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@sui_generis
@Lucky
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@Danielle
I have an old reads list back in #113.
I know there's been a lot happening since then. I've had to deal with an emergency from my GF, so have less time to nit-pick every post (thought I'd be starting to hang out with her tonight, not yesterday afternoon). My attention is also divided between two of these games happening at once, my GF, and teaching an English class (don't ask).
You and My biggest updates have you you and Airmax showing up.
Who I would be willing to lynch today... I'm less worried about the lower activity of some players, as I understand time sinks quite well (such as Airmax will probably only post mornings and evenings, until the weekend). I presume this is why Oro is not posting, as he's busy with two other games of Mafia, one of those being the championship, and this one is in DP1 (I am least worried about inactivity in DP1, so long as people show up).
I assume Zaradi and Coal are not a team, due to their behavior toward each other. ... FYI, expect me to minimize mentions of Coal.
Zaradi did a good post in #273. Seeing the lack of anyone following up, I am guessing other people are seeing something I am not having played with both more. So both Zaradi and Lunatic are people I would wagon on today.
Objectivity insisting we do a lynch, I instinctively find to be scummy, but then the math is shown on why lynching is better... This becomes neutral to me, as I do understand town should make themselves useful to town with such things, and scum should do it to seem like town. Assuming this isn't their first or second game, again, neutral. However, not in my ok to lynch pile.
Sui_G is the only person on my good to lynch (as opposed to just ok to lynch) pile. Sadly my reasoning is going to read as OMGUS. #148 "Ragnar seems more genuine in his oblivion, and thus more town." later counter to that tossing me in his scum pile #195. And between the two: #184 really standoffishly slipping in a VTL, but doing it as stealth without tagging me (yes I know town players do that too, but it's a noteworthy mistake). ... This needs saying again, but when trying to pressure people, if not tagged, they are going to feel a lot pressure.
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@Lunatic
I don't get why people insist on insisting they will "type more later" when they have more availability over and over again. Just wait to post until you can type lol.
This game requires we have patience for peoples lives. Saying they'll post later, is making a commitment, even if it gets annoying to repeatedly read about when trying to catch up. The alternative is for them to seem pressured, and disappear and hope the situation resolves itself. So IMO it's making the best of a non-ideal situation.
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@Danielle
However I do find your post #272 to be a bit weird. "Regarding Airmax and Danielle: I am going to keep my fingers crossed that they're the scum team, and waited as a tactic to get us do their work for them. I know, highly unlikely. . . I assume Airmax doesn't suck at being scum, so I find his OMGUS joke to be a town sign." You immediately unvoted Airmax and acknowledged his schedule, but then said you're keeping fingers crossed that he is scum. Then you said his post was a town sign and you doubt he'd play that way as mafia. If you think he's playing to a town meta then why would you be crossing fingers that he and I are scum...? Sounds like you are just looking at two people to focus on for the same easy reason which has already been addressed
I can do multiple things at once: 1. I cross my fingers for the very unlikely but most entertaining possibility to eventually reveal itself. 2. Admit that it is incredibly unlikely. 3. Activity place someone into my town pile.
Please point out the contradiction?
Plus I hate to insult myself, but I'm way more careful than this when scum. Save for when I argue with people about math or bad quotations, I have end goals layering what I say; making them sound manufactured. Of course that I admit to this, means you may want to get the wine out.
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@Objectivity
I know they have a friendly relationship prior to this game which might explain why they seem to be agreeing with and amplifying each other so much, but could also be a scum tell on both of their parts.
I assume if they're hanging out in the scum chat, they would get a bit more of their energy off. I'd expect them to be a little more reserved regarding each other. So if I coded this into a list of restraints, I would tentatively rule them out as a scum pair.
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@Vader
@oromagi
Regarding misrepresented "20 mins" turnaround... I unvoted in #117, and re-voted in #161, which is 10:22AM to 08:48PM (about 10 and a half hours).
As for the horror of me first giving general advice to a new player in case I was wrong, I'll stand by that in any game. My guess is that were I mafia this time, I would wait much longer, and let the vote occur naturally (or even hope it doesn't, as he would then be an easy mislynching).
Finally the conspiracy theory that I went and conferred with someone, and changed my mind during that short span of time... I hate to reference the outside, but anyone can glance at my forum or chat history, to which I usually take my sweet time composing even unimportant short posts.
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All caught up. Some of my posts are fluff (such as VTLing Press... as some people lack a sense of humor, I will not VTL Speed for showing up in our town).
Regarding the accusation that I am all fluff, I'll humbly point to: #113
Yes I do not leap to conclusions that so-and-so must be scum, I find hysteria distasteful. When we start getting murdered in the night, I hope the easy links to peoples key early actions will prove useful.
Regarding Airmax and Danielle: I am going to keep my fingers crossed that they're the scum team, and waited as a tactic to get us do their work for them. I know, highly unlikely. That said, I don't think I've played with either of them, so they're blank slates to me. I assume Airmax doesn't suck at being scum, so I find his OMGUS joke to be a town sign (doesn't concern himself with blending in, even cracking such a hoke in a game where some players are humor opposed).
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@Danielle
Not voting for me felt a bit contrived since I don't think I was that close to being lynched
You don't think being at L-1, would be close to being lynched? IMO, it's a dangerous place to be.
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@Vader
I've got way too much going on, but good luck.
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@ILikePie5
For the sake of clarity, please just state which questions you actually want included. From there, I'll assume you would prefer any other suggestions be excluded.
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@airmax1227
@Lucky
I'm gona go ahead an OMGUS Sui and Ragnar for fun... pressuring me for inactivity due to employment is uncool... so they are on my scum list for, well, reasons
I'm a firm believer in there being two types of scum. There are mafia who are forced to be scum, and townsmen who choose to be scum. Getting rid of the first is how the game is won, but removing the second isn't so bad.
Of course I did not know you were at work. Sorry about that, i did not mean to be an ass. I'll keep your schedule in mind the remaining days.
Unvote
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@ILikePie5
It could be three if there proves to be desire for such.There are already 2 people supporting it. How many do we need?
For the sake of clarity, do you endorse removing the new CoC from the ballot in favor of incremental revisions to the old, as proposed in #35?
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@Melcharaz
You can consoladate similar points. Example.
Do you see the irony of that statement?
Also, multiple reports of trolling will result in a 24 hour ban.
Most reports are frivolous. Were that a rule passed and blindly followed, some troll could report you a couple times each day calling anything you've done trolling, and you would effectively be unable to use the site.
Probably 5 or 6. 10 votes so far already. @ilikepie5
Please do share this hypothetical list of users who stated total opposition to ratifying a new CoC in favor of slow incremental changes to the old? If they exist, they really should have a voice.
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I'm like four pages behind, and I have some work to do on other parts of the site. If anything important happen, someone please tag me.
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@oromagi
Imagine had User not died. He would have been a perfect easy mislynch later for scum based on his actions, and being a non-testable role. Not that I think we would have ever settled on a different lynch in DP1.
I honestly suspect your OMGUS over reaction yesterday, to be gaming for a mislynch on me later. Today starting with a vote on me, is however fair, as I'm a decent target for any scum pool.
...
That said, with Pie's role reveal, my guess as to the theme is completely shot.
TOWN Role SPECIES SHIP Notes
6) iLikePie5 Jailkeeper Ur-Quan Kzer-Za Dreadnaught
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5) oromagi
4) Ragnar
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@Swagnarok
What would your ideal line on this be?
Also what is your opinion of adding a hyperbole disclaimer to it?
For example, a person might start a debate and argue "Hitler would've gone down as a good leader who made Germany great again if he hadn't started WWII and genocided ethnic minorities."
Elselseworld Hitler would not be targeted by the restriction, as he lives in Elseworld, as opposed to being a member of the real world historic Nazi party. Nor would saying At Least The Trains Ran On Time be considered real advocacy. However, I do see validity to your concern, as that rule is under the zero tolerance Violence and Criminal Behavior policy.
As a related example, I currently have a debate up on the topic of someone Mickey Mouse declared to be LITERALLY HITLER (it was a whole big thing to hype their IMAX release of Inhumans...).
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@ILikePie5
It could be three if there proves to be desire for such. It could also be a hundred questions to slowly morph the old into the new. I went minimalistic, with presenting two questions about it to be built upon as necessary (#2 being a question about one part which I predicted could be controversial).
And I do hope you don't mean the proposal from #35, which accidentally managed to remove ratification of the the new CoC from the docket, opting instead for incremental changes to the old.
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@DebateArt.com
Would it be possible to allow moderators to change more debate settings? Specifically, the time for arguments and time left for voting.
Take for example: https://www.debateart.com/debates/1989/capital-punishment-should-be-banned-in-the-united-states
There are one week arguments, of which one of the participants being banned will not attend. Following that, there's a one month voting window, which since it's a true full forfeit by one side, could be resolved in the first day (this being a mediocre case of that, as there are ones set for six months).
If doing this, it would be ideal if an automated comment were posted stating the change and who made it, to give full transparency.
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@Danielle
You're being pressured for activity. You're at 3-votes right now, two more and you're lynched. To avoid accidents, I am not placing a vote.
Even a "hello" would be a massive improvement.
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@Melcharaz
Thank you for showing us that Scratch website. I'm not sure the relevance, it seems pretty nonsensical, but no harm done.
From our CoC:
"SpammingPosting or bumping spam threads, comments, or replies is prohibited. Spam is any content which is nonsensical or excessively repetitive."
Note the lack of the word "necro." That said, "excessively repetitive" does constitute a CoC violation.
I managed to find an old necropost which someone reported: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/287-quotes-that-define-members?page=1&post_number=11
bump lets revive this
Clearly the user in question is interested in the topic, and the topic itself was not spam. So no CoC violation. And yes, had he gone to a bunch of old threads all at once the repetition of that would reduce it to spam.
As for the word "nonsensical," cracking down on every minor incident of that would be severe abuse of powers. Take for example that someone reported #5 above; it's not the Henry V Speech of posts, but it's not disruptive or otherwise harmful. I'm no mind reader, but I would guess it's a concise way to point to a potential issues of the title which if over-reacted to would make this whole thread nonsensical thus semantically could be called spam.
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A member has emailed in some suggestions. There's a lot, but to start a bigger one, to which a number of their other suggestions follow this pattern...
Changing from:
Harassment
- Targeted harassment of any member is a bannable offense, as is inciting others to do so on your behest. This includes wishing or hoping that someone and/or their loved ones experiences physical harm.
- Creating threads to call-out specific users qualifies as targeted harassment, as does obsessive attempts to derail unrelated topics with impertinent grudges. However, calling people out for their statements within a discussion, is fair game.
- Threats of lawsuits are not allowed, and by using this site you agree to waive any rights to file civil suits against fellow site users for any non-criminal actions.
- If a member politely requests that you leave them alone, do so. Repeated failure to comply, is a clear aggravating factor toward the content of said posts.
Changed to:
HarassementTargeted harassment of any member is a banning offense, along with inciting others to do so on your behest. This includes the following, of which may be added to in the future.
- In wishing or hoping that someone and/or their loved ones, friends, or family experiences physical harm.
- Creating threads to call-out specific members will qualify as targeted harassment, along with obsessive attempts to derail unrelated topics with your impertinent grudges. However, calling people out for their statements within a discussion, is fair game.
- Threats of lawsuits are not allowed, and by using this site you agree to waive any rights to file civil suits against fellow site members for any non-criminal actions. If a member politely requests that you leave them alone, do so. Repeated failure to comply is suggestive of the need for a restraining order to said member, which moderation can enforce at their discretion.
I'm not against an introduction sentence, followed by a numbered list. It's a good format. A problem I foresee is over specification, and people getting caught up in semantics when small changes are made. Like if the list is increased to 6 points, and what used to be #1 is now #3 due to new more urgent points, some Karen will complain that they were punished under the old point #1, when they never did the crime of the new #1. (I know it's unavoidable, I just want to minimize that problem)
Anyone care to share any thoughts on this?
And yes, I owe this contributor a beer; a six-pack in fact.
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@Swagnarok
In another thread you stated (#6):
"Advocacy in favor of any hate group or their mission is likewise prohibited."No. Take this one out. "Don't advocate genocide" is fair, but for one thing nobody can really agree on what a hate group is and also it unreasonably limits the parameters of open debate.
The current line of the new CoC currently reads as follows:
You may not threaten or promote violence against an individual or group of individuals, which includes terrorism or violent extremism. Advocacy in favor of any hate group or their mission is likewise prohibited.
What would your ideal line on this be? While we want people to have the freedom for controversial debates, we don't want this to become a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
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Regarding the dashboard, I don't care for him always putting himself above the town. That said, I've played enough games to know he starts to morph it when there's real town/scum reads. Right now everyone is in a grey area in the middle, based on nothing more than activity.
oromagiTOWN Role NotesLunaticCoalObjectivityRagnarZaradisui_generisairmax1227DanielleSCUM Role Notes
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@Objectivity
Negative utility for town for sure.
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@Zaradi
what do you like about oro's readlist? What do you think about the pressure coal and I have been putting on oro for his readslist?
I make no secret that I love Oro's lists, to the point that you'll probably see me copy/paste and amend it as things progress. As for the pressure, I don't think it's evidence of a scum team, such would be too obvious (plus as Coal confessed, he hasn't bothered checking his PMs to know if he's town or otherwise who his scum partner is).
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Reads (not the best, I know):
airmax1227 -
Danielle -
Lunatic - Insider knowledge that most people are Vanilla #6, or he read the OP. His #14 is worth reviewing.
coal - Fun loving (#17), who I assume has played a lot of games with masons and not read the OP (#33). ... Here's the thing, he doesn't even know if he's scum yet, so trying to predict him now is useless.
Objectivity - First person to start digging for roles #12, but seems to be in jest. Offers a useful calculation in #19. Gives reads in #60.
Zaradi - First person to make a real accusation (#44).
sui_generis - Looking forward to his mathematics (#13), but as I assume he doesn't suck, offering such is a neutral action.
Ragnar - He's scum more often than not.
oromagi - I like his lists, and don't think anything of him placing a random vote.
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@oromagi
Generating reactions is important. Having watched some of his long delayed responses while he was on, makes me wonder if he was waiting for feedback from a buddy. And finally reading up on the lore, Yehat defected to the hierarchy; a civil war later split them into two groups, with one still loyal to our enemies (https://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Yehat_Royalists).
And yes, I do believe our host revealed who the enemy is (#29).
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@Discipulus_Didicit
@User_2006
I don't think things are going to progress further on DP1. So considering my earlier analysis (#90), and only one person scum slipping since then...
VTL User
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@Speedrace
My first real game of Mafia. You were running the game, and Supa was my scum buddy. It was an invaluable experience.
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@User_2006
Next time you play, I suggest being a bit of a lurker (just not a pure lurker).
Also if you're not scum this time, I hope you get to be one soon; as it's an important perspective in understanding the game.
As a hypothetical imagine you're scum, and I just outed myself as Bulletproof. You now know not to target me. Similarly, if I out myself as Vanilla, I'm also a waste to target (less so than bulletproof, but still not ideal). Imagine then that Speed and Press also out themselves as Vanilla. That would tell you to narrow your eyes toward the dessert section to kill the town power roles.
Of course people do lie about their roles, but there's a general rule of Lynch All Liars (which is to say that baring no better tell, we'll start lynching the people who have been caught in any lies).
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@Vader
@Speedrace
Thank you again for having been good teachers.
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5) oromagi
TOWN Role SPECIES SHIP Notes
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4) Ragnar
6) iLikePie5
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@Zaradi
Hey why not play the game instead of talking to people who aren't in the game?
It was a joke at his earlier presence, to which I specifically did not tag him.
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There's one person here, whom I guarantee is not town!
VTL PressF4Respect
😎
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Wow, we have two games happening simultaneously!
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@Melcharaz
If you prefer the old CoC, vote against the new. You may even write your own, and gather support for what you believe would be ideal.
Right now, you insisted there "We will have 3 more at the most" changes between the old and the new (for a total of 4), against my estimate of "a hundred or so." If you're right, put your money where your mouth is, by doing a document comparison. Given that the new is about half the length of the old, I'm confident in my ballpark estimate.
All this said, if other members want the questions further separated akin to your proposal, I'm game for that.
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@DeusVult
Jesus could have more easily appeared to them himself. Instead he required that they first obey the teachings of a woman who was serving in Persona Christi, at his direct command. She made them disciples of his rebirth.
As for if him telling someone to do something makes them not count as having the authority required to obey that commend, the same could be said of every disciple he gave orders to at Galilee.
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@Melcharaz
Microsoft Word has a comparison tool. Please tell me how many changes it finds? I've estimated over a hundred, you've estimated four at the most.
All of this is when I've demonstrated perfect willingness to add more questions, so long as multiple users support them (as seen with Discipulus_Didicit's proposal).
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@skittlez09
A prolonged way to say referendum. Basically next week people will be invited to vote on site policy issues.
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@DeusVult
I'm still waiting.
🤦🏻♂️ *facepalm*
This is Jesus Christ post resurrection, making a woman the very first person granted the authority act in his place to do something. Disliking women in favor of men like Judas, does not change Jesus' documented choice on this matter following his rebirth.
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@DeusVult
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@User_2006
Most of the pressure was already off you.
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5) oromagi
TOWN Role SPECIES SHIP Notes
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4) Ragnar
6) iLikePie5
2) LittleCookie08
3) PressF4Respect
7) Speedrace
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SCUM
UVC
User (3/5) - speedrace, cookie, supa
Press (1/5)- user
Supa (1/5)- oro
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@Melcharaz
To be clear, the census is not the official vote. But with people voicing so clearly their ya and nays, I thought I might as well gather it. I've added your data to the above.
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@oromagi
trigger a full on Galactic War with huge fleets of sophisticated starships trying to take out one unarmed dolphin ship. Great stuff.
Added to my Audible wish-list for whenever it next goes on sale.
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@DeusVult
You're disagreeing with Jesus Christ, on who can act in persona Christi.
In the context of a Mass, it is only a priest who has authority to teach.
Jesus sent a woman to teach the male apostles of the Resurrection. They presumably were not children at the time. If the literal order from the mouth Jesus himself is not adequate authority, I can't imagine what would be.
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@DeusVult
I'm not calling her a priest, but by definition she was a chosen apostle of Christ; literally the first apostle of his resurrection.
From Merriam-Webster:
Definition of apostle1: one sent on a mission2a: a person who initiates a great moral reform or who first advocates an important belief or system
Yet even with agreement that she was the first human whom the reborn Jesus sent on a mission (AKA, the definition of apostle), you ask:
Can you show me where Jesus made Mary an apostle?
And again, others have used evidence that her obeying Jesus was apparently a sin because they disagree with Jesus about if women are allowed to speak or not. Yet Christ himself literally sent a woman with the explicit mission to speak in persona Christi (John 20:11-18). I've been called a heretic for this, but I choose to believe Jesus was not sinning nor leading anyone to sin with this.
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@ILikePie5
@oromagi
@Speedrace
@PressF4Respect
@skittlez09
Would you each mind confirming what in all groups your race is a member of?
As an example, mine is just a member of the Alliance of Free Stars.
Whereas Humans, are
Member of:Alliance of Free Stars (2116-2134),Hierarchy Fallow Slave (2134- c.2159),New Alliance of Free Stars (founder 2155-)
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@oromagi
seems like every time I try to play mafia these days my time gets sucked out into the vacuum of space.
If it makes you feel better, I'll be useless next day phase. On the upside, things with my GF are going well for a change.
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