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Kinda busy today. Will give a more thorough catch-up later. I can say that if I was scum, I definitely wouldn't waste a question on Maya, considering she's very likely to already be present, especially as her character fits very well thematically with an investigative role.
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@Savant
I am curious how you come to the conclusion, from your pov, that Wylted is close to town confirmed.
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@whiteflame
I agree. Without speculating further, I'd prefer to look at my results holistically in the context of behavior as well. I wouldn't be opposed to lynching someone outside the three, although the game is moving pretty slowly right now. What do you think of Savant?
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@Lunatic
Your concern is noted. What do you think of Savant? His play feels quite different to his towngame.
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@Lunatic
not sure what you're talking about, but it would be anti-town to elaborate on my claim further.
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uh I'll be honest here neither of you are giving me good vibes, need to think it over
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@Lunatic
If you believe my results, and think Wylted is town, then Savant should 100% be scum fypov btw.
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@WyIted
It does bother me that Austin seems to know I am town even after CCing him mistakenly. I understand changing your read after I acknowledge I gucked up, but why the town read prior to me acknowledging thay?
Because there's no scum motivation for you to do this. Trading yourself 1-for-1 for a townie (who's already given results to boot) is just bad play. Also, I play on other sites, and I fake guilties a lot as town to see how people react (on at least two occasions they broke down and confessed to being scum), so I thought that was what you were doing, especially as you faked daycops in the past (I think in Arthropoda mafia?)
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Yeah this is easy. Guaranteed scum between Luna and Savant.
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Restless Spirit is obviously a locktown role because it's broken in the hands of scum (essentially brings MYLO a day early).
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ok Wylted is locktown because I don't think he can fake an entire gambit (fakeclaiming a character, role that matches perfectly, then pseudo-CCing and retracting in a derpy way) like that early on IMMEDIATELY (like minutes after) my claim.
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@WyIted
you are fucking kidding me. Mia is Maya's sister.
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@whiteflame
I'm town, I'm Maya Fey. I actually kinda get what Wylted is doing because I've done it myself on other sites (faking a guilty to see how people react), but it's standard practice to retract as soon as you get the response you're looking for. If he's scum, then idk what the fuck he's doing.
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@WyIted
If you are actually town, you need to retract when I get to L - 2. I don't care what you do before then and I'll do whatever I want in thread, but you do understand that when I flip you're just going to chain into another mislynch, right?
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I think it's more likely that he's gambitting in order to try and provoke a reaction from me, although I'm not entirely sure what he's getting at here.
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@whiteflame
Sure. I'm Maya Fey and I have no motivation to be lying. Considering that Maya is literally the deutertagonist of the series, if I was scum there's not a snowball's chance in hell that I would recklessly fakeclaim like that.
I think Wylted is town if only because he has no motivation to trade himself 1-for-1 for a townie this early on, but considering he daycopped 7000series guilty in Battlebots Mafia when he was scum, I'm not 100% sure.
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@WyIted
At least it's more original than your daycop claim. If you're town and actually get us to MYLO straight off a badly done reaction test, then we are not playing together again.
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@WyIted
I don't really mind the reaction test, but you better retract when I get to L - 2.
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@WyIted
Maybe someday, I have a good memory, that doesn't really invalidate my point
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@Savant
The results are real. I will not clarify my role any further because I believe it would be anti-town. I will claim my character though: Maya Fey.
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@Savant
I mean, "he hasn't rolled scum for a while so he's gonna be scum now" seems so ridiculous I assumed it was just RVS shenanigans, but I'll wait until Luna comes on to clarify.
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@WyIted
I didn't want to bring it up yet becausei have only been able to jump on my phone in a very sparse manner but what Austin is doing is anti town. He does it when he is town also but it's not a good thing. He still hasn't learned to tune out everything and just focus on behavioral reads and on dp1 there is no point in speculating about roles to much unless we are trying to help the scum team start hunting for strong roles to take out or avoiding weak ones when they select an NK.
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10778-the-heroes-of-olympus-mafia-dp1?page=13&post_number=371
Wylted can you confirm whether or not you made this post
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@WyIted
Wylted sincerely, why the heck are you speculating on claims, you know that's anti-town
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@Savant
Yeah wait a minute, Austin started with this plan after Luna accused WyIted. Seems like it would be in scum's favor to say they had info implicating players who were accusing each other already.
This is not really an accurate summation of events, because I crumbed my role well before Luna made a serious accusation on Wylted (I assume the "he's overdue for being scum" is a joke although now I'm not really sure).
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@Lunatic
I’m serious on my mod psyche read on wylted. Seriously think he’s overdue for being scum
How would you feel if I said there's one scum in you, Wylted, and Savant?
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@Casey_Risk
Yours was actually one of the easiest to design, funnily enough. The idea of a movie being watched lends itself nicely to your first ability, and I threw in the second in order to prove my point of role affiliation =/= affiliation confirmation (and you definitely should have used your Popular ability, idk why Pie said it's scummy)
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@Owen_T
Why do you think Wylted and lunatic are safe?
Wylted using really bad logic is a strong towntell of his. Luna is a leantown based on tone and behavior that I might reconsider later.
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Pie and Casey played this well. Especially Pie, his sheer amount of effort was simply incredible. If more players show that kind of effort, they'll find that it's possible to talk yourself out of even the most hopeless, game-screwed situations. That being said, pick a less obvious NK target :)
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However, with the way things went, town never, never, should have lost this. Pie and Casey were poe'd hard, town got a lot of kill power, and it should have been easy to shred. Wylted vigging Earth was a literal gamethrow.
That being said, about the other townies:
Barney showed generally solid play. Good choice of shirts, and auctioning early on was a risky move but ended up giving town a lot of alignment indicative info.
Joebob for town MVP - blocking two kills in a row is genuinely some of the best mechanical play I've seen in a while.
Savant needs to learn to not deathtunnel.
Moozer's role was interesting, and I really liked the design. I think waiting for the innocent child was a risky choice, but it was the correct play in the post d1-gamestate. Getting "caught" with Joebob was just really bad luck.
Luna played well. Shouldn't have overthought it at the end, but that's mylo for you (which, again, never should have been mylo).
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In terms of setup, I do believe that this balanced, even though it may not have seemed that way in the game. In general, I design my setups around a fundamental tenet of game design, which is "how you use your role is as important as how powerful it is." Almost every powerful town role in the game could easily have backfired. Joebob's commute could hide scum from a vig shot, while their strengthen could allow scum to have an extra-powerful NK. The neighborhood vig could have backfired (especially if scum infiltrated it), as well as the shirt.
The second tenet of mafia design I follow is that "role confirmation =/= affiliation confirmation". Savant's vote thief confirmed his role, but was obviously scummy as heck, while Pie's magistrate was a traditionally towny role. Town made the mistake of focusing too much on having a confirmed role without taking behavior into account.
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ACTIONS:
D1:
Savant steals Earth’s vote
Barney auctions vig shot (won by Wylted)
Wylted activates passive lynchproof
Barney offers bulletproof to Wylted (accepted)
Joebob gives commute/strengthen to Barney (commute chosen)
Savant is lynched
N1:
Lunatic uses investigative (result: five players acted)
Wylted accepts bulletproof
Barney commutes
Earth neighborizes Wylted and Moozer
Moozer waives
Pie jailkeeps Wylted
Pie magistrates Lunatic
Pie NKs Barney (fails)
D2:
Barney offers bulletproof to Lunatic (accepted)
Joebob gives commute/strengthen to Earth (commute chosen)
Joebob is lynched
N2:
Lunatic accepts bulletproof
Earth commutes
Wylted vigs Casey (fails, shot refunded)
Moozer waives
Neighborhood waives
Pie jailkeeps Wylted
Pie NKs Earth (fails)
D3:
Barney offers bulletproof to Moozer (declined)
Casey is lynched
N3:
Moozer tracks Wylted (fails)
Neighborhood waives
Wylted vigs Earth
Pie strongman/ninja NKs Moozer
Pie jailkeeps Moozer
D4:
Wylted is lynched
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@Savant
Also what is your username on lichess?
Same as mine here.
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@Savant
Is there a reason for this?
Partially behavioral, partially mechanical.
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Reads:
Lean town:
-Wylted
-Lunatic
Slight town:
-whiteflame
-Owen
Null:
-Mharman
-Joebob
-Earth
Slight scum:
-Savant
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@whiteflame
@WyIted
It went pretty well, thanks - should be a few matches away from getting my National Master title. ^Wylted, I'm around 2450 on Lichess (because communism is indeed superior)
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@Savant
How would Austin know I'm scum? Unless he's my partner??
Just let me bus you, no one will ever figure it out
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@Mharman
Tf is +randchance explain in layman’s terms plz
Sometimes I don't codeswitch from mafiascum very well, but basically it's just a quick way of saying "having a greater probability of being scum than random chance would otherwise dictate"
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@Mharman
So Casey declined to answer this question to me in a PM.
This feels kinda like angleshooting but I think if that's the case than whiteflame is +randchance to be scum tbh
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@Lunatic
Pie isn’t playing. I think he helped Casey with the game. Not sure if this is a town slip or not….
I don't really find it alignment indicative. If anything, it might be a little bit scummy since it's kinda performative.
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@Lunatic
Just depends on the mod. But I can see Casey maybe doing at least one vet, one noob, or something like that. Maybe two noobs since he is giving them fake claims and the ability to ask about character and roles
If it's non-randomized, Owen is probably just locktown because of the 420 incident from last game
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@whiteflame
Doing pretty good, albeit kinda tired and busy and will be slanking for the first few days of this game or so. Just got back from a chess tournament on the East Coast and time zone changes are a pain.
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@Savant
Hi everyone!
Savant, how does it feel to roll scum again?
VTL Savant
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In terms of the swinginess of this game from a scale of 1-10, this was a solid "yes". Cool setup for sure, Yakuza is a broken role tho.
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