they "look like men"
even though they have committed no crime
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
If you say you are 21 and try to drink,Bartender asks for ID.
Because age is QUANTIFIABLE (the date of your birth is registered with the state) without the need for a dna sample or a strip search
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
Why should we do this for a tiny percent?
you are not personally obligated
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
So they're asking us to lie in speech?
If I tell you my name is "bob" - do you demand to see my birth-certificate ?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
The point is about numbers/percentages, not crime.
But the point here is that "conservatives" are wanting to create a crime where no crime currently exists.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
This, 3RU7AL conceded is already true under the current defintion, therefore no re-definition to "a lack of belief" is necessary or justified.
I agreed with you, specifically I agreed with you that the dictionary sources I found ALREADY include "lack of belief".
That is not the same as "conceded".
In fact, you've argued since the beginning that "lack of belief" should NOT be included in the dictionary definition.
And as it turns out, apparently, the lexicographers agree with me.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
At no time have we discussed the validity of atheists'' claims.
The term "logical-coherence" has been mentioned more than a few times in the course of this discussion.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
I showed that language exists for other purposes, disproving this proposition.
A ridiculous red-herring which I chose not to pursue, especially since, according to yourself, that was not your primary objection.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
and also not "simply a lack of belief."
Everyone on earth (except you apparently) understands this is vis-à-vis "theism".
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
But also, even if there are tiny number of criminals, we still make laws that disallow an action.
this type of equivocating trans with criminals is incoherent.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
It doesn't matter that there's X many Communists or X many Atheist or Theist,
well, it sort of does, if you plan on locking them all up in prisons
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
But that there is 24 million people with schizophrenia, doesn't mean I have to change laws to respect their beliefs.
hold on.
the trans and inter-sex community doesn't want to change any bathroom laws.
it's the CONSERVATIVES who want to change the bathroom laws (specifically to exclude trans and inter-sex individuals).
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
People die all the time, what I need is comparisons with other deaths, to tell me if it's enough to take concern over,
good example
total deaths from all causes were up -on average- about 11% for 2020 and 2021
of course many countries reported FEWER than expected total deaths from all causes (for the same time period), including japan and new zealand
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
Why does that number matter?
it is sometimes argued that the rights of trans and inter-sex individuals are of little to no concern because they represent approximately 0.5% of the population
0.5% of the world population is 40 million
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@zedvictor4
Nonetheless, religion certainly is one factor that impedes co-operation.
it seems to facilitate co-operation within the group while impeding co-operation with "outsiders"
Created:
-->
@oromagi
do you believe that people tend to adopt general strategies to deal with challenges they encounter ??
do you believe these strategies are identifiable ??
(1) do you think a person should get their sense of self-worth from within themselves or from what other people think of them?
(2) do you prefer to be spontaneous and go out and travel and do things "IRL" or do you prefer to think about doing things and lose yourself in movies and television shows and books ?
(3) do you think people should generally trust their gut or do you think people should generally think things through ??
(4) do you think people should follow a strict core code of laws or principles no matter what, or do you think that people should follow different rules in different situations ??
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@rbelivb
You say that because they are less that 1% of the population, it's not legitimate. How big would the proportion need to be before they are allowed to innovate on how they understand and use language?
of course,
0.5% of 8 billion is 40 million
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
I worked in criminal justice for over 20 years and have stated this myself, so you can address it to somebody other than me.
i'm trying to agree with you
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@FLRW
When all the factors are taken together—purchase price, range, refueling costs, maintenance and experience—EVs are simply a better investment. Their net emissions are lower, they require less maintenance, they actually cost less over the lifetime of the vehicle, and they're just more fun to drive.
well stated
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
the overwhelming majority of child molesters are "straight"
As usual, hypocritical straight, old white men, guilty of conducting, aiding and abetting rampant pedophilia throughout the church, use the resulting scandal not to address their underlying responsibility or the roots of the problem but to cast blame on gay men ["For Gay Catholic Priests, New Scrutiny," Metro, June 24].
Scientific research finds that pedophilia is a disease separate from and in no way related to homosexuality. In fact, research demonstrates that most pedophiles (more than 95 percent) are heterosexually oriented. [**]
Created:
-->
@Intelligence_06
Luckily it is not one of those things where you have to pay like $69.99 to get a result or something.
Created:
-->
@Mharman
when the test is applied exclusively to internet users.
the ring of gyges
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Bones
> The same reason why you would make laws excluding the very small percent of pedophilles we have from being within schools.
the same reason
which is presumably, BECAUSE THEY ARE CRIMINALS AND GENERALLY CONSIDERED A DANGER TO SOCIETY
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Bones
i'm not sure how much sense it makes to be "proud of" something you did not accomplish"Proud" in a patriotic sense.
why ?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Bones
The same reason why you would make laws excluding the very small percent of pedophilles we have from being within schools.
Strangely, "being trans" is not a criminal act.
Your comparison to criminals is incoherent.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@FLRW
PERFECT GOD = PERFECT WORLD
PERFECT WORLD = PERFECT GOD
IMPERFECT GOD = IMPERFECT WORLD
IMPERFECT WORLD = IMPERFECT GOD
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
So, when you made your topic read "Atheism is simply a lack of belief" you didn't mean simply at all. You meant "Atheism is sometimes a lack of belief."
Atheism is ALWAYS "a lack of belief" which can sometimes be paired with "a strong DISbelief" (among other related and incidental beliefs).
Perhaps more precisely, "not a theist".
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
- Are you conceding that the status quo is sufficiently representative of your personal preference?
Yes.
As I've repeatedly tried to make clear to you, it has never been my intention for "lack of belief" to be used to the exclusion of all other descriptions.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
My primary objection is that your suggested re-definition, "a lack of belief" is much weaker and much more confusing than the present state of affairs.
Atheism, in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of deities. [WIKI]
Atheism: Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. [LEXICO]
Atheism: lack of belief in the existence of God or gods [OXFORD]
Atheism: a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods [WEBSTER]
This is "the present state of affairs".
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Bones
0.5 percent of the population identify as trans.
if this number is "too small to consider" then why bother making new laws to systematically exclude these individuals from public spaces ?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
Are you suggesting we should refer primarily to "original author's intent" for (BOTH) "atheism" (AND) "agnosticism"Yes.
Is your primary objection based on your assessment that "atheism" (defined as a mere "lack of belief in any specific theistic god") is synonymous with "agnosticism" (defined as a merely "The view that the existence of God or of all deities is unknown, unknowable, unproven, or unprovable") ?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
Are you suggesting we should refer primarily to "original author's intent" for (BOTH) "atheism" (AND) "agnosticism" (and all other words generally or is this a case of "special pleading") ?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
Hold on a minute.
Please choose (EITHER) "Wiktionary" (OR) "original author's intent"
It seems incoherent to hold one word to one standard and another word to a completely different standard.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Does that mean your not anti- theists? Not at all.
good point
historically speaking,
the most rabid "anti-theists" have been other theists
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
'Build a third.
this might be somewhat impractical in the moment
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Amoranemix
[4] Belief in the nonexistence of something hardly qualifies as a doctrine.
Atheism is a belief in the way that not eating oatmeal is a breakfast.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Amoranemix
[1] Failure to do something out of fear is not necessarily cowardice. I am afraid to jump under passing trains and therefore I don't. How about you? Are you afraid to jump under passing trains ?
great point
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
What if there's no 2nd bathroom, or even a 1st?
the scenario is two, multi-stall bathrooms (marked "men" and "women")
but no "third bathroom"
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
One wonders if that white Male slave holder left the bits about slaves and wives being obedient
there wouldn't be much left after all that
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@FLRW
Christian atheism
very interesting
sounds like,
Why Thomas Jefferson Rewrote the Bible Without Jesus' Miracles and Resurrection
The third president had a secret: his carefully edited version of the New Testament.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Bones
Manhood and womanhood are things which one ought be proud of
i'm not sure how much sense it makes to be "proud of" something you did not accomplish
Created: