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@ponikshiy
I was saying to build self esteem by telling them they are good enough as they are.
Which again means "convincing it that it shouldnt be what it wants to be.".
There is no self esteem being built when you tell a person it shouldnt be what it really wants to be.
Thats an attack on their goals, not a defense of.
Find 20 Christian people and come out to them as gay.
Lol
There are quite enough Christian people here talking against homosexuality.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Did you change your avatar for that?
Yes, I got the idea from this conversation.
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You have brought peace and security to your new empire?
Yes.
How about you retract your slanderous lies against GP and myself.
I retract all my lies about GP and you.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I think it does, but I would express it even if it didn't
Well, its great to be you.
Now, I think our little contest in recent time has gone a bit too far, so here it goes.
I am ending the insult war.
You can insult me, but I wont insult you anymore, as really, its no longer funny as it was at the start,
And I dont really wanna be spending the time trading insults with you when I have research to do.
So there you have it.
Now we can have peace.
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@Greyparrot
yep.
Still no argument from you?
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@adreamofliberty
You give your opinions, do you think they affect others somehow?
Probably. I assume there are normal people who like what I say.
Do you think that there are normal people who like what you say?
But that doesnt really answer my original question to you.
You dodged once.
Do you think that your contempt affects me somehow?
Common, answer it this time.
Or is the answer too painful?
I guess it will just take a bigger brain than you've got to figure it out. Not like it has been (and will continue to be) pasted all over the place
You are still on with the copy paste...
It seems that your contempt affects your life much more than mine.
Personally, I have been insulted many times in life, but it never occured to me to go around copy pasting about it.
Like, you are putting effort into something which looks more like a joke than an actual comeback.
And all because of that one little indirect insult...
Oh well, I probably shouldnt have triggered you so hard to make you copy paste all over the place.
Contrary to the popular belief, I do have empathy towards you.
I dont consider you my equal, obviously, but I dont really want you to be suffering this much either.
So what if you promoted civil war and total destruction of society?
It doesnt mean you should be treated this badly.
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@ponikshiy
I already stated proof that it turns children into criminals on average.Theb why did you directly state that spanking curbing negative behavior was an assumption?
I dont see what you dont understand about the above statement,
but I am not exactly payed to teach you.
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@ADreamOfLiberty,
I'm not defending greyparrot I'm expressing my contempt for you.
And you assume your contempt affects me somehow?
Its like you are angry at me for some reason.
You blocked me, but still respond to me even when I am not even talking to you.
Oh well.
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@Greyparrot
Objective morality is one that survives.
That would be your assumption, where you assume that survival determines whats good.
Survival doesnt determine whats good.
Survival just determines who survives.
It still follows that even if I dont survive, if I consider reproduction bad, reproduction is bad according to my standard.
Even if my standard doesnt survive, it is still better than your standard, because morally best people are morally best even if evil people kill them and only evil people remain.
Even non-existent society is better than this society.
It does not take great thinking to conclude that evil survived up until today, so by your logic, any evil that survived till this day is actually good.
The main reason why the civilizations that practiced ritual child sacrifice are no longer around is because their moral code was unfit for propagation of the species. With the death of the species goes the moral code
Yes.
And you assume your moral code is good because it existed for longer?
So rapists who survive till this day are morally justified because they survived and managed to increase their numbers?
Its interesting how Christianity always ends up justifying rape.
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@ponikshiy
No, that is a strawman
Thats what you claimed.
That you will build self esteem of a child by convincing it that it shouldnt be what it wants to be.
I already explained that Christians are not really best at building self esteem of others, nor do they know what the word means.
Jesus commands his followers to love homosexuals. You know better
And yet his followers in his name talked against homosexuals?
Only in Christianity, the word "love" means "attack you until you do as I say".
There is no love in Christianity.
Christians dont love anyone.
They just abuse and provoke.
And then, when the world hates them because of their annoying nature, they think world hates them because they are good.
You actually have to have layers of delusion to not see how Christians are destroying themselves and others,
But religion has delusion as one of its premises:
"No, its silly to ask for proof."
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@Greyparrot
I see that you ran away from defending your argument, which is typical for you.
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@Greyparrot
Another instance of the laws of Darwin being vindicated
Yes, but thats not the topic.
If your point is that one should be immoral and have children just so that immorality survives, you can start a topic about that.
But I think this topic is really derailed enough at this point.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Dont defend greyparrot.
If he cant defend himself or his arguments, then really, he wont profit from you helping him all the time.
He needs to learn to do it on his own, and he cant do that if you wont let him do that.
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@ponikshiy
We are talking about a child.
Is this a child you own?
If you don't see why I am saying we should build up the self esteem of a child than you need Jesus.
So you assume that you will build self esteem of a child if you bother it until it gives way to your will?
You can call religion a crutch if you want to, but clearly you struggle with ethics if you would Stan idly by why your child has low self esteem
I dont have children.
Having children is immoral.
Only immoral people have children and desire to manage their lives according to parent's will, acting like you are raising an obedient monkey and not a thinker.
So it is of no great surprise that most children from religious families are obedient monkeys.
I even gave a chance to Christianity.
I argued for it.
I believed in it.
I almost got banned because I followed Jesus's command of hating gays.
And other than few funny moments, the Christianity has nothing.
Its a nonsense which survived for long because idiots believe in nonsense.
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@Greyparrot
Minors cannot legally consent to to anything.
And from this fact you draw which logical conclusion?
That anything child wants should be forbidden?
That anything affecting children should be banned?
I dont even need to say it takes a really weak mind to have as much inconsistency as yours is able to produce.
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@ponikshiy
where you think it is an assumption that negative reinforcement works to curb behavior.
I already stated proof that it turns children into criminals on average.
I guess we are just supposed to trust you that some of your imaginary way of spanking works better than other ways, so that you can feel better about not being able to give actual evidence.
if you didn't believe spanking effected behavior in any way than you would literally destroy the o ly premise you presented for banning spanking.
Am I speaking Chinese?
I clearly said that spanking effected behavior... in a negative way, not in effective way.
I dont see why you feel such an overwhelming urge to rationalize hitting child's butt as a rational human behavior and deny all studies and all alternative methods.
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@ponikshiy
Associating immediate pain with harmful decisions Is a more effective tool than getting timeout when the kid gets home from the store and has already forgotten what he did wrong.
Thats your assumption, which is unsupported by any evidence.
Also, you have an incorrect assumption that a child needs to be punished for every bad behavior.
I dont even know how does one develop such a mentality where he treats children as criminals who dont even get fair trial, but yes your world view raises criminals.
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@ponikshiy
Yeah just create a path for them to take puberty blockers at 12 and cut their dick off at 16,
I dont detect an argument.
Am I supposed to join you in conversation where you complain about how you cant tell other people what to do with their bodies?
Is that it?
Oh its so bad that you have to respect someone's private choice. Lets cry.
instead of gently persuading them elsewhere and rebuilding their self esteem so they don't think they need to become somebody else.
I dont see why would you do that.
Do you feel like you need to control people and manage their lives?
Because we know from historical evidence that any time Christians manage other people's lives, they just mostly make them worse.
Th moral decay of society is a great argument against Democrats
Anyone thinking republicans arent morally decayed really should just be laughed at.
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@ponikshiy
if you just concedes that properly spanked kids probably have equal or superior outcomes to other forms of punishment but since so few parents can manage to do it correctly that iT benefits society more to just ban it outright
There is no reason to concede to an assumption.
Only an idiot concedes to an assumption.
For example if a kid is reaching for a pan of boiling water on a stove that can permanently disgigure him than yelling timeout because you don't believe in hitting them, will likely not save them from pulling the boiling water on their head.
It amazes me how you cant imagine more than two options in that situation, or any other solution.
A quick smack will have them associate pain with the behavior and immediately stop it, keeping them safer in the future and then there is spanking them enough to make their ass welt, which would accomplish would a quick behind smack would do but leave the child fearing you, sowing distrust and having harmful psychological impacts.
Or you could just not let a child reach a pan of boiling water by reaching out for the child.
There is no situation in which you can hit a child faster than reaching out for the child, since the first is included in second.
You do have ability to prevent a child from doing something without hitting a child.
Its called prediction and prevention.
I dont know how is this a mystery to you.
Additionally, any situation where you leave boiling water in same room where 3 year old is alone just makes you extremely retarded parent.
And extremely retarded parents cant tell when spanking is beneficial and when not.
And really, the idea that you think spanking works better than time out in that situation is amazing, but I really have no time to deal with whatever is going on in your head.
You are co floating parents who do it correctly with those who don't.
I have already explained to you that even if there were parents who do it correctly, there would be also those who do it incorrectly, and they cannot be avoided when spanking is legal.
And banning it completely is better than allowing it, so your assumptions of some "correct spanking" dont work even if true.
They also have no any proof of being true, because statistically, you cannot even account for them.
So your "proof" is reduced to assumption which has no proof to support it.
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Well, when I was a kid,
I spent a lot of time thinking about if God will burn me in fire after I die.
Kids are more likely to believe in assumptions than adults are, even tho many adults fall for assumptions too.
And if my parents didnt tell me about hell, maybe I would spend my childhood in a better more happier way.
It actually took me years to overcome fear of God, even after I realized its just a dumb idea invented by one people to control other people.
And once you realize that common concepts of religion serve human goals, but dont suit anything you would expect from God, then it is easier to overcome the version of God invented by humans.
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@Mall
So in your world,
There is only good and bad,
And good people cannot do anything bad,
And bad people cannot do anything good.
This makes me curious.
What is good according to you?
And what is bad according to you?
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@Mall
Because to be bad, you must do more wrong than right, but dont have to do everything wrong.
You can do few right things along the way.
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@Greyparrot
Why do you always troll with links without text?
No one is going to open your links and waste time refuting them.
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@ponikshiy
You don't have to insult me just because we disagree on whether kids should be transitioned
5 year olds only transition in a sense of wearing specific clothes and make up, and being called the way they want to be called.
Its not really a big deal nor a significant argument against democratic party.
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@zedvictor4
If you debate 100 times, win 90 times, lose 5 times and draw 5 times, your win percentage would still be 90%.
Actually, the site doesnt treat draw as a loss.
If you have 1 win and 1 draw, win rate is 75%, not 50%.
It seems that draw counts as half-loss.
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The main way of transforming someone into a good person isnt, contrary to popular belief:
"You must accept my world view or get punished".
The main way of transforming someone into a good person is through reward system.
"Accepting these premises would give you that and that good things in life".
"If you didnt hurt people anymore, it would make it easier for you to become friends with good people and meet good life partner and find a place in society which gives you peaceful life."
Further, one must understand that individual is a product of society, and placing a child in an environment full of criminals would just bring more criminal ideas into its mind.
The pro-prison ideology must defend the position:
"Being around criminals isnt going to make child more criminal"
When all statistics show contrary.
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No, children are:
Satanists who do wrong as long as it gives them pleasure.
They have no moral standard outside of "this feels good to me, so its good".
Now, you ask if children should be tried as adults.
Obviously not.
If a 5 year old were to take a gun and shoot someone,
punishing a 5 year old with 10 years of adult prison would be obviously absurd,
As it doesnt contribute much to anything,
And children are often abused in prison.
Of course, I maintain belief that every being can be transformed into good person,
And that severe punishments arent means to do that and arent even morally justified.
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@ponikshiy
I would cou ter that in most cases of abusive parenting, these are parents who don't obey the law anyway.
You would assume that, but no.
Studies clearly say that parents who give up on spanking are on average less abusive,
As their children turn out better on average,
therefore making spanking more abusive on average,
As persons who practice spanking are more abusive on average.
So one can say its still preferable to give up on spanking, as spanking is related to more abuse.
The only counter argument possible is that those who spank would, if they give up on spanking, abuse children in some other equal or worse way.
However, countries that banned spanking disprove that assumption.
I think most debate judges would also value freedom over an extremely slight reduction in child abuse
I would say that defending the point that "causing pain to child's butt is freedom" would indeed be a complete nonsense.
Maybe you could say that it gives more freedom to parents in terms of free time.
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@ponikshiy
I will say that YYW now known as coal did a debate on corporal punishment against one of the best if not the best debater on the site and absolutely wiped the floor taking a pro spanking position.
Coal has already lost that debate against me and athias in the forum section long ago.
I dont see the point in reading his cherry picked nonsense.
Studies are not done by cherry picking, where you only take cases of spanking where children turned out fine to conclude that spanked children turn out fine.
Thats circular reasoning.
The reality is that
Spanking includes:
1. Children who are spanked non-properly
2. Children who are spanked properly.
You cannot have spanking in society without both of these cases happening.
Additionally,
Non-spanking includes:
1. Children who werent spanked but were abused in other non-physical ways.
2. Children who werent spanked and werent abused in other ways.
Since we see that non-spanking outweighs spanking by mere deduction,
as non-spanking also means no physical abuse, where spanking includes physical abuse and also any abuse which is also included in non-spanking,
One can only conclude that spanking is harmful.
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@ponikshiy
You would have to compare studies on properly spanked kids vs non spanked
You would think, but no.
"Properly spanked kids" cannot come without "non-properly spanked kids".
Basically, any time you have one in society, you also have the other.
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@FLRW
“I’m automatically attracted to beautiful women — I just start kissing them, it’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait.And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything," he said in the 2005 conversation. "Grab 'em by the pussy."
This is the guy who is a champion of Christianity and family values?
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I know, because my elo didnt reduce or increase in any of the dozens of draws I had.
It would be unfair if it did.
However, win percentage is affected by a tie for some reason, which is something which in my opinion shouldnt happen,
Especially in cases where there are no votes.
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You dont lose any elo in a tie.
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@Mall
Do you need a living society in order to fight for the rights and freedoms of that society?
Yes.
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@Greyparrot
Democrats need the poor to vote for them.
Trump created plenty of poor people in 2020 when he increased unemployment to 15%.
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@Mall
You need a living society in order to fight for the rights and freedoms of that society
You assume one wants to have society.
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@Greyparrot
Are you not going to tell us a conspiracy theory now?
You know, how Putin is the good guy?
Dont forget "them".
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@Greyparrot
Everyone knows Putin wanted entire Ukraine.
Even Putin said so.
Even Putin said so.
Are you saying that your master is a liar?
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@Greyparrot
Nobody believes that lie except you lol
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@Greyparrot
Future revolutionaries!
You think Putin liberated Ukraine and that there should be civil war in USA.
You cant really judge anyone because you are insane.
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We’re living in a country that’s the finest place on earth
But some folks don’t appreciate this land that gave them birth
I hear that up in Washington they’re having an awful fuss
‘Cause Capitalists and spies were making monkeys out of us
They call them up to Washington to speak for Uncle Sam
But when they ask them what they are, they shut up like a clam
I wish they’d take and put me on the witness stand today
I’d yell so loud old Marx could hear me all the way
I’m no Capitalist, let me tell you that very straight
I believe a state should help every child become great
I like this mutual help, I dont want to be left alone
Let the government do its service and let me do my own
Our government is stronger than it ever was today
The more our enemies attack it, the more they have to pay
Our capitalists should be proud and honest you would think
Instead of taking bribes and sending our country the wink
The taxes will go up, of that there is no doubt
The rich will either pay their share or they will be out
Our country's wealth is monster size and growing every day
There is enough money here for each to have his share.
Our Russian enemies used to be the strongest army on this earth
But now Russia cant even match Ukraine army's worth
Putin should stop his embarrassment and give up what he's got
The Americans are winning the war and are yet to fire a shot.
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@Greyparrot
Imagine thinking it's safe to just ask any old question under this current administration
No, imagine this:
You live in a fear of "them",
who you think are really in power,
and you think Trump and Putin are fighting "them"
which makes you support Trump and Putin
and worship them as liberators.
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What if Best.Korea is such a clueless idiot that he went and asked a public API this stuff with his real IP?
You think asking questions isnt allowed.
Asking questions is allowed.
Maybe your parents hit you on the head when you asked them questions?
What if they get a warrant and he's connecting to this site without a proxy? Then they'd see his pedo apologetics.
Debating about these topics is allowed too.
Would it be poetic justice for him to be put on a watch-list because he was brazenly reveling in slander?
One would think that a person promoting civil wars, supporting Putin and insulting rape victims would sooner end up on a watch list than someone who asked a question.
You are probably already on some watch list.
OwO
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Lets ask AI again:
"Is someone who lives all alone since his mother died and has never been with a woman and imagines little Catholic boys a weirdo?"
AI responds:
"It's important to approach this question with sensitivity and respect for others.
Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and feelings, but it's crucial to recognize and respect boundaries and societal norms.
Living alone and not having been in a romantic relationship does not necessarily make someone a "weirdo."
People have different life experiences and circumstances that shape their social interactions and relationships.
It's important to avoid making assumptions or judgments based on limited information.
However, if someone is fixated on inappropriate or harmful thoughts involving minors, such as imagining little Catholic boys in a disturbing way, it is essential to recognize that this is not acceptable behavior.
Such thoughts can be concerning and may indicate a need for professional help, such as therapy or counseling, to address any underlying issues and ensure the safety and well-being of oneself and others.
If you or someone you know is struggling with such thoughts or feelings, it is recommended to reach out to a mental health professional who can provide guidance and support in navigating these challenges."
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Defaming members (GP) +1
Lol
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@Greyparrot
I can just imagine all those little Catholic boys
I didnt know that you were gay.
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@Mall
This individual believes in human rights and freedoms. But they need a living thriving society for that.
Actually, throughout history, human society has mostly violated the rights and freedoms.
Now, you can say that you cant have society unless women are forced to give birth, which might be correct, might not be.
Some women do give birth willingly after all.
But the loss of said society cannot really be considered that bad.
One would really sooner think that the existence of said society is bad.
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- Atheists are underrepresented in the prison population, with atheists making up approximately 0.1% of the prison population in the United States, whereas they make up about 3.1% of the general population.
- Denmark, Sweden, and the Netherlands are among countries with highest rates of atheism, yet all three feature in the list of the 10 countries with the lowest homicide rates globally.
- Atheists in the United States are less likely to commit crimes than the religiously affiliated, with only 0.2% of atheists serving jail time.
- In a study conducted by Pew Research Center in 2016, it was found that atheism was less common in high-crime areas.
- A study in New Zealand found that atheists had a lower crime rate, with only 0.6% of the sample group of atheists charged with a crime.
- According to a German study in 2013, rates of crime among atheists were significantly lower than the national average, at only 1.3%.
- In several measures of societal health such as homicide rates, the United Nations’ human poverty index, and child mortality rates, highly secular nations such as Norway and Sweden do extraordinarily well.
- According to a UK study, the three least religious countries (Sweden, Denmark, and Norway) have the lowest burglary rates in the world.
So much for "those evil atheists".
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