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@Skipper_Sr
No, the owner is named Mike. His account literally has the username DebateArt I believe.
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@sadolite
The problem isn't funding, the problem is that the sole owner has basically gone AWOL
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@fauxlaw
He said that he would renew, but that doesn't mean he lived up to his word, and the evidence is that he did not. You can look up the domain on ICANN yourself. It has not been renewed and is set to expire in less than a day.
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@fauxlaw
Did you not see the latest announcement?
Unless a miracle happens and Mike renews this website domain, the domain for this website expires at 1450 UTC (a little more than 12 hours from now).
One of the mods wrote that, not me
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@Swagnarok
Now there's effectively two alternative platforms. We'll see how long they can last.
Two? I presume one of the ones you're talking about is DebateCraft, what's the other?
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Well, it seems as though the domain registration for this site is set to expire in less than 12 hours. Not much time is left before the site shuts down again, perhaps permanently this time. Use this thread to say a little goodbye while there's still time.
Goodbye, DebateArt. I wish I would have found you much sooner. Still, I'm glad I found you when I did. There truly is no other place quite like you on the internet (I looked). May DebateCraft rise from your ashes and soar even higher. 🫡
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@Skipper_Sr
It’s actually pretty funny what ChatGPT had to say about DebateArt
What did it say?
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@Cerulean
I'm done playing defense for today.
See, this is the thing I really don't like about your behavior today. You haven't actually been posting all that much all things considered, yet you act like you have been "spamming the DP". It runs me the wrong way.
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@ILikePie5
Obviously waiting for REF to full claim, but after rereading the claims list, I dislike Whiteflame’s justification. Where’s the Compulsive Aspect? And why Owl specifically? Aren’t there a million other things that just walk around every where?
Compulsive isn't really explained, but the Visitor part makes enough sense to me, and Visitor is almost always Compulsive in practice, as a non-compulsive visitor is literally pointless. The justification may not be amazing, but I feel like we tend to focus on that aspect too much. Unless a justification is really weak, I think it should have relatively little weight when it comes to our reads.
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@Mikal
After this dp we will see if someone dies of poison but even if they did it could be tv.
It couldn't, though. Mharman said that if someone was poisoned, it would be announced at the beginning of the day. Weren't you the one who asked?
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@Mikal
What’s the downside of it for him?
It only makes him look suspicious here. Even if he can successfully deflect that suspicion onto Ultra instead, it only makes him look worse on the following DP, unless this is a bus. I don't think it is, though. Ultra's behavior feels genuine to me, especially the way he voted for Luna, then suddenly unvoted him.
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@whiteflame
And even that is unclear since we don't know the order of operations. It's possible that a town Poisoner's role doesn't take effect because the NK happens first, which means it wouldn't necessarily be an action they could blame Irontoaster
I asked Mharman and he told me both actions would be executed simultaneously, so that's not the issue here. Curious why you didn't ask him yourself.
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Luna claiming Vanilla is a bit sus. His stated motivations do make sense to me however
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I just thought of an interesting question. Who here would be bold enough to try and NK Toaster after his claim?
So, the reason I asked this question earlier is because I was suddenly reminded of ERB Mafia, a game which I modded. Pie was the Even-Night PGO, but claimed to be an unflavored PGO. However, the scum team killed him anyway. I remember Pie being absolutely shocked that the scum team would be so bold as to attempt to claim the claimed PGO, and he immediately deduced that Luna had to be scum, as Pie thought he would be the only one who would actually be willing to take such a risk. In fact, it was actually Whiteflame who came up with the idea (he thought Pie was lying about his role), but Luna was his partner and agreed with the plan.
I thought that that sort of analysis might be useful here as well, but on second thought, I'm a little less sure. For one thing, losing a teammate DP1 is usually devastating. You typically have to be willing to make risky plays if you still want to win in such a gamestate. For another, as WF brought out (and I think it's a good point), killing Toaster would have been a big risk, but so would leaving the Cop alive. I think having lost a partner so soon probably would have increased the risk tolerance of any conservative players on the scum team, and maybe trying to NK Toaster wouldn't have seemed like such a bad strategy.
Also, it's important to keep in mind that Vader is still on the team. I mean he's dead now, but presumably can still communicate in the Discord. I think a long-time player like him would have been likely to figure out what sort of gambit Toaster was playing. If so, that doesn't really tell us anything
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@WyIted
If you want me to vote ceru than explain why . Explain to me like I am both an idiot and a person who can not quite keep up with the game and who is completely lost and unsure of what is happening
He's claimed Poison Healer, but no one was poisoned and no one can explain why a scum Poisoner would have failed. Banana would seem to be some form of a protective role, possibly a doctor based on her claim (yes, openly speculating is anti-town but it's pretty obvious and I'm not the first one to say it anyway), which is an odd way to balance this game if scum can't NK and poison on the same night. It's a lot of town protective power compared to scum killing power. I don't see scum skipping out on poisoning someone last night if they had the option. Behaviorally, there's also the fact that he's mostly been playing in the background, weighed in very little on the Vader lynch except to defend him (I don't remember whether he was on the wagon or not, I'll have to check), and just hasn't been doing much to move this game forward imo.
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Gonna be honest, I don't buy the Luna bus theory right now. DP1 busses are rare, and I don't think Luna would have tried to deflect the early wagon that was forming around him onto his partner.
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@Mikal
I feel like ultra is claiming messenger or friendly neighbor. But if that’s the case why is no one saying they can confirm his action? Even if mafia Poe targeted him would they redirect or move his action to themselves. It doesn’t make sense.
Yeah, it's very weird and I don't know what to make of it. But I also don't think that Luna would likely lie about not receiving whatever it was that he was supposed to receive as scum. What's the upside for him?
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@Mikal
But more than that, ima just say it because it’s not outing anything that scum don’t know at this point. Ana basically hard claimed doctor or bp and it’s because she doesn’t game, that she would not see how her character ties to that.I think Anna is town so the next question is do we need a doctor and a healer? That means mafia would have 2 nks. You would not put a healer to counter balance 1nk that positions. That doesn’t make sense. It would have to be consistent or a few x poisons and I don’t think that role would exist to counter just tv.
This is a really interesting point. I actually think that balance analysis is one of the strongest tools the town has in closed setup games. Having both a Healer and what Banana likely is doesn't make much sense to me unless the Mafia can poison and NK during the same night. Given that this obviously didn't happen and no one can explain why, (I thought my role would explain it but it doesn't,) it doesn't look good for Ceru.
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Going to need it clarified what happened before I start sussing this. I’m unclear what Ultra meant by this and even less clear what that would mean for Luna in terms of what he should know about said visit.
There's a few different roles that Ultra could be hinting at here. I think I know roughly what kind of role he is. I will say that it is possible that he is being guided in what to say by his partner. It's a little tough to read him based on how little he's been posting, but what little is there does give me towny vibes, and it would still be a risk to claim something confirmable like that.
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@ILikePie5
I think we leave Ceru alive for now. Tomorrow if there’s not a message then it’s even more suspicious.
I don't really see the benefit here. Like I said, assuming Ceru is town, it's highly unlikely that the scum team poisons somebody tonight. Otherwise, Cerulean could easily confirm his role, which just hurts the scum team even worse. Only way someone gets poisoned tonight is if Ceru himself is the NK. Letting Ceru live isn't informative here like it would be for a claimed DP3 Innocent Child, for instance.
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Sorry for being inactive, been busy today. Give me a moment to catch up
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@ILikePie5
I buy Banana’s character claim. And it’s sort of tied to Ceru’s and Casey’s as well
In what way? I don't see how our claims are tied. Though I've also never played Terraria before.
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@Ultracrepidarian
Wylted would definitely be bold enough for a move like that. Not sure about everyone else
I can see that. My personal thoughts are:
- Wylted
- Pie
- Lunatic
- Whiteflame (he did it in ERB Mafia)
- Maybe Mikal as well
The thing is that I have a strong townread on everyone in that list except WF
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I just thought of an interesting question. Who here would be bold enough to try and NK Toaster after his claim?
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@Cerulean
You know what, I can buy that there's a scum JOAT. A Town JOAT usually implies a scum one, and we know for a fact that irontoaster was the Town JOAT. The trouble is that even if there is a scum Poisoner, I doubt they'll use it tonight, as it would just confirm you, and the last thing the scum team would want right now is more town confirmation.
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Interesting statement from Ultra. Definitely hints at a specific kind of role, though it's odd that Luna doesn't back that up.
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@WyIted
I told you guys about this before. This is a scum mental trait where it's tempting to think the town lucked into everything. I wasn't confident in the lynch myself but notice how I just stated that I was wrong. I don't need that cope because I am town.Anna shouldn't be pussy about Vader being lynched if she's town just lynch
I don't think this is a scumtell coming from Banana specifically. It's consistent with her personality. She tends to be very strongly opinionated and isn't swayed easily.
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@Lunatic
Not noticing that irontoaster was a poisoner seems like a genuine townslip.
Wdym not noticing?
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@Lunatic
This really feels like you are shifting the blame from your own actions onto mikal lol. But I think you are town here so I'll let it go.
I'm not trying to shift the blame, I'm just saying that Pie is overstating my role in the formation of the WF wagon. Both Mikal and Banana were pushing him harder than I was. I will admit, however, that in retrospect, Vader was the better wagon.
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I'm going to reiterate what I said in the Endgame thread of the previous game.
For me, the hard pushing from you [Banana] was more reminiscent of your scum games than your town games, but now, I think that might just be because you were generally more active and involved in your scum games. That might be the real scumtell.
I stand by this statement. It's weird, but I think that Banana's true scumtell is sort of the inverse of what you'd expect from most players - she's actually more active as scum than as town. If you go back and look at both of her scum games so far (Bo Burnham and Game Shows, coincidentally both Luna games) and compare them to her town games, you can tell that Banana tends to get much more invested in this game when she's scum than when she's town.
That's relevant here because her play so far strikes me as being profoundly lazy. She was low activity for all of DP1, missed a majority of posts, and didn't even really try to get caught up. Is this lazy? Sure. Anti-town, even? Arguably so. Do I think she's scum for it? No. Rather, her voting for WF is entirely consistent with her behavior this game, as she had considered Mikal and I townreads, and we were both on WF's wagon. It's not surprising to me that she'd hop on as well. #80 and #82 also feel very genuine to me, personally. So yeah, I think she's probably town in this game.
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I actually think Banana is probably town here. I'll expand on my reasoning during my break.
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@Mikal
But you went a step further and say the justification for his claim is because you think mafia or someone likely had another poison ability.It’s almost like knowledge that should not be there. I did not even consider a second poison role exists which is why I didn’t buy the claim
Cerulean himself did say that he was assuming that was the case. I've been going back and forth in my mind in regards to Cerulean. I could believe that there is a scum poisoner as well as a town one. But you don't see that too often here; it's more common on MU to my knowledge.
Also, I do agree with the other reasons to sus Ceru specifically, and I don't like how he never responded to my own post calling out his inconsistent behavior. I don't see REF as sus for that post however, though there is one thing from him in DP1 that bothers me a little. I'll expand on that in a bit.
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@Cerulean
I asked explicitly. Poisons work like MU: They are announced at Day start and take effect at Day end of not cured.
Fair enough. In that case, I will claim, as I believe I may have prevented someone from being poisoned. I am the Spear, a basic weapon which is useful for having high knockback, which helps keep enemies away from the player. Therefore, I am the Asceticizer. I can target players to make them immune to all non-lethal night actions. Last night I targeted Pie. After Vader's flip, I figured he was likely innocent and thought he might have been the target of mafia interference. Seems like I chose well.
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@ILikePie5
Ya but you were super hesitant on Supa the entire time. And you were talking about other people.
What other people was I talking about? The only person I openly scumread was you, but I didn't try to start a wagon, on you or anyone else. I only hopped on the WF wagon at the end after Mikal started it.
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@Cerulean
The fact that nobody is poisoned suggests to me that the person who tried to do it was blocked or otherwise unsuccessful.
How do we know that no one has been poisoned? Would that necessarily be revealed before the end of the day?
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@Mikal
To clarify just because Vader slipped doesn’t clear wf. Wf can still be scum but if that wasn’t a mid given fake claim for super I think ceru is prob the one that made it.
I can see Ceru being scum. One thing I noticed about him already is a weird inconsistency in his play between today and yesterday. Look at #764 from DP1:
I really appreciate the fact that we've already outed several useless roles that will now proceed to never get nightkilled. Truly stellar gameplay we have going on here.
Clearly against giving out claims liberally. This even matches up with him as a mod - the one game he modded on here had Anticlaim, a mechanic which punishes character/role claiming. But then, at the beginning of this DP, REF argues against forcing out even more claims, which Cerulean apparently seems to think we actually should do all of a sudden.
We already have several scummy claims out there. Have we lynched anyone based on that?Who? Which remaining claim exactly are you calling scummy?Vader was lynched because his was the worst.
Feels like a weird inconsistency to me.
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@ILikePie5
Casey was backing Vader the entire DP. And then also helped start the WF wagon.
Yeah, I was wrong about Vader. It happens. Everyone is wrong sometimes. But I wasn't the one who put momentum behind the WF wagon. Mikal was the one who was pushing WF hard. You can look back at my progression during DP1. I outright said that I didn't really have any better alternative lynches. It was Mikal that offered WF as an alternative. What would be the point of me trying to defend Vader as scum without really trying to move the lynch in a different direction? All that would do is make me look sus when Vader inevitably flipped scum.
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@Cerulean
Also, I have a reason to believe that an evil player was roleblocked last Night. If someone wants to claim that, they're free to do so and I can elaborate. Not 100% necessary, we're not in a bad position right now, but I just want to put that on the table.
Interesting. I may or may not be the one responsible for that.
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Screw it.
VTL Whiteflame
He's a nullread for me and I prefer this wagon to Luna or Vader. Let's see where this goes.
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@Mikal
I’m also fine with a vtnl or no lynch on even.
I guess it's not the worst idea, but I'd far prefer a lynch today. PoE is the town's best friend after all, and with so many players, it's hard to use effectively. I want us to get info from flips.
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@Mikal
Actually, it was Game Shows Mafia. Though I guess I can understand why you wouldn't be thinking of that one, since you were scum.
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@Mikal
He says he does the non commital shit and town as scum but everytime he’s did it that I recall it’s as scum. It’s like half assing reads and sayinf maybe this and maybe that without ever really locking in on anything. It always bothers me and it’s possible he does it as town but the entire post he made about supa. I’d have to find. Just really read wrong to me
Meh, I remember a recent-ish game where I sussed him for being non-committal with his reads and I'm pretty sure he ended up being town. I struggle to remember exactly which game that was, however.
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@Mikal
His behavior is also bad. Go back and ISO him.
Anything in particular stand out to you?
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