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@RationalMadman
Because he's an Even-night roleblocker...?
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@RationalMadman
whiteflame was perfectly aware he could roleblock if his teammate performed the factional kill, he mentioned it in discord several times insofar as blocking your N2 investigation.
Wylted could act on any night, but that's really not as OP as you think. 1-shot means that he can only use 1 out of the 3 abilities, leaving the other 2 wasted. Roleblocker was probably the weakest out of the 3.
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@RationalMadman
Yes, being incapable of doing something does tend to preclude action.
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@RationalMadman
whiteflame was an Even-night roleblocker.
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@RationalMadman
Yes, no, and I deny that, respectively.
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@RationalMadman
?? The game mechanics takes priority over the role mechanics - just like an NK doesn't go through a factional bulletproof. I mentioned in the first post that one faction will always get a kill on odd nights. When it's possible, the role mechanic of needing to visit a player applies - and when it's not possible, it doesn't.
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@Lunatic
That sounds pretty reasonable. Redirector seems like a fun one in a rolemad game. I'm a bit more hesitant on framer, generally I think town should only lose if they've really done something wrong - lynching a player who copped guilty is basically standard, regardless of their previous behavior. Lawyer could work.
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@RationalMadman
You're free to share any specific criticism, I'm definitely looking to improve in the future.
Regarding balancing:
-I feel I balanced it pretty well considering multiball is widely considered unbalancable. That being said, I would nerf town's investigative roles slightly if I could do it again (e.g. making odd-night only, limited-shot).
-This type of game is inherently swingy no matter how you do it.
Regarding theme:
-Could you elaborate?
Wylted's team had so much more power than Whiteflame's team and then Wylted's team had an extra NK chance on top of that...
This is the only one that I really disagree with. I think whiteflame's team was definitely more powerful, which was to compensate for Wylted's team effectively getting a choice of the first NK. Stalker was quite a weak role (too weak imo) considered it was basically useless after everyone mass-claimed. Godfather was the real asset - the 1-shot JOAT really isn't as influential as you might think it is. On the other hand, Roleblocker + Ascetic together is an insane scum combo that could have caused some headaches to town if whiteflame had lived a bit longer.
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@ILikePie5
@JoeBob
Thank you, I'm mostly relieved that everything went smoothly.
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@RationalMadman
Ah, but I was one step ahead of you there :)
If there is no majority reached by the deadline AND there are enough non-voting players to potentially reach a majority, I will use plurality voting to resolve.
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@ILikePie5
Yeah, I'm not sure if it was the best, but it was what I decided on after running through a few alternative balancing mechanisms.
Basically:
-I don't want crosskills to end the game too quickly
-Targeting restrictions don't make sense + let the scum know who each other are (bad)
-Factional bulletproof for each mafia faction makes sense
-Wait, but then mafia would know the identity of the other mafia if their night kill didn't go through
-Ok, then I'll give town a factional bulletproof too
-And maybe add in a bulletproof vigilante, because why not?
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@ILikePie5
Ngl, after modding this game, I've realized that cop is kind of a silly role because it allows players to skip the entire social deduction part of Mafia. I'll need to think of something better in the future.
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Yea, I thought through the fakeclaims pretty carefully. I put Miller and Jailkeeper cuz I haven't seen them as scum fakeclaims before, and Motivator and Hider because I think they're some underused roles with the potential for some really interesting fakeclaim shenanigans. Never doing Motivator again, I think half my answers this game were regarding how that hypothetical role would work.
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@Greyparrot
@Barney
@Vader
@whiteflame
@7000series
Forgot to tag yall
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@RationalMadman
ngl I just forgot that Whiplash's team had Defender as well since Defender was such a terrible bot. Would've been pretty clever of me to do it, though.
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@RationalMadman
I put it in the first post, but here it is again:
All three factions had a themesplit, but I intentionally made the town one less obvious.-For Mafia Faction 1, the themesplit was "bots from teams with multiple bots." This one's pretty self-explanatory.-For Mafia Faction 2, the themesplit was "bots with non-traditional spinning weapons." Whiplash has a blade combined with a lifter, Minotaur has a wide drum, and HUGE has a blade literally as big as its wheels.-For Town, the themesplit was "bots with a large fanbase."
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@RationalMadman
Not quite sure what you mean by that?
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Anyway I'm off to do homework. If you have any questions about the game or want feedback on how you played, just give me a tag. I hope you had as much fun as I did.
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General thoughts on the setup: the swinginess was absolutely insane, I did not anticipate that the night actions would become so chaotic. I think it was a bit townsided in terms of how many power roles there were, but on the other hand, town was constantly near MYLO, so I think it's roughly fair. For reference, standard numbers for multi-ball games without PRs are 2-2-9.
And now, just for fun, the top 3 best and worst plays of the game:
Best:
3: RationalMadman copping whiteflame. Really just excellent intuition, not much else to say.
2: Barney tracking ijb1. I'm not really sure what was the reasoning behind this (I certainly would have tracked JoeBob instead), but it gave town a free lynch on the most hard-to-read player.
1: RationalMadman solving the entire game mechanically. I mean, I knew the flips gave a lot of information, but still, it took some pretty impressive thinking to figure out exactly what happened on each night.
Worst:
3: 7000series. Nuff said.
2: Wylted claiming daycop - not only is that a bastard role, it makes no sense with the setup. Also, there was a lot of risk and almost no reward - all he did was get a scummy player lynched a bit earlier.
1: RationalMadman voting Best.Korea. I nearly choked when I saw that - if Greyparrot had been a little bit less careful than 5 DPs worth of work for town would have completely ruined. Never rush MYLO.
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Well, this was one heck of a game - and it had quite a bit. I'll go through the setup, theme, night actions, and then my personal analysis.
Setup:
Mafia Faction 1:
FAKECLAIMS: Tantrum
FAKECLAIMS: Jailkeeper, Miller
ijb1 - You are Hydra! You are considered the best flipper bot in Battlebots, and are capable of launching opposing bots up to 15 feet in the air. You carefully choose your opportunities before you strike. Because of this, you are the Odd-Night Stalker. You may target one player per odd night to learn their role, but not alignment, flavor, or modifiers. You may also perform a factional kill on even nights ONLY on the player that you personally stalked the previous night. You win with your mafia faction.
Once the other mafia faction is eliminated:
You may stalk on any night. You may perform the factional kill on any night on any player. However, you cannot do both on the same night.
Wylted - You are Fusion! You have two powerful weapons and an unfortunate tendency to catch on fire after big hits. You’re also popular for your entertaining fights. As such, you are the 1-shot Godfather JOAT. You will investigate as innocent to cops. You may use one of the following abilities once per game:
-Ninja (don’t show up on investigative reports)
-Strongman (can’t be protected against)
-Roleblocker (target can’t perform night actions)
On odd nights, you may visit a player. You may perform a factional kill on even nights ONLY on the player that you personally visited the previous night.
Once the other mafia faction is eliminated:
You may perform the factional kill on any night on any player.
Mafia Faction 2:
FAKECLAIMS: HUGE
FAKECLAIMS: Motivator, Hider
whiteflame - You are Whiplash! You are known for being one of the greatest control bots, being able to ram, and generally bully opposing bots to the point where they can barely land a hit on you. Once you’ve taken disabled the opposing bot, you flip them over to knock them out. You are an Even-Night Roleblocker. You may target one player per non-killing night to block active actions (but not factional kills). You may also perform a factional kill ONLY on the player that you personally roleblocked the previous night. You win with your mafia faction.
Once the other mafia faction is eliminated: You may roleblock on any night. You may perform the factional kill on any night on any player. However, you cannot do both on the same night.
JoeBob - You are Minotaur! You are small, durable, and hit like a truck. Because of your compact design, you will keep on fighting right up until a KO, regardless of how much damage you’ve taken. Because of this, you are the Ascetic. You are immune to all non-lethal night actions. On even nights, you may visit a player. You may perform a factional kill on odd nights ONLY on the player that you personally visited the previous night.
Once the other mafia faction is eliminated:
You may perform the factional kill on any night on any player.
Town:
Greyparrot – You are Black Dragon! You’re the definition of mid offense, godly defense. On several occasions, you have survived to the end of the match on fire and upside down. However, you usually lose the judge’s decision afterwards. Because of this, you are the Bleeder. If you are targeted during the night, you will die at the end of the next DP. You will not be informed that you are bleeding. You win with the town.
Lunatic – You are Witch Doctor! Your ability is the same as your name – you are a Doctor! You are the Nonconsecutive Doctor. Each night, you can target a player, including yourself. This player will be protected from kills during the night. You may not protect the same player twice in a row. You win with the town.
Vader/Barney – You are Chomp! You are known for a stunning upset victory over the undisputed GOAT of Battlebots, Bite Force. This victory was achieved with an ingenious LIDAR system that allowed you to track the opposing bot’s movement and fire your hammer at them accordingly. Thus, you are the Tracker. Each night, you may choose to track a player, finding out who they visited for the night. You win with the town.
RationalMadman - You are Shatter! You are (in)famous for an incident in which you accused another team of modifying their bot after the pre-match weight check, an accusation that was eventually found to be true. Because of this investigation, you are the Cop. Each night, you may investigate another player, and will receive a “guilty” or “innocent” result. You win with the town.
7000series – You are speed – I mean, Hypershock! You are one of the fastest bots in Battlebots, and no one is a match for your maneuverability. Unfortunately, you’re too fast even for your driver, and tend to slam into the wall half the time. Because of this, you are the Even-night Commuter. On even nights, you may choose to be immune to any and all night actions. You win with the town.
Best.Korea - You are Duck! You’re my favorite bot, despite the fact you’re basically a 250-pound brick on wheels. Your strategy is to ram into the other bot until it breaks, letting nothing, not even the laws of physics, get in your way. And because of how durable you are, this works a surprising amount of the time. You are the 1-shot Bulletproof Vigilante. During any NP, you may message me to become a bulletproof vigilante the next NP ONLY. You will be immune to night kills, and can choose one player of your choice to kill. You win with the town.
Mechanics:
-Each faction gets a single bulletproof which will remain until it is used.
-Factional kills behave as mentioned in the role - not like usual mafia.
Theme:
All three factions had a themesplit, but I intentionally made the town one less obvious.
-For Mafia Faction 1, the themesplit was "bots from teams with multiple bots." This one's pretty self-explanatory.
-For Mafia Faction 2, the themesplit was "bots with non-traditional spinning weapons." Whiplash has a blade combined with a lifter, Minotaur has a wide drum, and HUGE has a blade literally as big as its wheels.
-For Town, the themesplit was "bots with a large fanbase."
Night actions:
NP1:
-ijb1 stalks Joebob
-Wylted visits whiteflame
-Joebob NKs Greyparrot (stopped by factional bulletproof)
-Lunatic forfeits action
-Vader tracks Lunatic (randomized)
-RationalMadman cops whiteflame
-Best.Korea activates vig
NP2:
-ijb1 NKs Joebob (stopped by factional bulletproof)
-Joebob visits Lunatic
-RationalMadman cops ijb1
-Wylted roleblocks RationalMadman
-Lunatic protects RationalMadman
-Barney tracks Best.Korea
-Best.Korea vigs Wylted (stopped by factional bulletproof)
NP3:
-ijb1 stalks RationalMadman
-RationalMadman cops Barney
-Barney tracks ijb1
-Lunatic protects Barney
-Joebob NKs Lunatic
NP4:
-RationalMadman cops Joebob
-Barney tracks Best.Korea
-Joebob NKs Barney
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Feel free to chill here until I put up endgame - there's quite a bit of content.
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Joebob was lynched. He was... innocent!
Just kidding, he was guilty.
Endgame up soon
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@RationalMadman
A careful reading of mechanics and flips will reveal the answer. Can't say more without giving info I didn't intend for town to know.
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Vote count:
Joebob (2/3): Best.Korea, RationalMadman
Best.Korea (1/3): Joebob
A reminder that not all fights are good fights, but some are hilarious. You really have to see this one.
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@RationalMadman
All I can say is that I'm never running multiball or non-standard factional kills again :/
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@RationalMadman
Yes and no respectively (except if their active power modifies their nightkill, such as a Strongman or Ninja).
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@RationalMadman
Say team 1 kills on even nights.
On an even night:
-1 player can perform the factional kill (forfeiting any abilities in the process, unless it modifies the factional kill)
-The other player can use their ability if it isn't used to set up the factional kill; otherwise, they may not use their ability
On an odd night:
-Both players may use their ability as usual
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Vote count:
Joebob (2/3): RationalMadman, Best.Korea
Best.Korea (1/3): Joebob
"Malice still going face-first!"
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@ILikePie5
I'm pretty sure that ijb1 would be willing to join if you opened it up to 12.
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Threatening to bait a modkill is treated as equivalent to a rule violation, BTW.
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@Best.Korea
"Don’t do anything else that gives you an unfair advantage, even if it’s not explicitly stated in the rules. It won’t make you clever, but it will get you modkilled."
If you, or anyone else for that matter, gets modkilled, I will end the DP immediately. Do not do this.
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@RationalMadman
if scum were motivated would they gain their non-killing power a night they wouldn't on top of their kill?
As I mentioned several times, motivator simply doubles any ability the next night.
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@RationalMadman
In hindsight, I realize I worded that poorly, so yes, I will clarify. By only being able to be used on non-kill nights, I mean that they cannot kill and use their ability on the same night.
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@RationalMadman
No - they still keep their role. That's really all I can say about the setup without giving an unfair informational advantage.
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Vote count:
Best.Korea (1/3): RationalMadman
"Look at the sheer recoil on uppercut!"
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@RationalMadman
Based on the standard rules for Motivator, it would also give Mafia an extra night kill the night after motivation.
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@RationalMadman
@Greyparrot
@Best.Korea
@JoeBob
Who is the imposter??????
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Welcome to Battlebots Mafia! This will be themed around Battlebots, a popular reality TV show which will get us in trouble with our future AI overlords. Have fun!
Flips:
Lynched DP1:
7000series – You are speed – I mean, Hypershock. You are one of the fastest bots in Battlebots, and no one is a match for your maneuverability. Unfortunately, you’re too fast even for your driver, and tend to slam into the wall half the time. Because of this, you are the Even-Night Commuter. On even nights, you may choose to be immune to any and all night actions. You win with the town.
Died NP1:
(no one)
Lynched DP2:
whiteflame - You are Whiplash! You are known for being one of the greatest control bots, being able to ram, and generally bully opposing bots to the point where they can barely land a hit on you. Once you’ve taken disabled the opposing bot, you flip them over to knock them out. You are a Roleblocker. You may target one player per non-killing night to block active actions (but not factional kills). You may also perform a factional kill ONLY on the player that you personally roleblocked the previous night. You win with your mafia faction.
Died NP2:
(no one)
Lynched DP3:
Wylted - You are Fusion! You have two powerful weapons and an unfortunate tendency to catch on fire after big hits. You’re also popular for your entertaining fights. As such, you are the Godfather 1-shot JOAT. You will investigate as innocent to cops. Additionally, you may use one of the following abilities once per game: Ninja, Strongman, Roleblocker. On non-killing nights, you may visit a player. You may perform a factional kill ONLY on the player that you personally visited the previous night. You win with your mafia faction.
Died NP3:
Lunatic: You are Witch Doctor! Your ability is the same as your name – you are the (Nonconsecutive) Doctor. Each night, you can target a player, including yourself. This player will be protected from kills during the night. You may not protect the same player twice in a row. You win with the town.
Lynched DP4:
ijb1: You are Hydra! You are considered the best flipper bot in Battlebots, and are capable of launching opposing bots up to 15 feet in the air. You carefully choose your opportunities before you strike. Because of this, you are the Stalker. You may target one player per non-killing night to learn their role, but not alignment, flavor, or modifiers. You may also perform a factional kill ONLY on the player that you personally stalked the previous night. You win with your mafia faction.
Died NP4:
Vader/Barney – You are Chomp! You are known for a stunning upset victory over the undisputed GOAT of Battlebots, Bite Force. This victory was achieved with an ingenious LIDAR system that allowed you to track the opposing bot’s movement and fire your hammer at them accordingly. Thus, you are the Tracker. Each night, you may choose to track a player, finding out who they visited for the night. You win with the town.
Mechanics Information:
Everything from the first DP still applies.
Rules:
- Don’t CP from PM’s or pretend to do so.
- Cease posting when you are dead.
- Do not contact other players outside of the thread or approved chats.
- Respect the site rules, and other players.
- Do not edit or delete posts.
- Don’t do anything else that gives you an unfair advantage, even if it’s not explicitly stated in the rules. It won’t make you clever, but it will get you modkilled.
Living Players:
1. Best.Korea
2. Greyparrot
3. RationalMadman
4. Joebob
Deadline:
This DP ends 72 hours from the first player post in this thread.
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Vote count:
ijb1 (4/4): RationalMadman, Best.Korea, JoeBob, Greyparrot
ijb1 was lynched. He was.... guilty!
Submit night actions within 24 hours.
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It's hard to get a sense of your debating style with this much to go off of.
Generally, for your first speech (which I believe is the most important for learning how to write pure logical arguments), you should simply put a few contentions. To really oversimplify it, a contention is a paragraph with a CLAIM (the central thing you want to prove), WARRANT (reasoning), EVIDENCE (concrete facts/statistics supporting the reasoning) and IMPACT/GROUNDS (the consequence of your claim, and why it matters.
For example, say the topic is "We should ban junk food in schools."
Your first contention might look like this:
CLAIM: Serving junk food in schools leads to poor health later in life.
WARRANT 1: Serving junk food in schools is correlated with obesity.
EVIDENCE 1: A study showing that schools that served junk food had higher rates of obesity than ones that didn't.
WARRANT 2: Childhood obesity leads to worse health outcomes later in life.
EVIDENCE 2: A study comparing health outcomes of people with childhood obesity and those without.
IMPACT: Under the opposing side's plan, people would die.
GROUNDS: People dying is bad.
And your next few contentions would cover other aspects of the topic - make sure not to overlap. For example,
Contention 2: Junk food is more expensive than healthy food, costing educational funds.
Contention 3: Serving junk food creates a bad precedent for public health programs.
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