3RU7AL's avatar

3RU7AL

A member since

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Total posts: 14,582

Posted in:
Supreme Court Votes to overturn Roe v Wade Draft Shows.
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@Athias
and contrary to my impression of the general consensus here

but i strongly believe everyone deserves "a clean slate"
Created:
2
Posted in:
Restrictions on Abortion
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@SkepticalOne
The Bible has no *legitimate* place in a secular government. Better?
one would imagine

and i would generally agree

but unfortunately

governments are comprised of humans

and some not insignificant percentage of those humans

seem to believe that the christian text is a good (if not the best possible) moral compass (on which to base civil code)

LAW = CODIFIED MOB RULE
Created:
2
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
 And if you can find a Christian pastor that is following the recommendations from the Old Testament priesthood
well, you can find plenty of christian pastors who teach moral lessons based on the old testament text
Created:
1
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Restrictions on Abortion
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@RationalMadman
What fascinates me is how it is the left wing that is being so psychopathic and the right wing being so empathetic, considering that the mother's position is that of the merciless landlord's and fetus that of the helpless squatter in this analogy.
perhaps you'd prefer the infallible word of "YHWH" ?

Exodus 21:22 is, however, a part of the Bible that actually does mention the fetus. “When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman’s husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”

This is fascinating because it outlines specific punishments for specific crimes. If a woman is hurt in a struggle and then has a miscarriage, the penalty is a fine, a mere financial payment. But, if there is further harm, likely meaning the woman has long-term and serious injuries or even dies, then the culprit could be killed. In other words, the life and well-being of the woman, the mother, is of much greater significance than those of her unborn child.
also notice the "payment" is determined by and is paid to the father
Created:
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Posted in:
Restrictions on Abortion
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@SkepticalOne
The Bible has no place in a secular government so it doesn't really matter what it says.
well, except for the fact that nearly all elected officials in the united states claim to be "christian"
Created:
1
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Restrictions on Abortion
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@FLRW
Exodus 21:22 is, however, a part of the Bible that actually does mention the fetus. “When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman’s husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”

This is fascinating because it outlines specific punishments for specific crimes. If a woman is hurt in a struggle and then has a miscarriage, the penalty is a fine, a mere financial payment. But, if there is further harm, likely meaning the woman has long-term and serious injuries or even dies, then the culprit could be killed. In other words, the life and well-being of the woman, the mother, is of much greater significance than those of her unborn child.
also notice the "payment" is determined by and is paid to the father

Created:
1
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@Lemming
Why even include the Old Testament, if it has no bearing on Christianity?
yep
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1
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@Lemming
I can understand disliking the claim of the Bible being perfect, given that it has various forms, and editions.
Without talking to the person making the claim, I don't know their reasons for their claim, myself.
trust me

i have lived my entire life surrounded by these types

and they just shrug it off

"it's obvious" they say

"if you don't see it, then you need to pray more" they say
Created:
2
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@Lemming
i'm always willing to grant someone their AXIOMS

but you can't cherry-pick something when you claim it is the 110% truest purest word of your infallible god and "morality never changes"
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@Lemming
  • Some argue that all laws related to sexual conduct carry over to the New Testament, but Leviticus also prohibits sex during a woman’s menstrual period (Leviticus 18:19), which most Christians do not regard as sinful.
this is a great example of the arbitrary cherry-picking embraced by modern christians (specifically when they say "gay = evil")

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0
Posted in:
transgenders attracted to opposite biological sex- either homo or heterosexual is a fair label
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@zedvictor4
But explain why extreme mutilation and medical disfigurement is a normal healthy necessity [CITATION PLEEZ], rather than a psychologically inspired social trend.
body modification is nothing new

According to Verified Market Research, the Global Cosmetic Surgery Market size was valued at USD 49.14 Billion in 2020
Created:
0
Posted in:
Taxing the rich fallacy.
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@blamonkey
What about stock buybacks? From 2003 to 2012, over 100 major corporations expended 53% of their corporate profits, or $2.4 trillion USD, on repurchasing stock (HBR).
great point
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Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@Lemming
I don't see the hair trimming as unreasonable, in context.
sure,

these rules did not ONLY apply to priests

and,

in modern times, christians like to claim "some rules are moral" and "some rules are ritual and or practical"

but, they have no biblical basis on which to make these fundamentally arbitrary claims


Prohibitions of things like mixed fabrics were part of the ceremonial law, but wasn’t the prohibition of male same-sex relations part of the moral law?

  • Some argue that all laws related to sexual conduct carry over to the New Testament, but Leviticus also prohibits sex during a woman’s menstrual period (Leviticus 18:19), which most Christians do not regard as sinful.
  • Others suggest that the term “abomination” indicates that same-sex behavior is particularly egregious, but we widely accept other practices that were called abominations: charging interest on loans (Ezekiel 18:13), burning incense (Isaiah 1:13), and eating pork, rabbit, and shellfish. (Deuteronomy 14:3-21).
  • Even the death penalty applied to some practices we now accept: working on the Sabbath (Exodus 35:2) and charging interest on loans (Ezekiel 18:13). The Old Testament doesn't distinguish between “ceremonial” and “moral” laws.
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Restrictions on Abortion
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@thett3
But I’m trying to work within your moral framework of property rights which you would limit in some circumstances [SPECIFIC EXAMPLE MISSING] but not others [SPECIFIC EXAMPLE MISSING]. I’m not seeing a clear standard here 
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Posted in:
“everything’s gonna be all white” docuseries
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@Dr.Franklin
the naming is confusing, sure. But distinct races exist
Hutu and Tutsi inhabit Rwanda and Burundi in Central Africa. There are no significant linguistic or religious differences between them and they both live in mixed settlements, however, violent "ethnic" conflicts have erupted between these groups.
Created:
1
Posted in:
Taxing the rich fallacy.
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@thett3
Last I checked eliminating the earnings threshold where social security taxes are no longer taken out makes the program solvent again. Something like that seems like a no brainer to me. 
100% THIS
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Restrictions on Abortion
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@SkepticalOne
Bodily autonomy is the only right actually at play here. If someone (even a born person) lives in or off of my body, I have the right to evict. Not one of us has a right to use any body other than our own without consent.
perfecto
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Restrictions on Abortion
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@thett3
It’s just weird because I know that every single person who has responded and said that yes they support elective abortions of healthy fetuses up to the moment of birth also supports taxes and other types of government policy. 
please explain the apparently "anti-all-forms-of-government-policy" (AAFOGP) that you seem to think is somehow intrinsically intertwined with "late-term-abortion-choice" (LTAC)
Created:
1
Posted in:
Restrictions on Abortion
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@thett3
from my perspective this is the same "right to self-ownership" and "right to medical privacy" as the fight over MANDATORY vaccines
(IFF) "life (and the rights of citizenship) begins at conception" (THEN) miscarriage = manslaughter (AND) in-vitro fertilization = murder

AND,

personal privacy and medical privacy goes out the window completely

(IFF) "life (and the rights of citizenship) begins at conception" (THEN) every single CONCEPTION must be REGISTERED WITH THE STATE which would basically make it mandatory for all women to immediately report a positive pregnancy test in order to receive a "(pre)birth certificate"

Created:
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Posted in:
Supreme Court Votes to overturn Roe v Wade Draft Shows.
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@imdancin
I believe every life in the womb deserves personhood and should have rights under our laws that protect them from being murdered.
from my perspective this is the same "right to self-ownership" and "right to medical privacy" as the fight over MANDATORY vaccines
(IFF) "life (and the rights of citizenship) begins at conception" (THEN) miscarriage = manslaughter (AND) in-vitro fertilization = murder

AND,

personal privacy and medical privacy goes out the window completely

(IFF) "life (and the rights of citizenship) begins at conception" (THEN) every single CONCEPTION must be REGISTERED WITH THE STATE which would basically make it mandatory for all women to immediately report a positive pregnancy test in order to receive a "(pre)birth certificate"
Created:
2
Posted in:
Supreme Court Votes to overturn Roe v Wade Draft Shows.
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@imdancin
Sorry I do not get it, could you explain please?
Athias seems to think you are presenting arguments similar to those of a former debateart member, Ethang5
Created:
2
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@imdancin
“’Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard."

“Do not trim off the hair on your temples or trim your beards."

"You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard."

"You must not cut off the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard."

"Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard."
Created:
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Posted in:
Supreme Court Votes to overturn Roe v Wade Draft Shows.
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@imdancin
What is ethang ??? 
Created:
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Posted in:
Restrictions on Abortion
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@Danielle
Ultimately,  it goes back to the issue of privacy and government power regardless of people's personal feelings on late term abortion and how viscerally grotesque they imagine it to be. You have to separate your feelings on what you consider abhorrent to look at the what role the government ought to play. The decision that goes into each abortion is very different and extremely complex and personal. 
well stated
Created:
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Posted in:
Restrictions on Abortion
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@Danielle
And the bottom line is as horrible as that choice is, that woman, that family may seek spiritual guidance, they may seek medical guidance,
great point
Created:
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Posted in:
Restrictions on Abortion
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@oromagi
Benjamin Franklin put his recipe for home abortions between his advice for treating gout and  kidney stones,
"original intent" indeed
Created:
0
Posted in:
Taxing the rich fallacy.
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@Greyparrot
and as a bonus,

The most widely spoken language in Singapore is English. It is spoken by a majority of the population and is a medium of instruction in schools and the official language of business and government. Being a former Crown Colony, the English used in Singapore is based on British English.
Created:
1
Posted in:
Socialism correlates with higher living standards
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@sadolite
Ranked: The Social Mobility of 82 Countries

It’s an unfortunate truth that a person’s opportunities can be partially tethered to their socioeconomic status at birth.
Although winning or losing the “birth lottery” will continue to shape the lives of generations to come, climbing the socioeconomic ladder is possible. However, it boils down to what opportunities people are afforded in the country they live in.

Today’s chart pulls data from the inaugural Global Social Mobility report produced by the World Economic Forum. The report ranks 82 countries according to their performance across five key pillars: healthcare, education, technology access, working conditions, and social protection.
While most countries aim to create a level playing field, which places best live up to this lofty and challenging mission?

The Spectrum of Social Mobility

Social mobility refers to the movement of individuals either up or down the socioeconomic ladder relative to their current standing, such as a low-income family moving up to become a part of the middle class.

Countries with high levels of social mobility exhibit lower levels of income inequality and provide more equally shared opportunities for its citizens across each of the five pillars.

Here is how all 82 countries rank, according to the report:

#1
Denmark
85.2
#2
Norway
83.6
#3
Finland
83.6
#4
Sweden
83.5
#5
Iceland
82.7
#6
Netherlands
82.4
#7
Switzerland
82.1
#8
Belgium
80.1
#9
Austria
80.1
#10
Luxembourg
79.8
#11
Germany
78.8
#12
France
76.7
#13
Slovenia
76.4
#14
Canada
76.1
#15
Japan
76.1
#16
Australia
75.1
#17
Malta
75.0
#18
Ireland
75.0
#19
Czech Republic
74.7
#20
Singapore
74.6
#21
United Kingdom
74.4
#22
New Zealand
74.3
#23
Estonia
73.5
#24
Portugal
72.0
#25
Korean Republic
71.4
#26
Lithuania
70.5
#27
United States
70.4
#28
Spain
70.0
#29
Cyprus
69.4
#30
Poland
69.1
#31
Latvia
69.0
#32
Slovak Republic
68.5
#33
Israel
68.1
#34
Italy
67.4
#35
Uruguay
67.1
#36
Croatia
66.7
#37
Hungary
65.8
#38
Kazakhstan
64.8
#39
Russian Federation
64.7
#40
Bulgaria
63.8
#41
Serbia
63.8
#42
Romania
63.1
#43
Malaysia
62.0
#44
Costa Rica
61.6
#45
China
61.5
#46
Ukraine
61.2
#47
Chile
60.3
#48
Greece
59.8
#49
Moldova
59.6
#50
Vietnam
57.8
#51
Argentina
57.3
#52
Saudi Arabia
57.1
#53
Georgia
55.6
#54
Albania
55.6
#55
Thailand
55.4
#56
Armenia
53.9
#57
Ecuador
53.9
#58
Mexico
52.6
#59
Sri Lanka
52.3
#60
Brazil
52.1
#61
Philippines
51.7
#62
Tunisia
51.7
#63
Panama
51.4
#64
Turkey
51.3
#65
Colombia
50.3
#66
Peru
49.9
#67
Indonesia
49.3
#68
El Salvador
47.4
#69
Paraguay
46.8
#70
Ghana
45.5
#71
Egypt
44.8
#72
Laos
43.8
#73
Morocco
43.7
#74
Honduras
43.5
#75
Guatemala
43.5
#76
India
42.7
#77
South Africa
41.4
#78
Bangladesh
40.2
#79
Pakistan
36.7
#80
Cameroon
36
#81
Senegal
36.0
#82
Côte d’Ivoire
34.5


Created:
1
Posted in:
Taxing the rich fallacy.
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@Greyparrot
Ranked: The Social Mobility of 82 Countries

It’s an unfortunate truth that a person’s opportunities can be partially tethered to their socioeconomic status at birth.
Although winning or losing the “birth lottery” will continue to shape the lives of generations to come, climbing the socioeconomic ladder is possible. However, it boils down to what opportunities people are afforded in the country they live in.

Today’s chart pulls data from the inaugural Global Social Mobility report produced by the World Economic Forum. The report ranks 82 countries according to their performance across five key pillars: healthcare, education, technology access, working conditions, and social protection.
While most countries aim to create a level playing field, which places best live up to this lofty and challenging mission?

The Spectrum of Social Mobility

Social mobility refers to the movement of individuals either up or down the socioeconomic ladder relative to their current standing, such as a low-income family moving up to become a part of the middle class.

Countries with high levels of social mobility exhibit lower levels of income inequality and provide more equally shared opportunities for its citizens across each of the five pillars.

Here is how all 82 countries rank, according to the report:

#1
Denmark
85.2
#2
Norway
83.6
#3
Finland
83.6
#4
Sweden
83.5
#5
Iceland
82.7
#6
Netherlands
82.4
#7
Switzerland
82.1
#8
Belgium
80.1
#9
Austria
80.1
#10
Luxembourg
79.8
#11
Germany
78.8
#12
France
76.7
#13
Slovenia
76.4
#14
Canada
76.1
#15
Japan
76.1
#16
Australia
75.1
#17
Malta
75.0
#18
Ireland
75.0
#19
Czech Republic
74.7
#20
Singapore
74.6
#21
United Kingdom
74.4
#22
New Zealand
74.3
#23
Estonia
73.5
#24
Portugal
72.0
#25
Korean Republic
71.4
#26
Lithuania
70.5
#27
United States
70.4
#28
Spain
70.0
#29
Cyprus
69.4
#30
Poland
69.1
#31
Latvia
69.0
#32
Slovak Republic
68.5
#33
Israel
68.1
#34
Italy
67.4
#35
Uruguay
67.1
#36
Croatia
66.7
#37
Hungary
65.8
#38
Kazakhstan
64.8
#39
Russian Federation
64.7
#40
Bulgaria
63.8
#41
Serbia
63.8
#42
Romania
63.1
#43
Malaysia
62.0
#44
Costa Rica
61.6
#45
China
61.5
#46
Ukraine
61.2
#47
Chile
60.3
#48
Greece
59.8
#49
Moldova
59.6
#50
Vietnam
57.8
#51
Argentina
57.3
#52
Saudi Arabia
57.1
#53
Georgia
55.6
#54
Albania
55.6
#55
Thailand
55.4
#56
Armenia
53.9
#57
Ecuador
53.9
#58
Mexico
52.6
#59
Sri Lanka
52.3
#60
Brazil
52.1
#61
Philippines
51.7
#62
Tunisia
51.7
#63
Panama
51.4
#64
Turkey
51.3
#65
Colombia
50.3
#66
Peru
49.9
#67
Indonesia
49.3
#68
El Salvador
47.4
#69
Paraguay
46.8
#70
Ghana
45.5
#71
Egypt
44.8
#72
Laos
43.8
#73
Morocco
43.7
#74
Honduras
43.5
#75
Guatemala
43.5
#76
India
42.7
#77
South Africa
41.4
#78
Bangladesh
40.2
#79
Pakistan
36.7
#80
Cameroon
36
#81
Senegal
36.0
#82
Côte d’Ivoire
34.5

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Taxing the rich fallacy.
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@Greyparrot
And there is no more heavily regulated market as the Chinese market.
do you personally think the united states should emulate the chinese hybrid economy ?
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Posted in:
Taxing the rich fallacy.
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@Greyparrot
Billionaire producers most often exist in heavily regulated markets where you have to be exceptional in a world of regulated competition.
China is producing new billionaires, especially female billionaires, at a much faster rate than any other country in the world - though America's upper class still controls more wealth than its Chinese counterparts. As of 2022, China has more billionaires, with 1,133, while the US has just 716.
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Taxing the rich fallacy.
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@Greyparrot
we don't seem to need billionaires to invent stuff
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Taxing the rich fallacy.
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@Greyparrot
Steve Jobs was a sales and marketing genius, but he never invented anything. In fact, he knew almost nothing about computers.

Steve Wozniak

Born: August 11, 1950 (age 71), San Jose, California, United States
Net worth: $10 million (celebritynetworth.com)
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Taxing the rich fallacy.
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@Greyparrot
Musk invented more things  than Nasa with less money and in a faster time frame. 
we stand on the shoulders of giants
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Taxing the rich fallacy.
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@Greyparrot
So we would be better off without Iphones, cars, internet,

When was the first touchscreen phone invented? The first touchscreen phone was launched in 1992 by IBM. The IBM Simon is also referred as the first smartphone. Simon is the first smartphone to be incorporated with the features of a PDA.

Karl Benz patented the three-wheeled Motor Car, known as the "Motorwagen," in 1886. It was the first true, modern automobile,

But not the Internet itself, which began as Arpanet, an effort of the Defense Department's Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) in the late 1960s, under the supervision of visionaries like Bob Taylor.

NASA is also credited with inventing,


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Taxing the rich fallacy.
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@Benjamin
Go to the middle ages or ancient rome and you will find plenty of RICH people who are keeping the masses down using their wealth and influence.
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Posted in:
Taxing the rich fallacy.
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@CoolApe
Wealth taxes encourage rich people move their wealth out of the country and hide it.
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Posted in:
transgenders attracted to opposite biological sex- either homo or heterosexual is a fair label
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@zedvictor4
Nonetheless there is no definitive explanation for the current trend, so it must be expected that questions will be raised especially within a discussion forum.
androgyny and gender swapping is not a new idea

there are many ancient writings that describe such things

these people have by all accounts always been present in society in small percentages

even in places and times where they would very likely be killed if they were discovered

what kind of "definitive explanation for the current trend" are you looking for ?

these people no longer wish to "hide in the shadows" and somehow this has become "controversial"

even though it really isn't anyone's business
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Restrictions on Abortion
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@bmdrocks21
Adults to some extent should have expectations of making rational choices.
"adult" is a bit of a fuzzy description for people in their 20's

do you perhaps believe abortion should be available for women under the age of 18 ?
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Definition of a Racist
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@Double_R
defending the notion that the civil war was about states rights before it was about slavery
not even close

i simply pointed out that the two are not mutually exclusive

i certainly didn't say one was "before" the other

and i wasn't "defending" anything
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Definition of a Racist
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@Double_R
declaring its constitution is subservient to the country’s constitution
the federal constitution limits federal authority to regulation of INTER-state commerce
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Definition of a Racist
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@Barney
That's not actually how Ad Hominems work. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_hominem#Not_ad_hom
Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem (Latin for 'argument to the person')

any (negative) characterization of the speaker themselves and or their motives and or their general quality of character and or state-of-mind and or smell and or physical appearance

such characterizations can neither enhance nor discredit any individual's argument(s)

many like to argue that speculation about an individual that is not EXPLICITLY stated as "therefore your argument is discredited" does not count

but fail to offer an alternative explanation for these otherwise OBVIOUSLY OFF-TOPIC comments

negative characterizations are very clearly designed to sway any reader AGAINST the argument, ipso facto, discredit their argument(s)
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Socialism correlates with higher living standards
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@sadolite
That's "my perception" of all Govts  everywhere.
you seem like a very well informed individual
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Definition of a Racist
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@Barney
an ad hominem attack CAN be the subject of a discussion

but that doesn't make it any less of an ad hominem attack

and

contrary to your ridiculous insinuations

i'm not "defending" anyone in particular here

i'm outlining a general principle

this also applies to LGBTQ+ and people of other non-obvious clubs, religions, and assorted groups

each person gets to define themselves

self-identification does NOT prevent you from making any specific claim (with supporting evidence) about their actions

but you are reaching beyond your epistemological limits if you claim to know the "motives" (or group memberships) of anyone other than yourself
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Definition of a Racist
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@Lemming
Capitalist or Communist, might be meant as an insult, if one uses the word, that one is not.
great example

and even if someone does actually self-identify as a "communist", good luck trying to get their detractors to acknowledge there is more than one type of "communism"
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Definition of a Racist
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@Barney
what exactly is the point of such a designation (in your personal opinion) ?
Nouns are useful in the construction of shared language.
name-calling = ad hominem attack
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Definition of a Racist
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@Double_R
Now imagine if the reason they succeeded was because
you seem to have no concept of jurisdiction
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Restrictions on Abortion
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@thett3
breaking a lease to evict 
at what point did the deadbeat baby sign a lease agreement that includes free rent ?
Created:
2
Posted in:
Hard Drive Reliability
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@Snoopy
How do you check that your SSD (Solid State Drive) or HDD (Hard Disk Drive) is in good repair?
cmd

wmic diskdrive get status

if you see anything other than a "Status OK" then you should probably buy a new drive and backup your data immediately

also

if your drive is more than three years old, assume it will fail without warning
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Socialism correlates with higher living standards
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@Greyparrot
What is socialism? We miss the boat if we say it's the agenda of those left-wingers and Democrats. According to Marxist doctrine, socialism is a stage of society between capitalism and communism where private ownership and control over property is eliminated. The essence of socialism is the attenuation and ultimate abolition of private property rights. Attacks on private property include, but are not limited to, confiscating the rightful property of one person and giving it to another to whom it doesn't belong. When this is done privately we call it theft. When it's done collectively we use the euphemisms: income transfers or redistribution. It's not just left-wingers and Democrats who call for and admire socialism but right-wingers and Republicans as well.
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