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@Greyparrot
If you were roleblocked in any way, claim now.
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My preferred lynch order would be Pie then BK, but I can see the argument for BK. Just want to note that while mentioning Janitors last DP is definitely suspicious, it could be an easy frame-job by scummies to make BK look really bad.
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Before anyone takes the trouble of looking, all 8 living players were online in the last hour, so we can't exclude anyone from having an active action.
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Unfortunate about Savant, but that takes him out of POE at least.
Townclear (hopefully):
-Joebob
-Greyparrot
Strong town:
-Barney
Lean town behaviorally:
-Vader
-Whiteflame
POE:
-BK
-Pie
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@Vader
@whiteflame
@Savant
@JoeBob
Honestly, the more we keep going back and forth on this, the more resigned I feel to the Austin lynch. I still can't say I buy that he's scum, but PoE alone puts him in a bad position, and he might just be more helpful to us after he's confirmed town and we run through a NP. [WHITEFLAME]
I think that's the best way to describe how town feels right now: "resigned". If any of you genuinely believe I will flip scum, then just say it right now. I'm disappointed with this wagon because no one really believes in it but no one really cares enough to change things. Town is content to lynch me and "do something useful" because it's the path of least resistance and, well, who really cares anyway?
There's a phenomenon in psychology called "the temporal pattern of regret", where new actions that lead to negative consequences tend to be viewed with more regret than inaction that leads to negative consequences. When town gets to MYLO because oopsies-doopsies, we mislynched a townie on DP1, y'all will be kicking yourselves. I'm not annoyed that I'm being mislynched (hey, first time for everyone), but I'm annoyed that town isn't seriously considering other options. If I saw an impending mislynch on another townie, I wouldn't let them get dragged off kicking and screaming into the night. But maybe that's just me.
End of rant. I'll hammer in exactly an hour.
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Anyway I'll take a break from this thread now. I'll check in before it ends to hammer myself if necessary.
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@Vader
Tbh I'm being defensive because I have nothing to lose (it's a more fun role than I thought).
Best-case scenario: I convince town to stop being sheeple and avoid a mislynch.
Worst-case scenario: I get lynched, my defensiveness doesn't really matter because I'm basically cleared next DP.
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@whiteflame
I suppose that's the best we're going to get, up to the other townies now. I'm willing to make this a 1v1 between me and Pie.
Symbolically or not, I guess I'll VTL Pie.
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@ILikePie5
Anything you say regarding your behavior is clearly WIFOM then. Anything you say should not be believed.
And of course, if I was changing my meta to avoid detection, the first thing I would do is notify town of it. Sure I would.
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Yet you ignored the fact that I would have had to claim Mark Grayson knowing that he was the main character and was going to be in the game. Scum weren’t given a character claim and you ignored that. Claiming the MC might not clear me, but claiming the MC this early in the game with no fake claims given is asinine especially when we know that Lunatic has given main characters every game.
I think you're a good enough scum player that you could intuit a character claim from a specific enough fake role claim. If Lunatic gave me "Commuter", the first thing I would do is search for characters whose abilities allow them to avoid taking damage.
It doesn’t matter whether it loses utility or not. You refused to claim when people that you townread even requested you to claim. I claimed right away. Even if you were the Cop you should’ve claimed. Your mechanics are irrelevant. The delay is insanely scummy.
I wasn't at L - 1, and I was sure that there were scum on the wagon. If you think that players should claim any time a wagon gets anywhere close to them, then two scum plus a misguided townie and force a claim from just about anyone. Once I got to a point of pressure, I claimed my character, and then my role shortly afterward. Furthermore, MY ROLE LOSES UTILITY when claimed. YOUR ROLE does not. It's a false equivalence and you know it.
I never said it’s not possible to focus on more than one person. My problem is that it’s clear you’re information phishing, which is scummy.
Show me exactly where I fished for information. I didn't affect Barney's actions at all (that I know of), and BK claimed on his own.
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@ILikePie5
Barney, and only Barney, knows why I townread him. Can't say more. If he rereads the DP he'll realize it too.
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@whiteflame
Yeah, idk really then. We both townread Joebob and GP, Savant is off the table, I'm not lynching Barney. That leaves Vader, but he hasn't done anything overtly scummy and I'm not going to lynch him without getting a claim.
From my point of view, if I wanted to survive, I would try to get a no lynch. But since that's not going to help town, and only pushes the issue of me to tomorrow, I'm not going to go for that.
With all that said, why do you scumread Barney?
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@JoeBob
If you're going to vote me, then at least promise that you'll work with me to get one of my scumreads lynched tomorrow. I legitimately don't understand your reasoning for voting me, but so be it.
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@whiteflame
Alright, then please respond to my earlier request. I don't think you're going to be able to rally people around the picks you already have, so who would you choose that could get the votes?
I'll keep this pretty simple:
Pie lynch > BK lynch > My lynch > Vader/whiteflame/Savant lynch > no lynch > Barney lynch > Joebob/GP lynch.
If we're not getting Pie or BK, then I'm fine with getting lynched. If you really believe I'm town though, then you'll help me get one of those lynches.
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BK's play has been far out of his meta. As I mentioned earlier, he gets defensive and upset when he gets pressured as town. This game, he's acting like a maniac with nothing to lose - hopping between wagons, acting unusually eager for a lynch, and not really engaging with the rest of town.
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@whiteflame
The only people potentially in my scumpile are Savant, BK, and Pie. Savant mentioned his role is easily confirmable, so I'll drop him for now.
Although Pie is my top lynch, I understand we're not going to get a consensus on him. As such, I'd prefer to lynch BK on behavioral grounds. Yes, he has a relatively good claim, but that could easily be a result of having a competent scumpartner.
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@ILikePie5
What’s unnatural about it? I pushed Barney so that he wouldn’t lay back as he did when he was scum. You find that scummy af and lead a 10 minute wagon on me to force me to claim. I claim a main character and Commuter. Then you say my role makes no sense because Lunatic doesn’t make main characters town or whatever and you cite 3 games in your support. I go back in and do my own research and point out other Lunatic games that show he made main characters town, which amounts to Austin cherry-picking. Even then, he still goes after me saying I “misconstrued” his argument. When I lead a counter wagon on him, he screams foul for the exact same reason that I said: a quick wagon. He hesitates to claim for an eternity, and then finally claims upon pressure. This not even considering that he switched onto Barney in the middle and then Best Korea as well. It screams character and role phishing to me. He even admitted that he’s changing up his method of playing at the beginning of the game, so it’s clear he’s aware of his own behavior.
Sigh... let's break this down.
First, wagon speed means nothing unless you want to admit to being scum for leading a 6 minute wagon on me. It's more about who's online and who's more free with their vote rather than a coordinated effort by scum.
Second, I gave evidence for why claiming the MC doesn't clear you. You blatantly misconstrued this as being the sole reason I wanted to lynch you, which is disingenous at best.
Third, I hesitated to claim because my role loses utility when claimed. Yours doesn't - in fact, according to my research, commuter can't even be roleblocked. In contrast, my role which becomes very strong in MYLO and pre-MYLO situations is now functionally useless.
I also didn't switch onto Barney and BK, I briefly scumread Barney and dropped him afterward, while merely pointing out some scummy aspects of BK's behavior. If you believe it's not possible to focus on more than one person at a time, idk what even to say.
And yes, I am switching up my town play because I've noticed from my past games that it's not working. That doesn't mean I can't point out my own meta, or logically argue why my behavior so far would be horrific play as scum if I was so.
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@whiteflame
I'm not letting Barney get lynched today.
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@whiteflame
I'm not letting Barney get lynched today.
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Oh yeah, and in case it's not already clear, I view Pie as 100% scum based on how he's been pushing me in an unnatural way.
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@whiteflame
Again, I'm not that opposed to being lynched to narrow POE. In fact, if we get to less than 30 minutes left in the DP without a hammer, then I'll do it myself. I think I've helped provoke enough discussion that scum is going to be held to their statements in later DPs, to their detriment.
That being said, I dislike the idea that I'm being lynched because me being lynched as a townie wouldn't be that bad. If someone is going to lynch me, I want them to look me in the eye and tell me that they see me as scum. Lynching me as a "not-so-bad" mislynch is a cop-out.
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@JoeBob
Genuinely think about this for a moment. Am I your preferred lynch choice because my lynch would be the least harmful, or because I'm the most likely to be scum? If I get lynched, you're going to need to be accountable to your future self. Do you think your future self will be happy with the decision that you made here?
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@JoeBob
Ah yes, the worst case scenario you mislynch a townie. Very harmless indeed. My role brings me no benefits from being lynched, it only mitigates the negative consequences of dying immediately.
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@Vader
Please do not vote yet, we still have 5 hours.
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@JoeBob
You've also been in two games where Pie is scum. His playstyle is near-identical. Buddying the majority of the players while "helping" town by driving a single lynch hard. He did this with BK and you in Indie Games, as well as in Wylted's Mafia.
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@JoeBob
I seriously advise you to reconsider. Look at the momentum on this wagon and how it's resisted any effort to tear it down. This is clearly a scum-driven wagon. Moreover, lynching me is not a harmless action. It is literally equivalent to a mislynch mathematically speaking, only it gets delayed a single day.
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@ILikePie5
Odd that you would address that specifically, but yes, I admit that's probably not a great line of reasoning for now.
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@Barney
This BK post feels really inorganic to me. How common have janitors been in past BK games to make him especially worried about them?
Interesting point. This does make me a little bit worried.
My gut says that Austin and BK are the scum team. Austin pushes the BK lynch after the doctor claim, which he knows won’t go through. If BK then fails to doctor then flips scum, Austin gets town cred for having been after him since day 1.
Out of all the scumreads I've made, BK is probably the most consensus compared to my others. I'm not really sure why you think I'd bus him to gain towncred while simultaneously playing like a maniac.
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@Vader
By jumping around, I don't mean you are changing your reads, I mean as in your lynch targets. Sure, you have stated the same targets on who you want to lynch, but you have hopped onto every wagon there is with role claiming and looking at who to lynch. From Pie, to BK, to Barney. Your Pie train was literally a 6 post turn into an L-1 spearheaded by you, then it jumped to BK and then you cried foul when it happened to you.
I think this is somewhat misleading. I pushed Pie out of legitimate reads on him. I didn't push BK iirc. I did gently push Barney, but I regret that and immediately townread him after he softclaimed and got defensive.
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@Vader
I honestly can't really tell what this could be for Austin. For me it seems like it's a desperation attempt to try and get lynch off him at some point. I also have seen him do this a few times before as scum when he was first starting. Granted that was awhile ago and I think his game has evolved, but I think it was only 2 games I personally played with him and seems to contrast. However in the last game, he benefited a lot from laying behind and me and whiteflame did a lot of the bickering. This is a different story here and if he tried to do the same thing I think he would be likely scum read.
IDK man. If you really don't see a difference between my play last game and this game, then I'm not really sure what to say. If you think that I'm trying to get a mislynch by pushing two moderately townread players (Pie and Savant), then I'm a little bit annoyed that you think I would play this blatantly as scum.
Hard to say. I still think Barney is my top candidate solely because of the inconsistency with his role justification being from the characters personality and not power,
I'm not a fan of pushing Barney, but lynching without even asking him for his justification is crazy. Not even mentioning that Lunatic said that the justifications don't necessarily make sense...
but I could see the behavioral reasons as to voting Austin. I also think Austin claiming makes it easier for town to decipher. I also think his role aligns pretty damn well with his character for the most part. However, Austin could be trying to pull a fast one with the Bleeder. Here is what I thinkHis role has a flavor of Bleeder where it also includes DP. I think what is in the realm of possibilities is that Austin can claimed he had been NK'd in like DP2-3 and draw out a mislynch while sacrificing himself. I could see that as a play but could Austin pull it off?
Can you clarify what you mean by this?
Not sure. I think his behavior aligns a bit with scum enough to where I wouldn't have problem lynching him. I'd rather not put the hammer until I analyze the full situation a bit more in depth
That wouldn't really be the worst of all possibilities, I suppose, but I'm not going to let myself get mislynched without a fight.
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@Best.Korea
Any reasoning for trying to get a quick lynch while hampering discussion?
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@Vader
The only thing I don't like about Austin's behavior is that it seems to jump around a lot from his claims. It seems very drastic versus a natural shift, almost as if it's manufactured.
Can you show where I've jumped around? Pretty sure that my reads have been fairly consistent...
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That said, whiteflame knows Austin much better than I do and has outed him before as scum. So if he feels strongly about this, I'd be willing to go with him and let Austin live for at least today. But if we do lynch Austin later and he's scum, that puts some suspicion on whiteflame in my opinion.
Interesting. Savant shows that he's read all the way back to My Favorite Anime Characters mafia, yet claims not to know about the existence of a strongman or roleblocker. Just a note.
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@Savant
Given how confident Austin was about lynching Pie, the fact that he's continuing to push hard seems like a scum strategy. I could see a scum player panicking and sticking to their guns even after making a mistake, fearing that pivoting would be seen as unnatural. Whereas I think a town player would be willing to immediately adjust their accusation based on new evidence. It's not necessarily WIFOM, just an instinctive response. Austin said he would "bet his account" on Pie's claim being fake and entirely failed to deliver evidence for this. We could debate whether a scum player would pretend to act rationally or irrationally, but I think a town player would act more rationally than Austin has been so far.
I tunnel as town and sheep as scum. That's pretty much my meta, and you can check my previous games to confirm it. Do you really think I would still be pushing Pie so hard when I know for a fact it's making me look bad? I could've just dropped it after he claimed, with the logic of "he claimed MC, no CCs, sorry for pushing you". There's reasons why I didn't. Town acts rationally, scum behaves rationally.
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@JoeBob
I am down to lynch either Austin, Pie, or Barney, as none of them stick out to me as scum.Rest of the people can be confirmed or are seeming town to me.
If you're going to choose from that pool, then I would prefer to be lynched rather than Barney. I have my reasons why (and no, it's not because we're both scum). However, I think you should also consider BK. He's been behaving pretty scummy, plus his role is not confirmable at all. It's very easily for him to claim that he got roleblocked, or that his protection got strongmanned, or etc....
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Austin "suspects" me because he thinks I want to frame best Best.Korea. Then he turns around and advocated lynching Best.Korea.
I think you and BK aren't on the same team, but you're both behaving weirdly. That post of yours was really sus, but it doesn't overrride my behavioral tells on BK. It's possible to consider two worlds in which either you're scum trying to frame BK, or you're town and we should push BK instead.
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@Savant
ILikePie5 - Claimed the main character with no counterclaims
It could just be a ballsy fakeclaim, and the role doesn't match up very well. He's also behaved relatively scummily throughout the DP, such as deliberately misconstruing my arguments in order to make my reads seem inconsistent when they're not.
BK - Claimed doctor and arguably second main character in the show, with no counterclaims
Doctor is an easy fakeclaim because none of the other characters have any powers remotely related to healing. Also, you're completely ignoring the many scummy things that BK has done in this DP, such as wagon shopping, attempting to push a lynch without reasoning, etc. I find it strange that you haven't addressed this at all.
Savant - Said multiple times that my role can be confirmed.
I actually missed that. Can you point me out to that post? If so, I will withdraw my lynch attempt (at least for today).
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Also a little bit off-topic, but I just watched the last half of the first episode of Invincible. What the fuck.
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@Best.Korea
Who are your preferred lynch choices?
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Obviously Joebob is trying to help town, but that doesn't actually mean his lynch choice will necessarily be pro-town, despite his best efforts. So no, I disagree with the idea of blindly picking a lynch.
Since we have less than 24 hours left, without a clear consensus, I think we should all put our preferred lynch choices on the table. Personally I would prefer to popcorn this, although idk if we have enough time for that.
My top three lynch choices:
1. Pie
2. BK
3. Savant
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idk maybe Savant just doesn't have experience. But the way he's been playing so far makes me think otherwise a bit.
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Actually that post is sus af. Like he knows he can guarantee an NK on Joebob and is laying the seeds for a chained mislynch on BK.
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@Savant
You really think that in a game literally about superheroes, scum doesn't have a strongman or roleblocker?
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@whiteflame
Yeah, I checked afterward and it corresponds to how it's usually done. I also was thrown off by Lunatic's weird PM phrasing. Instead of saying that I survive an additional phase, he mentioned that I get "revived" for an additional phase. I guess that's functionally equivalent tho.
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The more I think about it, the more I feel that Greyparrot has to be town, just through simple reasoning. Consider, if the following three propositions are true:
-Greyparrot's role corresponds to Dupli-Kate and Dupli-Kate only
-Dupli-Kate is a protagonist
-Greyparrot confirms his role
Then he must be town, since Lunatic mentioned the themesplit is protagonists vs antagonists.
#2 has to be true, #3 can be confirmed tonight. That leaves #1, but I did some research and I can't find any other character who would have something remotely similar, except Multi-Paul, who isn't in the game. Maybe someone with more knowledge can fill me in.
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@Savant
I command 5 Kates Every night I can send out any number of these duplicates to probe another player The targeted player will get a message saying they have been probed... If anyone visits the probed player that night I will know there was a visit but won't know who it was from and the Kate used for probing will be lost.... If all five Kates are lost I will immediately die and lose the game so I must use my probes wisely. I can send out multiple Kates each night but I can't call them back until the next night and can only do so if the probed player was not visited...
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Intuitively I feel that either Pie or BK is lying about their role. Doctor and Commuter are basically the strongest possible protective roles (unlimited protection of others and unlimited self-protection respectively). A Bodyguard or Jailkeeper would make more sense imo. Not really any actual evidence, just my feeling in terms of game balance.
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