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@Speedrace
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Speed, this all-must-vote rule is dumb. If town comes to a consensus and decides to lynch someone, then that person should be lynched. Instead, town has to twiddle their thumbs for 2 days if the lynch target simply decides to not vote.
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@SirAnonymous
First of all, lyncher can joint win.Firstly, Grey is a he. Secondly, while that post was highly suspect, it's impossible for him to be scum. If he is, then it would be impossible for town to win because lynching Grey makes Lunatic win.
Second, Lunatic isn't lyncher he's scum, as I outlined in my bulletproof grey-lunatic gambit theory.
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Grey vs Lunatic is a scum gambit. I'm calling it now. Their whole interaction is total bullshit.
I find it HIGHLY UNLIKELY that Lunatic is unaware of the all-must-vote rule. Why? Because in Oro's L-1 vote he directly mentions the rules: "but the rule is no lynch until everybody votes or Friday night".
Late Lunatic explicitly states that he recounted all the votes before he outed as lyncher. "but I did double check the votes before saying that"
Lunatic would also be fucking livid if he lost because of Speed's dumb voting rules. Yet he remains cordial. That's some BS.
Also Sir's reaction feels unnatural as fuck.
UNVOTE
VTL lunatic
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I would like you to do so now.
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This reaction by Grey is bullshit:
I think it's only logical for town to lynch me now since the only person in the civil war film that can save me just claimed (black panther)So I am just dead weight to the town. Just lynch me, and it will be as good as a vtnl, and you might catch some scum in the lynch train.
If she isn't yakuza she would immediately call BS on Lunatic's claim and push for town to lynch him next DP. She doesn't ever do that. In fact, she says "you got me" instead of immediately going ballistic.
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I'm reading Lunatic's gambit with the fact that mafia would have been very confused in mind.
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I get why Single is fluffing up the DP, but why is oro also fluffing.
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@Greyparrot
I think the best thing for me to do is shutup for the rest of the day so you can get accurate scumreads after my lynch.
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Single reminds me of Yama or possibly jiffypop.
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@ILikePie5
You didn't read my post. I just said that considering all manners of unlikely possibilities for the sake of considering them is anti-town.You’re misconstruing what he’s saying. He’s saying we don’t know the thematic split (now we know one doesn’t exist). The thematic split could have been anything. All he was saying is good vs bad is not necessarily true.
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@SirAnonymous
Now he's saying that it is dumb and scummy to have thought that the theme was anything other than protagonists vs. antagonists. This particular post was right after vtl'ing GP over claiming the antagonist. Why, then, did he ask people to claim whether their character was affiliated with Cap or Iron Man?-->BullishCare to explain?
This is completely ridiculous. Even in the case that the theme was cap vs iron man, which I never discounted by the way, Zemo would still have been anti-town TP thematically, in which case you still have no reason to defend grey.
And one of the implications of that post was to softclaim, to lock down claims to 1 faction and increase the chance of CCs in case scum fake claims in the future.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
This is not about strategy. This is about Sir's behaviour which entails he has insider knowledge that scum is more likely to possess.Okay you two that is enough fluffing the DP with general arguments about strategy.
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@SirAnonymous
What the fuck?Cap vs. Iron Man was highly likely. No theme at all was highly likely. There was no one theme that was far more likely than all the others.
you just said a theme was "highly likely," then directly contradicted yourself by saying no theme was highly likely.
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@SirAnonymous
All of your logic here relies on throwing out every other possibility with no reason to do so.
Or it just means I'm open to other possibilities and don't immediately jump to conclusions based on nothing.
That's the wrong play because you're implying that all possibilities are equally likely, when there is 1 obvious possibility that is far more likely than all the other possibilities. As town is bad to be paralyzed by "all" manners of unlikely possibilities because it distracts you from the most likely possibility and hinders you from hunting scum. It's a common anti-town tactic to distract town by coming up with less likely possibilities and then claiming it's some how illogical to go with the most likely possibility.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
The whole point is that this is a dumb thing to say. It is litterally saying that GP - as scum - claiming his real character under no pressure whatsoever is a reasonable expectation. Just handing that to town on a silver platter. Well you are wrong, that isn't a reasonable expectation. It is an unreasonable one and I am more inclined to think that this is you as scum trying to convince town that GP somehow scum slipped than I am to think that this is you as town making such a blatant error in judgement.
You just ignored my whole rationale to not go past layer 1 WIFOM DP1. Grey claimed a scummy char, I don't care why or what was going through her head, all I care is that she was scummy. Your line of thinking opens up the possibly for scum to blatantly do scummy things and get away with it because you apply WIFOM too early.
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@SirAnonymous
It's the the fact that she claimed, it's WHAT she claimed. I too by far the most reasonable guess of the theme at the time, that is bad = scum, so yes that's exactly why I said it was a scummy claim and the fact you still don't understand that means you had inside info before hand.You're not used to Grey's meta, are you? He always claims in his first few posts. I don't see anything scummy about him claiming. Also, how is it a scummy claim? Because you took a guess at the theme and he claimed a role that will be confirmed at the start of DP3?
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@SirAnonymous
There is a TP it's right in the OP. Because prior to speed revealing there is no thematic split it would have been by far the most reasonable assumption for Zemo to be mafia/TP.Firstly, that was a possibility. I didn't know whether or not it was correct. Secondly, this goes beyond thematic analysis into mind-reading the mod. No, he would not have to be third party. Thirdly, why would you even bring this up after Speed already clarified that there is no thematic split?
And idk if you've been explain this before but in a game of mafia everybody is GUILTY until proven innocent, and someone who's even 40% likely to be scum is more likely than average and thus is a good lynch target. So there would have been no reason for you to defend him unless you had inside knowledge.
Or I could just think that no one possibility was more likely than another, so there was no thematic basis to use to reach conclusions about Grey's character (which is what I thought).
Which is totally unreasonable hence why I FOS you.
There's still an interesting contrast between this game and that one. In DP1 of the MCU Heroes mafia, several players assumed that the villains would be scum, until Speed clarified that there were no villains and no thematic split. Sounds familiar, no?
I just opened up DP1 of that game, speed says right in the OP that there are no villains, there is no theme split, and all the players are heroes. He doesn't say that in the OP of this game. So in fact the absence of immediate clarification would have been evidence to the theory that there IS a thematic split this game.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I admit your FOS on me is some damn good anaylsis. But it's too good for your own good.
Like I said right there in my vote, town shouldn't over think if it can help it. Because what grey claimed was objectively scummy, and if you let scummers do scummy thinks and excuse it for "oh it's just retardation/WIFOM" then you're just letting scum get away with doing scummy things, which hinders actual scum hunting. I don't look past layer one WIFOM unless there is a compelling non-WIFOM reason to do so.
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@SirAnonymous
No, there are any number of possibilities, such as Cap-aligned heroes vs. Iron Man-aligned heroes.
Ok and in this scenario where does that put Zemo? TP at BEST. always lynch TP.
And you had to think that these "other" thematic possibilities are VERY likely in order to just come out and defend Grey like that. There is no reason to believe that UNLESS you have inside knowledge before hand that bad guys could go town/good guys could be scum.
In Speed's earlier game (The MCU Heroes game DD linked), all the characters were heroes.
Yeah that's cause the word "heroes" is literally in the title of the game.
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VTL SirA
Why would you say this:
No, antagonist doesn't have to be scum.
???
This was before speed outed that there is no thematic split. Any sane person would have assumed that bad guys = scum, like the way it is in the vast majority of themed games where there is an obvious good vs evil split.
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Claimed
Greyparrot - Helmut Zemo - Suicidal
Supa - Steve Rogers - Lover with Bucky
Singularity - Bucky - Lover with Steve
Unclaimed
WaterPhoenix
SirAnonymous
Ragnar
Discipulus_Didicit
drafterman
ILikePie5 - "a role"
oromagi
Lunatic
warren42
Bullish - aligns with cap in the movie
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Scum would be more likely to know before hand that there is no thematic split, since they'll consist of a variety of characters with no justification as to why they're scum. I'll reread the DP with that in mind.
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@drafterman
agree completely. The line of thinking supa and single went down is ridiculous.There is nothing saying the game can't, in fact, be [UNbalanced].
It's possible they're doing some insane scum gambit, but for now I'm inclined to think they're town.
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I hate to use mod psych again on an inexperienced mod but grey is semi-confirmed, or else why would speed just come out and say "there's no theme split."
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@Speedrace
THERE IS NO THEME SPLITMy bad
the fuck? ok then
UNVOTE
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Let's claim which side of Captain America: Minor Airport Skirmish you're on.
I am on the side of cap.
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VTL Grey
don't over think. Antagonist = scum.
Let's end the DP in 5 pages or less go go go
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@Speedrace
Just start the DP bruh I will fight all these fuckers I don't care if we know our roles or not.
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@Lunatic
Actually the DP1 mass prez claim could be avoided simply by having 1 more mafia. This way eve if town figured out who all 3 mafia are, they wouldn't be able to lynch them before all the mafia die. Especially since all the town are BP, 6-3 would be a lot more balanced than 7-2 anyway.
The problem is still that the game could end prematurely, and it's almost impossible to reach LyLo. But I suppose it could be a worthy sacrifice once in a while as a novelty game.
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That set up is too swingy. What if the mafia NKs the president on NP1?
Here are some scenarios:
- only 2 bodyguards who knows who the president is (or X bodyguards where X is equal to the number of mislynches minus 1). You could make it so that if both bodyguards guard the president, they both die. No one else except scum know who the prez is.
- 1 bodyguard and the prez is BP. No one else know who the prez is.
- the prez is declared as IC, and everyone is bodyguard, except for scum, who are fake bodyguard.
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That was some meet up yall, really brings me back to the good times.
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@Lunatic
I forgot to mention this but lunatic, you should know
My NP4 results were actually "godfather | VANILLA | doctor," but I lied and said "godfather | HATED TOWNIE | doctor" because I had a strong enough PoE and behaviour read on you that I would have lynched you anyway.
I always appreciate scum who pretend really hard to scum hunt, but I think you dropped a couple of minor scum tells that I was willing to lynch you.
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@drafterman
and what was with that "I'm not getting lynched" BS, I thought you were softclaiming lynchproof or something
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@drafterman
I didn't sign up for ur game because idk what survivor is and this game was too intense for me. Nothing against u
Also u have to realize that I didn't try to lynch u just because of the emoji shit
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How did I save town from mislynches bruh literally every single one of my votes was on town except Lunatic. U sure ur not confusing me with someone else?
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@Vader
Supa you can't go around confirming unique non-standardized roles in public. You gotta be able to find it on at least one of the common sites like Mafiascum, epicmafia, town-of-salem, or drafter's role list before you tell everyone how it works in public. And even then you have to be sure or have a solid precedent of using a role like that.
Modding isn't just about sending out PMs and doing the vote count, it can be tough some times. You just have to think about all the consequences of your actions before you do them.
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@Lunatic
Cut him some slack TUF I just dug up that game where you did the same.
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I was literally "the special needs kid" for most of the game
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Why am I mvp lmao I played like shit until DP3, but even then I played like trash until DP5
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@Lunatic
I'm talking about this: https://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/47262/16#1658876
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@Lunatic
TUF, reminds me of the mod slip you made on DDO about Judas LMAO
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@Vader
How about this,Explaining roles isn't bad modding. I'll explain later
Supa, hypothetically, how would the ENCHANTER role work in one of your mafia games?
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hey yall I hate to take advantage of this twice, but I'm role confirmed.
A COMEDIAN from drafter's role list works like this:
You are the COMEDIAN. Each night you may visit another player. That player will receive a "joke" that contains a lit of three roles and the name of a player that has one of those roles.
If I was fake claiming comedian, I would claim it like that.
But I claimed right off the bat that my role works differently, EXACTLY as supa described in his comment:
A comedian works as followsA ___ , a ______, and a ________ walk into a bar, (user) is one of the thoseThey get the message
Combined with the fact that I claimed EVEN night right off the bat with an EVEN night scum RB, I'm as good as confirmed.
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