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@RaymondSheen
You're doing that logical falacy.
No, what really happens is that you cant make up your mind so I really dont have much to say to you who wants to have an insignificant life of a rock. Really, the reason you are insignificant is because you refuse to conquer. Success doesnt come by sitting and doing nothing, but by attacking and fighting. Its too bad that you lost your fighting spirit. You see Imperial Japan nuked and you think "fighting is bad". No, fighting is good even if you lose, and peace is bad as it is both boring and non-challenging. Its the battle which drives progress.
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Cut the healthcare, and we can build additional 2 US militaries.
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@ILikePie5
So now you’re saying there aren’t role blockers?
I am saying there is 1 role blocker and 1 janitor.
Not role blockers alone, and not janitor alone with some useless visiting role. So if Barney is scum, he would have to be role blocker, so when he visited me, he would also role block me. But I wasnt role blocked, which means Barney isnt role blocker and therefore, cannot possibly be scum. Well, we will see how this theory works out, but I simply dont see "Janitor + useless visiting role" on scums team in this setup. I think its janitor + role blocker, since role blocker would be better at causing confusion in town with denying confirmation of roles.
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@RaymondSheen
I didn't say it was "better" (subjective term) not to have ideas
Well, when you make up your mind about what you want to say, come back here. So far all you said was some random rambling about how ideas are useless, how you dont know the definition of "achieve", how ideas commit suicide, how ideas replace their owners... So yeah, you obviously have no point in your arbitrary rambling, and honestly, I like listening to drunk people talk for some time, but you obviously forget what you were arguing for a comment ago, so its not that fun. You can mock actual achievements all you want, but remember that what makes successful people different from you is that they can be you if they wanted to, they just dont want to.
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@AustinL0926
Wowie, thx for forgetting about me dying today
Parrot will live anyway, but same risk would exist if we lynched pie.
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@ILikePie5
You could have so many different combinations that balance it out
There really arent. Standard role blockers alone would be useless against this town set up.
I was thinking which role could scum possibly have to make up for the fact that town has to mislynch 3 times in a row to lose, and then I remembered that the only such role is janitor which I was seen used before in other game.
So janitor + ???
The only role which counters so many confirmable roles besides janitor is role blocker.
Barney obviously isnt role blocker.
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@ILikePie5
How do you know scum has a roleblocker??
Its obvious given the game balance.
Lynch alone favors town greatly. 7 - 2 means that town has over 60% chance of winning even if it just lynched randomly without thinking.
Add to that cop, doctor, austins role...
Thats how I knew scum has janitor. Its obvious, its the only role which makes the game balanced, but they need to have 1 more powerful role, which is why there is no way Barney's role does nothing but visit if Barney is scum.
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@AustinL0926
So tell me, why would Barney do kamikaze on Vader?
If Vader gets lynched and is town, then Barney gets lynched.
Worst possible case scenario for town:
6 - 2
3 - 2
2 - 1
And thats assuming Gp dies on his own.
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@AustinL0926
Savant's role was certainly not "easily confirmable
It is, if it is cop, since cop is almost always in the game.
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@AustinL0926
There is no explanation for how Barney visited me yet I didnt get role blocked.
Scum has role blocker + janitor.
Barney couldnt have done what he did, if he was scum.
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@AustinL0926
If Vader took Savant's role, then Barney wouldn't have that role, and would therefore have no reason to CC.
He cc the character, not the role.
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@AustinL0926
Vader took Savant's role or Barney took savant's role, but only the first makes some sense, and Barney is confirmed by probes, so this was kinda safest bet.
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@RaymondSheen
Suicide of ideas
If you think that its better not to have ideas, then you have already failed, since the path towards goal is built by ideas, unless your goal is something insignificant like mere existence like a common rock, but really, people who have great goals have already left you behind, and you are trying to make others fall with you. Sure, you dont need ideas, but significant people do, so please step back and let the significant people run the world as "No ideas" is not a good way to achieve anything other than death of the brain, so if thats your goal, then really, just dont even think anymore. Just stare at the wall while the rest of us make achievements.
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@RaymondSheen
Hell, define achieve!
People who actually achieve things dont need to define that. It could only be unclear to you if you want to make equal someone's achievement to your lack of, but really, people who achieve greatness already know that they are great, and clearly above those who dont achieve anything, as lack of achievement by itself is a boring life, in addition to being lack of success. Really, I only care about success and if you dont want to succeed, thats your choice, and its a poor choice also when you try to bring others down with you on the path of insignificance.
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@RaymondSheen
Conquer what? Themselves?
If all what you do in life is conquer yourself, then really you might as well not exist and things will be same for you anyway. Your way, that of a coward, is to pretend that you are brave while ironically taking the easiest safest path which takes least courage, and at the same time think that cowards are the ones who actually have courage to attack and conquer while you just sit and hope someone doesnt punch you. I dont see why do you even live if your life just consists of fighting yourself and the urges you have towards young people and men, but I can say for sure that your life is just boring, do-nothing type of life and maybe your courage disappeared with old age or maybe you never even had it.
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@RaymondSheen
Their idea is to destroy ideas.
Okay, thats a stupid idea, so no wonder they never achieved anything significant, as those who achieve something significant are usually those who attacked with ideas and not without ideas.
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@RaymondSheen
Which is why you act like a child
So thats what you are into?
Cowards destroy
No, cowards run away or refuse to attack. It takes courage to act and conquer the world. Cowards dont conquer world. Men who attack, they conquer.
Of course, you are old, so your time has passed, if there ever was "your time".
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@ILikePie5
If Vader gets lynched and turns town, we lynch Barney, obviously.
But if we lynch you and you turn town, the next lynch target becomes a lot less clear.
So I agree that we play the safest possible option and lynch a counter claimed.
Unvote
VTL Vader
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@Greyparrot
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
Seriously, whats up with not lynching Vader?
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@ILikePie5
Vader got innocent on whiteflame.
So if Vader = town, then whiteflame = town
So the only two scums would be pie and barney.
But if Vader = scum, then the other scum can be pie, barney or whiteflame.
But given the results from being probed, I dont see how Barney could possibly be scum.
So in conclusion, lynching pie then Vader is the very safe play, since even if one is town, other has to be scum as there is no other explanation of the given results.
Now, I would kinda prefer that we lynch Vader first, but it seems like it wont happen for some reason.
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@ILikePie5
The fact that there’s a 4/5 wagon on me right now is frankly insane when we have literally caught scum in Vader this DP.
Yes, but some town members are unwilling to lynch Vader, which is confusing, but I dont mind.
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@RaymondSheen
education systems in occidental cultures have been focused on the suppression of ideas in favor of materialism.
Sadly for materialism, ideas are the ones which shape the world, so yes, I am afraid that society without ideas wont get far.
I know that Marx tried to have it backwards, that material world creates ideas, but really, ideas create ideas, and if you want to advance society, you need an idea and not just job and food.
The utility of the learning system which I am suggesting is quite simple: greatest number of ideas can only be achieved by greatest number of thinkers and producers of ideas. So really, any system which reduces number of thinkers is backwards in terms of creating ideas.
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@3RU7AL
but if they start to say things like "that piece of silicone makes me a nursing mother" or "that piece of gold makes me a god" there is a problem.how, how is this a serious problem ?
I have claimed to be God many times on this site, and I guess some people get triggered easily, so its a problem for some people.
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@3RU7AL
this is a genius planhow do we enforce it ?
Thats the difference between goal and a plan.
Most people are capable of spending days thinking of all kinds of goals and end results, all kinds of perfect outcomes, spend all days saying what should be achieved.
However, when it comes to actually achieving those goals, thats where they fail badly, because having a goal is one thing, but the process it takes to achieve it is a completely different thing.
So while Amber has goals, he has no way to achieve them, because his thinking is practically the same thinking people had before. It didnt work, as sending trans kids to "learn how to live off the land" wont make them any less trans, and I dont even see how would it.
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Unvote
VTL Pie
If someone wants to hammer pie, now is the chance.
If you want vader instead, then we need to change our votes.
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@Greyparrot
@Barney
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
@JoeBob
We need to agree who to vote, pie or vader. I have no problem lynching either, but we cant lynch anyone if we split votes.
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Competition of ideas is based on each person who comes up with an idea has to defend it, convince others and even endure attacks on his idea and even attacks on his reputation.
This causes society to be divided in two groups:
1. Those who succeed in defending their ideas
2. Those who fail in defending their ideas
Group 2 is usually much larger, and consists mostly of people who no longer give ideas.
Person can either give an idea or receive an idea, and for society, it is better that society produces as much ideas as possible.
However, due to "competition of ideas", this is not possible, as such system encourages people to receive ideas and discourages them to give ideas.
This is especially so in young children.
Parents, in their great delusion, encourage kids to receive ideas, but dont encourage kids to give ideas, because parents are led by false belief that since kids wont come up with good ideas, then that it is better they dont come up with any ideas at all.
However, great thinkers are not those who received ideas, but those who gave ideas.
Thus, giving ideas is crucial in being a great thinker, or in being a thinker at all, and developing such skill as soon as possible is the best.
Thus, children should be most encouraged to give ideas, to become producers of ideas, and not just to receieve ideas.
This is only possible in "Free Mind of Ideas" system, where people are constantly encouraged and expected to come up with an idea, even if that idea is bad. Thus, everyone is told to suggest as much ideas as possible.
In competition of ideas, people try to impose their ideas on others and try to discourage others from coming up with a different idea by attacking them once they do.
However, in free mind of ideas, the goal is not so much to just promote your idea, but that every day, you encourage all others to give ideas and suggestions as well.
This puts others in constant need to produce ideas, as they are always asked to give ideas or suggestions.
Thus, parents who just raise their kid to receive ideas will likely not raise a great thinker, or a thinker at all.
But parents who constantly encourage their kid to think and produce new ideas and suggestions will raise great thinkers, since the quality of all great thinkers is that they produce new ideas and suggestions, that they use their own thinking.
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I guess I am fine voting either scum, so who do we go with first?
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Here is how I see it:
Town:
Whiteflame (its not confirmed yet, but scum visiting Whiteflame kinda means Whiteflame is town)
Joebob
AustinL0926
Greyparrot
Barney
best.korea
That leaves us with only 2 remaining players who are scum.
Scum:
ILikePie5
Vader
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@Greyparrot
Is there a reason we go for Pie first?
If Barney is town, Vader is certain scum.
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Satan revealed to me how society will collapse, and I even get to watch.
The principle is simple, so simple and so obvious that no one figured it out because it was so well hidden in plain sight.
If people are allowed to do something, they are more likely to do it. Simple.
We see people harming society every day and being allowed to do that, and yet no one understood how millions of small daily harms sum up to one great harm to society as a whole.
Lets see the list of what people are allowed to do in modern societies.
People are allowed to:
1. Not reproduce
The most obvious harm to society is lack of new generations, as society cannot survive if no one has kids.
Sure, you could import migrants with lower IQ and raised in poor conditions and thus more likely to be harmful to society, but that is just further decline of your society.
2. Not live healthy
People who dont live healthy dont harm just themselves. They also harm their children, since unhealthy life is socially contagious and even heritable.
3. Not learn
Many people in society take pride in being literally stupid and having brain power of a fish. Since they are not forced to learn and not forced into high level thinking, they spread their inferior reasoning to others in society, since popular opinions take over quality opinions when there is freedom to be stupid.
4. Not contribute to society
Possibly the dumbest move of free nations is that its filled with people who are free to contribute nothing to their nation.
5. Not get stronger
This one sounds silly, but in the past, you were expected to get stronger and advance yourself. Today, you are just expected to cycle between work and rest, or between school and rest, causing many people to be physically weak or fat or not interested in building body.
Stronger also includes mental strength, which as already established, current population has almost none.
6. Not support military
Military is the only reason your society even exists, so freedom to not praise military contributes to military decline.
7. Not care for family
People actually have freedom to not give a shit about their kids, and despite being extremely harmful, its actually very common, and people are even allowed to abandon their kids to foster care.
8. Not sacrifice themselves for society
The worst possible idea that individual can possibly have is that he is more important than society.
9. Not care about society's survival
The very idea that so many people in society dont care if society survives, already hints about how much effort they will put for said society to survive.
10. Not work hard
People are allowed to be lazy, even rewarded for it through welfare.
11. Not indoctrinate children
The basis of all previous societies was to indoctrinate children to continue on the path of building society.
12. Not get punished for harming society
Plenty of people harm society every day. Smokers, drug users, cheaters, liars... almost none punished.
13. Not defend society, not promote society, not support society
Another very bad freedom is individual being allowed to not defend or support the country he so comfortably lives in.
14. Not think about how to improve society
This one is extra bad, because society cannot progress if no one has a plan on how to improve it. People today lack any plan, they just have imaginary goal with no idea on how to achieve it.
15. Not advance society technologically
Most people arent even capable of useful thoughts, let alone some technological discovery, but they often punish the smart people by calling them nerds and weirdos, which speaks volumes about their priorities.
16. Have too much compassion
Compassion often blinds people. People often do what is called as "harmful helping" or "helicopter parenting". They help others too much, so others grow dependent on them, which increases both welfare drain and social addictions such as following whats popular.
17. Give birth later in life
Probably the most idiotic freedom. Children who are born late just have great increase in amount of disorders.
18. Spread false information
The idea that someone can have free speech and talk lies just means someone else will believe his lies, increasing disorders in society.
19. Live at the expense of others
Probably the most ridiculous of all freedoms, but apparently, millions of people in USA are unemployed and live at the expense of others.
20. Hate his own society
If people are allowed to hate their society, then such society will have lots of people who hate it, which increases risks of civil wars or bad politicians being elected.
21. Move to other country
If people are allowed to leave society which created them and made them wealthy, and also send all money to other country, it adds a little bit to a decline.
22. Reward for being a victim, encourage victim's mentality
Being a victim is bad and by logic, bad things shouldnt be rewarded, or they are encouraged and people will pretend to be victims just to get rewarded.
23. Encourage coward's mentality
World belongs to the brave. By encouraging people to be cowards, it just means much less people make risks to improve society, and therefore society improves much less.
24. Encourage defensive mentality
Defensive mentality is one of the least useful mentalities for survival.
World belongs to those who take action, and the only reason you are alive is because your ancestors fought for survival and didnt just sit and wait.
25. Encourage weakness
Obviously, society should be made of mentally and physically strong people. But this society encourages weakness and coward's mentality through giving freedom and teaching incorrect lifestyle, such as playing video games all day, being fat or skinny, being withdrawn from society and not even having a social life, and even being afraid of challenges and new people.
26. Take from society more than he gave to society
Society survives because individuals give to it more than they take from it. But now, you have a situation where people take all comfort society gave them only to talk shit online and be useless in all areas of life.
27. Divorce
The idea that people are allowed to divorce and destroy their family and make their children into a more likely to be criminals and worthless members of society also adds to collapse.
28. Have too much luxury
Luxury is not a sign of prosperous society. Rather, the more wealth an individual has, the less wealth goes to defending and advancing society.
29. Promote ideas which harm society, promote behavior which harms society
Socially contagious behaviour is often that which harms society, and it is of no surprise that in this society, promoting such behavior is rewarded with social approval and with being labeled as a fun joke or a popular thing.
30. Put value of individual above value of society
There should never be a scenario where value of individual is above that of society, so any time society and individual come in contradiction, society should win. Today, it isnt so, as society is harmed so that individual can have fun.
31. Increase disorders, reproduce disorders
People are allowed to give birth even when fetus has severe disability and will be nothing but burden on society for decades, and by logic, the more people with disorders there are, the more such people will reproduce, and increase amount of disorders.
32. Waste society's resources
People are allowed to waste lots of resources on having fun and on useless activities.
33. Allow enemy to spread his propaganda in society
With free speech, enemy can spread his ideas into your society and keep trying and attacking until he destroys it.
34. Break rules often, encourage others to break rules
Society works only when people respect the law. But today's society more and more encourages small violations which when they add up, make big violations as their result.
It is not one of these which will cause society's collapse, but its that all of these elements are working at the same time to collapse society.
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But one thing is clear.
Someone visited me and someone visited Whiteflame.
I assume scum has role blocker + janitor.
However, I wasnt role blocked or had any notification about harmful visit except that I was probed.
So anyone who visited me was most likely town.
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@AustinL0926
both be claiming his role
They are not claiming same role, but same character, which is what confuses me.
Maybe Barney thought Gp will die, so he wanted quick win and ccd and misplayed.
Or maybe Vader didnt get character, but only role from Savant.
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@AustinL0926
The flaw with that logic is that if Savant had that role, there would be no reason for Vader and Barney to both be claiming his role unless they're both lying - which doesn't make sense, as they would then be scum on the same team.
Its a bit unclear to me, because there are only these possibilities:
1. Savant was cop
2. Savant was Joat investigator
Savant was obviously not vanilla.
So either Barney either Vader stole Savant's role.
But for some reason, didnt or couldnt steal character, so character got cc.
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Its 6 - 2
So even if we lose 3 players, we wont lose.
Gp wont die because he has one of the probes left. It was a bit strange to send them all out, but fine, it at least confirmed him.
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I dont see why would Barney cc Vader if Vader is town.
Even if we lynch town, we dont lose.
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Also, we know someone visited me.
So who did it? Barney?
And who visited Whiteflame? Vader?
I wasnt role blocked or anything.
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@AustinL0926
It is definitely not. Just claim innocents on moderately townread people and you can get away with fakeclaiming
Savant said his role is easily confirmable.
The only two roles claimed are Joat and cop which could be what Savant had.
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Okay, so vader was counter claimed.
Savant's role was stolen, but it was easily confirmable...
Gp risked and sent all probes at once, but one survived, so he will live.
I guess the lynch is Barney or Vader. We just have to figure out who is most likely lying.
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I protected Joe as I said I would. Protection was successful.
I was probed.
Other than that, I was right that there is a janitor in the game, which means we cant trust new role claims much.
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@AustinL0926
There's a phenomenon in psychology called "the temporal pattern of regret", where new actions that lead to negative consequences tend to be viewed with more regret than inaction that leads to negative consequences. When town gets to MYLO because oopsies-doopsies, we mislynched a townie on DP1, y'all will be kicking yourselves
Its nice that you care for our feelings, but personally, I wont feel regret even if you turn scum, as my ability to feel regret is rather small.
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@TheUnderdog
This topic inspired me, so Satan gave me complete Predicted Victory Plan about how modern societies are headed for certain collapse, and I even get to watch. Collapse cannot even be prevented in any way, so even when I post the plan, it wont change anything.
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@TheUnderdog
Forcing people to conceive is r***.
Those societies have plenty of births.
This is because the world population is growing and people are alarmed by it, so people choose to do their part and not reproduce.
Once their population starts dropping, their economy will go to shit, so it bodes great for them, not that their economy isnt very shitty right now.
But given you are a pedophile (not an insult since you didn't act on it), but since you aren't attracted to adults, you won't reproduce, and therefore, if you advocate mandating that people reproduce, then you are a hypocrite.
Pedophiles can reproduce, but I wont reproduce since I have a freedom not to and it would take too much work on my part to reproduce. Of course, it would be good for society if everyone reproduced, if everyone tried to be healthy, if everyone tried learning a lot and worked to increase knowledge, but someone thought it was a good idea to allow people to not reproduce, not live healthy and not learn, so yeah, its just society slowly destroying itself and I even get to watch its collapse.
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