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@Stephen
I agree. Hence that silly term of phrase "only a tiny minority".It took just 19 Muslims to bring a city to its knees on the morning of Tuesday, September 11, 2001. The majority were irrelevant.
Both Christians and muslims did lots of crimes, but Christians ended up being way more powerful in military and economy. In fact, for the past 500 years, Christianity had military superiority, and in the last 100 years, Christianity became about million times stronger than Islam.
When muslims attack Christians, it really does nothing to Christianity as a whole. It only makes islam look bad.
But both islam and christianity face same problem. The decline.
People simply no longer want to live by old restrictive rules. Even in muslim countries, many changes are happening. Female genital mutilation is banned almost everywhere now. Women are protesting against face covers, forced marriages and restrictive society.
The islam still has many problems, such as stoning gays, non-believers, and anyone who has sex outside of marriage. Honor killings still happen.
But gradually, muslim societies too will evolve past islam. The change is slowly happening. The islam will disappear eventually, or be reduced to minority in society.
I just wish I was born 500 years later when religions become nothing.
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Okay, I guess I too should present some proof for and against God.
For:
P1. If there was clear proof that God exists, most people would believe in God
P2. Most people believe in God
C. There is clear proof that God exists.
Against:
P1. If there was perfect being, everything would be perfect
P2. Everything is not perfect.
C. There is no perfect being.
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Anyway, I think I derailed this topic enough. Now, back to the actual topic. It will be fun watching Islam vs. Christianity. Of course, I think muslims are a bit outnumbered here on the forum, which is an unfair advantage, but it is what it is.
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@TheUnderdog
Well, you guys kinda exterminated most of them.
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@Tradesecret
It's a philosophical argument. So, it's probably a little bit tough for your brain.
Yes.
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@aql_reason
Like I said if we can't agree on the defintion of Satan, then there is no point in discussing
Well, under your definition of Satan, Satan will screw everyone regardless of their actions, so if your definition turns out to be true God, everyone is equally screwed so nothing matters.
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@aql_reason
Yes, what I was pointing out is your argument is from emotion (i.e fun) which is not used in logical arguments.
Fun is an emotion. Now, you assume that emotions are not used in logical arguments. Thats incorrect. I just used the emotion as a reason for polytheism being good. Of course, you might assume that my argument was about any action or any person, but it was not. It was about me and polytheism.
But getting crushed by a car and then getting reincarnated again to another life is not worse than being eternally than being damned to Hellfire (high risk).
But both are equally possible, so best to work to prevent both, as opposed to just one.
None of those are as high risk as Abrahamic religions. They could also be true. There could be unkown Gods. But that is a limit of us humans. We don't know what is not known
More assumptions. Also, because you dont know what is not known, better play it safer and go with polytheism.
It was the assumption that we made when discussing this argument
It was an assumption that you made, to be precise.
If evil people are good then they are not evil they are bad or worse.
This is irrelevant, as I clearly pointed out that evil rewards evil, which is in itself an evil action. Maybe you mistakenly assumed that evil means absence of reward for evil, which is an absurd assumption.
because you don't believe reason is main arbiter or truth.
I like reason. I just know better than to blindly trust it.
God does not reward actions but intentions. You are not rewarded, my friend.
So Allah would not reward my intention to donate to charity? And this is your assumption?
Like I said if we can't agree on the defintion of Satan, then there is no point in discussing
As I said, possibilities of Gods are endless, but mainly, they belong in these categories:
1. Totally good
2. More good than evil
3. Equally good and evil
4. More evil than good
5. Totally evil.
The balanced life of good and evil basically guarantees rewards in each category.
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@aql_reason
It makes your argument bad. Because you say I do X for fun. So does a serial killer.
My argument has nothing to do with that, as my argument was about me. It wasnt about other people.
Yes, but if that god is God not gods, then you are in trouble
This is an assumption.
No that's not what Pascal wager is about. Most religions like folk and polytheistic have low risk low reward. For example, in Hinduism the worst that can happen if you are bad is you get reincarnated. However, the Abrahamic religions have high risk (hell) high reward (heaven). That's the wager
Thats false. Getting reincarnated as a person who gets slowly crushed by car is rather bad. And if Satan turns out to be true God, you are kinda in trouble for praying to Allah. If Valhalla turns out to be real, you are also in trouble. Even the Greeks and Egyptians had afterlife which kinda meassured how you lived life. Then there is also the spirit world if you follow native americans.
Also, you ignore the fact that pascal's wager only takes into account known Gods.
So yeah, its not just Allah and Jesus you have to fear.
Satan is by definition a deceiver, so he can't be pleased with anyone. He doesn't care where you land, he only cares that he made you land there.
Thats just an assumption made by Jesus and Allah.
Lets assume God is not all good but actually evil (i.e Satan). Absolute Evil is the absence of good.
Even evil people are "good" towards someone. If he is more evil than good or even completely evil, he still might reward me for my evil actions because rewarding evil is evil.
Thats why I prefer the balance.
If Allah or Jesus turns out to be real, I have donated to charity so gotta reward me for that.
If satan turns out to be real, well I masturbated to gay porn and prayed to Qliphoth. That should give me the benefit.
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@aql_reason
Why the effort?
He might appreciate it. Even I like when people praise me.
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@aql_reason
A serial killer would say the same thing.
Well, maybe, but I dont see how does that make me bad.
If those 2 hate each other, how do you accept your prayers to be accepted?
Well, if one of them turns out to be real, he might appreciate that I prayed to him.
But when you make a wager, you have to be smart and choose what results in the least risk.
But we dont know what is the least risk, because our logic could be wrong.
So we play it safer and pray to many Gods.
Pascals wager shows that its better to choose the abrahamic religions.
Well, not really. There are over 3000 revealed Gods. You are not increasing chances by going 1 out of 3000.
50 out of 3000 is mathematically the greater chance of success.
Also, whats important is balance between good and evil. You dont wanna be all good, because if Satan turns out to be real, you did nothing to please him so no happy afterlife for you.
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@aql_reason
But then it means God is evil and deceiving us. Which could be a possibility.
Yes, its possible that Satan is the real God, which is why I pray to satan too.
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@aql_reason
No, and how did it make sense to pray to many different gods? That seems very impractical actually
Its actually fun. Praying to just one God for years gets boring quickly.
I mean, you dont pray to 100 Gods at the same time. Its like, today you choose one God and pray to him/her.
You choose the God and the interpretation of God which is most logical.
Well, that doesnt make any sense. I prefer to have a variety.
And those choices contradict each other.
Thats why you dont pray to 2 Gods at the same time, but go one God per day.
remember you are making a wager with your life i.e Pascals wager
Well, thats why it makes sense to pray to many Gods. If one of them is real, he might like you.
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@aql_reason
It will. And hadith confirms this. That a sign of the end of times, is that Islam will be followed by a handful.
Lets hope so. I just wish it happens in my lifetime. I want to see the fall of islam and christianity.
No God this is part of Gods plan and he is the best of planners
So he says. But maybe Satan is a better planner. We will see.
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@aql_reason
Thank you for responding to the topic. Now, who is more evil? Christians or muslims?
And why cant I be both Christian and muslim? Like, why do I have to pick one of the two? Why not both?
Well, we polytheists are a minority, but I feel like it makes more sense to pray to many Gods to get what you want.
Well, there are plenty of Gods, so it gets confusing which God to pray to.
And do we pick light Gods or dark Gods?
When you are a polytheist, there is just so many choices available.
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@aql_reason
Well, the topic is islam vs christianity.
So, would you tell about why people should believe islam over christianity?
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@Morphinekid77
I don't hate trans and gays. You can love a person and disagree with their lifestyle
Christians do tend to get a little carried away with disagreeing. But it just contributes to decline of Christianity. You know, when you disagree with someone's private life, he disagrees with your private life. It really just moves people away from Christianity.
But this is Christians vs muslims, and I am not even sure if there is currently any muslim in the forum section.
I just wonder if islam will face same decline as Christianity.
Then the Satan's victory would be complete.
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@Morphinekid77
Fine, you are better, but that doesnt mean I like Christians.
Its just that if I had to choose to live in a muslim country or in a Christian country, I would choose a Christian country.
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@n8nrgim
The quaran talks about cutting off heads and hands.
It talks? It commands cutting off hands, to be precise.
It even commands you to hit your wife.
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@Morphinekid77
Well, in my eyes, Christians and muslims are same.
They both believe in one God.
They both say funny things to justify their God's disproportional draconian punishments.
They both hate trans and gay. Well, muslims hate them more, sure.
They both think God is actually there to fullfill their wishes and that God loves only them, while everyone else is punished.
Its just that Christians are kinda less violent in enforcing their faith.
Muslims are a lot more violent.
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@Morphinekid77
My ancestors defeated Islam at the battle of Lepanto and saved Europe from Islam. They did it before we can do it again.
Kinda hard this time, since muslims are already in Europe. But yes, Europe deserves Islam. Well, so does USA. Too bad I wont live for another 1000 years to see the world fall under islam. Oh well.
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@Morphinekid77
Modern Muslims insist the Bible is corrupt, they repeat it like a mantra.
Thats because muslims lack the basic reasoning skills.
The Bible did change over time, and has many versions of it written, but they all say pretty much the same message.
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@YouFound_Lxam
I still dont know why islam isnt banned. I mean, its teachings go against human rights.
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Of course, islam is winning in birth rates, so if Jesus doesnt come in the next 1000 years, Europe will be muslim.
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But here, I am feeling happy, so I will help you out.
Christianity is more technologically advanced and Christians are smarter. So Allah is losing.
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Cool. So which position does a polytheist take?
Both Gods claim to burn you alive for eternity if you worship other Gods.
Its kind of a no-win scenario for a polytheist.
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@Sidewalker
Hey, I hate everyone too.
Except Kim Jong Un. He is perfection.
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@TheUnderdog
As long as the state doesn't treat natives differently than non natives
Well, one could say its a bit too late for that.
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I say Gods, because we cant exactly be sure what is real when it comes to religion.
But most Gods are either:
1. Gods of pleasure
2. Gods of charity
Kinda like Satan and Jesus.
So here is the deal I want to make with these 2 types of Gods.
If my buisness happens to be successful, 10% of profit goes to charity.
So its in Jesus's interest that this buisness succeeds.
Also, if my buisness happens to be successful, I am gonna buy myself expensive things.
So its in Satan's interest too that this buisness succeeds.
Thats the deal, so I hope Gods favor me.
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@TheUnderdog
I don't like the idea of the US subsidizing places that aren't America
I like the idea of US giving money to native Americans.
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"Religion" and "peace" are contradictory terms.
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@Swagnarok
Thats a pretty fine argument. I might even use it if I ever debate in favor of God again.
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Slavery was never abolished anywhere, by the way.
Parents still assume that they own their children, and many countries will forcefully conscript you to fight in war.
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Slavery is legal in China.
Also, white countries still exploit poor countries.
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@TheUnderdog
Eliminate Native Reservations that keep Natives in poverty
I mean, do native Americans want that?
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USA is a country that accepted greatest number of immigrants.
As a result, many people with smart brains moved to USA and contributed to technological development.
As a result, USA became technologically most advanced nation on Earth.
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@FLRW
Although they each told different stories of what had happened
Thats because they saw it from different angles.
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@FLRW
Do you think when he went to prison he said: "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?"
“Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?"
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Recently, I watched news about Christian woman and her trans daughter.
Her trans daughter killed herself.
The Christian woman blamed left wing brainwashing for her daughter's suicide.
Now, as soon as I saw the woman, I noticed she was fat, which indicates bad mindset.
The woman admitted that she didnt support her daughter in being trans, and that she tried to change her.
Then after her daughter committed suicide due to lack of support, the woman blamed left wing brainwashing for what happened.
Maybe the Christian woman didnt understand what she did wrong. She still doesnt.
She destroyed her daughter's dream, and as a result, her daughter killed herself.
Then to avoid blaming herself for her daughter's suicide, she blamed the left wing.
Fat people and Christians often have a habbit of blamimg personal failures on others.
"I am not fat because I choose to eat a lot. I am fat because society forced me to buy unhealthy food".
Yeah, nothing says reasonable mindset like fat Christian woman!
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Greater good can pretty much be used to justify anything.
In muslim countries, they beat you up if you drink alcohol.
They justify it by saying how its better for society if people dont drink alcohol.
Of course, I stand on the side of freedom because I like alcohol and I like freedom.
I like freedom even if its a bit harmful for society.
Individual can choose to do things that harm him. Like that, society too can accept things that harm society a bit.
Thats freedom and democracy. Its self-determination.
Just as individual has a right not to be part of society and right to self-determination, so does society have right to determine what will be allowed and what will not be allowed in the society as long as it affects society. But society can allow harmful things. Its called freedom. Not everything thats harmful needs to be banned, otherwise we would be in a slippery slope where we would ban almost everything from sugar to smoke.
Praise freedom!
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In muslim countries, they beat you up if you drink alcohol.
Its justified by the greater good.
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@Swagnarok
Fair enough. Obviously there wouldn't be GIs pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to keep participating for life even if you decide not to, but I can understand how "it can be hard to leave" something you've been involved with for a long time.
Well, is it voluntary or not? Because if its voluntary, I wont participate, and if its not voluntary, then I cant refuse to participate.
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@blamonkey
People under programmatic civicism are forced into "accountability" groups, life partnerships, and reciprocal-care relations with people not of their choosing.
Great. More government meddling in private lives. I completely overlooked that.
Did you know that any government violation of private lives of citizens can be easily justified by saying its for the greater good?
Example:
Force alcohol addicts into help programs because alcohol contributes to violence and reducing alcohol reduces violence.
Its interesting how greater good leads to totalitarian state.
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@Tradesecret
Did you read the book of Esther?
No, but I am pretty, sure you can quote the evidence from it.
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